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[Beer Monkey]

ATI could also do 8ch PCM?
Seems like ATI could win this round.

4800 series ATI cards can do 8ch PCM and it is part of the reference design so we may see it in all versions of the cards. Unfortunately the earlier reviews center around video benchmarks and we don't have a lot of details yet. I still have questions: What HDMI version? Is bitstream passthru (Dolby True HD, DTS Master Audio etc.) supported or do the apps have to decode to LPCM. Is support native to Catalyst or do you still have to use Realtek driver? And so on.

Still, even if it's HDMI 1.1 with no passthru and uses partner drivers, I'm there. As long as it is stable and reliable.

 

[Agent Ironside]

So basically get a 9800gx2 is what that review is saying.

 

[Fragamemnon]

HardOCP also checked in with reviews of the new parts and got similar results to some of the other sites linked here. They found the card capable and a good solution for those wanting top performance but are dead set on avoiding a two-card solution.

I don't think its a bad card or a failure by any means, just a bit pricey. That is not taking into account the ATi cards coming out, though.

 

[Vic]

So basically get a 9800gx2 is what that review is saying.

Although the 280 is more expensive that the 9800gx2, the single-chip alternative is far more efficient than a dual-chip one. What the reviews all seems to demonstrate is that both cards performance in games are way too similar. They are basically the same card performance wise with different technology...

 

[brain_stew]

EVGA GeForce GTX 280 1024MB SSC Edition £563.99 inc VAT

seriously almost fell off my chair laughing

Oh Nvidia who do you think we are? I understand why they're doing this, as the margins on the GTX 260 are likely razor thin, so I suppose they have to make profit from a wafer somewhere. Might as well prey on the stupid I guess but honestly, with ATI back in the game performance and price wise, do they honestly think they can get away with such ridiculous pricing?

 

[Fragamemnon]

Although the 280 is more expensive that the 9800gx2, the single-chip alternative is far more efficient than a dual-chip one. What the reviews all seems to demonstrate is that both cards performance in games are way too similar. They are basically the same card performance wise with different technology...

Well, the 280 GTX has 1GB of RAM to render the full resolution. The GX2 has 512MB on each card for SLI, which means that there is a lot of cloned memory and duplicate usage of RAM for textures going on, if I understand how that works correctly.

 

[brain_stew]

So a question before I buy this how much more powerful is it compared to the 8800 GT? I want oblivion to run at 60 FPS outside and right now I only get about 40.

Think we're talking about upto 40%, and given the insane overclocking headroom they're suppos to have, I reckon your goal will be quite acheivable.

Edit:

Jesus Christ, what were Nvidia thinking? Surely someone, somewhere in the company realised such a monolith of a die wasn't perhaps the best move? I totally understand the pricing now, the cost to fab and the yields on that thing must be atrocious, considering they haven't blown away any performance barriers its evidently not been worth it.

 

[bee]

Well, the 280 GTX has 1GB of RAM to render the full resolution. The GX2 has 512MB on each card for SLI, which means that there is a lot of cloned memory and duplicate usage of RAM for textures going on, if I understand how that works correctly.

yup thats right gx2= 512mb (usable), gtx 280 = 1gb

 

[Fragamemnon]

Jesus Christ, what were Nvidia thinking? Surely someone, somewhere in the company realised such a monolith of a die wasn't perhaps the best move? I totally understand the pricing now, the cost to fab and the yields on that thing must be atrocious, considering they haven't blown away any performance barriers its evidently not been worth it.

There's a market for this kind of product. Yes, the yields aren't going to be that great but in terms of single card performance they have made gains over their previous tech. This kind of stuff helps pay for the R&D which eventually becomes the 8800GT style "prosumer" budget cards that most people buy.

 

[brain_stew]

There's a market for this kind of product. Yes, the yields aren't going to be that great but in terms of single card performance they have made gains over their previous tech. This kind of stuff helps pay for the R&D which eventually becomes the 8800GT style "prosumer" budget cards that most people buy.

The thing is, the larger the die, the more difficult it becomes to get it to consumer friendly pricing. By that time, ATI will have been dominating the mainstream pricepoints with their new chips for quite a while. I'm talking mainly in terms of business sense here, sure its great that someone is trying to push technology as far forward as possible, but I doubt that's the main concern of Nvidia's shareholders.

With returns becoming smaller and smaller, and a world where efficiency and power draw are becoming big concerns for consumers, I honestly think Nvidia got it wrong this time. Still, if they can pull a new "8800GT" out of the bag a year down the line then all is not lost, afterall the G80 wasn't a particularly diminutive die itself.

 

[Fragamemnon]

The thing is, the larger the die, the more difficult it becomes to get it to consumer friendly pricing. By that time, ATI will have been dominating the mainstream pricepoints with their new chips for quite a while. I'm talking mainly in terms of business sense here, sure its great that someone is trying to push technology as far forward as possible, but I doubt that's the main concern of Nvidia's shareholders.

