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[Tenacious-V]

Ok thanks for the tips. I really have very little knowledge on the subject.

Without spending a fortune, what would you suggest? It has to be a laptop also, due to uni.

If you want a notebook system you can game on, just wait for more AMD Puma based notebooks to come out that support XGP! Those will be coming out soon, easily for the back to school season (you should actually see them by July) and the XGP slot (external PCI Express 2.0) goes with ATi's new external graphics solutions for notebooks. http://ati.amd.com/technology/xgp/index.html

They will start off with external HD3870s that plug right in to the notebook and override (or crossfireX) the integrated video, so you will be running a discreet video card. It's pretty much guaranteed you will get the 48xx series in them as well.

 

[MaritalWheat]

Whats the difference between PCI-E and PCI-E 2.0?

A PCI-E 2.0 slot is better but a PCI-E 2.0 card will work in a normal PCI-E slot is all know for sure; better explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCIe#PCI_Express_2.0

 

[godhandiscen]

A PCI-E 2.0 slot is better but a PCI-E 2.0 card will work in a normal PCI-E slot is all know for sure; better explanation here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCIe#PCI_Express_2.0

K, this is great news. I will be able to put my current card in my old mobo. Thanks.

 

[Moonwalker]

For such a hot and expensive card, the numbers are disappointing to say the least. I think the brute force approach isn't working for nvidia anymore, they need to design a new architecture that tries to increase the performance per watt/transistor. Plus the card isn't even DX10.1 compliant.

I think ATI has the right idea this time around. $600 graphics cards that require obscene power supplies are just not what pc gaming needs to bring back the casuals imo. The 48XX series looks very tasty right about now.

 

[brain_stew]

Just a quick correction, it's the 12V rail you are looking at.

Yeah, brainfart, :-/

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Bregor]

Don't Crossfire and SLI require different chipset motherboards? Recommending someone go one way or the other because the crossfire (or sli) solution is more cost effective only makes sense if they don't have to replace their MB at the same time.

 

[The Crimson Kid]

You can get the 4850, you've got a PCIe slot.

That's what I was thinking, but I just wanted to make sure. Would there be any problem with any newer CPUs?

 

[godhandiscen]

Don't Crossfire and SLI require different chipset motherboards? Recommending someone go one way or the other because the crossfire (or sli) solution is more cost effective only makes sense if they don't have to replace their MB at the same time.

Yeah, well if the person doesn't explain what kind of setup he is starting with, you can assume he is even building a new computer. However, yeah, my bad.

 

[brain_stew]

That's what I was thinking, but I just wanted to make sure. Would there be any problem with any newer CPUs?

You'd have to look up if your board supports Core 2 CPU's, its socket 775 but that doesn't guarantee compatibility and even if it does it'll likely be older models that are harder to get now. Best case scenario would be a BIOS flash, worst case, a new board. It only supports memory upto 533mhz anyway, which would likely cripple performance of a highly clocked Core 2.

Edit: According to this page it looks like you're out of luck as I thought you might be. If you want to keep costs down then a Gigabyte P35 DS3L is a bargain at the moment (I have the vanilla version and its excellent) and will overclock like a dream. If you're thinking of Crossfire in the future then you'll want a board based on Intel's X48 chipset. Not looked into these myself so can't recommend anything in particular but Gigabyte and Asus are usually your best bets.

 

[camineet]

Can't wait to see 3-way SLI GTX 280 vs 2 CrossFire HD 4870X2


:lol :lol :lol

 

[kiUNiT]

Do we have those benchmarks?

You don't see many Core2 motherboards supporting Crossfire. So Crossfire isn't a viable option for most people with Core2 desktops, which is...most people.

You have it backwards, Most boards for Intel cpu's support crossfire right out of the box. It's Nvidia's SLI that has limited support because they won't let Intel licence SLI chipsets.

 

[brain_stew]

You have it backwards, Most boards for Intel cpu's support crossfire right out of the box. It's Nvidia's SLI that has limited support because they won't let Intel licence SLI chipsets.

