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Jordan Peterson update from his daughter Mikhaila: He was very sick(almost died), but he's finally doing better

OmegaSupreme

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Yeah that sure sounds like he's only suggesting you do it sometimes.

And seriously you calling me out for paraphrasing him as saying "sometimes" when you claimed the man endorsed it based on what he said? What a load of crap. That is not an endorsement.. the mere fact he said he took tons of supplements even on it's own isn't an endorsement of the diet. It goes against the entire mantra of it.
He did it for a month. Suggested that a person could do it six days a week. It sounds like an endorsement to me. Maybe not a "stop what you're doing now" and get on this but an endorsement none the less. Here's a question. Why do you care about his diet?
 
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Isn't that the same case with veganism?
Carnivore dieters claim all you need is meat; so anyone taking supplements isn't actually believing the mantra of the diet.

Most vegans do it for ethical reasons; so no.. not really the same if they take B12. Carnivore diet is lacking literally dozens of vitamins and minerals considered essential by dietitians.
 
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Now it's a care contest?

It's a conversation.. on a forum.. for conversations. Why do you care about it?

(I'm kidding, I couldn't care less why you care)

I find pseudo-science kind of hilarious.. along with the idiots who repeat it. That's the extent of my care.
 
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RealGassy

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I mean.. not really.

He endorsed maybe doing it sometimes (with a bunch of supplements.. since.. you know.. it's objectively not enough nutrients on it's own.)
That's because they only eat lean muscle.
If you eat all parts of the animal, eggs, fish, diary (butter, cheese, etc, if you can handle it), it has pretty much all the nutrients necessary.
I've done it for like a half year myself with no ill effect.

On the other hand, It didn't make any big difference either, there wasn't any big "oomph" from doing it.

Great for losing weight and having very low body fat percentage without ever going hungry or starving though. But it doesn't do much more than that as far as I can tell. Atleast not in the short term (< 6-7months I tried).
 
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That's because they only eat lean muscle.
If you eat all parts of the animal, eggs, fish, diary (butter, cheese, etc, if you can handle it), it has pretty much all the nutrients necessary.
I've done it for like a half year myself with no ill effect.

On the other hand, It didn't make any big difference either, there wasn't any big "oomph" from doing it.

Great for losing weight and having very low body fat percentage without ever going hungry or starving though. But it doesn't do much more than that as far as I can tell. Atleast not in the short term (< 6-7months I tried).
Nah Joe tried the carnivore diet.. not the even more idiotic beef only Lion Diet that Peterson's daughter grifts on.
 

RealGassy

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Nah Joe tried the carnivore diet.. not the even more idiotic beef only Lion Diet that Peterson's daughter grifts on.
You mean, he ate the animals in their entirety, the animal organs, the hearts, the livers, kidneys, the brains, the tongues, the tails and nails, etc?
Bone broth soups, etc?

Most carnivore people don't do this. And they just stick to couple of handpicked, basic things, like muscle, eggs, butter and stuff.

I did carnivore diet myself for 6 months with no trouble. Maybe that's not enough to deplete some mineral and run into some serious deficiency. But it seemed like a way more legitimate and sustainable thing than veganism could ever be (without supplementation).
 
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gunslikewhoa

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I mean.. not really.

He endorsed maybe doing it sometimes (with a bunch of supplements.. since.. you know.. it's objectively not enough nutrients on it's own.)
It is if done correctly. Grain fed steak, bacon, eggs, and butter isn't the proper path to longterm health, no matter what Shawn Baker says.
 
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I'll admit I haven't done enough research to comment on whether eating organ meats like that makes up for what lacks in just eating basic meat products.

But I also wouldn't believe every random web site out there that makes claims like "this thing contains ALL YOU need", it's the same crap any health craze does.

Eat a variety of foods.. it's both logical and backed by science... like decades of studies, or entire people's who have eaten similar foods for centuries with good health, etc. not "It's what cave men ate!"

