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[DjangoReinhardt]

I buy far fewer Japanese games now than even five years ago. Anecdotally, it seems to me that Japanese games tend to suffer from usability issues far more often than non-Japanese games. When I played RE5, MGS4, or Lost Planet, I was fighting the game to do what I wanted to do. That's just nowhere near as big of an issue in Halo, Gears, or Uncharted. If a game is awkward to interact with, I just go play something else nowadays.

 

[inner-G]

I buy far fewer Japanese games now than even five years ago. Anecdotally, it seems to me that Japanese games tend to suffer from usability issues far more often than non-Japanese games. When I played RE5, MGS4, or Lost Planet, I was fighting the game to do what I wanted to do. That's just nowhere near as big of an issue in Halo, Gears, or Uncharted. If a game is awkward to interact with, I just go play something else nowadays.

Those are Japanese games shoehorned into a Western mold.

When Japanese game developers focus on putting out the best game they can for Japan, that is when they really shine imo. Look at Dragon Quest IX and Persona 4 for instance.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

Those are Japanese games shoehorned into a Western mold.

When Japanese game developers focus on putting out the best game they can for Japan, that is when they really shine imo. Look at Dragon Quest IX and Persona 4 for instance.

I'd say the jRPG is pretty much the gold standard of archaic and awkward game design.

 

[gundamzeta209]

I don't understand a lot of the replies in the this thread.

In response to the decline of Japanese console gaming relevance\, the bulk statements seem to be "I play Japanese games, or I solely play japanese games, so it's not irrelevant".

I listen to Traditional Jazz, does that mean Jazz isn't basically irrelevant as a Sales driving or commercially viable medium? Obviously my tastes mean nothing to impact the American Music market.

The problem with Japanese Games is plainly evident in this thread. They appeal to an eccentric and small group of cult followers in the united states. Hanger-on-ers of the Old Anime movement in the 90's, when Anime had a more hipsterish appeal than the childish appeal of today.

Most people today associate the Japanese Anime-look with Dragon ball Z or Pokemon. They see it a children's medium. It's not the 90's where Anime was culturally represented by the adult-themed shoes of Akira or Robotech. These childish connotations are made worse by the current use of effeminate male leads that many Americans simply can't relate to. These aesthetic flaws, unfortunately, are just but one factor in their demise on the console realm. There are many more.

 

[SecretBonusPoint]

When I played MGS4 I was fighting the game to do what I wanted to do.

I don't understand this. MGS4 had the best control scheme of the entire series, it was incredibly easy and intuitive. It almost made the rest of the entire game too easy because of it.

 

[inner-G]

I'd say the jRPG is pretty much the gold standard of archaic and awkward game design.

Not for what they are trying to do.

They don't (usually) try to be full 3D games with real-time combat like the game you listed.
As they are designed, the 'usability' of the game is not a problem in most cases.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

Well, all my favourite games this gen have been made outside of Japan....save for a couple of Capcom games.

So I'd say he's spot on.

But let's be honest, most have known this for some time. When the populace of the country you develop games in chooses to buy nothing but JRPGS and Dating Sims, how the hell are you meant to progress?

I guess that's what makes Capcom great.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I'd say the jRPG is pretty much the gold standard of archaic and awkward game design.

Japan isn't going to get rid of their staple genre. Regardless of what you think of them, a lot of people still like them.

 

[Lion Heart]

I buy far fewer Japanese games now than even five years ago. Anecdotally, it seems to me that Japanese games tend to suffer from usability issues far more often than non-Japanese games. When I played RE5, MGS4, or Lost Planet, I was fighting the game to do what I wanted to do. That's just nowhere near as big of an issue in Halo, Gears, or Uncharted. If a game is awkward to interact with, I just go play something else nowadays.

Well, in the case of MGS4, the game is A LOT more complicated than those shooters. There is much more to the gameplay, crouching, prone, first/third person, sneak, CQC, rolling on the ground, reverse aiming, etc.

 

[CultureClearance]

Japan isn't going to get rid of their staple genre. Regardless of what you think of them, a lot of people still like them.

A lot LESS people still like them, which was the point of the quote which resulted in this thread. Less and less japanese are playing games. Less and less japanese are buying games. Less and less japanese companies are making games.
Japan as a culture is getting old. It doesn't bode well for a lot of things and it certainly doesn't bode well for what are essentially kids and teen toys.

