Jewish woman thrown out of window, police refuse to see it as a racist crime.

[fireflame]

On April 4th, in Paris, Kobili Traoré beat and threw a woman out of a windows. The victim, Sarah Halini, had been threatened several times. Several elements pointed at the crime being a racist crime: The man called Sarah a whore, a "sheitane"(demon) after shouting Allah Akbar.
Before throwing the victim, Kobili shout"watch out, an old woman is going to commit suicide".
Voices have raised to have the crime considered as an antisemite crime, despite the context .
The murderer claims he was possessed by an evil force and that he could have targetted anyone randomly.

There are several articles mentionning the tragedy
I have not found any article in english mentioning it, but to make short, the concern is that the murder is not considered as racist because of political context and conflicts between jews and muslims. Our medias did not talk much about the crime(one could wonder why, was it because of political elections?).

 

[elrechazado]

"Jew woman"? That's an interesting choice of words

 

[Diabelli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0smTejZF42c

 

[wvan13]

"Jew woman"? That's an interesting choice of words

It makes me think of Borat.

 

[TyrantII]

 

[HazySaiyan]

"Jew woman?" Seriously?

EDIT: Honest mistake

 

[Somnid]

Does it matter? It sounds like he's charged with voluntary murder so pretty much any excuse for it would be illegitimate.

 

[Resident_UA]

Is this thread designed to incite racial conflict? I'm confused

 

[Dude Abides]

I know it's probably a language issue, OP, but "Jew woman" is not the proper nomenclature. "Jewish woman," please.

 

[seb_n]

"Jew woman"? That's an interesting choice of words

"Jew woman?" Seriously?

Considering the linked article is french, one could assume the op's native language isnt English, therefore the mistake could be forgiven surely?

 

[Conciliator]

EDIT: sorry, didn't mean to egg on language barrier, you guys are right

 

[SlipperyFishes]

It does look like OP is not as fluent a communicator as many in this thread will be. Mods will likely update the OP so cut them a bit of flak and maybe focus on the shitty details of the story?

 

[Westbahnhof]

"Jew woman?" Seriously?

"Jew woman"? That's an interesting choice of words

Come on now. Obviously not a native speaker, benefit of the doubt here.

But yes, OP, you should have written "jewish woman". I think.


On topic: Really hard to tell. What would change?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Read about this some time ago. Jewish people in Europe are starting to be targeted more again. A sad state of affairs.

The woman here was beaten unconscious, had 20 broken bones and then thrown to her death. Police arrived, but waited for backup while the woman was being killed.

A small march later on was met with resistance from local youth yelling "death to Jews".

That there is even some doubt about the motivation of the crime is very strange and should be cleared up straight away. Macron called for an investigation recently for it, so hopefully that will better things.

With the rise in antisemitism again I can see why more Jewish people are moving to Israel over the years.

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

Hold on, I thought jew was short for Jewish? Is that a slur now?

 

[entremet]

I know it's probably a language issue, OP, but "Jew woman" is not the proper nomenclature. "Jewish woman," please.

Yeah. I doubt it’s malicious.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Hold on, I thought jew was short for Jewish? Is that a slur now?

Jew is not an adjective.
Think chinese man VS china man.

 

[Impeccable]

Hold on, I thought jew was short for Jewish? Is that a slur now?

For, like, ever.

 

[Dougald]

Hold on, I thought jew was short for Jewish? Is that a slur now?

If you're referring to a person it is. Same as if you shorten "Japanese" in the US

OP clearly is a non-native speaker though

 

[fireflame]

Come on now. Obviously not a native speaker, benefit of the doubt here.

But yes, OP, you should have written "jewish woman". I think.


On topic: Really hard to tell. What would change?

Yes sorry about this iIthought this was a case where the noun and adjective had same orthograph(since it is the case in French and some nationalities in english share same spelling), i edited it

 

[HazySaiyan]

Come on now. Obviously not a native speaker, benefit of the doubt here.

But yes, OP, you should have written "jewish woman". I think.


On topic: Really hard to tell. What would change?

Sure, but you can see why on first glance it sounds dodgy. I'll edit my post though

 

[Charles Brandon]

Purely from the quotes in the article, it's difficult to discern any specifically anti-Semitic motive. It may be that there is some context which makes that clearer. It is easier to infer a motive against non-muslims in general rather than jews in particular. Referring to Satan does have a ring of mental instability about it.

 

[Kinitari]

On April 4th, in Paris, Kobili Traoré beat and threw a woman out of a windows. The victim, Sarah Halini, had been threatened several times. Several elements pointed at the crime being a racist crime: The man called Sarah a whore, a "sheitane"(demon) after shouting Allah Akbar.
Before throwing the victim, Kobili shout"watch out, an old woman is going to commit suicide".
Voices have raised to have the crime considered as an antisemite crime, despite the context .
The murderer claims he was possessed by an evil force and that he could have targetted anyone randomly.

