• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Jim Ryan - The Sony stance is that the Japanese market remains incredibly important to us,”

Mobile Suit Gooch

Grundle: The Awakening
Oct 5, 2013
7,475
2,671
925
South Eastern part of the U.S.
Make better ones?
I love the world, art style and music of Gravity rush 2. But as a sequel it was disappointing IMO.

Besides, one japanese game not selling as well as expected shouldn't be an excuse to completely give up. It's not like they gave up on cinematic third person action games because The Order 1886 bombed.
I saw a rumor about them bringing back Wild Arms the other day.
 
Jan 11, 2019
13,630
49,518
1,320
Tokyo, Japan
Papa Jim, we trust you with all our hearts!
 

vkbest

Member
Jan 23, 2017
1,497
1,437
500
I really doubt about Jim is saying. We have NIS making exclusive games for PSX for 2 decades and now multi platform games, even Disgaea 6 will not release on west for PlayStation. Falcon making exclusive games for 20 years, announced they will be multi platform company from 2021. Atlus only make Persona for PlayStation, when before they would release the most games on PlayStation.

I suppose that to Jim, Japan is Capcom and Square only
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrAspirino and LRKD

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Dec 3, 2004
3,824
1,378
1,755
Then why did you kill the Vita?? We all know mobile/handheld gaming is king in Japan. Yet you ceded the entire market to Nintendo.

Also, the PS5 is bigger than most Japanese apartments. Good luck selling that monstrosity over there.
I know you're exaggerating. But your point stands... Exactly.
 
Last edited:
May 8, 2019
764
1,139
355
The PlayStation brand is clearly it's own thing, which is headquartered in California. So he didn't really dispell any rumors by saying "Sony". Of course, Sony is still selling the rest of their products in Japan and utilizing creative talent and product designers there. Regarding PlayStation, though -- Jim Ryan can not leave fast enough.
 

Barakov

Member
Sep 30, 2006
8,095
6,159
1,520
“The Sony stance is that the Japanese market remains incredibly important to us,” he said. “We have not been as excited about the engagement of the Japanese game development community as we are now for many years.”
“I’d also observe that we’re making a statement by launching in Japan day and date with the US, and that is not what we did with PS4. So I read that stuff. A lot of that commentary is inaccurate, and Japan – as our second largest market and as Sony’s homeland – continues to be really important to us.”


 

FireFistAce

Member
Sep 2, 2020
536
537
320
People need to stop making stupid narratives about them so they wouldn't have to respond to questions like this.
What narratives are those? And the people making these narratives asking them these questions?
 
Last edited:

Matsuchezz

Member
Feb 27, 2020
472
608
300
Playstation Platforms receive a lot of japanese games, a lot of those games do not appeal to me, but I bet lots of people are covered with their japanese output, maybe Sony is not creating those, but the platform will not lack that content. I am subscribed to Playstation you tube channel, and a lot of japanese game trailers are published there. I guess why spend money when you have the base covered.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
Jun 22, 2011
10,280
1,403
865
Holland
I don't think Sony is shifting away from Japan, but Japan is shifting away from consoles for a decade now. Sony has Yakuza, Valkyria, Death Stranding, FF, DQ... there were quite some big games catered to that market.

For PS5 they essentially have DMCV and Demon's Souls available now. Gran Turismo is targeted for spring 2021 or so, and FFXVI has been locked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rac3r

Ten_Fold

Member
Jan 18, 2017
2,208
1,864
480
Mmm can we get another gravity rush or maybe legend of dragoon? That’s all I want from Sony.
 

Mobile Suit Gooch

Grundle: The Awakening
Oct 5, 2013
7,475
2,671
925
South Eastern part of the U.S.
Playstation Platforms receive a lot of japanese games, a lot of those games do not appeal to me, but I bet lots of people are covered with their japanese output, maybe Sony is not creating those, but the platform will not lack that content. I am subscribed to Playstation you tube channel, and a lot of japanese game trailers are published there. I guess why spend money when you have the base covered.
Atlus is having something persona related for the Playstation awards. I think
 

Redlancet

Banned
Jun 7, 2020
1,487
2,756
525
Then why did you kill the Vita?? We all know mobile/handheld gaming is king in Japan. Yet you ceded the entire market to Nintendo.
This argument its Pretty dumb, if people dont buy the damn thing what do you expect? Sony is not a ong, and you cant compete with Nintendo on the portable scene they can make things like animal crossing with little development cost and sell more than ten games with big budgets
 
Last edited:
Sep 20, 2005
18,635
636
1,800
Japan abandoned console gaming and Nintendo is the only company that has found a way to get a portion of those gamers back. I don't know how you go about growing a market that left you behind and isn't interested anymore. Japan isn't the land of geeky gamers anymore like some of you wish it to be.
 

