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Drama [Jeff Grubb - VentureBeat] PlayStation boss Jim Ryan needs to create a better narrative

JaksGhost

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Like Grubb it's been 6 fucking months. Lets wait another 6 months to make it a full year before we start this. It's also funny to see him list Resogun seeing how that partnership led to Sony funding and publishing what will be Housemarque's biggest game to date, Returnal.
 
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Mercenary09

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His updated story is even more of a shitshow. Now he's saying "Sony launched a ton of indie games on PS+ in the first year of the PS4 but on the PS5 they've only done Oddworld, Maquette, and Bugsnax so they aren't pushing them as hard." FIrst off Jeff, you left off Worms Rumble. Second, I didn't realize the PS5's first year was over yet. Huh time sure does fly. The guy is a fucking moron that no one should be giving attention to.
 

Papacheeks

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He makes a good point though:


Some of the "biggest" games around the PS4 launch were indies that Sony helped.

Correct, and how many games by Housemarque who made resogun did sony promote? Literally all of them, and now Housemarque is about to release their first semi AA-AAA game called Returnal. Do you see how this narrative is literally BS?

Sony literally helped a lot of those indies. Like the guys who made Octodad debuted on Sony's stage, and were a launch title for PS4 in PS+. Guess what their latest game was? Bugsnax and guess what it launched with the system on PS+ for PS5.

Sony literally has been making Indie developers bigger, obviously not everything is a success story. Nintendo is doing what Sony did for almost 2 gens. Sony helped a lot of indie developers find a platform and a voice. Now those studios have grown and are doing larger projects. ANd those are the ones Sony are signing now.

Thats how this industry grows with developers. You start with a small game, hope it grows enough of a audience then grow the next project. Grubb literally doesnt understand nor wants to see that most of the indie developers that Sony now show cases are some of the same ones who's games were those small projects back on PS4.

It's fucking ridiculous, click bait article. He makes some good points in his video, but it's like its far removed from what is happening. The only thing he's carrying on about is how people percieve jim ryan. And on that note he's right. But then again, does that even matter when people are getting what they want?

I think Reggie as great as he was, came off as super fake most of the time. And he was a PR guy from Pizza hut.
 

Papacheeks

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Grubb already having to edit his awful article. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Shows you how he didn't research anything which then tells me he doesn't pay attention to Playstation or it's ecosystem. He just grabbed on to literally the Bloomberg article and what a couple other youtubers, and David Jaffe/Jeff Ross internview brought up like comparing Jim Ryan to shawn layden.


Like in about a couple months if people are literally not happy with Sony's output of AA,AAA and indie then I guess go write an article? But honestly even Jeff Ross said that he thinks Sony is being smart by not saying anything. ANd who knows if Sony get's someone to do PR for them, and you hear less from Jim as he does his job in the back.
 
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KingT731

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Alright

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He's back tracking like crazy lol.

Bet bloomberg told him to go and clear the record lol.
Bloomberg? They started all of this based on very, very little, then sent the message to their underlings, knowing most shills/trolls/clickbaiters would run with it

Schreieieieier and Jeff Scrub are only back peddling because they were caught out and they're doing damage control. If they hadn't been caught out, no way would they be doing it, they'd be feeding the fire for more clicks.

Games journalists are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike
 

IntentionalPun

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He's back tracking like crazy lol.

Bet bloomberg told him to go and clear the record lol.
What is he back tracking on?

I'm not a huge fan of the guy.. but the article wasn't saying anything as dramatic as it was being spread as.

It's mostly about 1 unhappy group who wanted to make the TLOU remake but got the project handed back to ND by Sony execs. That's the majority of the article.
 
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Papacheeks

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Bloomberg? They started all of this based on very, very little, then sent the message to their underlings, knowing most shills/trolls/clickbaiters would run with it

Schreieieieier and Jeff Scrub are only back peddling because they were caught out and they're doing damage control. If they hadn't been caught out, no way would they be doing it, they'd be feeding the fire for more clicks.

Games journalists are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike

No, the information was in a way confirmed to be right by Jeff Ross who was creative directer/lead on Days gone. I think its more of Jason for legality reasons left a lot of Nuance information that actually turns the article into not a pitch for change in video games. Which is Jason's MO, he thinks as it is Games need to change in how developers are treated. I dont disagree with him, but he talks in almost absolutes in his articles, then when someone like Cory Barlog, or Neil, or Jaffe call him out because of their knowledge of leading/working in the trenches on projects. He doables down, or disregards what they themselves are trying to add.

Like not everyone complains when making video games or working long ass hours. And I get that some publishers and stuidios sometimes exploit people working long hours. But in the entertainment business it's a beast, and a well paced, well shceduled project can turn to shit real quick and then people have to be all hands on deck to fix it.