At this rate the TGS is just going to be the NDS-con.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

A lot LESS people still like them, which was the point of the quote which resulted in this thread. Less and less japanese are playing games. Less and less japanese are buying games. Less and less japanese companies are making games.
Japan as a culture is getting old. It doesn't bode well for a lot of things and it certainly doesn't bode well for what are essentially kids and teen toys.

At this rate the TGS is just going to be the NDS-con.

Less and less Japanese are buying console games. The handheld market is fine. If anything, there's more Japanese games coming out than ever, just not ones with giant AAA budgets.

I just counted and there are 84 Japanese games that I am interested in at all coming out in the next 7 months. Like I said it before, the Japan part of the industry isn't going anywhere.

 

[Opiate]

A lot LESS people still like them, which was the point of the quote which resulted in this thread. Less and less japanese are playing games. Less and less japanese are buying games.

This seems clearly false to me. The DS alone is the most popular console in history in Japan, and that's before we discuss the PSP: for the first time in Japanese history, three video game platforms are going to break 10m units sold in a single generation (DS, PSP, Wii).

Dragon Quest IX is about to hit 4 million units sold, making it the best selling non-Nintendo video game in history in Japan.

What evidence do you have to support your theory?

 

[Narcosis]

The problem with this thread is too much of "well I like game X or this genre on this platform so everything is fine" or "handhelds have alot of games, nothing is wrong", and through that filter we get east vs west, handheld vs home consoles and Nintendo vs HD console wars being tossed around and people are just throwing their own tastes into the mix and not paying attention to what the people in japan, who actually work in the industry for a living (as opposed to armchair quarterbacking on a forum) have to say on the subject.

I've seen nothing positive about the Japanese games industry coming from Japan in recent years. Yoichi Wada, people at Namco, people at Konami including Kojima and Akira Yamaoka have all commented that Japan is falling behind. And sure, to some degree the generational shift surely caused some problems, as well as confusion over the handheld leanings of the east and the console/pc leanings of the west. But the people in Japan cite other important factors as well that most here gloss over because it doesn't fit into their console warrior agendas. One thing that's been mentioned is the fact that the games industry itself in japan is aging and the appeal of the industry is shrinking in the younger generation, take for instance this statement by Akira Yamaoka:

"There are two reasons I think. One is that the development environment in Japan is divided into developers and publishers. Publishers have to create a game in a short amount of time at low cost, and it's a lot of pressure on them in that respect, and they pass that on to the developers. So basically it has to be done as quickly and cheaply as possible. And the people doing this are getting old like me. And tired! And the salary isn't that great.

So you've got pressure on these people to perform like they did when they were 20, and it's just not possible. I look at a game magazine, and I see interviews with the "important creators," like Mr. Sakaguchi. He's a great game creator, but he's not young. And I don't see many young game creators in Japan. Then I look at the west, and I see all these young guys coming up so fast, it's just amazing.

And what did he have to say about the development resources in general?

The second reason is that... well for example, on another project [we] were in development for a while, and we realized that we needed a new driver for some graphics program. That happens of course. So we looked around for it, and we found it, OK. Same maker, same everything, should be fine right? But the problem is they're all in English. So we get this thing and we have to localize it into Japanese.

So we don't have a lot of people who can understand English deeply enough for something like that, so that reduces speed. And while we're waiting for that, we're already a step behind everyone else who can understand it intuitively. This sort of thing builds up, and we just fall further behind. I mean of course we can understand it once we know what it says, but this falling behind really affects the quality of what we can do. So that's the second big problem."

And this is all general stuff that effects the entire industry over there. Unless japan shifts it;s development efficiency and shifts it's means of employee retention/acquiring/appeal in the first place, how long do you people who think that because you enjoy a fair number of DS and pSP titles that even those platforms won't start to see the effects that we've seen on the larger scale home console games?

 

[DeVeAn]

I really think Inafune was just talking out of his ass. Its just the way the game industry works. Right now, its the FPS. in the 90's it was Fighters, early 90's 2D platformers. The consumer decides whats big at the time. Right now its not really JRPG's. Japanese games will never be finished, I just don't see it happening.