Unknown?

Member
Jan 5, 2016
4,149
1,546
535
Japan abandoned console gaming and Nintendo is the only company that has found a way to get a portion of those gamers back. I don't know how you go about growing a market that left you behind and isn't interested anymore. Japan isn't the land of geeky gamers anymore like some of you wish it to be.
No they haven't. Wii U did terrible there. Switch is a handheld first and foremost. It can't connect to a TV without a peripheral(which is sold with the system however). If they made a straight console I don't see it doing much better there than PS4 did.
 

Bodomism

Do not engage the troll, report me
Jun 1, 2020
1,195
2,870
630
I don't think Sony is shifting away from Japan, but Japan is shifting away from consoles for a decade now. Sony has Yakuza, Valkyria, Death Stranding, FF, DQ... there were quite some big games catered to that market.

For PS5 they essentially have DMCV and Demon's Souls available now. Gran Turismo is targeted for spring 2021 or so, and FFXVI has been locked.
Demon's Souls and DMC aren't a big game in Japan.

For comparison after 3 weeks of release

Demon's Souls PS5 sold around 24K in 3 weeks with 12% attach rate.

Zelda BOTW NSW sold around 272K in 3 weeks with 61% attach rate.
 

Miles708

Member
Sep 11, 2019
1,122
1,425
415
Demon's Souls and DMC aren't a big game in Japan.

For comparison after 3 weeks of release

Demon's Souls PS5 sold around 24K in 3 weeks with 12% attach rate.

Zelda BOTW NSW sold around 272K in 3 weeks with 61% attach rate.

Is this data specific for Japan? Do you have any source?
Not because I don't believe you, but if true, this data raises a question: what the heck are Japanese owners playing on their PS5?

If you can't have a big attach rate even when there's only 1 real "big" game (which is the usual argument used for the Switch's attach rate) then your market is made almost exclusively of scalpers and lunatics.
 
Last edited:

Zog

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,692
3,208
445
What else would he say?

It will be news when we get a headline that says "The Sony stance is that we don't care about the Japanese market any longer".
 

AmuroChan

Member
Nov 23, 2013
4,074
1,071
775
This argument its Pretty dumb, if people dont buy the damn thing what do you expect? Sony is not a ong, and you cant compete with Nintendo on the portable scene they can make things like animal crossing with little development cost and sell more than ten games with big budgets

It's Sony's job to sell the product. Not the consumers. They barely supported it on the first party front and they didn't do enough to entice more 3rd party devs to release games on it. The PSP sold 80 million units and Sony rested on their laurels, thinking people will buy the Vita no matter what. Most of Sony's top studios didn't release a single game on the Vita (ie. ND, Santa Monica, Polyphony, Sucker Punch) and the studios that did work on a Vita game, many of them were shuttered (ie. Zipper, Liverpool, GG Cambridge). They had almost no big 3rd party games like they did with the PSP when it had GTA and Monster Hunter. Sorry, but if Sony isn't going to support their own system, they don't just get to pass the blame onto the consumers. Oh, and did I mention the ridiculous prices they were charging for the Vita memory cards?
 

Bodomism

Do not engage the troll, report me
Jun 1, 2020
1,195
2,870
630
Is this data specific for Japan? Do you have any source?
Not because I don't believe you, but if true, this data raises a question: what the heck are Japanese owners playing on their PS5?