I was going to mention this, all boards based on Intel's highend chipsets have supported Crossfire for some time now and tbh I'd avoid an Nvidia board like the plague, heard nothing but bad things about their Core 2 boards.

 

[bill0527]

That's what I was thinking, but I just wanted to make sure. Would there be any problem with any newer CPUs?

Your CPU can't be upgraded with your current motherboard. You have the right socket for a Core 2 Duo/Quad, but it doesn't have the right chipset. You'll need to replace your motherboard if you want a new CPU.

 

[The Crimson Kid]

You'd have to look up if your board supports Core 2 CPU's, its socket 775 but that doesn't guarantee compatibility and even if it does it'll likely be older models that are harder to get now. Best case scenario would be a BIOS flash, worst case, a new board. It only supports memory upto 533mhz anyway, which would likely cripple performance of a highly clocked Core 2.

Edit: According to this page it looks like you're out of luck as I thought you might be. If you want to keep costs down then a Gigabyte P35 DS3L is a bargain at the moment (I have the vanilla version and its excellent) and will overclock like a dream. If you're thinking of Crossfire in the future then you'll want a board based on Intel's X48 chipset. Not looked into these myself so can't recommend anything in particular but Gigabyte and Asus are usually your best bets.

Thank you.

 

[Cheeto]

You have it backwards, Most boards for Intel cpu's support crossfire right out of the box. It's Nvidia's SLI that has limited support because they won't let Intel licence SLI chipsets.

Really? I didn't know this... I assumed the opposite because when I go to the motherboard section of newegg and filter to socket 775, then search crossfire only 2 motherboard models are returned. Is an "SLi board" usually also Crossfire?

 

[zoku88]

Really? I didn't know this... I assumed the opposite because when I go to the motherboard section of newegg and filter to socket 775, then search crossfire only 2 motherboard models are returned. Is an "SLi board" usually also Crossfire?

Well, if you search crossfire motherboard, you don't actually get much..

 

[godhandiscen]

I was going to mention this, all boards based on Intel's highend chipsets have supported Crossfire for some time now and tbh I'd avoid an Nvidia board like the plague, heard nothing but bad things about their Core 2 boards.

Then all people rejoice, Crossfire 4850 is here to stay!

 

[Vic]

Then all people rejoice, Crossfire 4850 is here to stay!

I'm still waiting for benchmarks godhandiscen!

 

[Beer Monkey]

Well, my buy.com 4850 order still says 'in the shipping process'. Very frustrating, especially since I can't cancel it in this status.

 

[godhandiscen]

I'm still waiting for benchmarks godhandiscen!

Of what? I can get you non official ones if you want to, but nobody can get official Crossfire 4850 benchmarks because of NDA they say, and the fact nobody has been able to score 2 cards at any shop.

:lol I was going to quote a previous post in this forum, but I realized it was by you. The rumor is strong, 2x4850 beat the GTX280. I first heard it from ORB who was able to get multiple cards like a week ago and wasn't under NDA, but AMD threatened to sue his dristributor so he had to shut up.

 

[Bregor]

Of what? I can get you non official ones if you want to, but nobody can get official Crossfire 4850 benchmarks because of NDA they say, and the fact nobody has been able to score 2 cards at any shop.

:lol I was going to quote a previous post in this forum, but I realized it was by you. The rumor is strong, 2x4850 beat the GTX280. I first heard it from ORB who was able to get multiple cards like a week ago and wasn't under NDA, but AMD threatened to sue his dristributor so he had to shut up.

I assume you are comparing this on a price vs. price basis rather than on a card vs card basis. The Nvidia cards still are the top of the line if one ignores value.

I'm in an interesting position on this. I'm need to upgrade from my SLI 8800 GTX set up (though the reason why is annoying), and its difficult for me to judge the best course. My monitor is a 30 inch widescreen, 2560x1600 res, and apparently the large amount of on card memory and high bandwidth becomes more and more important at high resolutions. The 280GTX may be the card for me. The price is obscene however.

