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Jim Ryan and the denigration of Playstation.

Hatsuma

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You have the weirdest view. So Capcom, Square-Enix, Atlus, Sega have not had break through's this gen on PS4? Persona is now reaching more people because of Sony's reach and promotion of the series. Same goes for Yakuza, now that series is reaching even more on PC/Gamepass because Sony shined a light on the series during PS2-PS3 and doubled down in PS4. CAPCOM would be on life support without Playstation. SUre monster hunter would continue to sell on Nintendo/Mobile. But one game isn't enough to fund the entire org. Without Playstation Resident evil would not have been as big this past gen. It was in a toilet after Resident evil 6. Playstation had their own VR solution and from what I know there was a big investment behind the scenes between capcom and Sony. Which is why PS4 was such a big part of Street fighter/Capcom cup. And also why playstation was promoting a lot of big games on their stage from capcom last gen and now this gen.

Atlus is now rolling out more games in wider capacity than they were previous gen.

If anything pre-switch release Playstation put a spotlight back on japanese developers with all the deals they made with games like Nier, street fighter.

Final Fantasy is in a much better position as well now. Which is why we are seeing so many exclusivity deals.

SO just because they themselves are not making in-house japanese titles, doesn't mean they are not curating a japanese library of software. Which seems to be bigger than it was last gen with larger games having bigger budgets when compared to previous gen. If you knew how much money they had invested in capcom/Square you would be shocked.
Agreed with a lot of this, and Playstation Japan is still going to make games internally. Just the focus is on its most productive studio, Asobi. This can expand again as Japan Studio re-stabilizes. Because not only was studio Japan not profitable, they haven't been producing results. They haven't been productive. Paying those producers for next to nothing is a waste of resources.

But after finding out about Haven a day or so ago, the likelihood of them having 2nd party deals in place is high and I'm certain they have some Japanese devs contracted as well.

But Sony is investing in Japan and I didn’t realize that they have assisted a number of Japanese pubs at their most dire times. Capcom was in a bad ways for majority of Ps3 gen and the beginning of ps4 gen. Yakuza was a thing thanks to ps2 onward.

I expect the relationships and support to still be strong for Japan, though their focus won't be devoted. Now this generation may pan differently. They may acquire or organically foster Japanese studios.
 

yurinka

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Sony doesn't have a big lead. The gen just started. They might have what a million or maybe 2 more consoles sold when Microsoft has barely released an exclusive.
Yes, they have a big lead if you look at the revenue their gaming divisions make (Sony had this quarter and calendar year the biggest one a console platform holder ever had in gaming history) or if you look at their market share in selling consoles, games or game subscription services where in most areas they are breaking gaming history records for any console. Not only in the next gen, the previous one too because it's still alive and will be during some years more because people will need some time to move to the next gen specially considering the covid related financial crysis (many people will jump to next gen later due to unemployment or financial unstability).

Until we have a solid date for those most of those games and not a H2 of 2021 then I'm going to continue to be hesitant to believe they are releasing this year. Sony has no problem delaying a game for their benefit whether it be to scheduling conflicts with other big games or the game needing more work. I can at least believe that Halo infinite will release this year due to it having been originally planned to release last year.

Sony just like Nintendo releases games to the beat of their own drum so Starfield or BOTW2 isn't going to affect Sony's console sales that much this holiday. In the past I've complained that Sony releases everything during the mostly the first half the year and Microsoft during the holiday season. I can understand why they did it since they didn't want to compete with EA ,Activision, and Ubisoft for the holiday sales.
Regarding H1 vs H2, this year Sony had a really packed one regarding exclusives. Already had several other less important exclusives and a big supply constraint issue, so for them was better to release these less important games during H1 while they solve the supply issues and keep the big gun for H2 to compete with the traditional H2 big multis plus pretty likely Halo Infinite, Starfield and BOTW2. Sony was negotiating time exclusivity for Starfield for months before MS purchased Zenimax, so Sony must know when it's going to be released.

Having a really packed year of exclusives, the covid pandemic, the supply issue and gaming history records in terms of revenue and sales it would be easy for them to move some big AAA exclusives to 2022, but out of all the announced ones for 2021 they only did it with GT7. After knowing all these things they decided to announce them for 2021 and to keep them for 2021 when they had opportunities to delay the games.

Once released they stop marketing their H1 exclusives and they wil focus on marketing the H2 ones. I think they are saving the wow effect of Horizon 2 and GoWR gameplay reveal for the E3, with their H1 exclusives already in the market and the supply issues potentially -or almost- solved to skyrocket sales. And I think they also will do it there because they also expect that this summer we'll also have the big BOTW2, Halo Infinite and Starfield reveal so will want to counter them with Sony's big H2 guns plus some 2022 related extra stuff (GT7, FFXVI, Project Athia) and maybe 1 or 2 big 2022 exclusive game announcement (Spider-Man 2? Days Gone 2? Next Kojima game?).

But after finding out about Haven a day or so ago, the likelihood of them having 2nd party deals in place is high and I'm certain they have some Japanese devs contracted as well.

But Sony is investing in Japan and I didn’t realize that they have assisted a number of Japanese pubs at their most dire times. Capcom was in a bad ways for majority of Ps3 gen and the beginning of ps4 gen. Yakuza was a thing thanks to ps2 onward.

I expect the relationships and support to still be strong for Japan, though their focus won't be devoted. Now this generation may pan differently. They may acquire or organically foster Japanese studios.
Sony will have many non-1st party Japanese exclusives, for sure. Remember that basically every known Japanese publisher or dev had or will have at least a PS4 exclusive, and some of them with long relationships as can be the Persona series too. And for the future they also have more recent deals like the one with Square for FFVIIR Ep 1, Ep 2, FFXVI, Project Athia, or the one with Kadokawa+CyGames (which includes many Japanese publishers and devs being From Software one of them).

