Jeremy Soule, composer of Elder Scrolls soundtrack, has been accused of rape by Nathalie Lawhead

Thabass

Formerly 'Jasbasse'
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Before I never wanted to talk about this, but now #metoo has given me the confidence to speak up about my sexual harassment at the hands of Neogaf user R Rhysser last sunday. He sent me horrid, sexually aggressive messages demanding I send nudes, and verbally abusing me when I refused to do so.



This whole ordeal has made me incredibly emotionally distraught, so you should support me by donating to my kickfundme page.
Cock and balls? Meatspin? What, exactly, are you looking this shit up for, my friend?
 
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Rhysser

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Jun 22, 2013
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It is when they go up to the mob (and no one else) and yell “hey, this guy’s a rapist!”

She knows full well what’s going to happen as a result of that twitter thread, and it is grossly irresponsible for you to attempt to absolve her of responsibility for that.
This is only a problem when the allegation is false which itself is rare, and rape victims are not responsible for the actions of people who make false allegations.
 
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Saruhashi

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This is only a problem when the allegation is false which itself is rare, and rape victims are not responsible for the actions of people who make false allegations.
How do you know the difference?

The way I see it there can really be only two worldviews here.

One - If a few innocent dudes go down then that's OK, it's for the greater good.
Two - It's unacceptable for any innocent person to go down for a crime they did not commit.

I suppose you could be between the two in a sense that you could think if we have one innocent dude per 1000 guilty then that's ok but say 500 innocent for every 500 guilty then that's where the line is drawn. I guess it would come down to personal preference.

Then you have side issues such as if there is no negative consequence for a false accusation then the instances of false accusations ought to increase since people with bad intentions will see an easy avenue of attack on a person they dislike.

I have always found that people will abandon "listen and believe" quickly once they are falsely accused or someone close to them is falsely accused.

The problem is, how do you know the difference?
 

GymWolf

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And to the complete surprise of nobody, "She can't remember". Which was entirely predictable when the whole story was "He was creepy to me over dinner" *Scene missing* "He raped me". That's it. Team #Metoo gaming edition know she would not stand up to any cross examination so they sent her out first to "Inspire" Zoe Quinn who can bullshit.


If you don't want to be famous or known for this thing, why in the fuck you post all the story on fucking twitter instead of the fucking police??
 
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Rhysser

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How do you know the difference?

The way I see it there can really be only two worldviews here.

One - If a few innocent dudes go down then that's OK, it's for the greater good.
Two - It's unacceptable for any innocent person to go down for a crime they did not commit.

I suppose you could be between the two in a sense that you could think if we have one innocent dude per 1000 guilty then that's ok but say 500 innocent for every 500 guilty then that's where the line is drawn. I guess it would come down to personal preference.

Then you have side issues such as if there is no negative consequence for a false accusation then the instances of false accusations ought to increase since people with bad intentions will see an easy avenue of attack on a person they dislike.

I have always found that people will abandon "listen and believe" quickly once they are falsely accused or someone close to them is falsely accused.

The problem is, how do you know the difference?
I don't . This is why I don't join the mob.

To me this logic is just weird and sounds like this:

Someone used a gun to murder people ---> Ban people from using guns for legitimate purposes?
Someone used twitter to make a false claim ---> Ban people from using twitter to share true allegations?

Why does the fact that you don't know ahead of time who is abusing the tool, somehow make it the responsibility and fault of people who are not abusing the tool? It's always possible that tools can be misused to hurt people, adn the response is never to ban legitimate uses of said tools.
 

Saruhashi

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I don't . This is why I don't join the mob.

To me this logic is just weird and sounds like this:

Someone used a gun to murder people ---> Ban people from using guns for legitimate purposes?
Someone used twitter to make a false claim ---> Ban people from using twitter to share true allegations?

Why does the fact that you don't know ahead of time who is abusing the tool, somehow make it the responsibility and fault of people who are not abusing the tool? It's always possible that tools can be misused to hurt people, adn the response is never to ban legitimate uses of said tools.
Surely the problem with people making public accusations and those accusations leading to terrible consequences is one of the reasons society has evolved a modern justice system?