 

[Pachael]

I've had a look at the GTX260/280 reviews and they do really well as a single-card solution. That said, the price is too high, and I wonder how much of the price is included with (somewhat) value-adding applications such as the video encoder and Folding@home.

There's next week for the ATI cards, which will be interesting.

 

[godhandiscen]

I assume you are comparing this on a price vs. price basis rather than on a card vs card basis. The Nvidia cards still are the top of the line if one ignores value.
I'm in an interesting position on this. I'm need to upgrade from my SLI 8800 GTX set up (though the reason why is annoying), and its difficult for me to judge the best course. My monitor is a 30 inch widescreen, 2560x1600 res, and apparently the large amount of on card memory and high bandwidth becomes more and more important at high resolutions. The 280GTX may be the card for me. The price is obscene however.

No, I am saying absolute performance.


This review of the GTX280, with same scores as Tom's Hardware, not a fake:

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/1464/18/page_18_final_thoughts/index.htm

Read this:

The other thing I have to say before I wrap this all up is that I’ve tested the HD 4850, and I’ve tested it in Crossfire. Now, if I hadn’t tested those cards I may have been more impressed with the GTX 280, but I have. I’ve seen the performance figures the cards put out. We also know the price on a pair of HD 4850s is going to be under $600 AUD, while the new GTX 280 in stock form seems to be launching at the absolute cheapest in Australia in the low $700 AUD area. Ouch.

Also, ATI fanboys finally come out of the cave. I kinda hate it because now a lot of people (people I know in person, not you guys) are jumping in the "I was always an ATI fanboy bandwagon". Anyways.....

from here http://madpixelz.net/nv/

 

[Bregor]

No, I am saying absolute performance.

So you are saying that a single HD 4850 will beat a single 280 GTX? It seems that you are argueing that two crossfire HD 4850 will beat a single 250 GTX, which isn't comparing them on a card vs card basis, but rather a value basis.

 

[Animal]

* Waits anxiously to see the official benchmarks of the new ATI cards.
(N.B. I am a closeted AMD/ATI fanboy).:lol

 

[avaya]

So sir... when am I going to play with your delicious 4870X2 in Crossfire? After the GTX280 reviews, the 4870X2 is obviously going for $700. Nvidia fucking failed me! :lol

I will buy the 4870X2 X-fire if it gives me Crysis 60fps, at 1200p with 8xAF

 

[Kadey]

Reviews with month's old beta drivers=win!!!

That being said, the GTX 280 is still the fastest single card. The problem is the pricing. But it'll fall fast due to ATI's aggressive pricing/performance. A vendor already confirmed with me if I'm interesting in getting one, mind as well wait a few weeks for a $100-$150 price drop.

 

[Buggy Loop]

from toms'

"During Windows startup, the GT200 fan was quiet (running at 516 rpm, or 30% of its maximum rate). Then, once a game was started, it suddenly turned into a washing machine, reaching a noise level that was frankly unbearable"

Oh nvidia

 

[Vic]

All I'm wondering is if the 4800s Crossfire/X2 is going to truly deliver. Well, everyone that have been following the news and rumors about the new cards are wondering the same especially that we now know the GTX 200 didn't move upward much compared to the 9800GX2.

 

[godhandiscen]

So you are saying that a single HD 4850 will beat a single 280 GTX? It seems that you are argueing that two crossfire HD 4850 will beat a single 250 GTX, which isn't comparing them on a card vs card basis, but rather a value basis.

No, I am talking Crossfire. Read the quote. 2 4850's are cheaper than a GTX280.

Reviews with month's old beta drivers=win!!!

That being said, the GTX 280 is still the fastest single card. The problem is the pricing. But it'll fall fast due to ATI's aggressive pricing/performance. A vendor already confirmed with me if I'm interesting in getting one, mind as well wait a few weeks for a $100-$150 price drop.

Also, people should remember the fact that the GTX280 is only once chip, meaning that when it comes to scalability it will beat the shit out of the ATI cards. Once the GTX280 hits the sweet spot of $400, SLI'd GTX280's will sweep all benchmarks.

