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[Yagharek]

Why is this a surprise? Namco have gone to shit. Sega oscillate between shit and occasional brilliance. Koei are still making the same titles they did 9 years ago. Konami have one or two big series that whilst good arent to everyone's taste. Square have a vastly over-inflated sense of self-importance, and budgets to match. Capcom are the exception amongst the major third party devs, with only one or two black sheep amongst their games this gen.

Sony and Nintendo first party dev efforts have been solid though, as per usual.

 

[HK-47]

Megaman ZX. You forgot those.

Completely average Mega Man games that no one cares about. And they have pretty much given up on handheld Mega Man for the time being.

 

[HK-47]

I'd actually like to see more strong female protagonists in video games. Jade from BG&E comes to mind, but as we all know, BG&E failed to sell. I hope Bayonetta catches on but...

You lost me at Bayonetta, unless you meant stereotyped male fantasy characters instead of strong female characters.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

What he said seemed to be in the context of it being a general knee-jerk impression. In any case, unless you're one of the few enjoying success and still putting out somewhat ambitious games that aren't just Dynasty Beaters XXXIIV: Imma Get Feudal On Yer Ass Special International Edition or Pokemon Remake Remake Red and Greedy Greedy Green, you're probably not far away from having your employer fold in a shrinking market with not-so-positive prospects for overseas sales. Really, the game industry, in general, is suckin' ass all over the world.

 

[Black-Wind]

I knew TGS sucked when I didn't get any info on the one game Im looking forward to other then ToG and FFCC.

(That game is Rune Factory 3!)

 

[Tiktaalik]

I like how people's arguments against Inafune's comments are essentially boiling down to, "well he's wrong because I only play Japanese games."

 

[timetokill]

Well, Nintendo kind of drank everyone's milkshake this generation.

 

[speedpop]

Keiji Inafune is a hack.

 

[Regulus Tera]

I like how people's arguments against Inafune's comments are essentially boiling down to, "well he's wrong because I only play Japanese games."

As opposed to all the people saying "well he's right because I only play Western games"?

if that's that. You're missing out BIG TIME.

so THERE

im sorry i cannot hear you over all the fun im having with mario & luigi 3 kthx bai

 

[Haunted]

Yes, a bunch of significant Japanese third parties drove into a ditch thinking Sony's headlights were working. Capcom's driving an ATV, they always steer into a ditch and come out just fine, so of course they're not loaded down with problems. They drive wherever they want, through the Saturn swamps, over the GameCube hills, and their suspension always holds up.

As for the rest of the industry, they'll be fine if they get back on the fucking highway. Level-5's sport compact seems to be cruising down I-419!

Fantastic analogy.

While Inafune's remarks may seem harsh, he's not alone in his feelings -- many we've spoken to have told us they were underwhelmed by this year's shows. It's certainly smaller in size, and many Japanese developers (some due mainly to financial reasons) have chosen not to attend this year's show.

Which devs weren't at TGS?

 

[mikekennyb]

I've always put Nintendo games in their own little bubble as far as being "Japanese style" games. Nintendo games have an extremely broad, Disney like appeal. Can't say the same for any other publisher, Western or otherwise.

Most of the Japanese development scene though continues to produce games that are for more and more niche audiences. Or they have trouble putting out games at all (Square Enix HD console RPG's say hello).

 

[ShineALight]

I've always put Nintendo games in their own little bubble as far as being "Japanese style" games. Nintendo games have an extremely broad, Disney like appeal. Can't say the same for any other publisher, Western or otherwise.

Exactly this. They're a Japanese company but they produce a very global product.

 

[GitarooMan]

I think it's hard to argue against the fact that Japanese third-party developers have on the whole steadily declined in influence over the last few years, it's been almost a nosedive this gen. Throw in the fact that Sony's Japanese first party studios can't get their head out of their ass and are molasses slow in development and....

The near collapse of Konami as a relevent developer outside of Kojima has really been one of the surprise things for me.

