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John from DF: No raytracing on XSX at launch (Update: “Oh, maybe it will then...”)

Redlancet

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Yea, I'm thinking that both consoles weren't ready for RT and it was rushed after everyone complained that they may not have it in this generaion. I remember AMD saying that they wasn't going to make RT hardware until it was ready for all platforms. Then like 2 months later, they announced that the new consoles would have it. I wonder if they went ahead with the console development of it before the actual GPUs going into the PCs.
I love how this whole "both" console narrative its being used by the usual suspects, first was used to dismiss the lack of launch games with the "both consoles" argument, now its with with rt, sorry dude, but one system its launching with games and rt, so you arent fooling anyone
 

Shmunter

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Can imagine implementing raytracing on Xbox is not trivial compared to PS5. On PS5 you build once, on XsX you need to consider 4tf limitations and possibly implement 2 seperate solutions where performance is not adequate. Yes scalability etc, but that scalability takes extra work on the platform. Would not be surprising if many Xbox devs may build lowest common denominator then just increase LOD and Res sliders, done.

This is not a controversial take on matters, simple realities.
 

Tschumi

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Can imagine implementing raytracing on Xbox is not trivial compared to PS5. On PS5 you build once, on XsX you need to consider 4tf limitations and possibly implement 2 seperate solutions where performance is not adequate. Yes scalability etc, but that scalability takes extra work on the platform. Would not be surprising if many Xbox devs may build lowest common denominator then just increase LOD and Res sliders, done.

This is not a controversial take on matters, simple realities.
This. I remember watch a Cherno reaction to PS5 Deep Dive in which he talked about the big advantage of console developers over PC being that they know what hardware they're designing for and don't need to water down their vision to cope with unknown end user specs..... No longer.
 

Shmunter

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This. I remember watch a Cherno reaction to PS5 Deep Dive in which he talked about the big advantage of console developers over PC being that they know what hardware they're designing for and don't need to water down their vision to cope with unknown end user specs..... No longer.
Problem is, this may negatively effect PS5 multi platform too. Same lowest common denominator reasons.

XsS is a detriment for ushering in a next gen technology uplift.

We can only hope PS5 dominates sales and becomes the de facto target so we may get better use of the available hardware.
 

Mod of War

👻🎃🦇☠️
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Oct 23, 2018
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MS and all their hardcore fans are talking about bc functionality 24/7 because there is nothing else... Oh gee, who'd have thought......
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....
........
Sony and there hard core fans all be talking about a remake of a old ass game and Spiderman dlc that’s on the PS4. Shit goes both ways.
You wish,that "old remake" and that "dlc" and some other "games" its better that your "nothing" bro
Dial back on the petty instigating. Thank you.
 

Tschumi

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Problem is, this may negatively effect PS5 multi platform too. Same lowest common denominator reasons.

XsS is a detriment for ushering in a next gen technology uplift.

We can only hope PS5 dominates sales and becomes the de facto target so we may get better use of the available hardware.
Ah you mean for cross gen titles? True enough~
 

Clear

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Can imagine implementing raytracing on Xbox is not trivial compared to PS5. On PS5 you build once, on XsX you need to consider 4tf limitations and possibly implement 2 seperate solutions where performance is not adequate. Yes scalability etc, but that scalability takes extra work on the platform. Would not be surprising if many Xbox devs may build lowest common denominator then just increase LOD and Res sliders, done.

This is not a controversial take on matters, simple realities.
Been saying for awhile now, RT is just more work for devs while they still need to support conventional non-RT global illumination solutions for some builds. Until its the bedrock, standard solution for everything its just an effect that can be turned on or off without real impact.
 

vaibhavpisal

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Jun 10, 2019
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After all the nonsense about the PS5 having software RT than shadows only RT being spread by xbox fans, this should be a cautionary tale to every wanna be fanboy on this forum... Sony, Nintendo, PC, that Stadia fanboy Voost Kain..... Dont be that guy because Life is a motherfucker.
So all this is fanboy's fault you mean?
 