And well, obviously there are the Japanese multi games, and the games Polyphony and Japan Studio will release. Sony won't be short of Japanese games, specially now that they are perfoming better than ever on a global scale and that many Japanese publishers and devs are switching from a Japanese market only strategy to a global appeal strategy, where having Sony's support would really help them.
 
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Hatsuma

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I do. Creativity begets creativity. I much rather a brand that is associated with risk and artistic intent, while also having the big hitters.

A big melding pot of boundaries being pushed which transcends and bleeds into other studios over time giving us fresh and invigorating titles.

360 had it early on, and once it started turning into a AAA shooter box, it’s identity soon became a shadow of its former self , while PS3’s focus on the above started turning heads. Eventually Xbox took on its current form, desperate for something unique to make it stand out with Sony dominating.

Sony making big missteps throughout ps4 gen that can be seen miles away from where I’m sitting.

Until Dawn was magic in a bottle, as was the VR offshoot....let go.

Driveclub was this gens Motorstorm in many ways....closed

Not backing Giant Sparrow, Thatgamecompany, Tequila Works.....the list goes on.

The other stand out is Death Stranding, and I’m not certain Sony gives a fuck.
Wait, Supermassive weren't a part of Sony's umbrella. Hell they said the door is open if Sony wants to do another second party collaborations.

Why do you guys keep saying they don't back indies. What was in their February and June 2020 showcase?

They just had a blog of nothing but VR games. They just announced a new headset. What could Supermassive be contracted to do for example? Actually thinking about it, an Until Dawn like official experience in VR would be an incredible idea. Give that Vr experience comparable to RE7 in VR. And fuck, they're gonna have Dual Sense features for controller and Headset... fuck...

And we are entirely unaware of their 2nd party plans. They may have another project with Kojima. The rumors right now is that Death Stranding had a PS5 Port and extended scenario. That game is literally made for Dual Sense.
 
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Hatsuma

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Yes, they have a big lead if you look at the revenue their gaming divisions make (Sony had this quarter and calendar year the biggest one a console platform holder ever had in gaming history) or if you look at their market share in selling consoles, games or game subscription services where in most areas they are breaking gaming history records for any console. Not only in the next gen, the previous one too because it's still alive and will be during some years more because people will need some time to move to the next gen specially considering the covid related financial crysis (many people will jump to next gen later due to unemployment or financial unstability).


Regarding H1 vs H2, this year Sony had a really packed one regarding exclusives. Already had several other less important exclusives and a big supply constraint issue, so for them was better to release these less important games during H1 while they solve the supply issues and keep the big gun for H2 to compete with the traditional H2 big multis plus pretty likely Halo Infinite, Starfield and BOTW2. Sony was negotiating time exclusivity for Starfield for months before MS purchased Zenimax, so Sony must know when it's going to be released.

Having a really packed year of exclusives, the covid pandemic, the supply issue and gaming history records in terms of revenue and sales it would be easy for them to move some big AAA exclusives to 2022, but out of all the announced ones for 2021 they only did it with GT7. After knowing all these things they decided to announce them for 2021 and to keep them for 2021 when they had opportunities to delay the games.

Once released they stop marketing their H1 exclusives and they wil focus on marketing the H2 ones. I think they are saving the wow effect of Horizon 2 and GoWR gameplay reveal for the E3, with their H1 exclusives already in the market and the supply issues potentially -or almost- solved to skyrocket sales. And I think they also will do it there because they also expect that this summer we'll also have the big BOTW2, Halo Infinite and Starfield reveal so will want to counter them with Sony's big H2 guns plus some 2022 related extra stuff (GT7, FFXVI, Project Athia) and maybe 1 or 2 big 2022 exclusive game announcement (Spider-Man 2? Days Gone 2? Next Kojima game?).


Sony will have many non-1st party Japanese exclusives, for sure. Remember that basically every known Japanese publisher or dev had or will have at least a PS4 exclusive, and some of them with long relationships as can be the Persona series too. And for the future they also have more recent deals like the one with Square for FFVIIR Ep 1, Ep 2, FFXVI, Project Athia, or the one with Kadokawa+CyGames (which includes many Japanese publishers and devs being From Software one of them).

And well, obviously there are the Japanese multi games, and the games Polyphony and Japan Studio will release. Sony won't be short of Japanese games, specially now that they are perfoming better than ever on a global scale and that many Japanese publishers and devs are switching from a Japanese market only strategy to a global appeal strategy, where having Sony's support would really help them.
Agreed. Literally only a few months in and I think the Playstation 5 generation is looking to be another big winner.
 

NahaNago

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Yes, they have a big lead if you look at the revenue their gaming divisions make (Sony had this quarter and calendar year the biggest one a console platform holder ever had in gaming history) or if you look at their market share in selling consoles, games or game subscription services where in most areas they are breaking gaming history records for any console. Not only in the next gen, the previous one too because it's still alive and will be during some years more because people will need some time to move to the next gen specially considering the covid related financial crysis (many people will jump to next gen later due to unemployment or financial unstability).


Regarding H1 vs H2, this year Sony had a really packed one regarding exclusives. Already had several other less important exclusives and a big supply constraint issue, so for them was better to release these less important games during H1 while they solve the supply issues and keep the big gun for H2 to compete with the traditional H2 big multis plus pretty likely Halo Infinite, Starfield and BOTW2. Sony was negotiating time exclusivity for Starfield for months before MS purchased Zenimax, so Sony must know when it's going to be released.

Having a really packed year of exclusives, the covid pandemic, the supply issue and gaming history records in terms of revenue and sales it would be easy for them to move some big AAA exclusives to 2022, but out of all the announced ones for 2021 they only did it with GT7. After knowing all these things they decided to announce them for 2021 and to keep them for 2021 when they had opportunities to delay the games.