And why does everyone bring up veganism here? lol
 
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gunslikewhoa

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I'll admit I haven't done enough research to comment on whether eating organ meats like that makes up for what lacks in just eating basic meat products.

But I also wouldn't believe every random web site out there that makes claims like "this thing contains ALL YOU need", it's the same crap any health craze does.

Eat a variety of foods.. it's both logical and backed by science... like decades of studies, or entire people's who have eaten similar foods for centuries with good health, etc. not "It's what cave men ate!"

And why does everyone bring up veganism here? lol
It's really not. I'm sorry but those piles of epidemiological studies are worth less than nothing. They are a major reason why we got in this mess in the first place. Bad science, bad conclusions.
 
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OmegaSupreme

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So because Jordan does the carnivore diet that discredits him? Is that what bringing this up is about?
 
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So because Jordan does the carnivore diet that discredits him? Is that what bringing this up is about?
I don't give a shit.. quit this hinting crap about why I think it's stupid.. why I think it's stupid has NOTHING to do with Jordan Peterson.

Why are you so hard up to defend it? Hmm? Hmmmmmmmmmm????????
 
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It's really not. I'm sorry but those piles of epidemiological studies are worth less than nothing. They are a major reason why we got in this mess in the first place. Bad science, bad conclusions.
Science changes over time; like the bad conclusions about fats/cholesterol.

That doesn't mean eating only meat products suddenly makes more sense.

If you guys want to experiment on yourselves, be my guest. If you do it specifically because some grifter sells it to you, then I feel kind of bad for you.
 
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Gashtronomy

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ITT: a reflection of the sad state of affairs we live in; with us, or against us is the mantra.

I cannot fathom, for even a second, where the hate comes from with JP. He's a dude who says stuff, either you like it, listen to it and reflect on it, or you don't and move on.

What else is there?
 

OmegaSupreme

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I don't give a shit.. quit this hinting crap about why I think it's stupid.. why I think it's stupid has NOTHING to do with Jordan Peterson.

Why are you so hard up to defend it? Hmm? Hmmmmmmmmmm????????
Why so angry? Let me guess you're a vegan? And why bring it up in a Jordan Peterson thread then?
 
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Why so angry? Let me guess you're a vegan? And why bring it up in a Jordan Peterson thread then?
I'm not a vegan; I eat tons of meat... and I didn't bring it up.

And I'm angry because I've barely slept in days and my head hurts lol.. and you keep asking me "why?" and I keep telling you to stop asking because there is no reason why.. take my words at face value and quit hinting that I have some ulterior motive here. Same with this "let me guess? are you a vegan?" crap.
 
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OmegaSupreme

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I'm not a vegan; I eat tons of meat... and I didn't bring it up.

And I'm angry because I've barely slept in days and my head hurts lol.. and you keep asking me "why?" and I keep telling you to stop asking because there is no reason why.. take my words at face value and quit hinting that I have some ulterior motive here. Same with this "let me guess? are you a vegan?" crap.
Fair enough. It just seemed odd to talk about it in a thread that has nothing to do with it other than the subject of the thread chooses to do it. Get some sleep man. I don't wish to quarrel with you.
 
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gunslikewhoa

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Science changes over time; like the bad conclusions about fats/cholesterol.

That doesn't mean eating only meat products suddenly makes more sense.

If you guys want to experiment on yourselves, be my guest.
The Challenge of Reforming Nutritional Epidemiologic Research

A great example of a terrible study.

It's not just fats/cholesterol. There is a whole host of things that they have gotten upside down and backwards for decades. Calcium, sodium, fiber, etc. It doesn't help that big food has been behaving like big tobacco for decades as well. Nutritional science is corrupt.

This is a post of mine from 9/1/18, btw:


Yeah, I'd recommend staying away from them on any diet. I was just making the point that if it's meat and zero carbs, it falls under the umbrella.

I see you fast as well. I've been carnivore for about nine months and eating in a 2-4 hour window for about three. I haven't felt better in a very long time.