 

[2 Minutes Turkish]

I really think Inafune was just talking out of his ass. Its just the way the game industry works. Right now, its the FPS. in the 90's it was Fighters, early 90's 2D platformers. The consumer decides whats big at the time. Right now its not really JRPG's. Japanese games will never be finished, I just don't see it happening.

Read the post above yours. I think you missed the point. It's not a genre thing.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Also has a lot to do with how people who stick at the same companies for a very long time, while here devs change company all the time, change country, etc., so expertise, experience, etc., is shared among all devs. And at all time, these same devs communicate with one another even when they don't work at the same companies, on forums, blogs, at shows like the GDC or Siggraph, etc. Japan is a closed working environment. Every Japanese should know English as a second language. It's not very difficult for Europeans or many other countries, even in Asia, so why not Japan? That would already make the biggest difference.

 

[Prine]

I think the move to networked games has also doomed Japan. They are very behind here. I played DOA4, MGS4, RE5, Lost Planet. RE5 being the only decent contribution, which by western standards isnt so great.

 

[GhaleonQ]

And this is all general stuff that effects the entire industry over there. Unless japan shifts it;s development efficiency and shifts it's means of employee retention/acquiring/appeal in the first place, how long do you people who think that because you enjoy a fair number of DS and pSP titles that even those platforms won't start to see the effects that we've seen on the larger scale home console games?

That has as much to do with its demographic and political problems as a whole as any deficiencies with its video game industry. It's FAR too complex for any of us to analyze.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

I also think there needs to be a middle ground; a company that can appeal to both sides of the world and still make a profit without giving up its cultural identity, even if it is appealing to a niche audience. The only company that I think has successfully pulled this off is Atlus, at least they seem pretty happy with how their games are doing worldwide.

 

[Mega Mike]

Keiji has a point. Some of the biggest japanese devs right now are rehashing the same stuff over and over again. Not only rehashing, but putting out half assed efforts. Look at Square Enix, this console gen, they have had more shovelware (yes, i said shovel) titles than actual good hits. Sure they have titles like the standard FF franchise, or TWEWY, but look at all the half assed efforts.

Capcom is really one of the FEW companies doing something fresh. LP and DR are examples of them going out of their comfort level and actually deving good games. Though Zack and Wiki was a flop, thats just some of the fresh ideas coming out of Capcom. IMO they have saved this generation from failing hard. Like it or not Keiji speaks the truth.

 

[..pakbeka..]

mr. inafune, where are my megaman games?

 

[Fimbulvetr]

all the half assed efforts.

Okay, Last Remnant and....

Really, Square just has terribly long dev schedules.

 

[Spire]

I don't know about finished, but they've been in the shitter for awhile now. The last japanese developed game I really loved was Resident Evil 4. Ten years ago probably 80-90% of the games I played were developed in Japan, these days it's the exact opposite.

 

[RurouniZel]

Half the reason Traditional JRPGs aren't selling as well in Japan as they used to... is because the typical JRPG today is hardly traditional. Dragon Quest sells nearly 4 million, and is still strictly turn-based. Everyone else is trying to be Final Fantasy or Tales of, with pseudo real-time, complex/timed button pressing stuff that's trying to be FAR more complicated than its worth. Most of the stuff that is strictly turned based is low quality, but for reasons other than the battle system.

Strictly turn-based. High quality. Not on 360 (unless 200,000 max is your goal), and Japanese people will come.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Truth.

Capcom is almost single handedly leading Japans Current Gen force. Konami has dropped te ball for real. MGS4 was great and Silent Hill Shattered Memories (developed by a western studio) looks to be great but other than that what else as there been?? Sega is doing their part on the publishing part but as far as developing?? That Valkyria Chronicles was good but not a mass success. And Sonic....yeah. Namco Bandai and Marvelous are still doing their good but niche games and Square takes like 5 fucking years to put anything out

It truly is is a state of despair in that country.

Sadly, this is so factual to the point where it is scary. I will say this, it seems like Western developers have a much better grasp on the current generation hardware than Japanese developers do meaning that they unfortunately produce fewer games. Imo, that is the primary reason they are pulling ahead of Japanese developers. Btw, who are Marvelous?? I don't think I have ever heard of them.