Once released they stop marketing their H1 exclusives and they wil focus on marketing the H2 ones. I think they are saving the wow effect of Horizon 2 and GoWR gameplay reveal for the E3, with their H1 exclusives already in the market and the supply issues potentially -or almost- solved to skyrocket sales. And I think they also will do it there because they also expect that this summer we'll also have the big BOTW2, Halo Infinite and Starfield reveal so will want to counter them with Sony's big H2 guns plus some 2022 related extra stuff (GT7, FFXVI, Project Athia) and maybe 1 or 2 big 2022 exclusive game announcement (Spider-Man 2? Days Gone 2? Next Kojima game?).
They just launched the ps5 so of course they are going to be make tons of revenue from folks not only buying the console but also buying games to play on that new console. But the gen just started and Microsoft is still doing well. Wait isn't Microsoft's subscription services stomping Sony's.

You have a lot of optimism for Sony. For me I'm looking at what they have said and done in the last few months with all of Jim Ryan's lies for marketing purposes in order to have a clearer picture of what Sony will do. So forgive me if I don't just all of a sudden believe that Sony will release all of these games this year especially after the best excuse called Covid. Bethesda are Microsoft only games until Microsoft decides they aren't. I'd love to be wrong but I'm sorry I just don't see it happening.
 
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HarryKS

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I can't stand seeing this thread on the front page. Change the god damn title. Malapropism is not cool. Use the correct term. People might think it's the correct one.

Degradation, not denigration.

Even disintegration if you feel like it.
 

yurinka

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Wait, Supermassive weren't a part of Sony's umbrella. Hell they said the door is open if Sony wants to do another second party collaborations.

Why do you guys keep saying they don't back indies. What was in their February and June 2020 showcase?

They just had a blog of nothing but VR games. They just announced a new headset. What could Supermassive be contracted to do for example. Actually thinking about it, an Until Dawn like official experience in VR would be an incredible idea. Give that Vr experience comparable to RE7 in VR. And fuck, they're gonna have Dual Sense features for controller and Headset... fuck...

And we are entirely unaware of their 2nd party plans. They may have another project with Kojima. The rumors right now is that Death Stranding had a PS5 Port and extended scenario. That game is literally made for Dual Sense.
Seems that regarding 2nd party and 3rd party indie/AA/AAA exclusives Sony's strategy is evolving to something more dev studio friendly:

In the past Sony kept these IP for Sony and to keep the games exclusive to PS Platforms. But recently they allowed Kojima, Quantic Dream, Giant Sparrow or ThatGameCompany to release these IPs on PC with other publishers. Many 2nd/3rd party in the past were full exclusives and now typically are console exclusives or timed console exclusives.

This really helps the devs because being able to release their games on more platforms help them to be more profitable, so they can handle better the rising costs we see each generation.

It also helps Sony, because to sign a console exclusive or timed console exclusive is cheaper than to sign a full exclusive, so with the same money they can afford more exclusives. And regarding using exclusives as marketing, seems that the effect is the same or even more powerful using the current strategy if we look at Sony's gaming division revenue, console sales and game sales.

Regarding possible future 2nd party or 3rd party exclusive games there are a ton of options, since there are many new dev studios appearing each year, like we saw recently Jade Raymond's (+ several industry veterans, it may have people like Amy Hening, Kim Swift or former Ubi Toronto devs) new independent studio that signed with Sony. But there's also the next Kojima game, or the next Fumito Ueda game, or the next Jonathan Blow game and the list go on. As an example, Quantic Dream said they wanted to go multi but that they also weren't closing the door for possible future works for Sony.
 
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DonJorginho

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HIDEO KOJIMA OR GORO MAJIMA?

 

Papacheeks

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Agreed with a lot of this, and Playstation Japan is still going to make games internally. Just the focus is on its most productive studio, Asobi. This can expand again as Japan Studio re-stabilizes. Because not only was studio Japan not profitable, they haven't been producing results. They haven't been productive. Paying those producers for next to nothing is a waste of resources.

But after finding out about Haven a day or so ago, the likelihood of them having 2nd party deals in place is high and I'm certain they have some Japanese devs contracted as well.

But Sony is investing in Japan and I didn’t realize that they have assisted a number of Japanese pubs at their most dire times. Capcom was in a bad ways for majority of Ps3 gen and the beginning of ps4 gen. Yakuza was a thing thanks to ps2 onward.

I expect the relationships and support to still be strong for Japan, though their focus won't be devoted. Now this generation may pan differently. They may acquire or organically foster Japanese studios.

If you only knew the amount of money Sony put forth for a lot of the games coming soon. We'll hear more later this year from some more informed journalists. Japan is hiring a lot of people from china/korea, and the likely hood of those new developers being part of a larger traded company is going to surface soon.

The other thing is if you guys thinks these titles announced like Progmata, Final fantasy 16, Project Athia were the big games? Your all going to need some new pants lol.

Thats about all I can say on the matter. After april we might hear some rumors become a little more clear on deals that have been made if my info is correct. If things got shuffled or didn't pan then maybe later in the year. But if you think all Sony has planned is just 12-24 months, think again.

Deals Sony has made at the end of 2020 were not cheap, and that was only what people knew about reporting wise. I do know there is way more money being spent on exclusive content, and some of it straight up being funded and distributed by Sony themselves.
 
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Hatsuma

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Seems that regarding 2nd party and 3rd party indie/AA/AAA exclusives Sony's strategy is evolving to something more dev studio friendly:

In the past Sony kept these IP for Sony and to keep the games exclusive to PS Platforms. But recently they allowed Kojima, Quantic Dream, Giant Sparrow or ThatGameCompany to release these IPs on PC with other publishers. Many 2nd/3rd party in the past were full exclusives and now typically are console exclusives or timed console exclusives.

This really helps the devs because being able to release their games on more platforms help them to be more profitable, so they can handle better the rising costs we see each generation.

It also helps Sony, because to sign a console exclusive or timed console exclusive is cheaper than to sign a full exclusive, so with the same money they can afford more exclusives. And regarding using exclusives as marketing, seems that the effect is the same or even more powerful using the current strategy if we look at Sony's gaming division revenue, console sales and game sales.