People using Twitter to make these accusations must be rolling things back in some way?

I'm sure if you were personally in the position where a false accusation was about to end your career and change your life forever you would have a very different take on this?

Not to say that her allegation is false by the way. Just that the method of delivery and the sketchiness of the details raises some serious question marks.
 

Rhysser

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Surely the problem with people making public accusations and those accusations leading to terrible consequences is one of the reasons society has evolved a modern justice system?

People using Twitter to make these accusations must be rolling things back in some way?

I'm sure if you were personally in the position where a false accusation was about to end your career and change your life forever you would have a very different take on this?

Not to say that her allegation is false by the way. Just that the method of delivery and the sketchiness of the details raises some serious question marks.
The problem is only with people making FALSE public accusations, not ANY public accusation. I think making public accusations that are true is a great use of twitter.

As I said, all tools can be used to harm others, and the problem is not that people are using the tools at all, when usage is legitimate.
 
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Saruhashi

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The problem is only with people making FALSE public accusations, not ANY public accusation. I think making public accusations that are true is a great use of twitter.

As I said, all tools can be used to harm others, and the problem is not that people are using the tools at all, when usage is legitimate.
And again, you don't know the difference between the 2.

You can only know if the usage was legitimate in hindsight. If you ever know at all.

Leaving you in a spot where you are fine with people being falsely accused if you think its for the greater good overall.

A stance I am sure you would change were you on the end of a false accusation.

This seems a long way to stretch just to preserve "listen and believe".
 
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Whitesnake

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I don't . This is why I don't join the mob.

To me this logic is just weird and sounds like this:

Someone used a gun to murder people ---> Ban people from using guns for legitimate purposes?
Someone used twitter to make a false claim ---> Ban people from using twitter to share true allegations?

Why does the fact that you don't know ahead of time who is abusing the tool, somehow make it the responsibility and fault of people who are not abusing the tool? It's always possible that tools can be misused to hurt people, adn the response is never to ban legitimate uses of said tools.
There are laws regarding who can buy guns, where they can buy them, where they can take them, where they can store them, where they can use them, and how they can use them. If people don’t follow those laws, they get arrested.

By contrast, anyone can use Twitter to make any allegations they want and ruin people’s lives, regardless of if the accusation is true, with no penalty for doing so.
 
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Tbone3336

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The problem is only with people making FALSE public accusations, not ANY public accusation. I think making public accusations that are true is a great use of twitter.

As I said, all tools can be used to harm others, and the problem is not that people are using the tools at all, when usage is legitimate.
The problem is not only with False Accusations, as the issue, even with legitimate claims being aired on social media, comes when there is not a proper due process being submitted to the proper legal authorities. The legal system is devised, even with some of its warts, to ensure due process for both parties in situations like this. Circumventing that fair due process via public shaming with no due process for the supposed perpetrator is wrong on every level. ( Before anyone mistakes me sticking up for the supposed perpetrator, that is not correct either, I am standing up for following a legal due process that ensures fairness for both parties until a verdict on the situation is reached).
 
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mejin

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And to the complete surprise of nobody, "She can't remember". Which was entirely predictable when the whole story was "He was creepy to me over dinner" *Scene missing* "He raped me". That's it. Team #Metoo gaming edition know she would not stand up to any cross examination so they sent her out first to "Inspire" Zoe Quinn who can bullshit.


That's what she said
 

Zog

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The problem is only with people making FALSE public accusations, not ANY public accusation. I think making public accusations that are true is a great use of twitter.
You think ruining innocent men's lives is a great use of social media?
 

Guynamedbilly

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It's a rediculous line of thought that most rape accusations are true, but most are never convicted. How the heck do you know if they're true or not? Just because you "believe"TM?
 

Rhysser

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There are laws regarding who can buy guns, where they can buy them, where they can take them, where they can store them, where they can use them, and how they can use them. If people don’t follow those laws, they get arrested.

