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Kentucky Senate President: Governor's race could be decided by state legislature aka not the voters

Trojita

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https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/06/beshear-vs-bevin-legislature-could-decide-race-senate-president-says/4174103002/

Kentucky Senate President Robert Stivers threw another wrench into the state's razor-thin gubernatorial outcome late Tuesday night, saying that the legislature could decide the race.

Stivers' comments came shortly after Gov. Matt Bevin refused to concede to Attorney General Andy Beshear, who led by roughly 5,100 votes when all the precincts were counted.

“There’s less than one-half of 1%, as I understand, separating the governor and the attorney general,” Stivers said. “We will follow the letter of the law and what various processes determine.”

Stivers, R-Manchester, said based on his staff’s research, the decision could come before the Republican-controlled state legislature.
Under state law, Bevin has 30 days to formally contest the outcome once it is certified by the State Board of Elections. Candidates typically ask for a re-canvass of voting machines and a recount first.

Under state law, Bevin has 30 days to formally contest the outcome once it is certified by the State Board of Elections. Candidates typically ask for a re-canvass of voting machines and a recount first.

The last contested governor's race was the 1899 election of Democrat William Goebel.
Such an election contest is covered under Section 90 of the state constitution, which addresses a "contest of election for Governor or Lieutenant Governor."
ection 90 states: "Contested elections for Governor and Lieutenant Governor shall be determined by both Houses of the General Assembly, according to such regulations as may be established by law."
Sam Marcosson, a constitutional law professor at the University of Louisville Brandeis School of Law, told The Courier Journal that this language of the state Constitution suggests there must be procedure established by law for a review of a contested election to take place by the House and Senate.
“They can’t just make them up,” Marcosson said.
Further, he said, such a review would be extremely risky for lawmakers to undertake without clear reasons for a contested election.
“If the House and Senate were just to proceed on vague allegations without proof, that raises serious questions about disenfranchisement of the voters who voted for Attorney General Beshear,” Marcosson said. “It’s an extraordinary proposition to suggest that the General Assembly would take vague allegations of unspecified irregularities and call into question a gubernatorial election.”
For this process they'd have to detail why this is contested, not just because it's "close". A procedure would then have to be setup by law for review of the contested race. You can't just do this because lost and want to take control anyway. An action like that would happen in a less civilized country. To do this in the way that is being alluded is extremely against the ideals of American democracy and populace representation through the act of voting.

Stivers said he thought Bevin’s speech declining to concede to Beshear was “appropriate.” He said believes most of the votes that went to Libertarian John Hicks, who received about 2% of the total vote, would have gone to Bevin and made him the clear winner.
 
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Trojita

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This is why ranked choice voting mixed with some exclusions (i.e. someone who votes for a Republican would not have their votes added to the opposing party) could help solve these conflicts.
If the electorate wishes for it to be law. Ranked choice can be a double edged sword for both parties.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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If the electorate wishes for it to be law. Ranked choice can be a double edged sword for both parties.
Agreed, it makes elections susceptible to a bum-rush of candidates and to those with deep pockets (for ads). However as we saw with Trump a candidate can certainly gain notoriety and beat well-known candidates with a strong enough campaign.

I think there's also value for your vote to only matter for the person you picked and if you lose, then you lose. It's definitely not clear-cut but it would prevent situations like this where the outcome will likely depend on a separate governing body. The distribution of the congress (in this case, Republican majority) will make the opposing party immediately cry foul.
 
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prag16

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Ha. That last quote in the OP is kind of silly. How does that have any bearing on anything? The rules are the rules.

If they don't like it, they should be pushing to implement instant runoff voting. It's a concept I could get behind.
 

SpartanN92

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Whatever keeps Bevin in I’m happy with at this point 😂
He has been a terrific governor, the problem is he attempted to fix the pension crisis which was created by democrats. Teachers (who overwhelmingly vote Democrat) would be affected and because they think they are a protected class immune from the consequences of their vote demand that the tax payers subsidize their losses on their pensions.

Fuck them. They voted for Democrats for decades and they got what they got. However sadly for Bevin it appears that Teachers garner far more sympathy than they deserve.

For reference: KY has had 3 Republican governors in 40 years, the House was Democrat from the civil war until the early 2000’s and the Senate only just turned Republican in 2016!!!
The pension crisis falls squarely on the dems.
 