If you can't have a big attach rate even when there's only 1 real "big" game (which is the usual argument used for the Switch's attach rate) then your market is made almost exclusively of scalpers and lunatics.
After 2 weeks on the market

26./11. [PS5] Demon's Souls <RPG> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2020.11.12} (¥7.900) - 2.882 / 21.489 <40-60%> (-85%)

and failed to chart on top 30 in its 3rd week which the no.30 game was at 2.8K and DeS remake failed to reach that number.


there's around 201K of PS5 hardware in Japan.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
759
905
365
The decision to swap over X/O made quite a few of the Japanese I know feel that Sony doesn't give a fuck about the Japanese market any more. The thing is that in Japan this is much more than just a control convention on consoles, O (maru) always means "OK"/"Correct" and X (batsu) always means "No"/"Wrong". Unless you are playing a Sony console.
 

Vaelka

Member
Apr 1, 2019
652
916
440
Then make some games for the Japanese market instead of globalizing first AND third party games to western standards and morals, or more accurately western Twitter standards and morals.

Everyone gotta conform to Merica.
 

Miles708

Member
Sep 11, 2019
1,122
1,425
415
After 2 weeks on the market

26./11. [PS5] Demon's Souls <RPG> (Sony Interactive Entertainment) {2020.11.12} (¥7.900) - 2.882 / 21.489 <40-60%> (-85%)

and failed to chart on top 30 in its 3rd week which the no.30 game was at 2.8K and DeS remake failed to reach that number.


there's around 201K of PS5 hardware in Japan.

Then, at cost of repeating myself... why are japanese gamers even buying a PS5, if they do not buy the only games out on the platform?
Is there something I'm missing? What's the logic here?
 
  • Like
Reactions: smorgasbird

yurinka

Member
Jan 19, 2007
11,637
2,556
1,685
Barcelona, Spain
www.capcom-town.es
Then, at cost of repeating myself... why are japanese gamers even buying a PS5, if they do not buy the only games out on the platform?
Is there something I'm missing? What's the logic here?
I'd say the logic is that -outside Nintendo platforms-:
-The biggest selling games are multiplatform instead of exclusive
-Demon's Souls isn't from top seller IP so it wouldn't make sense to expect top seller numbers
-The % of games sold digitally is very important
-It's developed by 'dirty gaijins'
-They knew consoles were supply constrained and had only a few thousand consoles for Japan, so maybe they shipped a small amount of copies of PS5 games for Japan too
-Knowing there are only a small amount of consoles out there in Japan, maybe it makes more sense to look at the attach rate of the game instead of looking at its (retail) game sales and to compare it to the Japanese launch attach rate of previous Soulsborne games to know if this game performed better or worse
-We're in the middle of a pandemic, so maybe people already made a big monetary effort to buy the console and will wait to buy other games later in order to save more money, and until then they will enjoy the BC backlog and PS+ Collecton games
-Knack isn't the main character of Demon's Souls

Not because I don't believe you, but if true, this data raises a question: what the heck are Japanese owners playing on their PS5?
Maybe they play mostly multiplatform, crossgen and BC games, like the Series X|S players worldwide. Exclusive games traditionally are a very small portion of game sales on PS and Xbox. And well there are games that are more or less appealing to the Japanese market. I'd say Final Fantasy XVI, Gran Turismo 7, Resident Evil 8, Final Fantasy VII Remake 2 and so on will interest more the Japanese market.

Japan is their second largest market. PS3 and PS4 both sold ~10MM units each there. PS4 sales were actually down compared to PS3, a console that had considerably more problems with price and Japan's slow response to the HD era. 10 million consoles isn't a bad install base but when you compare with the PS1 at ~20MM, PS2 at ~25MM, PSP at ~20, and even Vita at ~7MM the numbers don't look as good. Meanwhile Nintendo has seen a ton of success with the Wii, DS/3DS, and Switch. Switch has moved 16MM units in 3.5 years; over 60% more than PS4 in 7 years. More and more Japanese developers are shifting to Switch. Nintendo succeeded in capturing the handheld, mobile, and medium scope console market in Japan. The only games in Japan that are skipping Switch are the handful of HD releases like Final Fantasy.
PS4 will continue in the market for at least 3 years more. It will be in the market during 10+ years like the previous PS consoles. So it will sell many more units in Japan than the ones you posted there, it would be more fine to show their numbers for when they were 7 years old. And even considering that, PS4 is more expensive now than where these consoles were at this point, which means it has more room to continue selling in the future.