A college friend that I had lost touch with for about eight years was carnivore when we were in school. His only inspiration for doing it was Owsley. We all thought it was the dumbest thing we'd ever heard. I contacted him back when I was considering giving it a try. He's been going strong for about a decade now.

I'm not fully convinced one way or the other in regard to long term. There have been so many benefits, though, that I can't see myself stopping without some hard evidence that there are serious consequences. And I love the simplicity.
I'm not experimenting anymore than you or anyone else are. If you don't know exactly why you are putting something in your mouth, you owe it to yourself to do a little legwork. I think you'll be surprised what you find out there.

You're counting on following the advice of an establishment that has been proven to be wrong again and again and again to keep you healthy. I refuse to do that. People who appear to be perfectly healthy on the outside, following conventional wisdom and winding up with high blood pressure or diabetes out of nowhere, getting knees replaced in their fifties, having heart attacks and strokes in their sixties and seventies, dementia, etc.. No thank you. I advise everyone to take their heath into their own hands and do their own research. Read more than headlines. If someone takes the time to really do their homework, does so with an open mind, and comes out a vegan, more power to them. Hopefully, we can have a healthy debate that will probably go nowhere but ends without them hating me for eating their little cow friends.

If you do have any interest in understanding why so many people take issue with the scientific "consensus," you could start here: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Fat-Surprise-Butter-Healthy-ebook/dp/B00A25FDUA/ref=sr_1_2?crid=24A0JO5H3WCC6&keywords=nina+teicholz&qid=1581457057&sprefix=nina+te,aps,161&sr=8-2 That's a great book that does a pretty good job of covering the history of malfeasance in nutritional science by the government, big food, and big pharma. I can list other books on that topic as well, if you're interested. If you want to see some of the evidence backing an animal product-only diet, check out Vilhjalmur Steffansson or Weston A. Price. Skip The Carnivore Diet by Shawn Baker. I disagree pretty strongly with his simple "eat meat, drink water" mantra after transitioning away from that long ago myself, but he is doing good things with meatrx.com. I expect The Carnivore Code by Paul Saladino, which comes out in a week or two, will be excellent, though.
 
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SLoWMoTIoN

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You know he kinda reminded me of someone from somewhere then I remembered this.

It all makes sense now...
 

DragoonKain

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Mikhaila isn’t a grifter. She’s endorsing something that saved her life. She’s trying to help people. Is eating only meat generally healthy for most people? Likely not, but it works for her. When you have autoimmune diseases you have to understand that sometimes you have to do unconventional things that may not be beneficial to most, but for you it’s the lesser of evils. I have an autoimmune disease, I can speak to that first hand.

Many autoimmune and inflammatory illnesses can’t be explained even by doctors. They don’t know what caused the inflammation. So you find what works and stick with it. That is what she and Jordan had done. Joe tried it merely as an experiment and said he lost weight on it and he felt the best he’s felt in a while. But I don’t think he plans to do it long term.
 
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Not a grifter... just “endorses” (aka directly sells in multiple ways) her diet she invented.

Literally every grifter makes the same kind of claims. “Doing X changed my life, Pay me Y to find out more.” You are welcome to think she’s not, I consider you gullible.

Edit: the yearly price is only $680!
 
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DragoonKain

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Do you have any evidence that indicates she’s lying about what this diet has done for her? I don’t just go around calling people liars with no basis for doing so. She talked about what her health was like before and the issues with her legs and limbs and how she’s been the healthiest she has ever been since being on the diet.

I have no reason to not believe her.
 
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Do you have any evidence that indicates she’s lying about what this diet has done for her? I don’t just go around calling people liars with no basis for doing so. She talked about what her health was like before and the issues with her legs and limbs and how she’s been the healthiest she has ever been since being on the diet.

I have no reason to not believe her.
The diet allegedly cured her fathers depression; would you consider that evidence of a lie now?

It’s simply all so absurd to me it’s an obvious grift, I don’t need evidence that pastors curing people with their hands is Bs either.

She charges absurd amounts of money and has zero qualifications to do so... pretty basic stuff.
 