Regarding possible future 2nd party or 3rd party exclusive games there are a ton of options, since there are many new dev studios appearing each year, like we saw recently Jade Raymond's (+ several industry veterans, it may have people like Amy Hening, Kim Swift or former Ubi Toronto devs) new independent studio that signed with Sony. But there's also the next Kojima game, or the next Fumito Ueda game, or the next Jonathan Blow game and the list go on. As an example, Quantic Dream said they wanted to go multi but that they also weren't closing the door for possible future works for Sony.
Exactumundo. With the report that over 300 million was invested in 2nd party games beginning last year, I can only imagine how many 2nd party games are coming in between their 1st party juggernauts
 

yurinka

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Wait isn't Microsoft's subscription services stomping Sony's.
No, Sony game subscription services (Plus+Now) generate way more revenue and has way more subscribers than the MS ones (Gold+GamePass+GamePass Ultimate).

Bethesda are Microsoft only games until Microsoft decides they aren't.
Microsoft said several times that they decided that won't make Microsoft platforms only all Zenimax/Bethesda games. That they aim for the 3B gamers (this include the ones in Sony and Nintendo platforms), that they prefer a 'first or best on Xbox' (so timed console exclusive or multi) approach, that they will honor the deals they have with other platforms for future games and that they will continue supporting the communities they have in other platforms (as they did with Minecraft).

So MS may keep full console exclusive some future Zenimax/Bethesda games, but we know at least some future Zenimax/Bethesda games will be released on non-Microsoft consoles at launch or after a timed exclusivity.

Exactumundo. With the report that over 300 million was invested in 2nd party games beginning last year, I can only imagine how many 2nd party games are coming in between their 1st party juggernauts
Was this official news or just a rumor? Because with 300M you can fund a ton of small and AA games.
 
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InDaGulag

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No, Sony game subscription services (Plus+Now) generate way more revenue and has way more subscribers than the MS ones (Gold+GamePass+GamePass Ultimate).


Microsoft said several times that they decided that won't make Microsoft platforms only all Zenimax/Bethesda games. That they aim for the 3B gamers (this include the ones in Sony and Nintendo platforms), that they prefer a 'first or best on Xbox' (so timed console exclusive or multi) approach, that they will honor the deals they have with other platforms for future games and that they will continue supporting the communities they have in other platforms (as they did with Minecraft).

So MS may keep full console exclusive some future Zenimax/Bethesda games, but we know at least some future Zenimax/Bethesda games will be released on non-Microsoft consoles at launch or after a timed exclusivity.


Was this official news or just a rumor? Because with 300M you can fund a ton of small and AA games.

New Bethesda games will only be coming to platforms that have Game Pass. That’s straight from Phil Spencer’s mouth.

Bethesda games on Sony platforms is over.
 

Hypereides

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You have the weirdest view. So Capcom, Square-Enix, Atlus, Sega have not had break through's this gen on PS4? Persona is now reaching more people because of Sony's reach and promotion of the series. Same goes for Yakuza, now that series is reaching even more on PC/Gamepass because Sony shined a light on the series during PS2-PS3 and doubled down in PS4. CAPCOM would be on life support without Playstation. SUre monster hunter would continue to sell on Nintendo/Mobile. But one game isn't enough to fund the entire org. Without Playstation Resident evil would not have been as big this past gen. It was in a toilet after Resident evil 6. Playstation had their own VR solution and from what I know there was a big investment behind the scenes between capcom and Sony. Which is why PS4 was such a big part of Street fighter/Capcom cup. And also why playstation was promoting a lot of big games on their stage from capcom last gen and now this gen.

Atlus is now rolling out more games in wider capacity than they were previous gen.

If anything pre-switch release Playstation put a spotlight back on japanese developers with all the deals they made with games like Nier, street fighter.

Final Fantasy is in a much better position as well now. Which is why we are seeing so many exclusivity deals.

SO just because they themselves are not making in-house japanese titles, doesn't mean they are not curating a japanese library of software. Which seems to be bigger than it was last gen with larger games having bigger budgets when compared to previous gen. If you knew how much money they had invested in capcom/Square you would be shocked.

Weirdest? Lol. All I'm reading is a wall of text saying my opinion upset your strong bias.

Look, if you enjoy the current state of PlayStation and what's coming then more power to you. I have no qualms with that.

Speak for yourself. I've been with Playstation since day 1 and the brand has never been better, never been stronger and never had a brighter future. Fucking hell this thread is sad.

If you think the "brand" is "better than ever" then that's fine and, you're right, I do speak for myself. This is what I legitimately think about the situation. Whether the "brand" actually is "better than ever", is up to debate. That said I'm not going to damper your enjoyment from it. If you think that its "sad" that someone expresses an opinion that doesn't align with yours then I don't know what to tell you.
 

yurinka

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New Bethesda games will only be coming to platforms that have Game Pass. That’s straight from Phil Spencer’s mouth.

Bethesda games on Sony platforms is over.
No, he didn't say that. Listen carefully to his exact wording, and to get the complete context and meaning combine it with all his previous quotes in interviews and the Xbox CFO ones regarding exclusivity of future Zenimax/Bethesda games.

And remember, the platform holder PR guys traditionally prefer to shorten 'timed console exclusive' to 'exclusive' until the game gets announced for competition platforms traditionally some time after the original release.

Bonus track: in terms of PR to mention 'platforms that have Game Pass' was also a weird wording instead of saying 'Xbox and Windows' or 'Xbox ecosystem' or something like that. Specially considering all the complete picture regarding this topic ('targeting 3B players', 'first or best', 'exclusivity to be decided case by case', 'honoring past deals with other platforms', 'supporting stablished comunities in other platforms', 'we can't say all Bethesda games will be Xbox exclusive' etc) is almost like a hint pointing that Game Pass may get released on other consoles in the future.

I think that were they were more clear was on this Xbox CFO quote:

"What we'll do in the long run is we don't have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise. But what we want is we want that content, in the long run, to be either first or better or best or pick your differentiated experience, on our platforms. We will want Bethesda content to show up the best as -- on our platforms.

