What was your issue with the poll?
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Kickstarter: Bard's Tale IV (inXile, 1.25 mil, PC, Mac, Linux)
- Thread starter hemtae
- Start date
I don't know what his issue with the poll was.
My issue was that it was abundantly clear from the option descriptions that the developers had already made their choice and were just looking for validation (since it was completely different from the game Torment is ostensibly a spiritual sequel to). And when the choice which wasn't favored was looking to win despite that, they edited the options.
The purpose of the poll was mostly to start a discussion on the pros and cons of each system so they could get extra arguments for RTWP and to address the concerns of its advocates (or turn-based if they changed their minds). That said, I don't remember what they changed for options; could you (or someone) remind me?
Brother None
Member
I too am curious! I was part of setting up that poll and running it and I don't remember making any edits meant to fool or dissuade anyone. And as far as I remember the two options were pretty close throughout, neither one ever took a decisive lead. The results were never going to please everyone and in hindsight if anything we're sorry for that, but accusing us of wrong-doing on this is kind of out there.
Chris Avellone stretch goal confirmed.
$1.9 million
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/the-bards-tale-iv/posts/1278468
Also Colin McComb at $1.7 million
Would love to have Avellone on board, hopefully they can reach this.
That's basically it, and it's something most people didn't even expect it to be up to a vote and many backers weren't even aware of before and after backing (only ~20% voted at all).
It was the opposite. They wanted turn-based all along, and later clarified that they were already working on a turn-based system.
Right after the poll was created TB was taking a beating, and both options still had very basic descriptions (vote here if you prefer real-time with pause combat, turn-based, indifferent).
InXile didn't like that outcome, so they expanded the options(I'm sure there are pics somewhere). They told backers they wanted turn-based, that they were already working on it, that it'd be easier to adapt, had greater depth (???), etc.
In the end the result was a tie (statistical tie, as they said themselves), so instead of using the system from the original Torment, they went with TB because that's what they wanted and actively tried to push as much as possible during the vote.
It was a fraud because they manipulated the options to favour their own choice and violated the spirit of a democratic vote. Sure, game development is not a democracy by any means, but if they promised a democratic decision by the backers, manipulating the vote is immoral at best.
Some believe (as I do) that they rigged the vote count itself, but there's no way to prove it.
Found some relevant pictures.
This is how the poll looked when it was created (thanks, Durante, it was in your thread):
Later changed into this:
Also extremely relevant:
The poll was a farce all along. It was never our choice, they were just looking to validate theirs however they could.
This is how the poll looked when it was created (thanks, Durante, it was in your thread):
Later changed into this:
Also extremely relevant:
The poll was a farce all along. It was never our choice, they were just looking to validate theirs however they could.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Please. The poll wasn't a farce. He explains it right there. It was a count of votes.
What I meant was that they wanted arguments for RTWP so they could improve the turn-based system to include some of the positive aspects RTWP. Again, the poll results were never intended to determine their decision, and they never implied so (I remember Brian Fargo saying in a tweet that disregarding what 50% of people voted for is better than disregarding what 90% of people voted for).
As for only 20% voting, it was mentioned in several backer updates and on many news sites; I don't know how inXile is at fault for people not knowing.
This KS i think is definitely pushing the limits of what a dungeon blobber can achieve really. Between all the free stuff, low cost of entry, awesome looking video, and big names attached, it still is hovering around 1.3. Not sure what more they could have done besides launch a lot earlier in the year before the big influx of KS campaigns.
Haven't been closely following this, but I am honestly surprised that it is still only around 1.3 million. Then again thinking about it it might make sense as dungeon blobbers are not high on my list and it looks like I am not alone. I am really only backing this because the price is low enough for me to role the dice.
Yeah like i said, given everything inExile has thrown at this, seems to be just the name and the genre doesnt have as much pull.
Its really difficult to say what would have gotten more backers. I mean, you could raise the price to 30$, and get rid of the early bird tiers, but then there is no guarantee we would be at 30k backers.
Brother None
Member
It's funny, if you'd told me a year ago a turn-based blobber could raise even this much I'd have thought you mad. It's satisfying to see eve this genre can thrive on Kickstarter.
TB was ahead in your first screenshot? As I said, it was roughly equal throughout, sometimes one took a bit of a lead, sometimes the other. But I don't recall it ever being far apart, including before we expanded the text which, by the way, is mostly just including the text from the update in case people missed that.
Really? Isn't it a more realistic theory to say that, I dunno, Kickstarter RPG fans just like turn-based?
I hope you guys arent too bummed this hasnt reached torment heights. Hopefully the studio is doing well enough that you all werent relying on this project to keep things afloat etc. I mean Torment should do well for you all and W2 goty should be nice.