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buizel

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Do you have any evidence that indicates she’s lying about what this diet has done for her? I don’t just go around calling people liars with no basis for doing so. She talked about what her health was like before and the issues with her legs and limbs and how she’s been the healthiest she has ever been since being on the diet.

I have no reason to not believe her.
but this is the internet

everyones lying unless they have proof

and even then theyre probably lying
 
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TrainedRage

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Mikhaila isn’t a grifter. She’s endorsing something that saved her life. She’s trying to help people. Is eating only meat generally healthy for most people? Likely not, but it works for her. When you have autoimmune diseases you have to understand that sometimes you have to do unconventional things that may not be beneficial to most, but for you it’s the lesser of evils. I have an autoimmune disease, I can speak to that first hand.

Many autoimmune and inflammatory illnesses can’t be explained even by doctors. They don’t know what caused the inflammation. So you find what works and stick with it. That is what she and Jordan had done. Joe tried it merely as an experiment and said he lost weight on it and he felt the best he’s felt in a while. But I don’t think he plans to do it long term.
He also said it helped clear up his Vitiligo. :messenger_bicep:
 

DragoonKain

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The diet allegedly cured her fathers depression; would you consider that evidence of a lie now?

It’s simply all so absurd to me it’s an obvious grift, I don’t need evidence that pastors curing people with their hands is Bs either.

She charges absurd amounts of money and has zero qualifications to do so... pretty basic stuff.
Autoimmune diseases are basically the human body attacking itself. You are trying to use your own logic in a field that has so much cloudiness and grey area. I have an autoimmune disease. My eyes started itching like crazy. I was told it was allergies. Found out eventually it was chronic inflammation. Every doctor I've talked to and I've seen countless said there have been no known links to inflammatory diseases and the eye inflammation I've been dealing with, but it turns out my case is unique. If I told someone my intestinal disease was affecting my eyes, it sounds ridiculous to everyday folk. But it's what I have and one of the things I've been dealing with.

Point being, you can't base what you perceive as common sense as what is actually true. I know what autoimmune diseases can do to people. If Jordan's body was literally attacking itself with certain foods, I have no doubt that getting on a diet that significantly lowers that could also rid his depression or significantly decrease it.

Your attitude is quite cynical IMO. You're looking for the worst in someone.
 
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You didn’t answer my question. How do you feel knowing that they claimed a benzo addict had his depression cured by a diet?

And I’ve also been diagnosed with “non specific auto immune disease.” My eyes sometimes bulge out of my head among other things. Went through extensive allergy testing to confirm the vague annoying diagnoses.

She could have cured her inflammation and still be a grifter. Her pseudo-science Bs and the money she charges is enough for me.

Something she stopped eating could have cured her, that doesn’t mean “meat, salt, water, $85 a month!” Isn’t grifty shit.

And your attitude is gullible as hell; a total amateur charging absurd amounts of money for diet advice is not a grift to you. Face value zero other information needed really.
 
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gunslikewhoa

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Not a grifter... just “endorses” (aka directly sells in multiple ways) her diet she invented.

Literally every grifter makes the same kind of claims. “Doing X changed my life, Pay me Y to find out more.” You are welcome to think she’s not, I consider you gullible.
I've never looked at her site before today. Jesus. She's charging $80 a month for this:

This membership gives you access to:
  • A group of individuals going through similar health struggles to serve as a family-like support system and to help keep you accountable on your journey
  • Access to Lion Diet Veterans to grow alongside and learn from
  • Free and early bird access to Mikhaila’s course (coming in 2020)
  • Live weekly Q & A's with personal coaching
  • Live videos with meal ideas, updates and sneak peaks
  • Access to twice yearly in-person meet ups
  • Daily check-ins from Mikhaila via the group and mobile chat
  • Private Facebook group
  • Private fasting group
  • Private mobile texting group

Ads on your sites and social media, sell a book or cookbook, use affiliate codes, set up a Patreon, paid appearances, etc. There are plenty of ways to make money without gouging people. I could start a public Facebook group tomorrow and probably give away more and better info for free. The basic carnivore diet info required to get someone struggling with an autoimmune disorder on the right path is so straightforward that it's pretty disgusting to see someone charge that kind of money for it. For most people with autoimmune disorders, they don't even care about the science. They just want relief. For them, this simply serves as a strict elimination diet. They probably just want to be reassured that they won't die if they eat nothing but animal products for a couple months before starting to reintroduce other foods. I don't know what to think. I am a capitalist, but I don't agree with taking advantage of people's ignorance and/or suffering to this degree.
 