 

[gundamzeta209]

Okay, Last Remnant and....

Project sylpheed.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

Project Sylpheed.

Which was developed by.... Game Arts.

I'll give you one thing, Square has terrible sense when it comes to publishing games.:lol

Sega seems to be the opposite this gen.

 

[neojubei]

This is such a good post, I have to quote it.

With that said, this thread has definitely turned itself into two evil beasts.
-East vs. West
-Handheld Console vs. Home Console

It is a combination of two things that people have such strong emotion for, but take it way too seriously for their own good.

Main reason why I do not engage in these threads, at first it will be discussing bad game design, then Japanese main male characters, then Japanese people/culture itself until someone brings up WWII.

Personally I like Japanese made game but like all games some are good and some are not.

 

[DjangoReinhardt]

I don't understand this. MGS4 had the best control scheme of the entire series, it was incredibly easy and intuitive. It almost made the rest of the entire game too easy because of it.

Not for what they are trying to do.

They don't (usually) try to be full 3D games with real-time combat like the game you listed.
As they are designed, the 'usability' of the game is not a problem in most cases.

Here's the thing: You're both part of the choir to whom Japanese developers are preaching. Do you honestly believe jRPGs or MGS are intuitive and usable relative to other games on their own merits, or is it just because you're used to their quirks? I can navigate through the awkwardness, too, but that doesn't mean the games aren't awkward. When I play those games, I see design decisions that should have been corrected a long time ago.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I don't understand a lot of the replies in the this thread.

In response to the decline of Japanese console gaming relevance\, the bulk statements seem to be "I play Japanese games, or I solely play japanese games, so it's not irrelevant".

I listen to Traditional Jazz, does that mean Jazz isn't basically irrelevant as a Sales driving or commercially viable medium? Obviously my tastes mean nothing to impact the American Music market.

The problem with Japanese Games is plainly evident in this thread. They appeal to an eccentric and small group of cult followers in the united states. Hanger-on-ers of the Old Anime movement in the 90's, when Anime had a more hipsterish appeal than the childish appeal of today.

Most people today associate the Japanese Anime-look with Dragon ball Z or Pokemon. They see it a children's medium. It's not the 90's where Anime was culturally represented by the adult-themed shoes of Akira or Robotech. These childish connotations are made worse by the current use of effeminate male leads that many Americans simply can't relate to. These aesthetic flaws, unfortunately, are just but one factor in their demise on the console realm. There are many more.

If you're talking about sales relevance, I encourage you to go check a list of the top selling games of this generation in America. Japanese gaming is far from irrelevant saleswise. August's NPD Top Ten shows five of the top ten selling games are Japanese, compared to three versions of one American game and two versions of a European game.

Nine of the top ten Wii games this generation are Japanese. Ten out of the top ten DS games are Japanese. Sure, they're less prevalent on the HD lists, but the top ten selling games of the overall generation are 8/10 Japanese. HD gaming is more of a niche than Japanese games, at this point.

It seems pretty ridiculous how whenever the discussion of Japanese games and their relevance happens around here, everyone leaves Nintendo out. Why? They are the very epitome of the Japanese gaming company. Talking about the success of Japanese gaming without talking about Nintendo is like talking about the success of American gaming without talking about Activision.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Here's the thing: You're both part of the choir to whom Japanese developers are preaching. Do you honestly believe jRPGs or MGS are intuitive and usable relative to other games on their own merits, or is it just because you're used to their quirks? I can navigate through the awkwardness, too, but that doesn't mean the games aren't awkward. When I play those games, I see design decisions that should have been corrected a long time ago.

There's a difference between correcting design decisions and killing off an entire genre. I think I'll let this comic explain my point. Just to be clear, I hate the game it's defending but the same argument can be used for good games in the genre as well.

 

[Opiate]

If you're talking about sales relevance, I encourage you to go check a list of the top selling games of this generation in America. Japanese gaming is far from irrelevant saleswise. August's NPD Top Ten shows five of the top ten selling games are Japanese, compared to three versions of one American game and two versions of a European game.

Nine of the top ten Wii games this generation are Japanese. Ten out of the top ten DS games are Japanese. Sure, they're less prevalent on the HD lists, but the top ten selling games of the overall generation are 8/10 Japanese. HD gaming is more of a niche than Japanese games, at this point.