The home console market has been declining during many years for everybody, not only Sony. For Nintendo and MS too. And their game sales have been shifting to digital as hapened worldwide. Japanese market have been shifting to mobile, and always prefered portables over handhelds. This is the reason of why Switch performs so well in Japan, specially now it has the handheld market monopoly with Vita and 3DS buried.

The home console market is shrinking in Japan, but it's growing in the rest of the world (specially NA+EMEA), which is by far their main worldwide market. So taking that into consideration, the publishers focus less on Japan and more in the western market.
 
Last edited:

Unknown?

Member
Jan 5, 2016
4,149
1,546
535
The decision to swap over X/O made quite a few of the Japanese I know feel that Sony doesn't give a fuck about the Japanese market any more. The thing is that in Japan this is much more than just a control convention on consoles, O (maru) always means "OK"/"Correct" and X (batsu) always means "No"/"Wrong". Unless you are playing a Sony console.
Riiight. So Metal Gear Solid keeping the Japanese inputs in the West was Konami and Kojima giving the West a middlefinger? I never saw it that way and pretty ridiculous to think so.

Was Sega changing Dr. Robotnik to Dr. Eggman in the West also saying they don't care about Western audiences?
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
759
905
365
Riiight. So Metal Gear Solid keeping the Japanese inputs in the West was Konami and Kojima giving the West a middlefinger? I never saw it that way and pretty ridiculous to think so.

Was Sega changing Dr. Robotnik to Dr. Eggman in the West also saying they don't care about Western audiences?

That makes no sense at all - there is no cultural convention that X = OK in the west, but there is a strong cultural convention that X = Wrong in Japan.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShirAhava

Unknown?

Member
Jan 5, 2016
4,149
1,546
535
That makes no sense at all - there is no cultural convention that X = OK in the west, but there is a strong cultural convention that X = Wrong in Japan.
Well there was a strong cultural convention for the Dr. Robotnik name too but no one took it as Sega not caring about the West.

As far as the cross goes, when selecting something on a checklist you generally put either a checkmark or an X. I've played many games where triangle is the back button too. Are those games screwing over Japan as well? I don't really think anyone considers these symbols to represent their intended purpose anyway.. No one thinks of square as a map button.
 

Hudo

Member
Jul 26, 2018
4,948
6,323
490
I mean, what else would he say? "Nah, we don't give a shit about Japan because we didn't sell PS4s over there."? No sane CEO would say something like that, even if it were the truth.
 

MagnesG

Member
Apr 20, 2019
2,722
2,070
485
Well there was a strong cultural convention for the Dr. Robotnik name too but no one took it as Sega not caring about the West.

As far as the cross goes, when selecting something on a checklist you generally put either a checkmark or an X. I've played many games where triangle is the back button too. Are those games screwing over Japan as well? I don't really think anyone considers these symbols to represent their intended purpose anyway.. No one thinks of square as a map button.
Quite a stretch of logic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ShirAhava

Redlancet

Banned
Jun 7, 2020
1,487
2,756
525
It's Sony's job to sell the product. Not the consumers. They barely supported it on the first party front and they didn't do enough to entice more 3rd party devs to release games on it. The PSP sold 80 million units and Sony rested on their laurels, thinking people will buy the Vita no matter what. Most of Sony's top studios didn't release a single game on the Vita (ie. ND, Santa Monica, Polyphony, Sucker Punch) and the studios that did work on a Vita game, many of them were shuttered (ie. Zipper, Liverpool, GG Cambridge). They had almost no big 3rd party games like they did with the PSP when it had GTA and Monster Hunter. Sorry, but if Sony isn't going to support their own system, they don't just get to pass the blame onto the consumers. Oh, and did I mention the ridiculous prices they were charging for the Vita memory cards?
Thats a lot of nonsense, false claims and a juvenile and myopic view of how market works, congrats
 

