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June 2008: Battleground for PC Graphics - Geforce GTX 200 v Radeon HD 4800

It's R700 / 4870X2 for me, all the way.

Unless Nvidia quickly comes out with a revised GTX 280 Ultra with much better drivers that offer a very significant improvement in performance. Otherwise GTX 280 looks like a complete waste of monies.
 
camineet said:
It's R700 / 4870X2 for me, all the way.

Unless Nvidia quickly comes out with a revised GTX 280 Ultra with much better drivers that offer a very significant improvement in performance. Otherwise GTX 280 looks like a complete waste of monies.
Click to expand...
Without official third party benchmarks from a reliable source its hard to tell. However, if what has been shown is true, then "4870X2 am king" no question.
 
godhandiscen said:
Without official third party benchmarks from a reliable source its hard to tell. However, if what has been shown is true, then "4870X2 am king" no question.
Click to expand...
when exactly is the 4870X2 coming out? This month? Next month?
 
Tenacious-V said:
August I believe
Click to expand...

August? Damn I don't wanna wait that long.

Should I just get a 4870 as a placeholder until the 4870x2?
 
godhandiscen said:
I dont get it, everybody and his mother has been passing around the rumor that 2 4850s will work better than a GTX280, how can you recommend that card? I would say WAIT for real benchmarks.
Click to expand...

Like the others, yeah, isamu wants it next month for his build and the 4870X2 cards aren't out till August. Yeah, I've said to wait for benchmarks but I think out of the ones released this/next month, the GTX280 is the most powerful from the knowledge we know to date.
 
Pachael said:
Like the others, yeah, isamu wants it next month for his build and the 4870X2 cards aren't out till August. Yeah, I've said to wait for benchmarks but I think out of the ones released this/next month, the GTX280 is the most powerful from the knowledge we know to date.
Click to expand...
You are recommending GTX280 for a 720p resolution? Isnt that a bit overkill? :lol
 
Pachael said:
Like the others, yeah, isamu wants it next month for his build and the 4870X2 cards aren't out till August. Yeah, I've said to wait for benchmarks but I think out of the ones released this/next month, the GTX280 is the most powerful from the knowledge we know to date.
Click to expand...

And look at the price that comes along with it.
gtx200-series-price.jpg


Just going on price alone, 2 x 4850s is faster than a gtx280 and would be $100+ cheaper.
 
Real talk: it is dumb to be a fanboy of videocards. They all play the same games, there's no reason to ever buy or support anything but the fastest, cheapest solution.

But honestly, the idea of ATI crawling out of the pit they've been in for the last five years gets my fanboy gland pumping :lol
 
Tenacious-V said:
2 x 4850s is faster than a gtx280
Click to expand...
I very much doubt that this will be the case in most games. And that's even without accounting for the microstuttering problems of multi-gpu setups.
 
irfan said:
You are recommending GTX280 for a 720p resolution? Isnt that a bit overkill? :lol
Click to expand...

Well, money's not a problem, right? ;p

Anyway that slide is outdated, there's already been a pricedrop (which probably means the ATI cards are more competitive than first thought).
 
Bulla564 said:
My PC (with fried MB was running a ati 9800 pro). I will build my next PC souped up with a GTX280.

I'm hoping to notice a slight bump in graphics.
Click to expand...
O_o
Outdoor Miner said:
That right there tells you more than any benchmark could.
Click to expand...

Competition is a wonderful thing.
 
It looks like nvidia will be the odd man out this round.

AMD/ATi to use Havok for physics.
http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-37907-135.html

I guess it doesn't really matter than nvidia bought up PhysX, as both Intel and AMD will be using Havok for both their CPUs, and AMD for CPU/GPU. If it becomes the standard, CUDA may not become all that widespread and most games are going to have a bigger advantage towards ATi.

Snip from the link.

So, why Havok? Cheng reasoned that Havok’s technology and toolset have been widely accepted by developers and are considered to be “very mature”. He also noted that Havok follows AMD’s open approach philosophy. The executive indicated that Nvidia’s PhysX strategy does not match AMD’s strategy and that the company does not believe in forcing people to use a particular API. While Cheng said that AMD is aligned with Havok at this time, he did not want “exclude” a possible future announcement regarding PhysX. No such announcement is currently planned, we were told.
Click to expand...