CobraXT

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Apr 24, 2020
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PS5 is doing very low quality limited shader based RT , i don't understand why sony fans are even talking about this , RT in AMD cards will rely on the CUs there is no special silicon for it so we better of without it
 
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Papacheeks

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Jan 30, 2013
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PS5 is doing very low quality limited shader based RT , i don't understand why sony fans are even talking about this , RT in AMD cards will rely on the CUs there is no special selecon for it so we better of without it
RT takes more dedicated hardware, you can do it via software based. But as we've seen better results can be had with dedicated cu's for RT. Sony isn't focusing a lot of their talk to just RT, fastest console bs. They built a system that is balanced. It' not going to blow you away with it's ray tracing abilities, but it's going to give you a big leap in IQ, but also bigger changes in how you play the game from instant load times, to games themselves being designed around the ssd, and user interface with the game via dual sense.

MS is going for high fps, high res gaming with the ability to play your entire library.

Which is compelling.

I just think PS5 is a more balanced system. Obviously its not pushing pixels the hardest, but I would rather have instant reload into a level than just having it look prettier.
 

The Alien

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Feb 10, 2018
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How can you fuck up to have no first party launch games and then the biggest new gimmick isn't working. I have no clue how they could manage this...
Could have something to do with a global pandemic....could also have something to do with one console being more capable at running "gimmicks" than another. 😉
 

Papacheeks

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Could have something to do with a global pandemic....could also have something to do with one console being more capable at running "gimmicks" than another. 😉
Or could be they literally just bought and built a stable of studios less than 2 years ago from scratch?

Shit takes time.

I mean horizon including concept took 6 years.
 
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godhandiscen

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I don’t really mind tbh. I am not defending Microsoft here, but I am already upset at them for a lackluster launch lineup and if some titles had ray tracing, it wouldn’t make a difference either way.
 
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SlimySnake

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SlimySnake SlimySnake exhibit A of what u were describing 👀😂😂
its weird because MS is using the same architecture.

PS5 is doing very low quality limited shader based RT , i don't understand why sony fans are even talking about this , RT in AMD cards will rely on the CUs there is no special silicon for it so we better of without it
there is a difference between shader based RT and what the RDNA 2.0 cards are doing. You are right about RT relying on CUs but wrong about why. There IS dedicated hardware in the CUs for ray tracing, and no it's not the shader processors. CUs are made up of shader processors AND Texture Mapping Units. RT intersection engines are built into the texture mapping units which means the shader processors are free to do their work. it does come at the expense of whatever work the TMUs were doing, but thats also true of nvidia's solution. XSX has more CUs which means more TMUs which means more RT hardware, so it should in theory have better ray tracing.

But that doesnt mean ps5 is doing low quality shader based RT nor does it mean that the AMD cards dont have any special silicon for it.
 

Shmunter

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Been saying for awhile now, RT is just more work for devs while they still need to support conventional non-RT global illumination solutions for some builds. Until its the bedrock, standard solution for everything its just an effect that can be turned on or off without real impact.
All true. Next gen should have been shining beacon in standardizing it. Realities of last gen and cheap PC's would still be an anchor - but lessened over time. But Xss comes along and *poof* it all goes for an entire gen.
 
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OSC

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XSX has more CUs which means more TMUs which means more RT hardware, so it should in theory have better ray tracing.
Probably true, unless sony did something custom with ray tracing, like the rumors of powervr tech.
 

Neo_game

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Mar 19, 2020
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I think the reason is the Xbox SS. They did not even bother to show Minecraft RT tech demo. Their marketing is more into BC and resolution, fps. I do not think there will be any difference in RT between PS5 and SX. Devs will just scale the resolution accordingly. Most games are using dynamic 4K already. Only way to have decent RT would be to run games on 1080p or 1440P and SS would come to 720P or 900P. Which obviously they do not want to do it.
 
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sn0man

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All true. Next gen should have been shining beacon in standardizing it. Realities of last gen and cheap PC's would still be an anchor - but lessened over time. But Xss comes along and *poof* it all goes for an entire gen.
This is possibly a reality for the multiplatform games, but Sony showed last generation that we can expect some exclusives throughout the ps5 life that will use the power of the platform. Spiderman MM is already showing off RT (just one next gen feature). I think PS5 will show some cool stuff in a couple years and ambitious 3rd parties will want to try their hand at that stuff as well.
 