I don't know where you got the impression they were interested in arguments for RTWP. The fact they only listed two "advantages" for it and included several subjective ones to TB ("greater depth"? give me a break).
They created the
The first picture is almost 2000 votes in.
Kickstarter RPG is not a genre, and you guys manipulated the poll, so we'll never know.
Still, I'll never believe a neutral, transparent poll about a "spiritual sequel" to a game with real time combat with pause would've had this outcome. And even if it did, a tie should've favoured the original game's system.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
It was both the best and the worst, actually. Best written, worst designed.
Of course. Not the system they were more comfortable with or that fit the new game system they were using better.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
As much as the game interests me and I believe the fuck in InXile, I'm not going to up to $25 unless we hit MCA.
Exactly. It was bullshit.
Ok, to give it more relevance: I'm so pissed off remembering the poll debacle that I don't even know why I'm giving another inXile KS my money.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Brother None
Member
It funded with an ambitious goal, and will still have its final curve up to go. Hard to complain about that!
Must've been exasperating to have something like Shenmue III show up when it did though.
I imagine yes and no. Yes cause it took a lot of the news away from it as the current big KS, no because a lot of the people funding Shenmue right now are actually completely new to kickstarter,
ElectricThunder
Member
If the folks running the Shenmue III KS were more...savvy...to how this works, I'd like to think they'd give BT IV a shoutout as they get towards the last week considering all those new backers. It definitely makes a difference when all the projects doing well tell their respective audiences about their peers.
If...
If...
True, in addition to the fact the audience overlap is probably really small, something like Yooka Laylee and Bloodstained at least both appeal to late 90s nostalgia. Still, it definitely grabbed attention because of that, even though the handling of the Kickstarter since makes me suspect they failed to keep the momentum going like it could have.
I didn't find it particularly well written, it actually has the least dialog of any area in the game. 90% of it is slogging through mutant rabbits.
Eh, it wasn't that good in either. Though the game's horrendous dialogue system takes a lot of the blame as well.
Anyway, The game really only picked up at the later stages. AG and Highpool were mostly serviceable, the M.A.D Monks is where I started getting into it.
hemtae
Member
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Did he say if the added $1.2m is going to count towards Stretch Goals?
I would imagine no, that wouldnt make a lot of sense. base game fund would be 2.5 mil
hemtae
Member
New update: New Add-ons!
Effective immediately, the following add-ons are available to all backers at $20 or above:
- $40 - Collector's Album Box + shipping ($8 US / $10 Canada / $15 EU / $17 Rest of World)
- $12 - Digital Strategy Guide
- $15 - Beta Test Access
- $30 - Extra Digital Copy of Torment: Tides of Numenera (Windows, Mac and Linux)
spindoctor
Member
Will we be able to add these addons after the campaign is over? As in, on their own website (whatever equivalent of Ranger Center they set up for this game)? Or does it have to be done before the KS ends?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I highly doubt even half of the people getting a Forgiveness Letter are pirates.
autoduelist
Member
I think a lot of people pirated a bit more freely way back when. And a lot of fans of Bard's Tale are older... so, I could see people buying the forgiveness package.
EDIT - holy crap. 1.9m = equipment visible on characters in inventory. i'm not generally a big fan of 'dressup' games [best armor, no matter how ugly!], but I do like the immersion. hope we get there.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I am not one to underestimate digital piracy.
At the same time, I doubt many actual pirates would do this, as they would see the very notion of a Forgiveness Letter as a "betrayal". Seriously, I've seen some ridiculous posts on FB trying to either say Brian Fargo is pro-piracy or that InXile has "betrayed gamers".
Plus, now it's an add-on.
They know the score.
It's smart.
hemtae
Member
Recap update.
Pretty good looking pic of an ogre in the update but cant find any way to actually hotlink the image cause i think they lock them behind KS without rehosting them.
Pretty good looking pic of an ogre in the update but cant find any way to actually hotlink the image cause i think they lock them behind KS without rehosting them.
RPG_Fanatic
Member
Finally added Torment: Tides of Numenera as an add-on. Time to back this project. I enjoyed Wasteland 2 (Didn't back), so hpefully this game turns out good as well.
You could never pledge and get Torment free...im pretty sure it was only Wasteland 2 or the Witcher games you would get.
No that wasnt how it worked. If you pledged for BT and/or pledged on W2 or Torment, you would get a free bonus, like a torment soundtrack or another thing.
The free games given are: Wasteland 2, or the Witcher 1-2 games if you pledged early. You get Bards Tale 1-3 if you pledged 20 or up. And if you pledged 33$ before June 26th they are giving Underworld games for free.
No Torment for free.