Bodomism

Do not engage the troll, report me
Jun 1, 2020
1,195
2,870
630
I'd say the logic is that -outside Nintendo platforms-:
-The biggest selling games are multiplatform instead of exclusive
-Demon's Souls isn't from top seller IP so it wouldn't make sense to expect top seller numbers
-The % of games sold digitally is very important
-It's developed by 'dirty gaijins'
-They knew consoles were supply constrained and had only a few thousand consoles for Japan, so maybe they shipped a small amount of copies of PS5 games for Japan too
-Knowing there are only a small amount of consoles out there in Japan, maybe it makes more sense to look at the attach rate of the game instead of looking at its (retail) game sales and to compare it to the Japanese launch attach rate of previous Soulsborne games to know if this game performed better or worse
-We're in the middle of a pandemic, so maybe people already made a big monetary effort to buy the console and will wait to buy other games later in order to save more money, and until then they will enjoy the BC backlog and PS+ Collecton games
-Knack isn't the main character of Demon's Souls


Maybe they play mostly multiplatform, crossgen and BC games, like the Series X|S players worldwide. Exclusive games traditionally are a very small portion of game sales on PS and Xbox. And well there are games that are more or less appealing to the Japanese market. I'd say Final Fantasy XVI, Gran Turismo 7, Resident Evil 8, Final Fantasy VII Remake 2 and so on will interest more the Japanese market.


PS4 will continue in the market for at least 3 years more. It will be in the market during 10+ years like the previous PS consoles. So it will sell many more units in Japan than the ones you posted there, it would be more fine to show their numbers for when they were 7 years old. And even considering that, PS4 is more expensive now than where these consoles were at this point, which means it has more room to continue selling in the future.

The home console market has been declining during many years for everybody, not only Sony. For Nintendo and MS too. And their game sales have been shifting to digital as hapened worldwide. Japanese market have been shifting to mobile, and always prefered portables over handhelds. This is the reason of why Switch performs so well in Japan, specially now it has the handheld market monopoly with Vita and 3DS buried.

The home console market is shrinking in Japan, but it's growing in the rest of the world (specially NA+EMEA), which is by far their main worldwide market. So taking that into consideration, the publishers focus less on Japan and more in the western market.
Sold-through number for Demon's Souls Remake is at 20% according to Famitsu.

Sony shipped around 100K physical copies of DeS remake for the launch day and after 3 weeks it only sold around 24K.

We likely to see DeS remake, Spiderman MM, and the rest of PS5 physical softwares on the bargain bins soon after failing to clear the initial launch shipments.

 
Last edited:

Bodomism

Do not engage the troll, report me
Jun 1, 2020
1,195
2,870
630
Then, at cost of repeating myself... why are japanese gamers even buying a PS5, if they do not buy the only games out on the platform?
Is there something I'm missing? What's the logic here?
3 logical reasons

1. Scalpers and resellers bought a lot of PS5.

2. Playing PS4 games in high resolution and fps on PS5 thanks to PS5 BC solution.

3. No AAA game for Japanese audience like Zelda BOTW on Switch. DeS remake is just an old game with a new graphics and Spiderman MM is just an expansion of Spiderman PS4 game.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
759
905
365
Well there was a strong cultural convention for the Dr. Robotnik name too but no one took it as Sega not caring about the West.

As far as the cross goes, when selecting something on a checklist you generally put either a checkmark or an X. I've played many games where triangle is the back button too. Are those games screwing over Japan as well? I don't really think anyone considers these symbols to represent their intended purpose anyway.. No one thinks of square as a map button.

No, "Robotnik" was just an arbitrary name - I personally think that "Eggman" was childish and stupid, but it's just a name. What Sony are doing here is the equivalent of Sega saying that all subsequent Sonic games - even the ones for the Japanese market - have to use "Eggman"- which would probably go down about as well as Sony changing the button conventions on Japanese market games has.

What's happening here is that when the original PSX was designed the Japanese (quite reasonably) adopted a control convention that matched their standard cultural one. For some reason SCEA decided to flip the button assignments and since it was easier to take an already localized game and change the video mode than relocalize it SCEE ended up doing the same. Note that at this point, Sony was still a Japanese corporation - but at no point did SCEI go "no, you have to follow our conventions".

Now that Sony is a US corporation in everything except which market it's listed on, they are trying to force their (US based) convention onto everyone - including the Japanese - and a lot of people in Japan don't like that.