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autoduelist

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We need to reform vote security entirely.

As for close elections between polar opposite candidates, there is no easy solution. Obviously, in an area that leans heavily in one direction, your vote becomes nearly meaningless because the winner is a foregone conclusion.

But in a 'battleground' vote, or a situation like this, in which it's essentially 50/50 [not even getting into any sort of voting discrepencies], what we are ultimately talking about is deciding on who rules over an area based on a tiny amount of votes. That's 50% of the population [assuming voters represent the full population, which isn't a given to begin with] enacting their will on another group of 50% who strongly disagree.

I'm not sure that's the best setup to begin with. Though it's a difficult problem to solve. One first step, imho, is limiting the role of gov't across the board. We wouldn't have quite such an issue if gov't hadn't seeped into every aspect of our daily lives, and gov't hasn't slowly grown in power to the point they can arguably infringe upon rights, tax with abandon, etc. We should want a system where, even if we get stuck with a representative that is diametrically opposed to us in every way, or corrupt, or just plain stupid, the amount of damage they can do is minimal because their power is so limited.

But instead we're stuck debating a couple thousand votes in a system where we can't even be sure the votes are counted correctly, and every election feels like the sky is falling.
 
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infinitys_7th

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https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/2019/11/06/beshear-vs-bevin-legislature-could-decide-race-senate-president-says/4174103002/










For this process they'd have to detail why this is contested, not just because it's "close". A procedure would then have to be setup by law for review of the contested race. You can't just do this because lost and want to take control anyway. An action like that would happen in a less civilized country. To do this in the way that is being alluded is extremely against the ideals of American democracy and populace representation through the act of voting.


Of course that is how it works, if they can make the argument.

And the voters are still deciding, through the representatives they elected, because of the contested circumstances.
 

Trojita

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Of course that is how it works, if they can make the argument.

And the voters are still deciding, through the representatives they elected, because of the contested circumstances.
Maybe in the Soviet Bloc
 

Trojita

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Whatever keeps Bevin in I’m happy with at this point 😂
He has been a terrific governor, the problem is he attempted to fix the pension crisis which was created by democrats. Teachers (who overwhelmingly vote Democrat) would be affected and because they think they are a protected class immune from the consequences of their vote demand that the tax payers subsidize their losses on their pensions.

Fuck them. They voted for Democrats for decades and they got what they got. However sadly for Bevin it appears that Teachers garner far more sympathy than they deserve.

For reference: KY has had 3 Republican governors in 40 years, the House was Democrat from the civil war until the early 2000’s and the Senate only just turned Republican in 2016!!!
The pension crisis falls squarely on the dems.
Mind detailing out the problem with the pensions? Seems the average teacher is paid 53 or 63k a year. They get a pension after 27 years of working. They put in their time. They are also not eligible for social security when being part of the pension. Did they just not budget correctly? Did they lose investments. Those aren't insane numbers or requirements.

That number may be a little inflated since they get off a portion of the year, but then you have to add in all the extra time out of class they have to commit to. Good teachers should be paid well and 53k isn't that ridiculous.
 
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appaws

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Louisville cheats. The question is whether it can be proven that those cheats add up to the margin of victory.

They definitely do, and then some, but you have to manage to prove it while the Louisville city machine works overtime to keep it all hidden.
 

Super Mario

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I wonder how many more hundreds of years we are going to physically count paper votes, worrying about fraud, and miscounts. Seems fairly antiquated for electing the highest offices in the land.
 
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Louisville cheats. The question is whether it can be proven that those cheats add up to the margin of victory.

They definitely do, and then some, but you have to manage to prove it while the Louisville city machine works overtime to keep it all hidden.
Do you have any actual proof that they "cheat"?
 

appaws

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Do you have any actual proof that they "cheat"?
Every big city in America cheats. Look at how hard the Dems resist voter ID regulations. There is your proof.

Democracy is a scam anyway, either side would look to pad the ballot box in any locality where they have strong uncontested control, like big city Dem machines. I assume the GOP pulls some shenanigans as well, in really red areas, but the numbers are not there to make as much of an impact by doing that.

But the globalist traitors have been working on Kentucky, bringing in Invaders to break up the redness (and the whiteness). Dumping Somalis in Louisville, illegal Mexicans in Shelby County, even places like Bowling Green and Paducah have to deal with the vibrance and diversity, and crime and drugs and gangs. "Our strength."