chriskun
Member
How is this not true, has any new information come to light in the past month or so, I haven't been keeping up.
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Keighley: Epic says UE4 not targeted at Wii U on GTTV, Epic responds [Updated Again]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
How is this not true, has any new information come to light in the past month or so, I haven't been keeping up.
plagiarize
Banned
i get that, as i alluded to when i say the Wii U won't be running DX anything, but what limitations does the rumoured graphics part have when considering UE4? is it just a raw power thing with the move to a engine that's all realtime, or is it lacking in feature set, as the Wii was, hypothetically preventing the engine from showing up on the system?
How bout some actual data: the Wii's software tie-in ratio is 8.5 per console, according to the latest Nintendo financial report. That's within spitting distance of the PS3's tie ratio and just over a game off the 360's.
And this thread... wow.
ITT, people confuse "hardware power" with "hardware features". These people get it:
Yes
Yes
Yes!
And this from someone who would be in a position to know:
You won't see Epic make UE4 games on Wii U. That doesn't mean anything in regards to whether it will run on the hardware - the features on its chips will. Just in the same way that Durango will be running the engine despite not having a GPU that isn't comparable to the Kepler 680-equipped system used to demo the engine at GDC.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
We've already seen a few devs outright say that the machine has more power than the current generation. Since this board has been through this a million times, it shouldn't be that hard to find through a search.
We currently don't know how much more power it has than 360/PS3, but we know it's higher than "on par" with current systems.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
UE4 Atari 2600 support confirmed.
Where did you get that last quote from Stevie?
Father_Brain
Banned
Li Mu Bai, a member of the Beyond3D forums who has a reputation as a Credible Source of Industry Insider Information.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
ah yes, Ive seen his posts in the past although I can't say I frequent that forum.
Only difference between the time that was posted and now is that Metro's not shipping for Wii U day-and-date with the PS360 SKUs. It will be a later release, if at all.
Nintendo makes systems to sell Nintendo games. They also make sure to make a profit off each unit. It works for them for whatever reason people want to attribute. 3rd parties are at best fluff, and at worst competition. Some people want a Nintendo console to be the end all, be all system for the usual console warrior bullshit.
mdtauk
Member
Nintendo does not necessarily see the industry in the same way as other console manufacturers.
Here is how I believe Nintendo approach these things.
Nintendo sees the end of their current console's lifetime, and so the Hardware department talks to the Developers asking them what they want and how the current hardware is holding them back.
Then they go to their R&D departments to see what tech they have been exploring and working with, and broker discussion between the two sides matching the tech they have, to how devs may find ways to use it.
They build up a spec, and begin the process of determining how to include all those features, designing chipsets and architectures to build a spec requirement which they then go looking for partners to work with.
(GCN, Wii, and Wii U have been using IBM for processors, and AMD/ATI for graphics).
Then the team and its leader assigned the task of designing and building machines draws up chassis designs that will encompass the tech inside, and explorers materials to use and does experiments with manufacturing plants, such as FoxConn in china etc.
During these phases, you will find various Dev Kits being built and upgraded or replaced as the spec gets more and more finalised.
After testing, negotiations with partners (possibly Epic, and Autodesk etc) they put the thing together and gear up for launch.
I think that's the idea.
Begins? No no, dumb people have been saying that about every Nintendo system since.
chriskun
Member
Didn't a dev also say that it is not as powerful as current gen systems in some aspects?
Yes, and other anonymous devs have said the exact opposite. Confirmation bias works wonders.
That was discussed in the Wii Spec thread, and I think the idea tossed around there is that he was talking about # of programmable shaders being less in Wii U than 360. Therefore the overall power will be higher, but Wii U is not a superset of all 360 hardware features.
mdtauk
Member
Its a mixed bag, and there may or may not be past prejudices coming into play. The real test will be when titles start being released, and any NDAs in effect end.
chriskun
Member
theres no bias, it seems the wii u has some strengths and weaknesses, but is almost completely similar comparison wise as the wii to gamecube leap. I don't see how anyone can believe the Wii U is going to hold a candle to Sony and Microsofts efforts graphic wise, considering their past hardware strategy for the past generation of console and handheld devices.