I'm not saying nVidia didn't get outflanked by ATi at the average consumer end (it looks like they did this time, we'll know for sure soon), just stating that nVidia's gone the route of expensive boutique card to affordable, powerful midrange card using much of the expensive card's tech innovations for the better part of a decade now, and it's worked very well for them.

 

[Broseybrose]

ive noticed an awful lot of speculation going on in this thread ;-)

 

[Beer Monkey]

I guess this is how you get 7.1 audio with video over HDMI on the new Geforce cards.

Auzentech has cut an exclusive deal to have soundcards that integrate internally with Nvidia cards. The video card passes a video signal to the Auzentech audio card, which multiplexes in 7.1 high def audio and passes the combined signal via HDMI 1.3 output. The cards use Creative Labs chipsets so these are basically HDMI X-fi cards.

Ick.

 

[Beer Monkey]

Buy.com 4850 update: card now shows as 'unavailable from mfg', at least some cards have shipped, others say 'in the shipping process'. Anybody get one shipped here?

 

[Lince]

some quick questions for hopefully quick replies

- 4850 > 8800 GT confirmed ?
- 4850 power consumption / noise < 8800 GT confirmed ?
- 4850 compatible with PCIe 1.0 confirmed ?

God bless you all tech heads.

 

[zoku88]

some quick questions for hopefully quick replies

- 4850 > 8800 GT confirmed ? yes
- 4850 power consumption / noise < 8800 GT confirmed ? not sure
- 4850 compatible with PCIe 1.0 confirmed ? it's supposed to be like all PCIe 2.0 cards, but I guess the 8800GT had problems, didn't it

God bless you all tech heads.

.

 

[AlexMogil]

Buy.com 4850 update: card now shows as 'unavailable from mfg', at least some cards have shipped, others say 'in the shipping process'. Anybody get one shipped here?

sku: 208177814
description: Radeon 4850 512MB GDDR3 PCIe
qty: 1
ship date: 6/16/2008

 

[Cheeto]

Buy.com 4850 update: card now shows as 'unavailable from mfg', at least some cards have shipped, others say 'in the shipping process'. Anybody get one shipped here?

So were they selling it early? What's the retail date?

 

[Chiggs]

some quick questions for hopefully quick replies

- 4850 > 8800 GT confirmed ?
- 4850 power consumption / noise < 8800 GT confirmed ?
- 4850 compatible with PCIe 1.0 confirmed ?

God bless you all tech heads.

1. Yes.
2. Not sure.
3. Of course. It will be a long time before you see cards the require PCIE 2.0.

 

[AlexMogil]

So were they selling it early? What's the retail date?

I thought it was next week, but I am getting mine FedEx tomorrow.

 

[Agent Ironside]

Although disappointing, makes me feel good I got this 8800GTS 512mb card, looks like its going to last me a good while.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I suspect 4850 will be very quiet. If I can hear mine, I'm putting an Accelero (passive, actually cools more than stock active coolers) on it (also works on 8800GT).

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

some quick questions for hopefully quick replies

- 4850 > 8800 GT confirmed ?
- 4850 power consumption / noise < 8800 GT confirmed ?
- 4850 compatible with PCIe 1.0 confirmed ?

God bless you all tech heads.

1. yes
2. not sure but uses 1 6x PCIe connector like the 8800GT
3. yes

 

[bill0527]

Buy.com 4850 update: card now shows as 'unavailable from mfg', at least some cards have shipped, others say 'in the shipping process'. Anybody get one shipped here?

Mine still says, "In the Shipping Process", which according to their definition means its being picked from the shelves and packed for shipping. Its supposed to be the last step before 'shipped'. I'm going to be so pissed if my order gets cancelled. They've already charged my card, so I hope I'm ok.

 

[camineet]

Beyond3D - NVIDIA GT200 GPU and Architecture Analysis

Introduction
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/1

NVIDIA GT200 Overview
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/2

GT200: The Shading Core
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/3

GT200: Sampling and the ROP
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/4

GT200: General Architecture Notes
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/5

GT200: Thoughts on positioning and the NVIO Display Pipe
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/6

Physicals and GeForce GTX 200 Products
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/7

Architecture Summary
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/51/8


It seems to me that while GT200 is a new GPU compared to G80 / G92, the GT200 is not a totally new generation architecture. It's still DX10.0 & Shader Model 4. It still uses the basic pieces introduced in G80. Though GT200 is a monster of an upgrade in raw power.

 

[Kadey]

So basically I should keep my GX2.

 

[Zzoram]

So it's all but confirmed now, HD4850 is the new 8800GT.