 

[XMonkey]

9700 Pro

Godly card

 

[Cheeto]

Well, if you search crossfire motherboard, you don't actually get much..

If you search SLI though you get tons.

 

[Buggy Loop]

These chipsets

* AMD 580X CrossFire™ chipset
* AMD 480X CrossFire™ chipset
* ATI CrossFire™ Xpress 3200 chipset
* Intel® X38 Express chipset
* Intel® 975X Express chipset
* Intel® P965 Express chipset
* Intel® P35 Express chipset

 

[brain_stew]

Really? I didn't know this... I assumed the opposite because when I go to the motherboard section of newegg and filter to socket 775, then search crossfire only 2 motherboard models are returned. Is an "SLi board" usually also Crossfire?

I don't know if Intel brand their boards as "crossfire ready" or whatever, it being an AMD thing is probably why they don't but sure enough any X48 based board will support crossfire. So long as it uses an Intel chipset and has two PCIe x16 slots you should be golden. Unlike SLI you don't have to match cards either with CrossfireX, you could pick up a 4850 then add add a 4870 later on from what I gather. Whilst I'm hardly a big advocate of multi GPU solutions, ATI definitely seem to have the best setup and its offered on stable overclockable baords, something that can not be said about SLI

 

[ahoyhoy]

Well, if you search crossfire motherboard, you don't actually get much..

According to Wikipedia: * ATI has opened the Crossfire architecture to Intel, allowing CrossFire to be enabled on certain Intel chipsets which boast two 16x PCI-E slots. SLI, however, requires a motherboard which is SLI certified (usually based on nForce chipset, such as the nForce 590 SLI and nForce 680i SLI)."

So, it should be easier to find a Crossfire motherboard than an SLI, since most all PCI-E x2 mobo's are supported.

 

[bill0527]

These chipsets

* AMD 580X CrossFire™ chipset
* AMD 480X CrossFire™ chipset
* ATI CrossFire™ Xpress 3200 chipset
* Intel® X38 Express chipset
* Intel® 975X Express chipset
* Intel® P965 Express chipset
* Intel® P35 Express chipset

I have an Intel P965 Express chipset on my mobo.

Its a Gigabyte GA-965p-DS3 mobo. I was under the impression that it couldn't do SLI or Crossfire when I bought it and the specifications at newegg didn't list it as being compatible with either.

edit: NM, forgot that I've only got 1 PCI experess slot on my mobo, so that explains it.

 

[Technosteve]

sli is only nvidia's 6xxi and 7xx series motherboard which have a horrible reputation for reliability and stability and they cost a shit ton more then a p35 mobo. But i'm a diehard nvidia fan back to the geforce 2 mx days. Guess i'll wait till the ati benchmarks to come out to decide how to build my new pc.

Spoiler

WHYYYYYY NVIDIA WHYYYYYYYY

 

[MaritalWheat]

Alright, so basically I'm looking at this: either $130 or so for an 8800 GT, or $200 for an HD 4850, keeping in mind that I'd need all new shit to be able to Crossfire/SLi down the road (i.e. I'm not planning on it). Does it look like the 4850 is actually providing a big enough leap to warrant the extra $70? And how long do you think it'll still be relevant; by 2010 will I be playing games on low settings for decent frames?
...also, when is the ATI stuff coming out? I've been confused on that for a while.

 

[godhandiscen]

Alright, so basically I'm looking at this: either $130 or so for an 8800 GT, or $200 for an HD 4850, keeping in mind that I'd need all new shit to be able to Crossfire/SLi down the road (i.e. I'm not planning on it). Does it look like the 4850 is actually providing a big enough leap to warrant the extra $70? And how long do you think it'll still be relevant; by 2010 will I be playing games on low settings for decent frames?
...also, when is the ATI stuff coming out? I've been confused on that for a while.

Well, the 48xx is the first series to heavily support DirectX10.1, which with Assasins Creed (pre-patch) did wondersso thats a little bit relevant. However, In your case I would recommend to wait. Also, think about which games you are going to play before choosing your card. If you are thinking future games, then upgrade later, if you are thinking current games, then wait for benches in the current games you are interested. Also, remember the benches always are with the fastest processors, memory, etc, to avoid bottlenecks, so the performance could be a couple frames less.