Jason lacks perspective, all he has is the perspective of people who are working alot at specific positions within companies. Most of them low, to mid tier. i have yet have seen him give information that came from the top, like a creative director. And most creative directors are people who moved up the rankls from previous positions. Like cory was a lead animator for god of war 1/2. Guy looked like he never slept. He left games for a while as I think he got burned out a bit. Then came back as creative director and helped knock it out of the park. ANd that would be because of his knowledge of project inter workings and managment.

Not saying jason doesnt do good reporting when companies are being shitty, or if people are in unfair environments. But a lot of this stuff he could get a different perspective, like a one on one with Cory or David Jaffe. But he would rather play politics and call Jaffe a bigot or something since Jaffe is banned from Resetera. Like honestly Jason needs to interview indie developers. Some of them came from AAA, and have stories that are probably not good about crunch. But I bet you even for indie crunch still happens, it's just more on their own schedule.

What is he back tracking on?

I'm not a huge fan of the guy.. but the article wasn't saying anything as dramatic as it was being spread as.

The info was 100 correct, but the nuance and context is what was left out for the sake of almost pushing a narrative at the state of big gaming companies and how they run their studios. Which is Jason's MO in most of his articles lately. ANd like Jaffe even ross hinted at, sometimes you dont get all the context from the outside looking in, or from talking to people not privy to info that managers have like Garvin/Ross.
 
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Alright

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No, the information was in a way confirmed to be right by Jeff Ross who was creative directer/lead on Days gone. I think its more of Jason for legality reasons left a lot of Nuance information that actually turns the article into not a pitch for change in video games. Which is Jason's MO, he thinks as it is Games need to change in how developers are treated. I dont disagree with him, but he talks in almost absolutes in his articles, then when someone like Cory Barlog, or Neil, or Jaffe call him out because of their knowledge of leading/working in the trenches on projects. He doables down, or disregards what they themselves are trying to add.

Like not everyone complains when making video games or working long ass hours. And I get that some publishers and stuidios sometimes exploit people working long hours. But in the entertainment business it's a beast, and a well paced, well shceduled project can turn to shit real quick and then people have to be all hands on deck to fix it.

Jason lacks perspective, all he has is the perspective of people who are working alot at specific positions within companies. Most of them low, to mid tier. i have yet have seen him give information that came from the top, like a creative director. And most creative directors are people who moved up the rankls from previous positions. Like cory was a lead animator for god of war 1/2. Guy looked like he never slept. He left games for a while as I think he got burned out a bit. Then came back as creative director and helped knock it out of the park. ANd that would be because of his knowledge of project inter workings and managment.

Not saying jason doesnt do good reporting when companies are being shitty, or if people are in unfair environments. But a lot of this stuff he could get a different perspective, like a one on one with Cory or David Jaffe. But he would rather play politics and call Jaffe a bigot or something since Jaffe is banned from Resetera. Like honestly Jason needs to interview indie developers. Some of them came from AAA, and have stories that are probably not good about crunch. But I bet you even for indie crunch still happens, it's just more on their own schedule.
My bad, i thought we were talking about the rest of the arse that has been peddled.

I don't watch videos or listen to any personality on the internet. It's very strange to me.

Schrier is whatever the games industry of paid opposition is. He 'seems' to be on the side of 'gamers' but he's usually whoring himself out to the highest bidder to push an angle. He's not the only one though
 

Heisenberg007

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What is he back tracking on?

I'm not a huge fan of the guy.. but the article wasn't saying anything as dramatic as it was being spread as.

It's mostly about 1 unhappy group who wanted to make the TLOU remake but got the project handed back to ND by Sony execs. That's the majority of the article.
Even that wasn't a negative point. That group (perhaps because they didn't have much experience with game development) had their timeline and financial projections all wrong.

They exceeded the initial budget forecast. Herman inquired why the budget was significantly higher than other remakes of similar scopes, and they couldn't give him a satisfactory answer. This will be for PS5 and using new technologies wasn't a good enough answer, as Demon's Souls was also being remade, and Sony was happy with that budget forecast.

They were literally costing extra money for the remake because they didn't have enough experience. So Sony shifted that project to a more experienced team (Naughty Dog) who are now apparently doing it in the right budget bracket.
 

IntentionalPun

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Even that wasn't a negative point. That group (perhaps because they didn't have much experience with game development) had their timeline and financial projections all wrong.

They exceeded the initial budget forecast. Herman inquired why the budget was significantly higher than other remakes of similar scopes, and they couldn't give him a satisfactory answer. This will be for PS5 and using new technologies wasn't a good enough answer, as Demon's Souls was also being remade, and Sony was happy with that budget forecast.

They were literally costing extra money for the remake because they didn't have enough experience. So Sony shifted that project to a more experienced team (Naughty Dog) who are now apparently doing it in the right budget bracket.
Right; the article mentions that it was a much higher budget than other remakes.