By contrast, anyone can use Twitter to make any allegations they want and ruin people’s lives, regardless of if the accusation is true, with no penalty for doing so.
But there ARE laws. Making false accusations is illegal. Just like gun laws they are sometimes hard to enforce.

You think ruining innocent men's lives is a great use of social media?
Naw
 
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Zog

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But there ARE laws. Making false accusations is illegal. Just like gun laws they are sometimes hard to enforce.


Naw
Do you thing any unproven social media accusation should be treated as false?
 

xpresstuning

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I'm starting to get tired of it, I'm affraid... don't think I'm strong enough to keep fighting it. Over at RE you get banned for trying and here you get piled on and dismissed as a loonie for even trying, it's exasperating.
I've 'lurked' over these two forums for months, and the reason why i decided to join NeoGAF is particularly because it's not an echo chamber, not as far as i can tell, at least. It's a healthy community of individuals. What makes you think that it's an echo chamber? Dismissing the entire community without reasoning your motive isn't good.

Well it really depends what you mean by saying you were piled on and dismissed.
 
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Bolivar687

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Sucks that it might be true, as I've always had a strong emotional connection with his Elder Scrolls music.

That said, people really need to stop posting this on twitter and instead pursue genuine remedies, and the rest of us need to stop making excuses and enabling them because it only perpetuates this whole cycle.
 
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Collin

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The case could be totally legit, hard to say for now.

But does anyone find it odd that she says on twitter that she's "non-binary" but also "bi-sexual."

Those two concepts 100% contradict each other. If she was really being a good woke person (something she clearly cares about) she would say that she's a pan-sexual for her orientation.

I don't care either way, I just find extreme SJWs mildly annoying.
 

Rhysser

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The case could be totally legit, hard to say for now.

But does anyone find it odd that she says on twitter that she's "non-binary" but also "bi-sexual."

Those two concepts 100% contradict each other. If she was really being a good woke person (something she clearly cares about) she would say that she's a pan-sexual for her orientation.

I don't care either way, I just find extreme SJWs mildly annoying.
Bi-sexual means they like having sex with both men and women.

Non-binary means they do not identify as male or female.

So one is about who they like having sex with, the other is about how they see themselves and their own identity. Doesn't seem contradictory.

Maybe she is not attracted to non-binary genders even if she herself is one, so hence not using pan-sexual. I've heard that lots of people of a particular gender aren't also into others of that same gender ;)
 
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Collin

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Bi-sexual means they like having sex with both men and women.

Non-binary means they do not identify as male or female.

So one is about who they like having sex with, the other is about how they see themselves and their own identity. Doesn't seem contradictory.

Maybe she is not attracted to non-binary genders even if she herself is one, so hence not using pan-sexual. I've heard that lots of people of a particular gender aren't also into others of that same gender ;)
Oh yes, I know. I just find it odd for a person to reject the concept of binary gender for their own personal identity but only seek people who identify exclusively on the binary grid.
 

Rhysser

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"I'm neither a man nor a woman, but everyone else is."
Oh yes, I know. I just find it odd for a person to reject the concept of binary gender for their own personal identity but only seek people who identify exclusively on the binary grid.
Are they doing that, or are they saying they aren't attracted to non-binary people? Or, more likely, is it simply an oversight? ;)
 

M. Phoenix

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I know she said he raped her, but reading that story makes it sound like he didn't actually rape her, he was just a pretty terrible person who manipulated someone into saying yes to sex. So was it actually rape? Or is he just a pretty terrible and sexist person who used a woman? Because the distinction between those two is jail and "you suck, don't be like that" and she doesn't exactly make it clear which of the two it is.

Does she clarify that anywhere?
 

Z..

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I've 'lurked' over these two forums for months, and the reason why i decided to join NeoGAF is particularly because it's not an echo chamber, not as far as i can tell, at least. It's a healthy community of individuals. What makes you think that it's an echo chamber? Dismissing the entire community without reasoning your motive isn't good.