 

[Nostromo]

AMD this time is going to hit NVIDIA really hard.
It's great that AMD/ATI went back on track very quickly after the R600 vs G80 debacle.

 

[bill0527]

FUCK YES !!

My Radeon 4850 has shipped. It'll be here Wednesday.

I don't have a souped up rig, mostly a mid-range rig, so I'll give you guys some details on my setup. Right now I'm playing The Witcher, Company of Heroes, and I'll load up Crysis and test out Bioshock.

 

[Jaagen]

Do you guys think it'll be possible to CF a 3870 and a 4850/70 together( have a 3870), or should I just CF two 3870's?(No three way CF support on my mobo)

 

[Naeblish]

FUCK YES !!

My Radeon 4850 has shipped. It'll be here Wednesday.

I don't have a souped up rig, mostly a mid-range rig, so I'll give you guys some details on my setup. Right now I'm playing The Witcher, Company of Heroes, and I'll load up Crysis and test out Bioshock.

Nice, i'm getting my new rig next week, got a mb that supports CF so i can put a second 4850 in it when they get cheaper.

 

[Beer Monkey]

My buy.com order shipped too. I just cancelled my Amazon order.

 

[godhandiscen]

Do you guys think it'll be possible to CF a 3870 and a 4850/70 together( have a 3870), or should I just CF two 3870's?(No three way CF support on my mobo)

Nobody knows yet. Some Crossfire combinations would yield bad results if the cards have different architectures, so I would recommend you to wait until people get more info and somebody tries it. In a week or two hit the ATI forums or some xtreme overclocking forum. Dont be the first one to do it.

 

[Zzoram]

When attaching the E8400 stock HSF to an EP35-DS3L, I can only get 3 of the 4 clips fully in. The last one is only half in. How do I fix that (I tried more pressure) and will it lead to damage or loss of thermal conductivity?

 

[bee]

When attaching the E8400 stock HSF to an EP35-DS3L, I can only get 3 of the 4 clips fully in. The last one is only half in. How do I fix that (I tried more pressure) and will it lead to damage or loss of thermal conductivity?

i find the only advice people need when building a pc is, never be afraid to use force..lots of force

put two diagonally opposite pushpins in together at once, then once there in push the other two in together

 

[Cheeto]

When attaching the E8400 stock HSF to an EP35-DS3L, I can only get 3 of the 4 clips fully in. The last one is only half in. How do I fix that (I tried more pressure) and will it lead to damage or loss of thermal conductivity?

You should mount the CPU before placing the motherboard into the case. Lay the board on a piece of cardboard and press the shit out of it. You'll want to make sure all clips are fully in so that the chip makes the best contact it can with the heatsink.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

When attaching the E8400 stock HSF to an EP35-DS3L, I can only get 3 of the 4 clips fully in. The last one is only half in. How do I fix that (I tried more pressure) and will it lead to damage or loss of thermal conductivity?

Use more force, that's all I can tell you. Just make sure that last one is halfway through and not bent. Had to get rid of a HSF because I managed to bend two pins.

If you don't want to tear your hair off though, you can get a bolt kit for around $6.

 

[prodystopian]

Reviews with month's old beta drivers=win!!!

That being said, the GTX 280 is still the fastest single card. The problem is the pricing. But it'll fall fast due to ATI's aggressive pricing/performance. A vendor already confirmed with me if I'm interesting in getting one, mind as well wait a few months for a $100-$150 price drop.

Fixed.

I wouldn't be surprised to see these chips go for over retail at first, and go below retail only after a few months. That is what happened when they released the G92 cards, and I see no reason to think differently of this launch.

I agree with you on the scalability, though. People tend to see a few benchmarks and get excited about a dual card solution, but forget that you have to figure in the extra cost of a better mobo and PSU if you don't already have them. Also, the performance of the dual card solutions can be fickle.