While we are still a bit dazzled by the fact that AMD decided to go with an Intel-owned physics engine (and we are pretty sure that some people at Intel may be a bit surprised as well), Cheng stressed that Havok remains “independent” from Intel. Also, while we do not have any confirmation for this speculation, this relationship appears to be driven by the ATI team, which anyway has been working with Intel not just pre-AMD, but also recently on graphics products for Montevina (Centrino 2) notebooks as well as Crossfire X solutions. So this relationship may not be as awkward as it first sounds after all.
Click to expand...
 
Tenacious-V said:
While we are still a bit dazzled by the fact that AMD decided to go with an Intel-owned physics engine (and we are pretty sure that some people at Intel may be a bit surprised as well), Cheng stressed that Havok remains “independent” from Intel. Also, while we do not have any confirmation for this speculation, this relationship appears to be driven by the ATI team, which anyway has been working with Intel not just pre-AMD, but also recently on graphics products for Montevina (Centrino 2) notebooks as well as Crossfire X solutions. So this relationship may not be as awkward as it first sounds after all.
Click to expand...
That's quite surprising. Thought that ATi ended all ties with Intel after their purchase by AMD.
 
Vic said:
That's quite surprising. Thought that ATi ended all ties with Intel after their purchase by AMD.
Click to expand...
I see this more of a joined effort to bring down Nvidia. Intel wants to clear the space.
 
godhandiscen said:
I see this more of a joined effort to bring down Nvidia. Intel wants to clear the space.
Click to expand...
I doubt that such "hidden" agenda exist.
 
The other thing you have to remember about prices: If the performance/price ratio is fantastic and the price friendly, there's gonna be an immediate markup online. You better buy as soon as they go online, because otherwise the automated computers will start jacking up the prices in accordance with demand. Happened with the last couple Intel CPUs and the 8800GTs. Within 10 minutes, prices were marked up fairly good.
 
Vic said:
I doubt that such "hidden" agenda exist.
Click to expand...
I was just throwing BS, but it wouldnt surprise me. Also, besides the fact that the computations are optimized for physics calculations in general, how does this make the Physics support not API specific, or different from Nvidia?
 
I'm thinking it's more of a "we don't feel like coming up with our on physics API that no one will use" sort of thing than "we want to take down Nvidia" thing...
 
ATi got their shit together price/performance wise since the 2400/2600 cards. They've learned a lot of good thing from it and they reapplied the strategy with the 3000 series and it seems to be a winner once again with the 4000 series.
 
zoku88 said:
I'm thinking it's more of a "we don't feel like coming up with our on physics API that no one will use" sort of thing than "we want to take down Nvidia" thing...
Click to expand...

Not only that but it's better to team up with Intel in this case. AMD-ATi wants to keep as much of an open standard as possible. If CUDA took off, ATi would be screwed as CUDA is proprietary. At least this way, if Havok becomes the standard, which it is already being utilized quite a bit already, then it may just force nvidia to start using it. That's good for everyone.

We can also be damn sure that once Intels Larabee comes out, it will be using Havok as well.

I think this is just a way to force nvidia to ditch their millions spent on PhysX/CUDA and join the club. I mean they already fuck around with everything under TWIMTBP. Making games run worse, or intentionally forcing companies to bork code to their liking (Assassins Creed).
 
If those scores are legit, AMD is going to put the hurt on Nvidia in this round.

By default, R700/4870x2 benchmarks should be something to look forward to. AMD should just release a 4850x2 SKU to put Nvidia in an uncomfortable position.

We just need game benchmarks now...
 
godhandiscen said:
Yep, 2x4850 > GTX280. More evidence.

It was meant to cost $350, but seeing its so powerful now, retailers may increase the price.
Click to expand...

And so the X2 is probably around $500 or more?

huacst21 said:
By default, R700/4870x2 benchmarks should be something to look forward to. AMD should just release a 4850x2 SKU to put Nvidia in an uncomfortable position.
Click to expand...

I like this idea.
 
Chiggs said:
And so the X2 is probably around $500 or more?