It seems pretty ridiculous how whenever the discussion of Japanese games and their relevance happens around here, everyone leaves Nintendo out. Why? They are the very epitome of the Japanese gaming company. Talking about the success of Japanese gaming without talking about Nintendo is like talking about the success of American gaming without talking about Activision.

I would consider these the "relevant" platforms this generation:

DS
PSP
iPhone
Wii
Xbox 360
Playstation 3

Of these platforms, the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 are the worst selling of the bunch, and by a wide margin (the next on the list is either the Wii or PSP, at >50 million, which means Xbox/PS3 are more than 20 million behind the next smallest install base).

My claim is: Japanese publishers are dominating most of the highly successful platforms. I think a lot of people are still stuck in the mentality where home consoles are king (specifically, traditional home consoles), but that simply isn't the case anymore. The platforms that helped companies like EA and Activision grow -- PS1, PS2, Sega Genesis -- are now what are causing EA to shrink rapidly, Midway to close, and Eidos to be subsumed. In the meantime, handheld systems and casual-centric platforms are doing exceptionally well.

So congratulations to Western Developers for finally winning over US "hardcore" gamers, I guess.

 

[Tiktaalik]

It seems pretty ridiculous how whenever the discussion of Japanese games and their relevance happens around here, everyone leaves Nintendo out. Why? They are the very epitome of the Japanese gaming company. Talking about the success of Japanese gaming without talking about Nintendo is like talking about the success of American gaming without talking about Activision.

Yeah I see what you're saying here.

The problem with this thread is that Inafune was talking about the poor games shown at TGS and saying that the Japanese gaming industry was having a poor showing as a result. Nintendo obviously doesn't show at TGS and so obviously Inafune wasn't talking about Nintendo.

Most of the folks in this thread have jumped into an argument not about the Japanese games shown at TGS, but about Japanese games in general.

Certainly Nintendo has been doing quite well, as has Capcom and Level 5. I'd agree with Inafune that most other Japanese companies are not on the right track. Unfortunately most people this thread seem to be making broad generalizations about the entire Japanese and NA game industry. Folks should be talking about just what we've been seeing at TGS.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Yeah I see what you're saying here.

The problem with this thread is that Inafune was talking about the poor games shown at TGS and saying that the Japanese gaming industry was having a poor showing as a result. Nintendo obviously doesn't show at TGS and so obviously Inafune wasn't talking about Nintendo.

Most of the folks in this thread have jumped into an argument not about the Japanese games shown at TGS, but about Japanese games in general.

Certainly Nintendo has been doing quite well, as has Capcom and Level 5. I'd agree with Inafune that most other Japanese companies are not on the right track. Unfortunately most people this thread seem to be making broad generalizations about the entire Japanese and NA game industry. Folks should be talking about just what we've been seeing at TGS.

And I think this pretty well explains why TGS is seeming a bit empty these days. Nintendo isn't there, but Nintendo is more important than ever right now. Back when Sony was ruling the roost, Nintendo not being there wasn't a big deal.

I think Inafune's comments are coming from the wrong place, too. Like Kojima, he's an America-otaku, which makes his comments come off pretty suspicious when he gets on the topic. A fair number of Japanese companies seem to have lost the plot, but judging it from the show is kind of goofy. Imagine if we based our beliefs about the American game industry on E3 of the past few years.

 

[Pureauthor]

And I think this pretty well explains why TGS is seeming a bit empty these days. Nintendo isn't there, but Nintendo is more important than ever right now. Back when Sony was ruling the roost, Nintendo not being there wasn't a big deal.

I think Inafune's comments are coming from the wrong place, too. Like Kojima, he's an America-otaku, which makes his comments come off pretty suspicious when he gets on the topic. A fair number of Japanese companies seem to have lost the plot, but judging it from the show is kind of goofy. Imagine if we based our beliefs about the American game industry on E3 of the past few years.

Well, aside from E3 09, the last few years were lousy showings.

And the American game industry is likewise having a lousy showing, at least financially speaking.

So yeah.

 

[Tiktaalik]

I don't know I think Inafune is right. RE5 sold boat loads of copies worldwide, meanwhile Namco is releasing two more Tales of games which will sell ho hum numbers in Japan and nothing elsewhere. I see where he's coming from.