 

[Tiktaalik]

As opposed to all the people saying "well he's right because I only play Western games"?



im sorry i cannot hear you over all the fun im having with mario & luigi 3 kthx bai

I'm playing Mario and Luigi 3* as well and loving it, but if you try to think about what we've actually seen at TGS this year, especially from Inafune's perspective as an high up person at Capcom I think you can at least attempt to understand where he's coming from. It's not necessary to look at this from a black/white, Japan/NA gaming perspective.

The Japanese market has shrunk and Inafune is looking around knowing this and wondering, "Hey has no one noticed that the market has changed? Why are you all making the exact sort of games as before?" In some instances, such as with Koei Tecmo this is nearly exactly true, as they seem to be releasing a bunch of new iterations of the same Dynasty Warriors game we've all played before. In other situations it's a situation of companies releasing sequels to the same niche, japan focused, hardcore IPs. I would point to the two Tales of games as an example of this.

As well he's gotta be looking at several of the Monster Hunter copycats and thinking, "This is innovation in Japan? Copying Capcom's IPs?"

Possibly as well you have to consider that he's been in the Japanese gaming industry for a long time. It must be disturbing for him to that most of SquareEnix's output is made up of either ports of their classic titles, or Final Fantasy sequels numbering in the teens.

Absolutely there are great Japanese games out there, but I think with an open mind I think there are a lot of things that could be disappointing about the TGS showing of many 3rd parties.


*Important to recall that Nintendo isn't at TGS.

 

[speedpop]

The near collapse of Konami as a relevent developer outside of Kojima has really been one of the surprise things for me.

Konami were never a big company to begin with. Outside of Kojima pumping out Snatcher, Policenauts and MGS, the only thing they had that was worth a damn was Suikoden - a series that was created during the PS1 era.

As well he's gotta be looking at several of the Monster Hunter copycats and thinking, "This is innovation in Japan? Copying Capcom's IPs?"

Possibly as well you have to consider that he's been in the Japanese gaming industry for a long time. It must be disturbing for him to that most of SquareEnix's output is made up of either ports of their classic titles, or Final Fantasy sequels numbering in the teens.

Yet Inafune giving a helping hand to pump out countless Mega Man titles back in the day is ok?

 

[BoilersFan23]

I think alot of the blame for the depressing TGS can be blamed on Sony. The keynote and press conference just put a damper on things.

I don't blame them. Technically a keynote is an introducing everyone to a game show and talking about the company's current status in the industry, not a major press conference. Previous years when Sony was giving a Keynote, there wasn't really a big announcement outside of Dual Shock 3 (which we all knew was coming) and the 20GB getting HDMI + pricecut during the Q&A session in Japan. MS last year only announced that Tekken 6 was going multi-platform (with a mixture of stuff we already knew). Now E3/Gamescon presentation were actually considered true press conferences before they even started, which meant you would most likely see lots of announcements. I guarantee next year, people will get hyped up over whatever keynote is going on and will be disappointed again.

Anyway, I won't say the Japanese market is done, but it definitely has declined this generation and it shows. Previously a huge percentage of my game collection was Japanese. Now it seems to be less than half.

I think it's hard to argue against the fact that Japanese third-party developers have on the whole steadily declined in influence over the last few years, it's been almost a nosedive this gen. Throw in the fact that Sony's Japanese first party studios can't get their head out of their ass and are molasses slow in development and....

The near collapse of Konami as a relevent developer outside of Kojima has really been one of the surprise things for me.

Actually, over the years Sony mostly published Japanese made games in Japan. This gen they have published less (possibly because PS3 development kits were just too expensive to many smaller devs, I remember SNK and Hudson Soft stated that and wouldn't start PS3 retail game development until 2009). Sony's first parties are actually making games, but most are on PSP instead of PS3, while the majority of their western teams develop on PS3. Yoshida himself once said that Japanese devs have fallen behind in technology, which partially explains why Sony just doesn't have as many Japanese developed games on PS3 (since there just aren't that many devs who can produce high-end games).