There are several articles mentionning the tragedy
I have not found any article in english mentioning it, but to make short, the concern is that the murder is not considered as racist because of political context and conflicts between jews and muslims. Our medias did not talk much about the crime(one could wonder why, was it because of political elections?).

Just playing devil's advocate here - but is there a chance that the police have already considered if it was a hate crime, and once looking into it, saw that it was more likely something else?

I just find that people generally come into situations like this with conclusions, and often avoid all evidence that challenges those conclusions.

What you've described seems like open and shut first degree murder, and a hate crime. If it's really that straight forward, I find it hard to believe that the police aren't taking it seriously, or that prosecutors won't be charging this man at all.

Just to clarify, what exactly is the problem right now - is there going to be no punishment? No trial?

 

[Sir Abacus]

 

[Royce McCutcheon]

Jew is not an adjective.
Think chinese man VS china man.

For, like, ever.

If you're referring to a person it is. Same as if you shorten "Japanese" in the US

OP clearly is a non-native speaker though

Uh oh.

 

[Charles Brandon]

For, like, ever.

Actually I think it's very recent. Jew isn't short for Jewish, Jewish is based on the word Jew. Jew as a noun is not inherently pejorative but is has become so due to the way it is used by anti-semites.

edit: Although in this case it was used as adjective, which is bad

 

[danthefan]

Would it be harder for them to prosecute this as a hate crime? Having to go prove that in court beyond reasonable doubt sounds harder than proving this woman was thrown out a window.

 

[fireflame]

Just playing devil's advocate here - but is there a chance that the police have already considered if it was a hate crime, and once looking into it, saw that it was more likely something else?

I just find that people generally come into situations like this with conclusions, and often avoid all evidence that challenges those conclusions.

What you've described seems like open and shut first degree murder, and a hate crime. If it's really that straight forward, I find it hard to believe that the police aren't taking it seriously, or that prosecutors won't be charging this man at all.

Just to clarify, what exactly is the problem right now - is there going to be no punishment? No trial?

People are assuming the police refuses to consider the motive of the crime as racist because of a complex political and social context.

 

[Resident_UA]

People are assuming the police refuses to consider the motive of the crime as racist because of a complex political and social context.

It doesn't mean those people are right... People assume a lot of things.

 

[Real Hero]

jewey?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Just to clarify, what exactly is the problem right now - is there going to be no punishment? No trial?

Problem is they are not treating it as a hate crime, but have put the attacker in a psychiatric institution instead of prison, despite no earlier record of mental illness, while he was hostile to the victim before and is a known criminal.

This all happened during the French elections, so you have the added layer of people thinking it was a cover up to not drive people towards Le Pen.

 

[Turin Turambar]

Uhh.. Seems to me a hate crime (hating religion) not a racist crime.

Hint: if they shout allah ackbar and they act against jewish people, it's usually about religion.

Are you from the USA, perchance?

 

[fireflame]

It doesn't mean those people are right... People assume a lot of things.

That is true but investigating more deeply cannot hurt i think if anything if it can clear any doubts it can be all for the best. Because of the context, when things like these happen, people often tend to think about the conflict between Israel and Palestine, and wonder if it is linked.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

Say the whole word, OP

https://youtu.be/a5t96DhBf4I

edit: Now that was outta the way.
this fucking story. jeez

 

[Khaz]

People are assuming the police refuses to consider the motive of the crime as racist because of a complex political and social context.

What would be such political and social context? Do you have other examples of the police dismissing similar leads because of politics?

 

[Phoenix RISING]

This story Trends as my Twitter feed blows up about Jewish men wanting to create a show with the premise that slavery never ended in the United States.

The world is a complex place to live.

 

[Kyzer]

"jew woman" almost makes it sound like OP is on their side lol, guess its just an egg on the language barrier

 

[VAD]

You don't need bombs and guns to be a terrorist these days... I hope the murderer never leaves prison.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Say the whole word, OP

edit: Now that was outta the way.
this fucking story. jeez

I do not know this, what's the exchange?

 

[Charles Brandon]

Problem is they are not treating it as a hate crime, but have put the attacker in a psychiatric institution instead of prison, despite no earlier record of mental illness, while he was hostile to the victim before and is a known criminal.

This all happened during the French elections, so you have the added layer of people thinking it was a cover up to not drive people towards Le Pen.

I'm not sure how it works in France but, given the nature of the crime, they should charge him with it and let him plead diminished responsibility. If it stacks up, based on the opinions of experts, then fine, if not, jail.

It's difficult for a non-involved person to discern the veracity of the claim that he is mentally ill because the average member of the public is not an expert in mental health and is not privy to all the facts. Hate crime is also not obvious based on the quotes in the OP (but may be apparent with added context).

 

[fireflame]

What would be such political and social context? Do you have other examples of the police dismissing similar leads because of politics?

