Jimquisition: Steam Needs To Axe Shithead Developers (17th July)

#1
Jim Sterling said:
Let’s not beat about the bush. Valve can fix Steam’s nastiest problem, but it involves showing some authority.

Valve may hate to put the boot down, but if you want to stop having Digital Homicides, Dentolas, or Fun Creators, you need to look at their behavior, not the games they’re making.

Bonus Content: Life Haxz with Jim Sterling
Link to the video

Digital Homicide me if old.

Good to see you're fine Jim.

This video covers more the absolute shit some devs have pulled and how Valve hasn't done much (they have at least removed Digital Homicide after they tried to sue 100 steam users).
 
#3
What about koei tecmo?
Tbh i tend to just ignore any games from such devs but am aurprised if theyre still getting their stuff up on steam.
 
#8
Well you can't argue with him, there's a ton of shit games on Steam, it makes finding something new and unknown to play much harder, I noticed this during the last sale where I did a ton of queues and it was endless shit with the odd decent game thrown in. And getting rid of all the abusive developers would definitely help I'm sure.
 
#9
Well you can't argue with him, there's a ton of shit games on Steam, it makes finding something new and unknown to play much harder, I noticed this during the last sale where I did a ton of queues and it was endless shit with the odd decent game thrown in. And getting rid of all the abusive developers would definitely help I'm sure.


You get games recommendations depending on what you play.
 
#11
I disagree with Jim here (as usual, I don't think he grasps what steam is trying to be about). Not trying to defend those dev's, but it's never going to be the point of Steam's open store front to be the judge of someone's Twitter account, and I've got to say, as a non-user of twitter, using that as a justification for not doing business with someone is petty as hell.
 
#13
I disagree with Jim here (as usual, I don't think he grasps what steam is trying to be about). Not trying to defend those dev's, but it's never going to be the point of Steam's open store front to be the judge of someone's Twitter account, and I've got to say, as a non-user of twitter, using that as a justification for not doing business with someone is petty as hell.
It's not about just twitter though. Have you not been in their steam community sections? Never mind lawsuits and stuff being sent, lol.

If you're literally attacking the people you're selling to, I think that calls for some intervention.
 
#14
He's absolutely correct. That clip of the phonecall with Digital Homicide was pretty disgusting.
You should see at least some of it, the part where Jim realises that one of the Digital Homicide devs is married and has kids and going "Oh dear" is hilarious.

I disagree with Jim here (as usual, I don't think he grasps what steam is trying to be about). Not trying to defend those dev's, but it's never going to be the point of Steam's open store front to be the judge of someone's Twitter account, and I've got to say, as a non-user of twitter, using that as a justification for not doing business with someone is petty as hell.
I think twitter monitoring twitter would be too much, but the abuse of steam forums, insults thrown at people who disagree calling them "Queer", making their own rules which goes against Value TOS, are thing's that should not happen and Value should at least do something.
 
#17
It's not about just twitter though. Have you not been in their steam community sections? Never mind lawsuits and stuff being sent, lol.

If you're literally attacking the people you're selling to, I think that calls for some intervention.
Let's be real here, do you really think it's in the best interest of a company to always take a sides in fight's of third parties they have some tenuous contact with?

Behaviour inside the store and steam forums? Yes, they should absolutely be under some sort of ToS. Everything else? If valve takes upon themselves the task of saving the world, like some people expect of them, they've got a pretty big task ahead.
 
#19
I know this is a favorite topic for Jim and I'm not saying he's wrong. But do we know how well these people are at getting sales and actually keeping them given the refund policy? Like outside the clutter in the storefronts how big a deal are these shady developers.

They all seem so obvious I would think (and hope) it's not that successful
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
#20
I'm in full agreement and it's been something I've been hoping they'll do for years. I'm a small time niche developer who does release things on Steam which hasn't gathered much attention, but some people are just shitty and don't have a place trying to run any sort of personal business and I fully believe don't have a place on Steam. I think a quality of a person has more to do with it than not, even good people can make bad games (and visa versa) so I can understand to some degree Valve's hesitance, but there's some very clear cut cases. Valve wants to make the system more running from the users, thus the Steam Explorers system being implemented and improvements to curators coming soon, but I think the opposite should also be true; when a developer is demonstrative of being a shitty person who abuses their users, critics, and the like then they should be held responsible for it.

I understand that's a slippery slope as there are some people online who do witch hunts and may try to attribute these traits simply to people they don't like and try to get vocal support behind it, I can already see some groups trying to call foul at determined "SJW" developers for instance and that's going to be annoying as hell to deal with. However I do fully believe cutting out obvious examples can help the storefront a lot.

The truth is these 'fake games' are a smaller number of games than many think, most developers are earnest in trying and aren't shitty people, but the few who are can poison the well and make people associate the unknown developer as being attributed traits of those of the shittiest among them. It's not good for gamers, it's not good for critics and personalities, and it's not good for other earnest developers. I think when you get to the point of threatening your customers, tossing derogatory insults, trying to silence people, and other shitty behaviors of the sort is when you should without a shadow of a doubt be breaking Valve's rules and losing your ability to sell games on Steam. I think this simple thing would solve a lot of issues.