After nVidia sucker punched ATI with a super cheap and powerful card, why did they go back to the old business model of releasing super expensive cards nobody will buy? The ~$200 super card is such a sweet spot for enthusiasts, and ATI clued in and is giving us the HD4850 to replace the 8800GT.

 

[artist]

So it's all but confirmed now, HD4850 is the new 8800GT.

After nVidia sucker punched ATI with a super cheap and powerful card, why did they go back to the old business model of releasing super expensive cards nobody will buy? The ~$200 super card is such a sweet spot for enthusiasts, and ATI clued in and is giving us the HD4850 to replace the 8800GT.

Actually, much of the credit for 8800GT's success or popularity goes to AMD. Nvidia was all set on launching the thing with 2 clusters disabled (like the 320MB GTS) but they had to go with 7 clusters for that added lead over 3870. Ultimately it was a good fight, AMD had much smaller chips which enabled them to undercut Nvidia, eventually Nvidia had to drop prices. In the end, it was win-win for us consumers. Competition is really a good thing.

 

[Zzoram]

Actually, much of the credit for 8800GT's success or popularity goes to AMD. Nvidia was all set on launching the thing with 2 clusters disabled (like the 320MB GTS) but they had to go with 7 clusters for that added lead over 3870. Ultimately it was a good fight, AMD had much smaller chips which enabled them to undercut Nvidia, eventually Nvidia had to drop prices. In the end, it was win-win for us consumers. Competition is really a good thing.

Well, all that matters is the 8800GT sold like gangbusters because like all the reviews were saying, "It's the only card that matters". The HD4850 will probably take that title away from it, by being the new super $200 card that beats $600 cards in crossfire.

 

[Monsterland]

Does anyone know when we can expect to see the ati card reviews?

 

[Ravenn17]

Is 600 Watts good enough if I wanted to do crossfire with two 4850's down the road? (1 HDD, E8400).

 

[JoeFu]

Does anyone know when we can expect to see the ati card reviews?

I really want to see how the 4850 and 4870 perform. Right now I use a x1950xt and I really feel like upgrading. Not sure if I want to spend the extra on the 4870 though.

 

[brain_stew]

Is 600 Watts good enough if I wanted to do crossfire with two 4850's down the road? (1 HDD, E8400).

Its the amount of amps on the 18V rail you really need to look out for but regardless power requirements are usually overstated and so long as its a decent name brand PSU, you should have no problems I'd imagine.

I really want to see how the 4850 and 4870 perform. Right now I use a x1950xt and I really feel like upgrading. Not sure if I want to spend the extra on the 4870 though.

What resolution do you game at? Above 1680x1050 then the extra bandwidth from the GDDR5 will likely prove very useful, but anything equal to, or lower than that res, then the 4850 will likely lap up anything you throw at it unless you're an insane IQ whore.

Either way it will be a very nice upgrade, especially considering the cost.

 

[Proelite]

Are the ATI drivers still troublesome? My friend said that price/performance is meaningless when your driver doesn't work.

 

[Tenacious-V]

Its the amount of amps on the 18V rail you really need to look out for but regardless power requirements are usually overstated and so long as its a decent name brand PSU, you should have no problems I'd imagine.

Just a quick correction, it's the 12V rail you are looking at.

 

[zoku88]

Are the ATI drivers still troublesome? My friend said that price/performance is meaningless when your driver doesn't work.

In my experience, they've been better than NV's...

 

[Dizzan]

This is probably as good a place as any to ask a question. I'm a PC gaming noob but Im considering a gaming laptop in the next few months. I would like to play Crysis and also make the most out of Spore.

I'm looking at a C2D T8300 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb DDR2 RAM and a Geforce GO9500 512MB.

Is this any good?? What sort of performance will I get out ofgames like Crysis, Bioshock and TF2?

Thanks for any help

 

[zoku88]

This is probably as good a place as any to ask a question. I'm a PC gaming noob but Im considering a gaming laptop in the next few months. I would like to play Crysis and also make the most out of Spore.

I'm looking at a C2D T8300 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb DDR2 RAM and a Geforce GO9500 512MB.

Is this any good?? What sort of performance will I get out ofgames like Crysis, Bioshock and TF2?

Thanks for any help

That's more or less midrange. The 9500M is more or less a die shrink of the 8600M GT. Which means, pretty midrange performance.

For gaming, it's best to just get some moderately cheap laptop and then build a gaming desktop.

 

[Technosteve]

so what this is telling me is to buy two 8800 GT's or wait to see the ati card...... damn you nvidia why can't you show me your true power!!!

 

[Dizzan]

That's more or less midrange. The 9500M is more or less a die shrink of the 8600M GT. Which means, pretty midrange performance.

For gaming, it's best to just get some moderately cheap laptop and then build a gaming desktop.

Ok thanks for the tips. I really have very little knowledge on the subject.