No, there is definitely a confirmation bias when it comes to rumours.
Aizu_Itsuko
Member
All I see time after time in these threads is people cherry picking from all this wide range of rumours that point to very different things the ones that sound better to them.
We know a few things about the Wii U but everything else are just assumptions based on a variety of reasons. Everybody can give their expectations and explain why they think that way as long as they understand that it's just their opinion and are willing to change those expectations once new facts come to light.
This quote also seems like non-news. They ask him if he can hint at UE4 running on Wii U and all Keighley does is point to what Mike Capps said back at GDC, something we already knew.
We know a few things about the Wii U but everything else are just assumptions based on a variety of reasons. Everybody can give their expectations and explain why they think that way as long as they understand that it's just their opinion and are willing to change those expectations once new facts come to light.
This quote also seems like non-news. They ask him if he can hint at UE4 running on Wii U and all Keighley does is point to what Mike Capps said back at GDC, something we already knew.
chriskun
Member
Isn't that all we have to go off right now??? this is all speculation, if Nintendo comes out at E3 showing their system graphically outshines the current gen competitors I would be immensely happy.
mdtauk
Member
I don't have high hopes, but I want the machine to be able to hold its own (if not entirely match) the capabilities of the upcoming consoles.
So I really have no expectations, and like everyone else, am fumbling in the dark clutching at straws.
No, it isn't.
chriskun
Member
umm ok, point me in the direction of the overwhelming hard evidence that exists.
There is none. In any respect, on any side of any argument.
chriskun
Member
You're missing the fact that it's all unsubstantiated conjecture, and that there is no real argument in either direction
This is from a confirmed Microsoft engineer. Take it as you will (although if you want to go for unsubstantiated conjecture, you can say that this is why Epic is still whining to Microsoft and Sony that their consoles aren't strong enough for UE4):
bkillian said:
Any hard evidence on that "NDA" that is being thrown around all the time?
I see people implying that nobody can say anything about the Wii-U, except there are statements made almost every day. By devs, media, what have you.
Is it just wishful thinking at this point? Because it sounds like people expect the NDA to be lifted someday, and suddenly devs coming out of the woodwork in full support of the Wii-U, carrying spec sheets.
I see people implying that nobody can say anything about the Wii-U, except there are statements made almost every day. By devs, media, what have you.
Is it just wishful thinking at this point? Because it sounds like people expect the NDA to be lifted someday, and suddenly devs coming out of the woodwork in full support of the Wii-U, carrying spec sheets.
Exterminieren
Banned
The devs for the new Sega racing game basically flat out said they couldn't talk about the Wii U version because of the restrictions Nintendo have slapped on info.
Coupled with the zealous way that the leaker of the updated WiiU controller is being dealt with, and it's fairly obvious Nintendo are making others keep any cards they have close to their chests.
Yes. Its been stated many times in interviews that devs are under NDA on the WiiU. Even Vigil and Gearbox have said this, however they are allowed to talk about their games in a small fashion as they were previously announced.
I never said that. Of course they're going to be stronger - especially the Microsoft console. They're just not going to be as ridiculous as the leap this generation. I'm basically saying everything is conjecture - nothing is 'hard evidence'. For every one zealot that can point out a post where there is an anonymous dev saying "eh, Wii U - on par" you can be sure another zealot will be finding you a post that says "Wii U is definitely much stronger". It's a losing battle to play with conjecture and only leads to a bunch of posts fueled by confirmation bias. The post from the Microsoft engineer is simply to put it all into perspective (especially the part where he basically said the software will conform to the hardware).
You may have misunderstood. I said there is "none" - as in no hard evidence:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38311507&postcount=1030
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
You've been saying this for at least a year and I still don't understand why. What makes this generation jump any different than the previous?
For starters, you can read what the Microsoft engineer is saying above - indicating that large, loud razor-blade superboxes aren't as high on the priority lists this upcoming generation, especially when you want to target multiple demographics.
Grampa Simpson
Banned
At the start of this generation they had just been generation over generation declining marketshare that any pundit or publisher worth their salt had determined would continue until Nintendo went 3rd party or just died.
As of right now, they're ending the generation in 1st place (in profits and hardware units sold) and just ate everyones lunch because nobody supported their platform.