I like this idea.
Click to expand...
I wish. The 4870X2 was always meant to be in the $600 range, now if its the absolute winner and by a wide margin, the price could sky rocket.
 
godhandiscen said:
I wish. The 4870X2 was always meant to be in the $600 range, now if its the absolute winner and by a wide margin, the price could sky rocket.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it probably will. I'm interested in the 4870, but I'm not spending over $300.00. Hopefully, Nvidia starts dropping prices left and right, forcing ATI's hand on this.
 
Chiggs said:
Yeah, it probably will. I'm interested in the 4870, but I'm not spending over $300.00. Hopefully, Nvidia starts dropping prices left and right, forcing ATI's hand on this.
Click to expand...
Nvidia's chips are bigger, the costs of productions are already confirmed to be more expensive. If Nvidia drops its prices it could even be losing money. Chances are ATI will jack up its prices, not the other way around.
 
godhandiscen said:
I wish. The 4870X2 was always meant to be in the $600 range, now if its the absolute winner and by a wide margin, the price could sky rocket.
Click to expand...

It was originally targetted at $500, no? I'm sure I remember the consensus being that it was expected to hit at a lower price than the GTX 280 but given recent developments, yeah, its fair to say, that may not happen.
 
brain_stew said:
It was originally targetted at $500, no? I'm sure I remember the consensus being that it was expected to hit at a lower price than the GTX 280 but given recent developments, yeah, its fair to say, that may not happen.
Click to expand...
Nope, it was always meant to be above $500 because the GTX280 was always meant to be above $600. Now, I am hoping that Nvidia did in fact lowered its prices to $500 for the GTX280 so that AMD doesn't go batshit insane with the greed.
29xfyqb.jpg


With the 4870 originally targeted at $350, a 4870X2 that is superior to 2x4870 in Crossfire is still a steal at any price under $600.
 
Amazon has a listing up for a Diamond 4850 at $229.99 with free shipping; they don't call it a preorder but call it an out of stock (probably because their database thinks it was released June 6).

I went ahead and ordered one as a 'safety' order. I'm concerned about markups and shortages if demand goes through the roof for these.

Since these are supposedly all reference designs at launch I don't expect to see any real differences between vendors.

EDIT: now listed as $199.99, a $30 cut from a few hours ago.
 
beermonkey@tehbias said:
Amazon has a listing up for a Diamond 4850 at $229.99 with free shipping; they don't call it a preorder but call it an out of stock (probably because their database thinks it was released June 6).

I went ahead and ordered one as a 'safety' order. I'm concerned about markups and shortages if demand goes through the roof for these.

Since these are supposedly all reference designs at launch I don't expect to see any real differences between vendors.
Click to expand...
Thats $30 more than the expected price. I fear to think about the premium in the 4870X2.
 
Chiggs said:
Do you know what the reasoning behind this is?
Click to expand...
Their architecture isn't capable of implementing the hardware changes. DirectX 10 was developed between Microsoft and ATI, so ATI has the advantage when it comes to DX10 specifications and thats why they were able to implement DX10.1 since the 38xx series. Something to note though is that DX10.1 increases image quality and performance. Assassins Creed for PC used to run in DX10.1 mode and it performed better in ATI cards, but after the "The way its meant to be played" patch, DX10.1 code was removed of the game supposedly because Nvidia asked for it (they were the game sponsors), and The Nvidia cards matched the ATI cards in Assasins Creed performance not because framerates were improved int he Nvidia cards, but the ATI cards were crippled a bit.

TBH, that event is what sort of made me despise Nvidia. I never had bad blood for them, but that was low. The problem is that Assasins Creed was a buggy game so the patch fixes bugs, but reduces performance if you are an ATI owner. Pretty sad if you ask me since the bugs had nothing to do with graphics.
 
wow the increase in fps for crysis is very low.

I pld crysis at 1080p, all settings high except shadows at medium and got 25/30 FPS util the ice came and that halved my fps, had to play at 720p from then onwards.

specs of my pc
4.0ghz
4gig ram
8800 gt
 
Sanjay said:
wow the increase in fps for crysis is very low.

I pld crysis at 1080p, all settings high except shadows at medium and got 25/30 FPS util the ice came and that halved my fps, had to play at 720p from then onwards.

specs of my pc
4.0ghz
4gig ram
8800 gt
Click to expand...
Yep, thats the issue here. The framerate increase isn't even there if you are gaming on a 9800GTX2.
 
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