Yes. That's not a point about being exclusive. That's not a point about we're being -- adjusting timing or content or road map. But if you think about something like Game Pass, if it shows up best in Game Pass, that's what we want to see, and we want to drive our Game Pass subscriber base through that Bethesda pipeline.

So again, I'm not announcing pulling content from platforms one way or the other. But I suspect you'll continue to see us shift towards a first or better or best approach on our platforms."

Which would match with Spencer saying 'exclusive' when he was meaning 'timed console exclusive'.
 
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Hatsuma

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No, Sony game subscription services (Plus+Now) generate way more revenue and has way more subscribers than the MS ones (Gold+GamePass+GamePass Ultimate).


Microsoft said several times that they decided that won't make Microsoft platforms only all Zenimax/Bethesda games. That they aim for the 3B gamers (this include the ones in Sony and Nintendo platforms), that they prefer a 'first or best on Xbox' (so timed console exclusive or multi) approach, that they will honor the deals they have with other platforms for future games and that they will continue supporting the communities they have in other platforms (as they did with Minecraft).

So MS may keep full console exclusive some future Zenimax/Bethesda games, but we know at least some future Zenimax/Bethesda games will be released on non-Microsoft consoles at launch or after a timed exclusivity.


Was this official news or just a rumor? Because with 300M you can fund a ton of small and AA games.

Yea from their financial report. They spent 330+ million alone on 3rd party contracts or deals. Demon Souls, Sackboy were examples of their 2nd party games aka 3rd party contracts.

Brief comparison, HZD cost roughly 50 million to make
 
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NahaNago

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No, Sony game subscription services (Plus+Now) generate way more revenue and has way more subscribers than the MS ones (Gold+GamePass+GamePass Ultimate).


Microsoft said several times that they decided that won't make Microsoft platforms only all Zenimax/Bethesda games. That they aim for the 3B gamers (this include the ones in Sony and Nintendo platforms), that they prefer a 'first or best on Xbox' (so timed console exclusive or multi) approach, that they will honor the deals they have with other platforms for future games and that they will continue supporting the communities they have in other platforms (as they did with Minecraft).

So MS may keep full console exclusive some future Zenimax/Bethesda games, but we know at least some future Zenimax/Bethesda games will be released on non-Microsoft consoles at launch or after a timed exclusivity.
if we are solely talking about revenue then sure Sony probably wins that but from what I have googled Microsoft subscriptions has nearly double the numbers of Sony's.

Again until Microsoft actually has a release date of those games on Sony or Nintendo platforms then for me they are exclusive. I'm not going to fall in the trap of will they or won't they put this on other platforms. The same should be said for Sony exclusives as well. Just because they are putting 3 games on pc doesn't mean that every single game is coming to pc. Because they can still change their mind just like Microsoft.
 

Papacheeks

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Weirdest? Lol. All I'm reading is a wall of text saying my opinion upset your strong bias.

Look, if you enjoy the current state of PlayStation and what's coming then more power to you. I have no qualms with that.



If you think the "brand" is "better than ever" then that's fine and, you're right, I do speak for myself. This is what I legitimately think about the situation. Whether the "brand" actually is "better than ever", is up to debate. That said I'm not going to damper your enjoyment from it. If you think that its "sad" that someone expresses an opinion that doesn't align with yours then I don't know what to tell you.

If you would like links I can provide those. If you actually read what i was saying, you would know I was not invalidating your view. Just bringing up information about how much investment Sony has with Japanese publishers/Developers outside their own in-house production.

And because of that large amount of investment with publishers like sega, square, capcom, atlus. They feel that their money is spent on those for funding development and some times exclusivity is a better use of funds than having Japan studio at full capacity not making anything that they can sell. The last post by Japan studio Producer talked about him wanting to do another Siren game. And honestly unless it's resident evil or Silent hill I don't see Siren series or even evil within reaching the heights of those 2 juggernaughts. Especially with so many other games that bleed into that horror genre.

Thats all I was saying.
 
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yurinka

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if we are solely talking about revenue then sure Sony probably wins that but from what I have googled Microsoft subscriptions has nearly double the numbers of Sony's.
No, Sony also dominates on consoles sold, games sold, or going specific, game subscription services revenue and amount of subscriptions.

In the Neogaf and Resetera threads about Sony and Xbox quarterly financial reports they mention the revenue from subscriptions for each company (they are combined there instead of separated for each service), and also the Plus, Gold, Now and Gamepass subscribers. In the same way they don't provide GamePass Ultimate vs GamePass numbers so we don't know how many people uses the Xbox streaming service.

What we have to compare is the combined revenue of the game subscription services for each company, and the combined subscriptions for these game subscription services. In both cases PS ones are way bigger than the MS ones. That is a more complete picture that only looking at GamePass vs PS Now subscribers without considering if they are using these $1 deals, free trials, free months included when buying other stuff and so on on both sides.

Again until Microsoft actually has a release date of those games on Sony or Nintendo platforms then for me they are exclusive. I'm not going to fall in the trap of will they or won't they put this on other platforms. The same should be said for Sony exclusives as well. Just because they are putting 3 games on pc doesn't mean that every single game is coming to pc. Because they can still change their mind just like Microsoft.
The Xbox CFO said clearly that for the long run their plans for future Zenimax games is to make them multi or timed console exclusive:

"What we'll do in the long run is we don't have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise. But what we want is we want that content, in the long run, to be either first or better or best or pick your differentiated experience, on our platforms. We will want Bethesda content to show up the best as -- on our platforms.

Yes. That's not a point about being exclusive. That's not a point about we're being -- adjusting timing or content or road map. But if you think about something like Game Pass, if it shows up best in Game Pass, that's what we want to see, and we want to drive our Game Pass subscriber base through that Bethesda pipeline.

So again, I'm not announcing pulling content from platforms one way or the other. But I suspect you'll continue to see us shift towards a first or better or best approach on our platforms."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...interactive-entertainment-virtual?part=single

Regarding Sony PC ports, Ryan said they will release more PS4 games on PC. But notice he mentioned PS4 instead of PS5, so maybe their strategy is to release in PC older games to get some extra revenue after they made most of their sales on console. In the same way they wait until the game stopped selling in console after the initial sales and several discounts before putting them on PS Plus or PS Now.
 