It's a different situation.
Several devs have gone on record about not being able to talk about certain things regarding the Wii U until Nintendo gives the go ahead. One of the "Alien" interviews comes to mind. One tester for "Lego: GTA" was recently fired and blacklisted for leaking the new Wii U controller.
Yes. NDAs are real.
I'm guessing the technological differences between modern shader tech and old school tech just offered a massive benefit in the final result (graphics). Additionally, the jump to HD from SD required considerably more power to get the job done at an acceptable fidelity and framerate so those machines had to be that much more powerful. Apart from the Wii to Wii U, next-gen machines don't have to make any resolution jumps like that. Even if they support 3d it will be an afterthought.
And finally, cost. I don't think Sony want to sell a console at a loss again.
The last few days have had a few devs saying that they can't talk due to NDAs.
specialguy
Banned
You're missing the fact that it's all unsubstantiated conjecture, and that there is no real argument in either direction
This is from a confirmed Microsoft engineer. Take it as you will (although if you want to go for unsubstantiated conjecture, you can say that this is why Epic is still whining to Microsoft and Sony that their consoles aren't strong enough for UE4):
Confirmed MS engineer but he's not in the Xbox team, correct?
Not a direct response but related... Do you have any idea how much the rest of MS dislikes the X-Box division? It's pretty surprising, really. They seem to consider the division to be a bunch of spoiled children that haven't earned their way.
Seriously, I've had dinner with some of these engineers and business folks from MS that just wish the whole damn division would close shop. Was shocked by it.
Anyway... just a tangent. Your comment just reminded me of this. Pursue your line of thought.
specialguy
Banned
Maybe not hard evidence but we do have some generalities established.
Basically in the gist of "Wii U is less than 2X as powerful as PS360", imo.
Which means it can be anywhere from .9 to 1.9. But imo we're basically debating that range.
At e3 we very well may not get leaked specs. We will see games, including Nintendo first party games. My guess is they will look a lot like PS360 games. Maybe they will have flashes of something beyond, maybe not. At that point the spin will begin, those in the wii U camp will trot out a litany of rhetoric, some of it valid, that these are early, first gen efforts, probably claim they were produced on underpowered dev kits, that Wii U is likely capable of much more. Those in the anti camp will scoff that the visuals are on par with PS360 and claim it's exceedingly disappointing. After E3 will be at least a few weeks of "dark" on the Wii U front to foster the spin on both sides as we disect what was shown.
specialguy
Banned
Weird, I always thought it was pretty much the most popular division with MS, even far out of kilter to it's actual size or relevance in terms of revenues or profits.
I mean, would you rather work on Office, or the Xbox? I think you can guess what every red blooded male would choose...
And Gates has spoken of Xbox as being their uniquely consumer facing product, that people get excited about. The crowds at the Microsoft store when he hands out the first Xbox of a new gen and all that, it actually touches consumers as a physical product unlike all the software stuff they do.
There is absolutely no reason to play the scalar game unless we actually have something about the system's performance to measure. We've got zilch.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
That sounds absolutely bizarre. Kind of assumed since the next XBox is probably going to use a modified version of Windows 8 (and the new dashboard already looks like a prototype of it) that there was more of a connection between the different divisions at Microsoft. Is seniority really that big a deal when it comes to inner-company politics such as this?
The problem is that the X-Box division has taken a very long time to become profitable, so some of the other divisions - the cash cows, the ones that bring in all the bank - seem to feel they are a waste of resources based on the ROI. Understand, many of the folks I've spoken to are more on the business side of things - they simply feel the X-Box division hasn't earned its keep and that MS should have been focusing its capital and attention in other areas where there was more potential value to be gained.
One of them called the X-Box folks "Fucking prima donnas." Was quite funny.
specialguy
Banned
We have lots of dev scuttlebutt and specs scuttlebutt to give us a general picture in the run up to E3.
We know it isn't 10X 360 and imo we know it isn't even 3X 360 (some would like to dispute the latter of course).
What we dont know is if it's ~.9 (unlikely, but there have even been some whispers of aspects lesser than 360), ~1.2, ~1.4, etc.