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DragoonKain

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He also said it helped clear up his Vitiligo. :messenger_bicep:
I deal with skin related issues, but mine is eczema. I've had breakouts where I've eaten the wrong stuff in the fast. If you've seen how bad some parts of my skin were years back you'd be horrified. It was really bad. I just think people don't understand autoimmune disorders and I don't blame them. It's a class of illnesses with so much yet to learn.
 
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DragoonKain

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You didn’t answer my question. How do you feel knowing that they claimed a benzo addict had his depression cured by a diet?

And I’ve also been diagnosed with “non specific auto immune disease.” My eyes sometimes bulge out of my head among other things. Went through extensive allergy testing to confirm the vague annoying diagnoses.

She could have cured her inflammation and still be a grifter. Her pseudo-science Bs and the money she charges is enough for me.

Something she stopped eating could have cured her, that doesn’t mean “meat, salt, water, $85 a month!” Isn’t grifty shit.

And your attitude is gullible as hell; a total amateur charging absurd amounts of money for diet advice is not a grift to you. Face value zero other information needed really.
I don't "feel" anything other than happiness for him if he's well. First of all, not sure what his addiction has to do with anything, it is separate. The benzos were more recent than the diet. He had been on the diet before his wife got sick and he got on benzos. If he says his diet got rid of his anxiety, good for him, who am I to judge?

I've never heard her say that this is something everyone needs. She presents it as something that helped her, something that can help others. And if she wants to make a living off of it, then what do I care? She's not putting a gun to anyone's head, no one is forced to buy her stuff, that's their choice. If they do so, the end result of that is their responsibility for better or for worse. I support anyone making money anyway they can. And she never once claimed to be an expert or a doctor.
 
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And she never once claimed to be an expert or a doctor.
Take one look at her Instagram then.

The rest of your post was basically that you don’t believe in the concept of a grifter, so not sure why you are even having this conversation. You support anyone making money any way they can, one of the more absurd sentences I’ve ever read on the internet.
 
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DragoonKain

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Take one look at her Instagram then.

The rest of your post was basically that you don’t believe in the concept of a grifter, so not sure why you are even having this conversation. You support anyone making money any way they can, one of the more absurd sentences I’ve bet read on the internet.
I understood the term "grifter" meaning someone who takes advantage of people. It's a negative term. She's done nothing wrong. No one is forced to buy her stuff. What's absurd about supporting someone earning a living? If she told people she guarantees it would change everyone's life and fix all their problems, then I would agree with you. She has not. I've heard her say plenty of times that the diet won't work for everyone.
 
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I understood the term "grifter" meaning someone who takes advantage of people. It's a negative term. She's done nothing wrong. No one is forced to buy her stuff. What's absurd about supporting someone earning a living? If she told people she guarantees it would change everyone's life and fix all their problems, then I would agree with you. She has not. I've heard her say plenty of times that the diet won't work for everyone.
You support literally every human being on the planet making money any way they can.

Think about that statement you made and get back to me lol

And your really should read her basic marketing materials dude.. “heal yourself with diet”... she makes a lot more claims than your posts would lead anyone to believe.
 
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DragoonKain

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You support literally every human being on the planet making money any way they can.

Think about that statement you made and get back to me lol
I’m talking legally obviously. I think you know what I meant. I figured you could deduce I wasn’t talking about something like supporting contract killings or illegal activity.
 