 

[Regulus Tera]

I'm playing Mario and Luigi 3* as well and loving it, but if you try to think about what we've actually seen at TGS this year, especially from Inafune's perspective as an high up person at Capcom I think you can at least attempt to understand where he's coming from. It's not necessary to look at this from a black/white, Japan/NA gaming perspective.

The Japanese market has shrunk and Inafune is looking around knowing this and wondering, "Hey has no one noticed that the market has changed? Why are you all making the exact sort of games as before?" In some instances, such as with Koei Tecmo this is nearly exactly true, as they seem to be releasing a bunch of new iterations of the same Dynasty Warriors game we've all played before. In other situations it's a situation of companies releasing sequels to the same niche, japan focused, hardcore IPs. I would point to the two Tales of games as an example of this.

As well he's gotta be looking at several of the Monster Hunter copycats and thinking, "This is innovation in Japan? Copying Capcom's IPs?"

Possibly as well you have to consider that he's been in the Japanese gaming industry for a long time. It must be disturbing for him to that most of SquareEnix's output is made up of either ports of their classic titles, or Final Fantasy sequels numbering in the teens.

Absolutely there are great Japanese games out there, but I think with an open mind I think there are a lot of things that could be disappointing about the TGS showing of many 3rd parties.


*Important to recall that Nintendo isn't at TGS.

Shit dude I think I gotta start italicising my posts for levels of sardonicism.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Yet Inafune giving a helping hand to pump out countless Mega Man titles back in the day is ok?

Why are you bringing up stuff from the NES/SNES era when we're talking about this year's TGS?

 

[Black Rainbow]

I've always put Nintendo games in their own little bubble as far as being "Japanese style" games. Nintendo games have an extremely broad, Disney like appeal. Can't say the same for any other publisher, Western or otherwise.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You lost me at Bayonetta, unless you meant stereotyped male fantasy characters instead of strong female characters.

Yes, perhaps Bayonetta is not the best example of a strong female protagonist considering that she is, arguably, a bit sexualized. Then again, who's to say that a woman can't be sexy and also have a deep and complex personality?

Spoiler

According to her character designer, Mari Shimazaki, Bayonetta has the same proportions of a supermodel.

 

[[Nintex]]

It's kinda hard to see the state of the Japanese games industry when the biggest part of it has social phobia and only comes out of their cave once a year.

 

[Kuran]

Was there any mention at TGS of a new game in the Siren series?

 

[speedpop]

Why are you bringing up stuff from the NES/SNES era when we're talking about this year's TGS?

Because obviously Inafune's vast history in Japanese development (as you stated) commands some respect when, as I so eloquently pointed out, he's as guilty as those he is painting on the canvas. He is nothing but a hypocritical twat.

 

[GavinGT]

Oh my god, many japanese games are made for the domestic market, and may not appeal worldwide?! This is shocking. That's nothing like American games, which sell like gangbusters in Japan...right? RIGHT?!

That's part of the problem, though. Some Japanese devs don't know how to make games that have universal appeal. Therefore, they continue making games for the ailing Japanese market.

On the other hand, it's perfectly fine if a western-developed game doesn't sell in Japan. They lose very little.

 

[thetrin]

What does this mean on a basic level though? That Japanese developers/gamers do not care for western games, regardless of quality, and Japanese publishers mistakenly overlook overseas markets. I don't see how either of those can be good things, for the gaming public or the publishers.

I think Inafune has been making comments of this nature for at least a year or two and I think he makes a good point.

How is this different from America in regards to Japan? Japan is a shrinking market, no question, but if you were to look at this in a vacuum, this is american exceptionalism at its best.