About 10 years ago in 2006, Ilan Halimi a young man, was baited by a woman who seduced him and a gang called "gang des barbares"(barbarians) adbucted him. He was kidnapped because they assumed he was rich since he was jewish, and tortured to death. The gang was arrested and the antisemite nature of the crime acknowledged, but the family complained that the police had been too reluctant to consider the kidnapping as antisemite, focusing on the theory of a crime motivated by money(it was in fact motivated by money but based on a racist prejudice)

While the story is different, it is part of a context of tensions that have been lasting for a long time.

 

[Sir Abacus]

I do not know this, what's the exchange?

Community. Season 1, Episode 12, "Comparative Religion"

Part 1:

Shirley: *Joy to the world the lord is come, the lord, the lord, the lord* Hello. Oh Is this your Hanukkah holder? It's, uh... It's pretty. We'll just, uh... Let's just put it... There we go. That's nice. So I can't believe I never knew you were a Jew.
Annie: I'd say the whole word next time.

Part 2:

Pierce: And Annie knows a thing or two about guilt. Am I right, Jew?
Annie: Say the whole word!
Pierce: Jewie?

 

[Resident_UA]

That is true but investigating more deeply cannot hurt i think if anything if it can clear any doubts it can be all for the best. Because of the context, when things like these happen, people often tend to think about the conflict between Israel and Palestine, and wonder if it is linked.

I don't think this is link to any conflict. LOL Even if this was racially driven it doesn't change the fact that the guy is a MURDERER!

 

[Kinitari]

People are assuming the police refuses to consider the motive of the crime as racist because of a complex political and social context.

Problem is they are not treating it as a hate crime, but have put the attacker in a psychiatric institution instead of prison, despite no earlier record of mental illness, while he was hostile to the victim before and is a known criminal.

This all happened during the French elections, so you have the added layer of people thinking it was a cover up to not drive people towards Le Pen.

But, usually in these cases they have a psychiatrist assess the perpetrator before just tossing then into a psych ward, right?

I guess it's not a bad idea for the police to tell the public 'Okay people, we're going to look into this' just to ease them - but the concern is that the public doesn't want them to just look into it, it's that they have already concluded it was a hate crime and the police, lawyers and psychiatrists are covering it up. The only thing that will make them happy is 'you were all right, it was a hate crime. Also, yes it was a political coverup'.

If they look into 'more' and it still seems like this man is very mentally ill, would that satisfy people, do you think?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Demons, huh? A likely story. And Jew woman..lol. Thought I was on voat for a second.

 

[gutter_trash]

OP's mother tongue is clearly not English, people in the thread hold back ob berating him.
Now
Now on correctness, since when has the term "Native Speaker" replaced "Mother Tongue"?


IMO, Mother Tongue is a more appropriate and correct term since your 1st language may not be the geographical location's language

 

[Westbahnhof]

OP's mother tongue is clearly not English, people in the thread hold back ob berating him.
Now
Now on correctness, since when has the term "Native Speaker" replaced "Mother Tongue"?


IMO, Mother Tongue is a more appropriate and correct term since your 1st language may not be the geographical location's language

Because mother tongue is also often incorrect, I guess?
Like, my friends mother speaks turkish, his native language is German though.

Also doesn't it mean that you are native to the language? Or some such.

 

[ClosingADoor]

But, usually in these cases they have a psychiatrist assess the perpetrator before just tossing then into a psych ward, right?

I guess it's not a bad idea for the police to tell the public 'Okay people, we're going to look into this' just to ease them - but the concern is that the public doesn't want them to just look into it, it's that they have already concluded it was a hate crime and the police, lawyers and psychiatrists are covering it up. The only thing that will make them happy is 'you were all right, it was a hate crime. Also, yes it was a political coverup'.

If they look into 'more' and it still seems like this man is very mentally ill, would that satisfy people, do you think?

The sentiment - from the articles I have read about it, I'm not French so probably missing some local things there - seems to be that the police was too quickly with dismissing the possible antisemitic nature of the crime. There is some background about the woman being harassed before for being Jewish, including by the attacker, which adds to that.

Like you say, it does not hurt to have a further look at this. Even Macron called for it, so I am guessing there will be some additional investigation into how the police handled the case and if everything was looked at correctly.

I don't know if it would satisfy people, of course not all. But it might help the family that the case was looked at from all angles to get some better closure after such a horrible event, instead of remaining with unanswered questions or doubts.

 

[gutter_trash]

Because mother tongue is also often incorrect, I guess?
Like, my friends mother speaks turkish, his native language is German though.

Also doesn't it mean that you are native to the language? Or some such.

Mother Tongue means 1st language.

You can be a 2nd generation child of immigrant parents and learned your parents' language first at home before the country they're in

 

[Nosgotham]

you state it was motivated by race but i cant see evidence of that just from your post OP.