Without spending a fortune, what would you suggest? It has to be a laptop also, due to uni.

 

[godhandiscen]

So basically get a 9800gx2 is what that review is saying.

No, get a 4850. Two of them in Crossfire PWN a GTX280.

so what this is telling me is to buy two 8800 GT's or wait to see the ati card...... damn you nvidia why can't you show me your true power!!!

Get a 4850 and then upgrade to Crossfire to have a better performance over a GTX280. Its very clear by now Nvidia dropped the ball, the leaked benchmarks are all confirmed by now on the Nvidia side and 4850 side. I am just waiting for the first 4850 Crossfire review to see how awesome it is, not wheter its awesome or not, but how much awesomeness you are getting.

Ok thanks for the tips. I really have very little knowledge on the subject.

Without spending a fortune, what would you suggest? It has to be a laptop also, due to uni.

I dont know how much they cost, but supposedly the AMD Puma laptops are supposed to have the best graphics/game performance. Dont know if they are out already, but they were already announced.

 

[zoku88]

Ok thanks for the tips. I really have very little knowledge on the subject.

Without spending a fortune, what would you suggest? It has to be a laptop also, due to uni.

Well, if you have to get a laptop and you're pretty sure you won't be able to buy a desktop later, than the laptop you picked is fine. It's prolly a 15.4" judging by the specs, right, so it should be portable enough.

(As far as recommendations, I usually recommend Asus notebooks.)

 

[avaya]

Nvidia really fucking failed.

GTX280 is a total joke.

 

[godhandiscen]

Nvidia really fucking failed.

GTX280 is a total joke.

So sir... when am I going to play with your delicious 4870X2 in Crossfire? After the GTX280 reviews, the 4870X2 is obviously going for $700. Nvidia fucking failed me! :lol

 

[Cheeto]

No, get a 4850. Two of them in Crossfire PWN a GTX280.

Do we have those benchmarks?

Get a 4850 and then upgrade to Crossfire to have a better performance over a GTX280. Its very clear by now Nvidia dropped the ball, the leaked benchmarks are all confirmed by now on the Nvidia side and 4850 side. I am just waiting for the first 4850 Crossfire review to see how awesome it is, not wheter its awesome or not, but how much awesomeness you are getting.

You don't see many Core2 motherboards supporting Crossfire. So Crossfire isn't a viable option for most people with Core2 desktops, which is...most people.

 

[godhandiscen]

Do we have those benchmarks?

You don't see many Core2 motherboards supporting Crossfire. So Crossfire isn't a viable option for most people with Core2 desktops, which is...most people.

I didn't knwo this. Should have assumed it though since AMD owns ATI.
BTW, the Crossfire benhcmarks are under NDA still, but everybody who has reviewed them is already confirming this, including ORB in from xtreme gaming. Check the previous page of this thread to see one of the comments made by one reviewer.

 

[DonasaurusRex]

Well the time for upgrades have finally come, im excited and while the new nvidia cards show great brute strength...its a hard sell when the gx2 is cheaper and is in teh same performance range if not better in some cases. For ease of use the 280 and 260 cant be beat, dont forget dual cards need even more driver work and sli profiles etc etc. Review websites have those in spades cause its their job/hobby the avg user may not want the hassle.

That said i dont see a reason to buy when next week the new radeons will come out and everything but the 4000 x2's will be on the table. Right now im leaning towards ati this round though for the price and...well pure size of that new nvidia core people were probably wanting it to obliterate everything on the market at every resolution. And for that price perhaps it should but it doesnt. However it is a huge leap over single card solutions in most games unless its an older engine that even last gens gpu's could run no problem.

 

[The Crimson Kid]

I have a quick question, which might be kinda stupid, but here goes. Would my motherboard support a HD 4850 and a relatively new CPU (yet to be decided on)?My motherboard.

I haven't upgraded in a long while, and if my motherboard can't support these new upgrades, I might as well build a new computer.

Specs:
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra ( I told you it was a while)
2 GB RAM
Intel Pentium 4 3.6 Ghz (1 core, 2 threads)
Creative 2 ZS sound card
motherboard listed above

Thanks.

 

[MaritalWheat]

I have a quick question, which might be kinda stupid, but here goes. Would my motherboard support a HD 4850 and a relatively new CPU (yet to be decided on)?My motherboard.

I haven't upgraded in a long while, and if my motherboard can't support these new upgrades, I might as well build a new computer.

Specs:
Nvidia GeForce 6800 Ultra ( I told you it was a while)
2 GB RAM
Intel Pentium 4 3.6 Ghz (1 core, 2 threads)
Creative 2 ZS sound card
motherboard listed above

Thanks.

You can get the 4850, you've got a PCIe slot.

 

[godhandiscen]

You can get the 4850, you've got a PCIe slot.

Whats the difference between PCI-E and PCI-E 2.0?