Well it really depends what you mean by saying you were piled on and dismissed.
I hardly even bother anymore, as such I haven't been piled on and dismissed at all ever since the pre-RE days but you see it constantly around here if you exhibit any liberal tendencies of any type. The reaction (likes and whatnot) system here makes it pretty obvious how despised and ridiculed any type of left leaning rhetoric is around here, this very thread should be all the proof you need, the first 5 replies are completely transparent in their contempt and reductionist approach. There are dissidents and they are allowed to expresss themselves (which inherently makes NG better than RE), but you're lying to yourself if you think anything about the political environment here is healthy. There is a clear and present bias in this community. Not that I have anything against that, mind you, but I do miss the days when such communities weren't completely overrun by partisans and zealots, but it seems like what I'm asking for is pretty much impossible, at least when it comes to Anglosphere-centric communities. Everyone is just a bit too focused on fighting the invisible war.
The weird part for me is that it's so specifically tied to the anglosphere... I'm a part of several Spanish, French, Portuguese and Italian speaking communities such as these and such issues appear to be non-existant or minor inconveniences at best, there's none of this ever pervasive Us Vs. Them mentality.
 
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Z..

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What's the invisible war?
The ever pervasive clash that's been happening between liberals and conservatives over this past decade in places such as the USA or the UK and the overall absence of level headedness being displayed by both sides regarding the whole thing.
 
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Zog

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The ever pervasive clash that's been happening between liberals and conservatives over this past decade in places such as the USA or the UK and the overall absence of level headedness being displayed by both sides regarding the whole thing.
I see, well people who disagree with each other...well they don't agree with each other and that leads to debates. arguments, discussions or whatever you want to call it. As long as all sides are free to make their point without being banned then I see no problem here.
 
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Thabass

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The ever pervasive clash that's been happening between liberals and conservatives over this past decade in places such as the USA or the UK and the overall absence of level headedness being displayed by both sides regarding the whole thing.
I'm with you. GAF is a far better place than ResetEra, but even here still has its issues. Regarding this whole issue with Jeremy Soule: I'm not saying I don't believe Nathalie, in fact, given the amount she wrote, I do. But, I also believe that she needed to go to the police and/or a doctor before putting this out. This is something a legal counsel should look over and then decide to release with impending litigation. I know it takes a lot of courage to do what she did, but doing it this way won't really help her cause that much. Some will scream foul or some will just blindly believe her no questions asked.

That goes the same here and on ResetEra. The amount of nuance here is low and on ResetEra, it's non-existent.
 
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Collin

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Ultimately, like any charge with criminal implications, this deserves to be handled by authorities within our court of law.

I’m not going to immediately indict this dude on what she says, but i’m also not going to immediately call her a liar and not believe her. I just want evidence of some kind like any crime that can send a person to jail.

I also maybe question her method of character assassination of this guy on twitter before going to some kind of authorities. That’s a form of attack that sure, maybe in this case is justified, but could also get twisted in the wrong hands of the wrong people. I don’t want to live in a world where unsubstantiated claims can be used as a weapon - there’s the a reason our court system is as deliberate and thorough as it is.
 

The Elite

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I see, well people who disagree with each other...well they don't agree with each other and that leads to debates. arguments, discussions or whatever you want to call it. As long as all sides are free to make their point without being banned then I see no problem here.
Debates are a great tool to get a better understanding on a given subject if both parties are willing to actually listen to one another. I feel what Z.. Z.. is talking about is less of a debate and more of an online war of words with very little constructive criticism towards any sort of solution. Things seem to be getting worse and the dividing line between ideologies is now the size of the grand canyon.

In this particular instance, I believe the victim however I do think legal counsel for how to proceed with outing the alleged rapist would be a better solution. The larger problem, and the reason we're seeing these allegations on twitter, is a lack of faith in the legal system to prosecute sexual assault cases. However, with so many people just turning to twitter to out their abusers we aren't really seeing that coupled with any call to action towards the legal system to review and reform the way they handle these cases.

If victims don't feel comfortable turning to the police that is a very real problem in itself but it doesn't seem to come up as part of the commentary around the #metoo movement. At least what I've seen.