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yurinka

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Yea from their financial report. They spent 330+ million alone on 3rd party contracts or deals. Demon Souls, Sackboy were examples of their 2nd party games aka 3rd party contracts.

Brief comparison, HZD cost roughly 50 million to make
I see that the original quote from Sony was:
"Certain subsidiaries in the Game & Network Services (“G&NS”) segment have entered into long-term contracts for the development, distribution and publishing of game software. These contracts cover various periods mainly within seven years. As of December 31, 2020, these subsidiaries were committed to make payments of 34,360 million yen under such contracts."

I means that Sony spent in the April-December 2020 period $329 Millions on 2nd party and 3rd party deals that cover different periods, mostly during seven years (this is, until aprox. the release of PS6).

Regarding HZD, the exact quote says "With a production budget of more than 45 million euros - Guerrilla does not want to mention the exact amount - Horizon Zero Dawn is the largest Dutch media production ever.". We don't know the exact amount, and this is only the production budget. They mention 250 devs in Guerrilla + 100 in Chinese outsourcing company and around 6 years of production (so add maybe one more with a small team for production and pre-production).

In addition to this you have to add marketing, pr, publishing and very likely Q&A and localization too. So very likely it may have a total budget of 100M or more. Which still is very cheap for a big AAA game like this one.
 

NahaNago

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No, Sony also dominates on consoles sold, games sold, or going specific, game subscription services revenue and amount of subscriptions.

In the Neogaf and Resetera threads about Sony and Xbox quarterly financial reports they mention the revenue from subscriptions for each company (they are combined there instead of separated for each service), and also the Plus, Gold, Now and Gamepass subscribers. In the same way they don't provide GamePass Ultimate vs GamePass numbers so we don't know how many people uses the Xbox streaming service.

What we have to compare is the combined revenue of the game subscription services for each company, and the combined subscriptions for these game subscription services. In both cases PS ones are way bigger than the MS ones. That is a more complete picture that only looking at GamePass vs PS Now subscribers without considering if they are using these $1 deals, free trials, free months included when buying other stuff and so on on both sides.


The Xbox CFO said clearly that for the long run their plans for future Zenimax games is to make them multi or timed console exclusive:

"What we'll do in the long run is we don't have intentions of just pulling all of Bethesda content out of Sony or Nintendo or otherwise. But what we want is we want that content, in the long run, to be either first or better or best or pick your differentiated experience, on our platforms. We will want Bethesda content to show up the best as -- on our platforms.

Yes. That's not a point about being exclusive. That's not a point about we're being -- adjusting timing or content or road map. But if you think about something like Game Pass, if it shows up best in Game Pass, that's what we want to see, and we want to drive our Game Pass subscriber base through that Bethesda pipeline.

So again, I'm not announcing pulling content from platforms one way or the other. But I suspect you'll continue to see us shift towards a first or better or best approach on our platforms."

https://seekingalpha.com/article/43...interactive-entertainment-virtual?part=single

Regarding Sony PC ports, Ryan said they will release more PS4 games on PC. But notice he mentioned PS4 instead of PS5, so maybe their strategy is to release in PC older games to get some extra revenue after they made most of their sales on console. In the same way they wait until the game stopped selling in console after the initial sales and several discounts before putting them on PS Plus or PS Now.
I already said Sony probably wins on the revenue front. Simply because as you said the $1 deals. So this isn't surprising.

The problem with the Zenimax deal is that they just bought the company and no big games are releasing soon. So they can say whatever they would like to happen and change their minds several months or years later. Not console exclusive could just as well mean that the games are coming to pc. Again until I see that they have announced that a game is coming to playstation I'm just going to treat it as a Microsoft exclusive. It's nice to have hope that the game could come to your platform and hey maybe some of the zenimax games could but it doesn't mean all will.

Considering how much Ryan misleads or opts out of not telling the whole story I'm not going to take what he says at face value.

We aren't going to agree on this. I'm more of a show don't tell me when it comes to these video game companies. Wev'e been burned too many times just to believe what the higher ups of these companies say. PS5 fake exclusives, cyberpunk 2077 console reviews , ea microtransactions put in later, and so many other deceitful tactics employed by these video game companies just make me hesitant just to believe what they say.
 

Hatsuma

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I see that the original quote from Sony was:
"Certain subsidiaries in the Game & Network Services (“G&NS”) segment have entered into long-term contracts for the development, distribution and publishing of game software. These contracts cover various periods mainly within seven years. As of December 31, 2020, these subsidiaries were committed to make payments of 34,360 million yen under such contracts."

I means that Sony spent in the April-December 2020 period $329 Millions on 2nd party and 3rd party deals that cover different periods, mostly during seven years (this is, until aprox. the release of PS6).

Regarding HZD, the exact quote says "With a production budget of more than 45 million euros - Guerrilla does not want to mention the exact amount - Horizon Zero Dawn is the largest Dutch media production ever.". We don't know the exact amount, and this is only the production budget. They mention 250 devs in Guerrilla + 100 in Chinese outsourcing company and around 6 years of production (so add maybe one more with a small team for production and pre-production).

In addition to this you have to add marketing, pr, publishing and very likely Q&A and localization too. So very likely it may have a total budget of 100M or more. Which still is very cheap for a big AAA game like this one.
Oh I don't disagree. I imagine the money they detailed was only for the actual development and not including marketing. And they could form additional contracts in subsequent years. They are not playing with 2nd party and 3rd party content.
 

b6a6es

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PS players always use metacritic as why the games are best.

A big chunk of the same players hates Ryan, and now we are using Sony's revenue as a given factor of if Ryan made it better or worse.


But if the person I'm quoting is right, then I fully understand why Ryan takes this approach if he is certain that it buffs the revenue. Its logical.
first of all nice try putting words into my mouth,

and yes, 2020 has been the best year for PS in BOTH Metacritic & Profits (not just revenues), all under the administration of Jim Ryan whether you like it or not.
 