Japan 3rd parties should be expanding their thinking.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Well, aside from E3 09, the last few years were lousy showings.

And the American game industry is likewise having a lousy showing, at least financially speaking.

So yeah.

But no one seems to be saying American companies have "lost their way" or whatever the nonsense rhetoric in this thread is.

 

[Pureauthor]

But no one seems to be saying American companies have "lost their way" or whatever the nonsense rhetoric in this thread is.

It's odd, really. Japanese companies are the companies that are making money right now, whereas Western companies are bleeding like crazy.

Yet everyone is pooh-poohing the Japanese game industry. It's just... odd.

 

[Opiate]

It's odd, really. Japanese companies are the companies that are making money right now, whereas Western companies are bleeding like crazy.

Yet everyone is pooh-poohing the Japanese game industry. It's just... odd.

The term that will be thrown around is "mindshare."

As far as I can tell, this is a euphemism for "influence among enthusiast home console owners."

 

[Tiktaalik]

It's odd, really. Japanese companies are the companies that are making money right now, whereas Western companies are bleeding like crazy.

Yet everyone is pooh-poohing the Japanese game industry. It's just... odd.

Personally I've been willing to give EA a pass on their troubles since they've been in the middle of a restructuring.

Activision is doing well

Take Two isn't. (though they've had long term management issues)

THQ isn't (they've lost their Pixar license)

and Ubisoft is doing fine.

NA companies aren't in the worst shape.

I think a lot of the consensus about NA companies being in fine shape is due to critical acclaim, not necessarily about profitability. EA is still on the road back to the black, and based on what they've been doing in the last several months, I like that company much more than Konami and Namco.

I think it should be kept in mind that business analysts are much more interested in where a company is going in the future than where they are right now.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Ubi's a European company.

The only American publisher doing well right now is ActiBlizzard. Even worse, we're seeing a hell of a lot of American developers having to close their doors. I don't think the future is bright for most of them.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Ubi's a European company.

The only American publisher doing well right now is ActiBlizzard. Even worse, we're seeing a hell of a lot of American developers having to close their doors. I don't think the future is bright for most of them.

Yeah I lump in Ubi with NA since they have such major investments in NA (Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto).

Definitely a ton of NA studios have shut down. I live in Vancouver. I've seen it first hand and it's really bad.

I'm curious whether the Japanese companies have been laying off heavily as well. I look at companies such as Konami and it seems to me that they're not doing as much as they used to and I wonder if they've scaled back on some projects as well.

Layoffs don't necessarily mean the company is on the downturn though. EA for example laid off a ton of folks in Vancouver, yet at the same time released EA Sports Active, NHL 10 and FIFA 10 which have all been very highly regarded critically.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Yeah I lump in Ubi with NA since they have such major investments in NA (Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto).

Definitely a ton of NA studios have shut down. I live in Vancouver. I've seen it first hand and it's really bad.

I'm curious whether the Japanese companies have been laying off heavily as well. I look at companies such as Konami and it seems to me that they're not doing as much as they used to and I wonder if they've scaled back on some projects as well.

Layoffs don't necessarily mean the company is on the downturn though. EA for example laid off a ton of folks in Vancouver, yet at the same time released EA Sports Active, NHL 10 and FIFA 10 which have all been very highly regarded critically.

Japanese companies are typically really really hesitant to lay people off, but in the current economic situation, many of them will have had to. We just don't hear about it. I know Sony laid off a metric crapton of people earlier this year.

 

[Opiate]

Personally I've been willing to give EA a pass on their troubles since they've been in the middle of a restructuring.

Activision is doing well

Take Two isn't. (though they've had long term management issues)

THQ isn't (they've lost their Pixar license)

and Ubisoft is doing fine.

NA companies aren't in the worst shape.

I think a lot of the consensus about NA companies being in fine shape is due to critical acclaim, not necessarily about profitability. EA is still on the road back to the black, and based on what they've been doing in the last several months, I like that company much more than Konami and Namco.

I think it should be kept in mind that business analysts are much more interested in where a company is going in the future than where they are right now.

EA is restructuring because of their troubles.