The team involved wasn't happy though.. not given a chance for independence they wanted, people left, etc.

Whether that money-driven decision was the right one is a matter of opinion of course, and the article even touches on why it makes sense for Sony.

The article itself is really not that bad.. it just describes a couple of scenarios where Sony execs didn't greenlight stuff or changed things.. why anyone would be surprised is the real question. Sony has a group of execs who approve/turn down any given project.. monitor them.. request changes, etc. They have never been the "you are free to create whatever and here's your giant budget!" company.
 
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Heisenberg007

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Right; the article mentions that it was a much higher budget than other remakes.

The team involved wasn't happy though.. not given a chance for independence they wanted, people left, etc.

Whether that money-driven decision was the right one is a matter of opinion of course, and the article even touches on why it makes sense for Sony.

The article itself is really not that bad.. it just describes a couple of scenarios where Sony execs didn't greenlight stuff or changed things.. why anyone would be surprised is the real question. Sony has a group of execs who approve/turn down any given project.. monitor them.. request changes, etc. They have never been the "you are free to create whatever and here's your giant budget!" company.
I blame the tone of the article for that. Jason heavily implied that it was Sony's fault for not sticking with that team.

But from Sony's perspective, they hired that team for supporting other studios. But then there was a group of developers who wanted more -- who wanted to make their own games and not just stay as support staff (fair enough!). But then the project they pitched was costing significantly more than other projects of similar nature. Sony gave them a chance to progress beyond the support staff but they couldn't justify it. So Sony asked them to continue working at their original job.

From Sony's perspective, it makes 100% sense.
 

IntentionalPun

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I blame the tone of the article for that. Jason heavily implied that it was Sony's fault for not sticking with that team.

But from Sony's perspective, they hired that team for supporting other studios. But then there was a group of developers who wanted more -- who wanted to make their own games and not just stay as support staff (fair enough!). But then the project they pitched was costing significantly more than other projects of similar nature. Sony gave them a chance to progress beyond the support staff but they couldn't justify it. So Sony asked them to continue working at their original job.

From Sony's perspective, it makes 100% sense.
Yeah it's an interesting story, not really surprising in any way, and not entirely negative in any direction.

The people left because they wanted to work on a team that created their own game; which is totally fair.. Sony moved their project out from under them because they weren't producing within expected budgets. Also fair.

Sony has outright stated their strategy is to focus on big blockbuster games, and they've talked about how expensive it all is, and how they can't just take any risk they want. It's clear that "remakes" are part of their strategy as well, and it would only make sense as a strategy if they are designed to be cheaper than the big blockbusters.

That strategy of being risk averse can upset some creatives.. that's just the world of making videogames. But Sony is producing top notch games with huge fanbases and selling tons of product using this strategy.. whether it upsets some creatives or not, isn't stopping that.

MS giving out blank checks sounds like a rosier picture to some.. but TBH, creatives given a blank check won't necessarily create something better than creatives reigned in by a company that knows what they are doing. Honestly, quite the opposite can happen.
 

Dabaus

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Yeah it's an interesting story, not really surprising in any way, and not entirely negative in any direction.

The people left because they wanted to work on a team that created their own game; which is totally fair.. Sony moved their project out from under them because they weren't producing within expected budgets. Also fair.

Sony has outright stated their strategy is to focus on big blockbuster games, and they've talked about how expensive it all is, and how they can't just take any risk they want. It's clear that "remakes" are part of their strategy as well, and it would only make sense as a strategy if they are designed to be cheaper than the big blockbusters.

That strategy of being risk averse can upset some creatives.. that's just the world of making videogames. But Sony is producing top notch games with huge fanbases and selling tons of product using this strategy.. whether it upsets some creatives or not, isn't stopping that.

MS giving out blank checks sounds like a rosier picture to some.. but TBH, creatives given a blank check won't necessarily create something better than creatives reigned in by a company that knows what they are doing. Honestly, quite the opposite can happen.
Death Stranding.
 
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... this is in no way related to Cancel Culture. What a terrible opinion. If people can't openly complain about losing access to stuff they've already paid for then just what the hell can they complain about?

Sony has created this narrative themselves. Closing stores to cut costs... while boasting about record hardware sales and gaming profits. They get no sympathy from me here. Imagine if Steam said "games before 2012 can no longer be bought, patched, or downloaded". There'd be blood in the streets. Right now, I can buy 2001's Fuzion Frenzy for Xbox on Microsoft's store, but I can't buy 2013's TLOU for PS3 from Sony's. There's something wrong that. This article and these types of opinions are just the symptom of that problem.
Because Microsoft uses them all for their investors. Why would they remove xbox 360 store when they are net even? Probably profitable bc they charge to play online. Also they can add millions in “xbox network users”. Sony in the other hand wants its users to move on to new hardware becuse they dont charge to play online on those legacy playstation consoles.
 