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The_Mike

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first of all nice try putting words into my mouth,

and yes, 2020 has been the best year for PS in BOTH Metacritic & Profits (not just revenues), all under the administration of Jim Ryan whether you like it or not.
Sorry I quoted you as an example, I wasn't claiming you were the one saying it. Sorry didn't make it more clear.
 
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Hatsuma

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All I know E3 or (whatever equivalent Sony) has will be very exciting. Both studios will have some crazy shit they will be dropping on us.
That's the most exciting prospect. The competition is heating up again. But I do not understand the necessity to tear down Playstation because they aren't vocal about their plans, yet propel MS to new heights because they are so loud. Do results not mean anything? Only the possibilities of what could be.
 

Larlight

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That's the most exciting prospect. The competition is heating up again. But I do not understand the necessity to tear down Playstation because they aren't vocal about their plans, yet propel MS to new heights because they are so loud. Do results not mean anything? Only the possibilities of what could be.
Same thing happened all last year with MS talking a whole bunch where as Sony stayed doing their own thing.
 

Papacheeks

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im not too clear what's going on in EU but the impression i get, is the market is smaller and fragmented in distribution. and you just need football games. Jimbo has been coasting over there, mainly outside UK and Ger.

ps3 revival has to be down with Kaz team, gutted the techie side of Ken's ways and back to core gaming.

speaking about Ken, he has more gamer charisma than suity suit jimbo.

check out YT of Ken guest tapping for giant-bomb or his ice bucket challenge or his recent causal video with head of Tekken team.

that's what a product person gives you, knowledge and passion for his project and people who support the project

does jimbo have a psn gamer card? does he even know how to operate a ps5?

That goes against what we are seeing sales wise from Place like Germany. Which seems to be at the moment Nintendo land. Also EU is so spread out it's hard to read what sells across all of EU. Certain charts for certain regions you will for sure see FIFA as top game. But then you have outliers where you see Nintendo title or in UK's case Miles morales top the charts consecutively as more PS5 stock becomes available.
 
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Clear

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Sony is more like old Disney that relied on random big movies rather than Marvel Studios. Marvel Studios had a general plan that led up to end game.

I wasn't implying a MCU type deal where everything is coordinated, just that their approach is to deliver tentpole "event" releases at a steady clip that all address the same mainstream audience and their tastes.

The wisdom behind that is mainly that its very marketing friendly. They heavily promote the next big thing, so as to capture as much mindshare as possible around release, and then simply repeat the process with the next title with the overall goal that each "hit" elevates the stock of their first-party output as whole.

Their stuff also tends to be very character or scenario focussed, allowing them to hype them like movies. Mainly stories with named protagonists, which makes them a much more straightforward sell to the mass-market.

I'd argue that their approach is far from random; like Marvel movies what they tend to offer is stylistic and tonal variations upon a core genre template. The reality is that comic-book heroes and videogame leads are not exactly different! The expectation is you are going to be doing epic stuff that no real person is ever going to be capable of. Even more "grounded" leads like Joel or Drake get to commit more mayhem than an 80's action hero!
 

Hatsuma

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Reminder:

Lmao, what a way to misuse that quote. He was originally talking about ps1 and ps2 games. When there was an odd push that because Microsoft was investing that heavily into Backwards Compatibility , why wasn't Sony investing into it that heavily as well. The place where the quote came from, he mentions that he went to an event that had GT on ps1 and ps2, saying they look ancient, which they do. Jim thought it would be a waste to overly invest going that far back. Whether you agree with him or not is a whole different discussion, but he wasn't talking about ps4 BC.
 
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ZywyPL

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And yet, Playstation brand is strong as never before, and brings tons of money. You might not like him or his practices, but the reality is that he's doing his job, and he's doing it exceptionally well (well maybe except few mistakes here and there in the interviews, like the infamous "we believe in generations" etc).

They don't care about Japan because Japan doesn't care about home consoles anymore, plain simple, why would they want to desperately try to sell their console to people who don't care about it, at all, the monthly/quarterly/yearly stats clearly show that Japan market as far as home consoles go isn't much bigger than the one on Antarctica or Mars, just let it go already. They focus on US and EU Instead where people actually strive for their systems and spend hundreds-thousands of dollars each year, if not month, and as their financial reports clearly show it pays off.

Can't blame them of being a one-trick pony with their TPP cinematic games lineup either, that's a change I personally don't like as well and I'd love to see Sony going back to being THE go-to company when you seek a broad variety of content, but their current strategy works for them simply too damn well. They tired so many genres so many times already back in the PS3 generation, but nothing actually clicked for longer from that period other than Uncharted series, all those games released back then despite being absolutely amazing and acclaimed by the gamers, but didn't put the numbers Sony was seeking, and after seeing UC2 and TLoU huge success they decided to go that route entirely for the PS4, which as we all know today has proven to be the step in the right direction, their 1st party titles sell in teens on millions of copies, and they're not going to change that anytime soon.

At the end of the day the rule is extremely simple - don't like it, don't buy it.
 

YeulEmeralda

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Yeah but neogaf doesn't really want to look at gaming as a business. Jim Ryan is a "suit"? I would certainly hope so! He's heading a serious corporation. Who do you think runs Marvel? The Simpson comic book guy?

Just because Sony isn't making the games you personally want they must be wrong.
Did Sony have more Japanese games in the past? Sure but that was in a time when Sony sold 20 million PS2s in Japan and games were cheap to make. Times change.
 
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Clear

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Yeah but neogaf doesn't really want to look at gaming as a business. Jim Ryan is a "suit"? I would certainly hope so! He's heading a serious corporation. Who do you think runs Marvel? The Simpson comic book guy?

So true. Well put.
 