America doesn't make games for a global market. They make games for America. Europe makes games for Europe. Japan makes games for Japan. American gamers don't like what Japan makes anymore, and now we want Japan to make games like America does? If that is that we're suggesting, I don't want it. American devs make great games, but if we all start making only what American brodudes want, a lot of what I love about the multiculturalism of gaming will be lost.

I'm not an economist. I don't really care about money made. I care about Japan making games that appeal to Japanese gamers, because that inherently means making games that are not American. Capcom is very much into making games for the "global market", which is a great idea for AAA games, but not every game is, or should be, AAA (budget wise). To be honest, the best games out of Japan in the last 3-4 years have been its smaller games. A lot of its DS titles are what have continually renewed my interest in its regional library, and to say the country's industry is dead because it's not making Hollywood blockbuster games is like saying anime is dead because they're not making Pixar films.

That's part of the problem, though. Some Japanese devs don't know how to make games that have universal appeal. Therefore, they continue making games for the ailing Japanese market.

On the other hand, it's perfectly fine if a western-developed game doesn't sell in Japan. They lose very little.

I guess I'm just a multicultural idealist. I don't want them to make shit that appeals to the american market, because the american market has a very very narrow view of what makes up a great game. Very, very, very narrow.

I'd rather every region focus on what they're good at, what their region enjoys, and have everyone just expand their horizons.

I know it's idealism, but the alternative is an apocalypse to me.

 

[jump_button]

I feel like Japanese devs are trying to be somthing they are not, Japaneses games need to be made for Japaneses and not try and make the us happy.

as long as games like ICO still get made Japaneses games will never die games like that will never get made over here

 

[thetrin]

I feel like Japanese devs are trying to be somthing they are not, Japaneses games need to be made for Japaneses and not try and make the us happy.

as long as games like ICO still get made Japaneses games will never die games like that will never get made over here

Oh look, someone who gets it. huh. Didn't see that coming.

 

[swerve]

Nintendo is a cash machine, RE5 sold a billion, MGS4 was a true "system seller" success on PS3, DQIX sold a shit-ton. I don't see the problem. TGS may be dead, but Japan isn't.

Japan didn't used to be admired for putting out two or three new sequels to established franchises each year, did it?

 

[thetrin]

Japan didn't used to be admired for putting out two or three new sequels to established franchises each year, did it?

It's the money machine. What made Japan so memorable as a gaming region (the quirky and strange games, the cultural influence) is not, and never was, as bankable as large companies need it to be.

Shocker: Japanese culture is strange and weird for foreigners.

 

[duckroll]

I think Inafune needs to stfu. Seriously. He's suffering from foot-in-mouth disease these days. Someone should ask him at the next interview about why Capcom is suddenly doing a sequel to Okami now. Since he decided to talk shit the last time and said Capcom is not "desperate" enough to need to use any of Clover's IPs.

 

[Shiggy]

That guy doesn't seem to know that Japanese video game company called Nintendo. To be fair, he doesn't have to - they weren't at TGS.

 

[ShineALight]

How is this different from America in regards to Japan? Japan is a shrinking market, no question, but if you were to look at this in a vacuum, this is american exceptionalism at its best.

America doesn't make games for a global market. They make games for America. Europe makes games for Europe. Japan makes games for Japan. American gamers don't like what Japan makes anymore, and now we want Japan to make games like America does? If that is that we're suggesting, I don't want it. America games great games, but if we all start making only what American brodudes want, a lot of what I love about the multiculturalism of gaming will be lost.

I don't disagree with you. Even as an American and a fan of western games, currently on the menu is Mario & Luigi and Muramasa, the second of which being a very Japanese game. I hope they keep making those sorts of games, I'm enjoying both.

I can't say that their design philosophy is "flawed" or anything, I don't like to fall into the category of forum-dwelling twenty-something that think they have all the answers. I think the one key difference though is that western gamers and developers on a steady diet of Japanese games. Western games have benefited from a Japanese influence. There has been and still is a huge potential market for them over here.