I know this is a favorite topic for Jim and I'm not saying he's wrong. But do we know how well these people are at getting sales and actually keeping them given the refund policy? Like outside the clutter in the storefronts how big a deal are these shady developers.

They all seem so obvious I would think (and hope) it's not that successful
It's not as big of an issue as some things, since honestly most games and game developers are in fact not shitty scumbags, most games on Steam are actually earnest attempts by decent people and you'll find a lot of the same 'problem developers' at the heart of the 'fake games' movement. But even these fake games maybe take up less than 5% of Steam's total library and Valve has been removing them. But I think them responding to stuff like this faster would be a net gain for everyone involved, while I do think Jim in some ways blows the problem out of proportion I do think it is a problem that should be addressed. But I can't think of any specific trash game that's been some hit though, but I also think the issue is less "bad games", though I think that's what some think it's about but bad games isn't the issue and the refund policy helps against that. I think the real issue is those people who are what I'll call "Toxic Makers" (as I don't really want to call them game makers) who just make trash or even okay games, but then spread toxicity around. The people who just are not people you'd want to do business with as Jim put it, and are unpleasant all around or abusive at worst, and should ban them from selling games onto Steam for breaking that sort of trust, bullying others, and being toxic to various people.
 
#21
I disagree with Jim here (as usual, I don't think he grasps what steam is trying to be about). Not trying to defend those dev's, but it's never going to be the point of Steam's open store front to be the judge of someone's Twitter account, and I've got to say, as a non-user of twitter, using that as a justification for not doing business with someone is petty as hell.
Right, so if you ran an open market store front and one of your markets vendors were actively selling shit products, talking shit about customers, actually children, making up false reviews and such you'd just let it fly cause they paid you 100$ and give you a small % of their revenue? Forgive me but I fail to see why not doing business with someone like this is petty as hell.
 
#22
You would know wouldn't you ;) Kidding, but I think this video covers more about the devs who abuse their power and are shitty. Tecmo just make bad ports. Watch the video and see the shit these devs try to pull, and see how Tecmo aren't even in the same ball park.
Yeah i know what the topic's about and i do agree that steam should stop such devs from pulling this kind of crap. youd think steam/valve wouldve caught onto it, but i onder if they just leave it to steam refunds rather than blocking such devs
 
#23
Yeah i know what the topic's about and i do agree that steam should stop such devs from pulling this kind of crap. youd think steam/valve wouldve caught onto it, but i onder if they just leave it to steam refunds rather than blocking such devs
Valve had to step in and stop Digital Homicede from attempting to sue 100 steam users, but it's clear they have to do more they have already.
 
#24
Let's be real here, do you really think it's in the best interest of a company to always take a sides in fight's of third parties they have some tenuous contact with?

Behaviour inside the store and steam forums? Yes, they should absolutely be under some sort of ToS. Everything else? If valve takes upon themselves the task of saving the world, like some people expect of them, they've got a pretty big task ahead.
I just said it was the steam community section where it was happening. So I don't know why you're coming at me with this saving the world attitude. No one is expecting them to go after everyone who maybe called someone a bad word on twitter. I don't think Jim Sterling is either. That was never the intention of the video as far as I understood.

That Digital Homicide stuff was happening for AGES inside Valves own ecosystem and they did nothing to stop it at first. It took them far too long to crack down.
 
#26
I 100% agree but the problem is that a quality control line super hard (if someone breaks the rules you ban them) but the line where do you draw it and how do you argue what is "good" and what is "bad".

Because that is so subjective and differs from person to person.
 
#28
I 100% agree but the problem is that a quality control line super hard (if someone breaks the rules you ban them) but the line where do you draw it and how do you argue what is "good" and what is "bad".

Because that is so subjective and differs from person to person.
Calling a customer/community member names? Bad. Deleting civilly worded posts merely because they contained criticism of your game? Bad. Denying customers' rights to fair use regarding products they've purchased on Steam? Bad. Trying to con people into buying the same game twice? Bad.
 
#29
Speaking of steam, why the fuck doesn't anybody in the press formally take valve up on their shit customer service? My girlfriend has been locked out of her account since the Steam Sale.
 
#30
Well you can't argue with him, there's a ton of shit games on Steam, it makes finding something new and unknown to play much harder, I noticed this during the last sale where I did a ton of queues and it was endless shit with the odd decent game thrown in. And getting rid of all the abusive developers would definitely help I'm sure.
I get interesting stuff quite a lot in my que - maybe because I don't use any idle card farming bots ;)
 
#43
Bischoff's theme really does fit Jim. Back and better than ever. Has a knack for making things better. And you have to face the facts that your opinions don't matter because this maniac is just gonna step on whomever.

It's weird to me looking at the August 28 greenlight batch and seeing amazing games like Risk of Rain, Freedom Planet and Cook, Serve, Delicious get approved with shit like Guise of the Wolf and Paranautical Activity.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
#44
Well you can't argue with him, there's a ton of shit games on Steam, it makes finding something new and unknown to play much harder, I noticed this during the last sale where I did a ton of queues and it was endless shit with the odd decent game thrown in. And getting rid of all the abusive developers would definitely help I'm sure.
I don't understand how.

It's super easy to find good stuff on Steam, and even the queue (which is probably Steam's worst discovery tool) tends to serve up games that are popular and have high reviews.