RealGassy

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I understood the term "grifter" meaning someone who takes advantage of people. It's a negative term. She's done nothing wrong. No one is forced to buy her stuff. What's absurd about supporting someone earning a living? If she told people she guarantees it would change everyone's life and fix all their problems, then I would agree with you. She has not. I've heard her say plenty of times that the diet won't work for everyone.
Come on dude, nobody is forcing to give grifters and scammers money.
They play on gullible people, that's their whole MO.

Username checks out.
:messenger_poop:
If you had tried carnivore diet, you'd know that you basically never get farts or bloating on a carnivore diet.
You get gasses only when you eat a diet with potatoes, beans, fiber and other stuff which relies on bacteria to digest it - e.g. your body can't digest it on it's own - so it's starts to ferment in your gut. (or if you drink milk and are lactose intolerant).

This basically never happens when eating meat or animal organs.
 
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I’m talking legally obviously. I think you know what I meant. I figured you could deduce I wasn’t talking about something like supporting contract killings or illegal activity.
“As long as it’s legal” is hardly some bar to be proud of; there are loads of legal but unethical ways to make money.

And reading your posts you’d think she makes zero claims about her diet... just go to her web site, the main marketing tag line is “heal yourself with diet.” She makes a lot of claims about nutrition and presents herself as an expert as well before “pay $85 a month to learn more!”
 
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OmegaSupreme

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“As long as it’s legal” is hardly some bar to be proud of; there are loads of legal but unethical ways to make money.

And reading your posts you’d think she makes zero claims about her diet... just go to her web site, the main marketing tag line is “heal yourself with diet.” She makes a lot of claims about nutrition and presents herself as an expert as well before “pay $85 a month to learn more!”
Perhaps you should make a carnivore diet thread then and dunk on it freely. After all by your own words this has nothing to do with Jordan Peterson.
 
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DragoonKain

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I don’t consider that unethical at all. Unless it is proven that she has lied about what this diet has done for her. If that is indeed legit, then this is all perfectly fine and I fully support her in doing that. What her site is doing is called marketing.

Pretty much every website that sells a service or product advertises it the same way.
 

Zefah

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Yeah that sure sounds like he's only suggesting you do it sometimes.

And seriously you calling me out for paraphrasing him as saying "sometimes" when you claimed the man endorsed it based on what he said? What a load of crap. That is not an endorsement.. the mere fact he said he took tons of supplements even on it's own isn't an endorsement of the diet. It goes against the entire mantra of it.
I've only ever seen him talk about it on Rogan's show where he very much did not endorse it and in fact did the opposite of recommending it to others.

only meat is savagery and will burn you out

trust me on this one
Totally depends on the person. My diet has been 90% or more meat (100% for extended durations) for almost a decade now and I haven't had an urge to change it at all.
 
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I don’t consider that unethical at all. Unless it is proven that she has lied about what this diet has done for her. If that is indeed legit, then this is all perfectly fine and I fully support her in doing that. What her site is doing is called marketing.

Pretty much every website that sells a service or product advertises it the same way.
I didn’t call that specifically unethical, that was just making fun of your absurd statement about your support of anyone making money.

The rest of my post was pointing out how you’ve been misleading about how she’s sold her diet.
 
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Perhaps you should make a carnivore diet thread then and dunk on it freely. After all by your own words this has nothing to do with Jordan Peterson.
I didn’t bring it up but I’ll drop it, getting a lot of quotes so hard not to derail but I see EviLore EviLore liking your post and I’ll consider that a warning.
 
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DragoonKain

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I didn’t call that specifically unethical, that was just making fun of your absurd statement about your support of anyone making money.

The rest of my post was pointing out how you’ve been misleading about how she’s sold her diet.
Again, I think what I meant was pretty obvious.

I’m not misleading how she sells her diet. I follow her on twitter and listen when she pops up on podcasts. I’ve been talking about that what she says on those mediums. I haven’t visited her website in ages until today. I don’t follow her on Instagram. I checked out both and saw nothing wrong with them. And that’s really the end of it for me.