IntentionalPun

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... this is in no way related to Cancel Culture. What a terrible opinion. If people can't openly complain about losing access to stuff they've already paid for then just what the hell can they complain about?

Sony has created this narrative themselves. Closing stores to cut costs... while boasting about record hardware sales and gaming profits. They get no sympathy from me here. Imagine if Steam said "games before 2012 can no longer be bought, patched, or downloaded". There'd be blood in the streets. Right now, I can buy 2001's Fuzion Frenzy for Xbox on Microsoft's store, but I can't buy 2013's TLOU for PS3 from Sony's. There's something wrong that. This article and these types of opinions are just the symptom of that problem.
Where are you getting that Sony is killing off downloading for PS3?

It's just the ability to buy that's being removed, not downloading.
 
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farmerboy

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This about the only thread whose premise I've agreed with. Its finally clicked for me that if Sony and Ryan have a problem, it's a marketing one.

In the absence of something to talk about, everyone's deviated to highlighting any negative point. For Christ's sake, even changing button O gets a mention.

And mind you, it's not really a problem. Except these social media conditioned whinging pricks, called millennials, need Sony to tell em they love them on a daily basis.

Just put out the Ragnarok trailer and everyone will calm down.
 

IntentionalPun

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This about the only thread whose premise I've agreed with. Its finally clicked for me that if Sony and Ryan have a problem, it's a marketing one.

In the absence of something to talk about, everyone's deviated to highlighting any negative point. For Christ's sake, even changing button O gets a mention.

And mind you, it's not really a problem. Except these social media conditioned whinging pricks, called millennials, need Sony to tell em they love them on a daily basis.

Just put out the Ragnarok trailer and everyone will calm down.
Honestly kind of agree, despite some of the details being off on this article.. Sony does currently have a marketing issue w/ the hardcore gaming crowd. That's the reality; negative articles are being written... MS fanboys are jumping for joy at the negativity, and many Sony fans are also not happy.

Does it REALLLY matter though? I have my doubts... like you said, Sony releases footage of one of their big upcoming games and nobody will care about these details.. I highly doubt their sales will be effected by a little bit of negativity from the "gaming journalist and forum goer" crowd when Sony's products are still kicking ass.

But they could do something about it; give gamers a bit of a rub and tug here or there, while behind the scenes continuing to focus on profit like they always have..for whatever reason gamers seem to need some fake-ass-"gamer" executive to make them feel good, it's rather hilarious.
 
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bitbydeath

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It's a good thing that's not going to happen with Game Pass then, right? If you think the next Elder Scrolls/Doom/Fallout/Halo/Gears/Forza, or games like Fable/Perfect Dark/Avowed etc. are going to all of a sudden become much smaller and poorly made games just because they also happen to appear on Game Pass, then I don't know what to tell you, and it's incredibly obvious you have a clear bias either against Xbox or against subscription services (or both).
You should wait and see what changes are made first. Halo Infinite for example is a live service game which won’t see a sequel for ten years.

 

farmerboy

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Honestly kind of agree, despite some of the details being off on this article.. Sony does currently have a marketing issue w/ the hardcore gaming crowd. That's the reality; negative articles are being written... MS fanboys are jumping for joy at the negativity, and many Sony fans are also not happy.

Does it REALLLY matter though? I have my doubts... like you said, Sony releases footage of one of their big upcoming games and nobody will care about these details.. I highly doubt their sales will be effected by a little bit of negativity from the "gaming journalist and forum goer" crowd when Sony's products are still kicking ass.

But they could do something about it; give gamers a bit of a rub and tug here or there, while behind the scenes continuing to focus on profit like they always have..for whatever reason gamers seem to need some fake-ass-"gamer" executive to make them feel good, it's rather hilarious.
Agreed. Mind you, MS rapid growth and Gamepass are something to talk about (and no doubt Sony is) but any meaningful discussion is drowned out by fanboy drivel.
 

recursive

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... this is in no way related to Cancel Culture. What a terrible opinion. If people can't openly complain about losing access to stuff they've already paid for then just what the hell can they complain about?

Sony has created this narrative themselves. Closing stores to cut costs... while boasting about record hardware sales and gaming profits. They get no sympathy from me here. Imagine if Steam said "games before 2012 can no longer be bought, patched, or downloaded". There'd be blood in the streets. Right now, I can buy 2001's Fuzion Frenzy for Xbox on Microsoft's store, but I can't buy 2013's TLOU for PS3 from Sony's. There's something wrong that. This article and these types of opinions are just the symptom of that problem.
Is it confirmed you will not have access to the games you already purchased?