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Kumomeme

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only watch dog legion? and thats third party

probably they should try buy ubisoft instead of bethesda to cover their launch hole lol
 
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itsjustJEFF

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Aren't there 3rd party games with RT? Is this person just asking about 1st party games? I mean, it's clearly powerful enough to do it.
 
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sinnergy

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I love how this whole "both" console narrative its being used by the usual suspects, first was used to dismiss the lack of launch games with the "both consoles" argument, now its with with rt, sorry dude, but one system its launching with games and rt, so you arent fooling anyone
Thats because one was scheduled to launch in 2019, games and sdk are more mature. According to rumors .
 
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M1chl

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Can imagine implementing raytracing on Xbox is not trivial compared to PS5. On PS5 you build once, on XsX you need to consider 4tf limitations and possibly implement 2 seperate solutions where performance is not adequate. Yes scalability etc, but that scalability takes extra work on the platform. Would not be surprising if many Xbox devs may build lowest common denominator then just increase LOD and Res sliders, done.

This is not a controversial take on matters, simple realities.
Makes me roll with my eyes, two fucking platform, such a massive deal. Wonder what PC devs has to endure. Not the mention someone like Dirt5 devs, this two platform shit is highly overblown.
 
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Garani

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Just throw this up as a demo

That shit was the deal! I had an Amiga from 1987 'till 1994 and it was a wonder to play and work with.

Oh heavens no. What will my xbot fan boy ass ever doooooo. Please help me Sony bots...... who fucking cares lol? Is Ray tracing puddles really gonna make a huge difference. Probably not
Is Ray Tracing really such a big deal? In fast paced games like COD, are you going to be more worried about real time reflections or just being competitive?
Nobody really cares about Ray tracing. Let's be honest. It's just something gamers are latching to this gen because there ain't much else.
No, its honestly not worth it considering how much it impacts performance. But hey what do i know, i have a pc with a 480 not really woried about graphics.
Said the fox to the grapes. You do get it that this is basically whining, don't you? I would get you if RT was forced and impacted performance, but since we are getting 4K60 modes, I would call RT a nice fidelity feature that a consumer can choose.

Sony isn't focusing a lot of their talk to just RT, fastest console bs. They built a system that is balanced.[...]

MS is going for high fps, high res gaming with the ability to play your entire library.

Which is compelling.

I just think PS5 is a more balanced system. Obviously its not pushing pixels the hardest, but I would rather have instant reload into a level than just having it look prettier.
Sorry for cutting the quote, but I think I got the main points. Apologies if I didn't.

1) I agree that Sony went for a more balanced approach and isn't pushing pixels the hardest. It IS a 10.3TFlops machine, by numbers not the fastest.
2) MS if going for the "most power", but at the moment doesn't seem able to capitalise on that and deliver. Personally I don't agree with the statement about playing the entire library. It's not there yet, I doubt that it will ever be.

And finally, we go back to Cerny's talk: fast vs numbers. Sony wanted less CUs at a faster frequency to be able to always fed them. MS went with CU count hoping to better distribute workload. I am sure that were MS able to clock as high as Sony, they would not have any computing issues.
 

MrFunSocks

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It's amazing that when I click Show ignored content on the list of threads a whole bunch of FUD anti-xbox threads appear by people that clearly are never going to buy an xbox lol. This thread, as usual, is embarrassing for OP.
 

Hix

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How would he be able to confirm it. What's his source?
1. His eyes.

2. Ubisoft.

3. Microsoft.

All three say Ray Tracing on WD: Legion.

What's really impressive here is we're seeing this on the Xbox Series S. A machine able to output at 1440p, while doing things like RT and auto-HDR, on next gen games, with the usual Xbox benefits like Game Pass, for £249 (cheaper than a Switch) is remarkable.
 

FranXico

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I hope Digital Foundry gets sued out of existence. I'm not entirely sure how this would happen, but I'm guessing it would be around libel, which aren't easy cases to win, but a man can dream.

Digital Foundry, you suck.
Interesting that this would only occur to some people now.
 
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