But why would the west make "Japanese" styled games? There's never been a market for that, not in Japan. Aside from a small pocket of "hardcore" gamers there, there doesn't seem to be interest in the "western" experience of console games (though recently Gears 2 sold decently) at all. Was there ever any question that the 360 would take third place in Japan, regardless of library, features or price point? Isn't that suggestive of a bit of xenophobia? How could that be good for them?

I'm not asking that every company start producing "brodude" games. I don't play "brodude" games personally (but that doesn't mean I think they should stop making them), I think that's an unfair generalization (though I don't think you believe all American games are "brodude") but there are a lot of creative, innovative games produced here, beyond the yearly sports rehashes and cookie-cutter FPSes. Just like there's a lot of innovative games being produced in Japan. I just wish that good western games weren't sent to die there and that Japanese developers were more open to the idea of learning from western games, like Inafune (and Capcom at large) is.

Just saw your edit and I agree with what you said. Again, my favorite game this year is Little King's Story and my favorite system may be the DS. I probably appreciate a lot of the same things you do. I usually can't garner up excitement for a lot of the "AAA" games released these days because they're so overblown, "mature" and desperately cinematic. My thesis (if I had one) would be that I'd just like to see a little bit more cultural reciprocation and mutual appreciation between the west and Japan in regards to game making and I feel like an important step in that is the Japanese opening their hearts (and wallets) for western games. Which, from time to time, turn out to be really, really good games.

 

[TheSeks]

Uh...kinda easy to prove this. Are sales of Japanese games worldwide up or down from last gen? I think many Japanese devs are going to eventually go the way of the dinosaur, outsourcing their money making IP's to western studios.

And have them turn out to be another Bionic Commando? No thanks, Japan. I rather have you bomb/die and take your IPs with you than have Western Developers that don't "get it" with your games.

Example: Front Mission Evolved (though that's more Square trying to kill their own franchise more than anything).

 

[thetrin]

I don't disagree with you. Even as an American and a fan of western games, currently on the menu is Mario & Luigi and Muramasa, the second of which being a very Japanese game. I hope they keep making those sorts of games, I'm enjoying both.

I can't say that their design philosophy is "flawed" or anything, I don't like to fall into the category of forum-dwelling twenty-something that think they have all the answers. I think the one key difference though is that western gamers and developers on a steady diet of Japanese games. Western games have benefited from a Japanese influence. There has been and still is a huge potential market for them over here.

But why would the west make "Japanese" styled games? There's never been a market for that, not in Japan. Aside from a small pocket of "hardcore" gamers there, there doesn't seem to be interest in the "western" experience of console games (though recently Gears 2 sold decently) at all. Was there ever any question that the 360 would take third place in Japan, regardless of library, features or price point? Isn't that suggestive of a bit of xenophobia? How could that be good for them?

I'm not asking that every company start producing "brodude" games. I don't play "brodude" games personally (but that doesn't mean I think they should stop making them), I think that's an unfair generalization (though I don't think you believe all American games are "brodude") but there are a lot of creative, innovative games produced here, beyond the yearly sports rehashes and cookie-cutter FPSes. Just like there's a lot of innovative games being produced in Japan. I just wish that good western games weren't sent to die there and that Japanese developers were more open to the idea of learning from western games, like Inafune (and Capcom at large) is.

I don't want America to make Japan friendly games. I want them to continue what they're doing. I also want Japan to continue making Japanese games. No one should have to conform. Conformity kills the art form, and it's the first step towards industry-wide conformity.

 

[freddy]

Someone pass him a DS. Plenty of good games from Japan on there.

 

[Tarin02543]

Japan needs to stop making games for Japanese.

 

[Forsete]

However, he then uses Capcom's upcoming titles as an example of "kick ass" games coming from Japan.

:lol
No.

 

[ShineALight]

I don't want America to make Japan friendly games. I want them to continue what they're doing. I also want Japan to continue making Japanese games. No one should have to conform. Conformity kills the art form, and it's the first step towards industry-wide conformity.