Otherwise, you've missed Midway, Eidos, Atari/Infrogrames, Disney, Microsoft, and LucasArts in the top 20 largest publishers. Of all those named, the only ones who have made money this generation are Activison, Ubisoft, and presumably Disney. Eidos has been subsumed. Midway is out of business. Atari appears to be headed in that direction, Microsoft has lost billions, although they are in no danger for obvious reasons. Just as we don't know with certainty how Disney is doing (their profits are obscured by other ventures), we don't know how LucasArts is doing, but it's a safe bet it's "not well," given that they laid off more than 50% of internal staff.

Compare this to Japanese publishers: Squaresoft, Nintendo, Capcom, Sega, Konami, and Namco Bandai. Of these, the only one which has lost money this generation is the perennial loser, Sega.

 

[Brofist]

It's odd, really. Japanese companies are the companies that are making money right now, whereas Western companies are bleeding like crazy.

Yet everyone is pooh-poohing the Japanese game industry. It's just... odd.

His comments really didn't have much to do with sales though. More about the quality of the games. If you look at his quote in Japanese he basically says it was a boring show game wise.

Of course that brings in a bunch of people saying bu bu but I have more Japanese games than others. That's kinda missing the point.

 

[Tiktaalik]

EA is restructuring because of their troubles.

Otherwise, you've missed Midway, Eidos, Atari/Infrogrames, Disney, Microsoft, and LucasArts in the top 20 largest publishers. Of all those named, the only ones who have made money this generation are Activison, Ubisoft, and presumably Disney. Eidos has been subsumed. Midway is out of business. Atari appears to be headed in that direction, Microsoft has lost billions, although they are in no danger for obvious reasons. Just as we don't know with certainty how Disney is doing (their profits are obscured by other ventures), we don't know how LucasArts is doing, but it's a safe bet it's "not well," given that they laid off more than 50% of internal staff.

Compare this to Japanese publishers: Squaresoft, Nintendo, Capcom, Sega, Konami, and Namco Bandai. Of these, the only one which has lost money this generation is the perennial loser, Sega.

Midway and Atari were losing money in the last generation.

The feeling I'm getting at is that it at least feels like many NA companies are exploring new things and trying to figure out how to make more money in a changing market, whereas many Japanese companies are being very conservative and doing the same thing. Maybe some NA companies will fail but others will succeed spectacularly.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

His comments really didn't have much to do with sales though. More about the quality of the games. If you look at his quote in Japanese he basically says it was a boring show game wise.

Of course that brings in a bunch of people saying bu bu but I have more Japanese games than others. That's kinda missing the point.

What is the point? If all we limit ourselves to is that one guy didn't find too many games he liked at a trade show, there's not much of a discussion here. Probably why this turned into the usual GAF East VS West Debate-o-rama.

 

[Opiate]

Midway and Atari were losing money in the last generation.

The feeling I'm getting at is that it at least feels like many NA companies are exploring new things and trying to figure out how to make more money in a changing market, whereas many Japanese companies are being very conservative and doing the same thing. Maybe some NA companies will fail but others will succeed spectacularly.

Possible, but virtually every argument I ever get against my math is essentially what you've penned here. A sense that somewhere, in the vague, unknown future, things will be different and some American company will be doing amazingly and these Japanese companies will fail.

And yet, we keep moving along, with EA losing more money, and more studios closing (most recent being GRIN, yes? Or has there been another since?) I'm not saying you're wrong, but that's in part because anything is possible in that vague, unknown future. Uganda could become the center of the gaming universe.

What we have available to us now says: Western publishers are struggling and, on the whole, shrinking. Amazingly, it was the last two generations where Western publishers really shined. It was the PS1/PS2 that built EA/Take 2/Activision in to behemoths.

 

[karasu]

There aren't many interesting games coming out from any region. Nothing but a bunch of fucking franchises from America, Japan, and everywhere.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

His comments really didn't have much to do with sales though. More about the quality of the games. If you look at his quote in Japanese he basically says it was a boring show game wise.

Of course that brings in a bunch of people saying bu bu but I have more Japanese games than others. That's kinda missing the point.

Or "there are new and interesting games on handhelds."

"handhelds don't count".

There aren't many original games coming out from any region. Nothing but a bunch of fucking franchises from America, Japan, and everywhere.

So much truth after my little edit.