Reality Czar

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They don't care about Japan because Japan doesn't care about home consoles anymore, plain simple
The "they don't care about Japan" line is a pretty silly way to put it. Sony has always been an internationally minded company. They might be Japanese but they started moving their operations overseas as early as the 1960s. By the 1960s 50% of their gross sales were from the international market.

Nintendo, they started into the US electronics market much later than Sony. Nintendo of America wasn't even formed until 1980. Sony had been selling consumer electronics for over 2 decades by then. This is probably why they are more Japan-centric.

Microsoft is just a huge juggernaut. Really it's almost silly to compare it to these other companies. Bill Gates one of the richest men alive, he has global political power matched by few others.
 

Hatsuma

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And yet, Playstation brand is strong as never before, and brings tons of money. You might not like him or his practices, but the reality is that he's doing his job, and he's doing it exceptionally well (well maybe except few mistakes here and there in the interviews, like the infamous "we believe in generations" etc).

They don't care about Japan because Japan doesn't care about home consoles anymore, plain simple, why would they want to desperately try to sell their console to people who don't care about it, at all, the monthly/quarterly/yearly stats clearly show that Japan market as far as home consoles go isn't much bigger than the one on Antarctica or Mars, just let it go already. They focus on US and EU Instead where people actually strive for their systems and spend hundreds-thousands of dollars each year, if not month, and as their financial reports clearly show it pays off.

Can't blame them of being a one-trick pony with their TPP cinematic games lineup either, that's a change I personally don't like as well and I'd love to see Sony going back to being THE go-to company when you seek a broad variety of content, but their current strategy works for them simply too damn well. They tired so many genres so many times already back in the PS3 generation, but nothing actually clicked for longer from that period other than Uncharted series, all those games released back then despite being absolutely amazing and acclaimed by the gamers, but didn't put the numbers Sony was seeking, and after seeing UC2 and TLoU huge success they decided to go that route entirely for the PS4, which as we all know today has proven to be the step in the right direction, their 1st party titles sell in teens on millions of copies, and they're not going to change that anytime soon.

At the end of the day the rule is extremely simple - don't like it, don't buy it.
I half agree with certain remarks. Japan Studios has not been shuttered itself, the studio is refocusing on their most productive studio, which does not produce AAA and likely will not ever go that far. They had a lot of people on pay roll, yet a lot of their own projects were not manifesting. The previous head of the studio has mentioned before that in some cases, they had dozens of projects in the works that really had next to no progress done. The studio has endured the ps3 and ps4 gen, despite other studios being closed for much less. That's why I'm confused at the notion that they gave up on JapanStudios. Astrobot doesn't bring in buttloads of money, yet Asobi is a focus because the studio is producing with much less. They also have been promoting big Japanese titles and enlisted 3rd party deals on big Japanese ip. Who knows what 2nd party games they're forming, some of which could very well have some Japanese developers. Now I do agree, much greater focus is given to the west for obvious reasons. The west embraces consoles at full force.

As for for the one trick pony part, we really have to see because this generation began similarly as last. The ps4 was a melting pot with either 1st party, 2nd party, and 3rd party games. They certainly had an even greater variety of games earlier on in ps4 generation, though some studios were shuttered due to unproductive output or very poor profitability. Then because certain games had long dev cycles, Days Gone and Horizon for example, their games just suffered consequence of time. These devs wanted to do these games but them releasing in the time they did painted the image Sony only cares about cinematic games. They wouldn't invest in even in other 2nd party games if they only did.. Hopefully this generation will be different in that regard. The PS5 being much easier to develop for can help and them embracing the idea of having Lost Legacy scaled releases with some games to reduce dev time and cost can lead to a greater frequency of gsmes.

I think JP Studios can return to form. I hope the recalibration helps.
 
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longdi

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Lmao, what a way to misuse that quote. He was originally talking about ps1 and ps2 games. When there was an odd push that because Microsoft was investing that heavily into Backwards Compatibility , why wasn't Sony investing into it that heavily as well. The place where the quote came from, he mentions that he went to an event that had GT on ps1 and ps2, saying they look ancient, which they do. Jim thought it would be a waste to overly invest going that far back. Whether you agree with him or not is a whole different discussion, but he wasn't talking about ps4 BC.

ps1 and ps2 bc would be a piece of cake and small investment for sony to build long term good will with gamers.

a suit like jimbo only looks at the dollars and probably didn't play GT before
 
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The_Mike

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Lmao, what a way to misuse that quote. He was originally talking about ps1 and ps2 games. When there was an odd push that because Microsoft was investing that heavily into Backwards Compatibility , why wasn't Sony investing into it that heavily as well. The place where the quote came from, he mentions that he went to an event that had GT on ps1 and ps2, saying they look ancient, which they do. Jim thought it would be a waste to overly invest going that far back. Whether you agree with him or not is a whole different discussion, but he wasn't talking about ps4 BC.
I don't think anyone claims its regarding ps4 bc.
 

Hatsuma

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ps1 and ps2 bc would be a piece of cake and small investment for sony to build long term good will with gamers.

a suit like jimbo only looks at the dollars and probably didn't play GT before
It could be easy or possibly wasn't . I'm just correcting the intent quote was used for. I was hoping for PS2 BC myself for some ps2 JRPGs like Grandia 3, Shadow Hearts, Xenosaga, and Suikoden. But he didn't think a novel feature would be that worthwhile .

I mean it can.build goodwill, but what build even greater good is simply delivery new content of great quality in general.
 
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NahaNago

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Yeah but neogaf doesn't really want to look at gaming as a business. Jim Ryan is a "suit"? I would certainly hope so! He's heading a serious corporation. Who do you think runs Marvel? The Simpson comic book guy?

Just because Sony isn't making the games you personally want they must be wrong.
Did Sony have more Japanese games in the past? Sure but that was in a time when Sony sold 20 million PS2s in Japan and games were cheap to make. Times change.
You can have a suit running playstation but you also need someone passionate and loves playstation and video games. Do you really feel like Jim Ryan is that kind of guy. Do you think Jim Ryan treats the playstation brand the way Kevin Feige treats Marvel brand.
 
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