Again, I mostly agree and don't want to see the exact same games being produced in both regions. But a look at most (any?) Media Create paints a pretty grim picture for the prospects of western games in Japan. Which I guess isn't my concern, I don't like there and I'm not making any money off of them selling, I just feel that some western games deserve better.

 

[thetrin]

Someone pass him a DS. Plenty of good games from Japan on there.

Seriously man. My DS collection is fucking huge.

 

[Ganondorfo]

Because they don't release their cool games over here... (see yakuza 3, demons souls, white knight chronicles, that ghibli rpg on ds).

 

[thetrin]

Because they don't release their cool games over here... (see yakuza 3, demons souls, white knight chronicles, that ghibli rpg on ds).

This is sadly true. A LOT of great Japanese games still don't make their way to the west, and as a result, Japan's "worth" is weighed by what actually releases. Not totally fair, is it?

 

[Paracelsus]

Someone pass him a DS. Plenty of good games from Japan on there.

Dude, that's exactly the point you are missing.

 

[Brofist]

Someone pass him a DS. Plenty of good games from Japan on there.

I think some of you are taking this a little too literally. He's not saying that there are no games. Just that the output is lacking compared to previous generations. And it's true, look at the Japanese games of the PS1 and 2 generation and compare it to this one so far. Huge difference.

 

[CiSTM]

I don't want America to make Japan friendly games. I want them to continue what they're doing. I also want Japan to continue making Japanese games. No one should have to conform. Conformity kills the art form, and it's the first step towards industry-wide conformity.

Studios were making games for japanese audience for a long time but the sales declined and they had to start making western friendly games or be out of business. Industry over there is at the crossroad and not sure yet what path to take.

 

[Haunted]

Because they don't release their cool games over here... (see yakuza 3, demons souls, white knight chronicles, that ghibli rpg on ds).

I have good news for you, my friend.

 

[Veidt]

Well, I have to say. Western devs really are stepping up their game. In the beginning of the generation, I figured Japanese dev's would bring it. But after constant delays ( EU...) and such, I don't really see them as I used to.

One of the few JP games that delivered for me so far, is MGS4 ( worldwide release, great content and top quality). And Capcom has been delivering game,after game for western audiences.

 

[Scribble]

but there are a lot of creative, innovative games produced here, beyond the yearly sports rehashes and cookie-cutter FPSes.

Like what? I'm not trying to antagonise you, I just can't think of any -- outside the exceptions like the Tim Schafer and Warren Spector stuff (And games like Portal and indie games).

Despite me being unhappy with console gaming for my own reasons, I will say that at least a a lot of these cookie cutter games are polished and well-executed. Anyway, I think the problem has only been with this generation. Both Japanese and western developers were at the top of their game during the Dreamcast/PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era. You had the quirky Japanese games, the polished, well-executed FPSes, the 'hardcore' Nintendo franchises blah blah. Basically, you had both blue skies and brown skies =)

 

[Prine]

If your into console gaming i dont think you can deny Japan is nowhere near as productive as they were last gen.

US > EU > JP

 

[freddy]

^^^ If you're into console gaming, yea.

Dude, that's exactly the point you are missing.

How can I miss a point I made myself? You think making games for the DS is the problem?
You're not explaining yourself too well here.

I think some of you are taking this a little too literally. He's not saying that there are no games. Just that the output is lacking compared to previous generations. And it's true, look at the Japanese games of the PS1 and 2 generation and compare it to this one so far. Huge difference.

That's easy to say. Have we got some proof? I'm not saying it not true but it would be nice to see.

 

[ShineALight]

I have good news for you, my friend.

So is Yakuza 3 according to this article: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3176109

It's also likely The Another World gets a western release, but I don't think there's been confirmation.

 

[teruterubozu]

It's because video games turned into Hollywood movies and Americans are simply better at that.