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Killer Instinct on W10 framerate tied to monitor refresh - with 144hz it's unplayable

SOR5

Member
So the developer already stated there will be a fix shortly.

But of course, this deserved its own thread because god forbid this game's launch go entirely smoothly.

To all the people having trouble with refresh rates, my condolences, it is a bit crap and should've been fixed up but you're only temporarily missing out on an otherwise very solid port, not an "unacceptable" one.
 
Because windows store applications have the .exe for the game hidden and thus rendering msi afterburner and nvidia inspector useless. The only real workaround is setting your monitor to 60hz which makes it 60hz for everything, thus needing to disable the option one you're done gaming KI.

Shit solution for shit problem. A Workaround is something you have to do once until a patch comes out, not a hassle that you have to go through to make your system fit an app and not the other way around.

So basically all you have to do is create a custom 60hz resolution? Most 144hz panel have the native resolution in three formats, 60/110/144.

I've been reading of people capping the framerate using MSI AB on "global" profile, since you can't access the exe.

Ok, it's a shitty solution, but its easy to do, at least until Iron Galaxy fixes it.

Then again it's Irong Galaxy, just dont forget how poor was the port of MKX initally. Plus left abandoned.
 

Mifec

Member
Why do people think that this is UWP problem?

Other games have this issue?

The problem is that UWP prevents the usual fixes, there are fixes but they make you change the refresh rate of your whole monitor instead of just for KI.
 

Caayn

Member
Is not only that they QA was ridiculous, but also that they disallowing us from an acceptable workaround thanks to their platform.
I don't agree about the QA part. As a 21:9 owner, I regularly come across games that break down when displayed with that ratio. Why? Because the market share with such monitors is about as large as the market share with 144hz monitors. Hint: It's not that big, that's why it's easily glossed over.

I also don't see how manually setting the refresh rate until a fix arrives isn't an acceptable solution.
 

wazoo

Member
Why do people think that this is UWP problem?

Other games have this issue?

The fact that UWP games can not be fixed easily by the community is the problem.

For sure, KI is suffering from a "WTF UWP" syndrome that would have been lower if the game had the same problem on steam.
 

JaggedSac

Member
I'm surprised it took this long for a thread to be created. Was expecting it the moment someone mentioned it in the OT. Sounds like there were download and install issues too. MS has some work to do, lol. Also, incidentally, the build keynote is today at 11:30 EST if anyone is curious to see if they announce any UWP related items. They are apparently announcing Ubuntu on Windows, so should be interesting, lol.
 

shandy706

Member
Why do people think that this is UWP problem?

Other games have this issue?

It's not.

You are correct.

Amazing game and a chance to jump in with a torch for some. Many games need a patch once they hit the mainstream. Even the biggest and the best. Witcher 3 comes to mind. People like to flip out even less than 24 hours after release.

At least here we can do a temporary fix in like 30 seconds.
 

Somnia

Member
One thing I find hilarious is the OP is all "We HAVE to complain to get this fixed, it's the only way MS will fix issues!"

Yet devs have been posting in the KI thread all day since launch and stated within an hour tops this will be fixed and is being looked at/worked on right now.

It's an issue, it's getting fixed, done.
 
So basically all you have to do is create a custom 60hz resolution? Most 144hz panel have the native resolution in three formats, 60/110/144.

I've been reading of people capping the framerate using MSI AB on "global" profile, since you can't access the exe.

Ok, it's a shitty solution, but its easy to do, at least until Iron Galaxy fixes it.

Then again it's Irong Galaxy, just dont forget how poor was the port of MKX initally. Plus left abandoned.

MkX was high voltage, not iron galaxy

Iron galaxy did Batman which was a much worse situation
 

SenkiDala

Member
Well, between that and the fact that I still CANNOT access to any characters of the game except Riptor, since the games doesn't detect that I bought the season 1 & 2... It sucks.

They should have playtests sessions before releasing their games on stores...
 
based on how quick gears updates have been rolling out it doesn't seem to take long

It seems to take three to four days longer for Rise of the Tomb Raider to get the same patch as the Steam version, for what it's worth. And I'm also not aware of a mod fixing an issue where something is tied to framerate that shouldn't be. The solution remains the same. Change your framerate if you can.

I don't like UWAs either but I don't see the value in blaming every technical issue with a game released that way on the UWA system itself.
 

Kumubou

Member
Uh... you have no idea how fighting games are designed, then. That would apply to anyone in this thread posting about how the game -- and nearly every fighting game in existence -- is broken because it runs at a fixed update interval. There's two (related) issues with regards to this:

The game needs to be completely deterministic. The animations and their associated data (like collision detection) are all tuned to move at exact speeds with precision down to a specific update. So the exact same inputs with the exact same (in-game) timing should result in the exact same thing happening in every instance. So now if your computer has a small hiccup and the game ends up running at 55fps for a second, with games with variable update times it just calculates the changes to the game state over 1/55th of a second. It's not really an issue then, especially as games are designed to have interactions that can deal with that kind of variance. However, varying that sort of update timing in a fighting game now results in interactions that would not exist before as moves are hitting slightly slower or slightly more quickly than they should. You can actually test this directly in SF4 -- go into the graphics options and set the frame timing to Smooth instead of Fixed. It causes a lot of frame-specific combos and blockstrings to not always work, and some combos that never work under normal circumstances now work -- sometimes.

(This would also break other games that are designed to be precise to specific updates, such as the Trials games.)

These synchronization issues are magnified when playing online, since both player need to stay synchronized to each other, since there is no game server that is dictating the game's state. While KI does allow the game to desynch a little bit (in order to allow for lower input latency), this also makes the deterministic nature of the engine even more important, as the game does use some kind of prediction model (based on the player's current input and the character's state) in order to fill in gaps with the missing data from the other player, and the game also has to be able to jump to a state that is consistent with both players (this is what happens when the game rolls back to an earlier state).

You could decouple the animation from the game updates (and this is practically what most client-server games do), but this is more problematic with fighting games than it is in most genres due to how everything is tied to the character's animation. You would end up with a lot of instances where the collision data doesn't match up exactly with the character's movement. That and it would involve more engineering work, especially if you are trying to support variable update times and keep the engine completely deterministic (keeping floating-point math predictable, especially across multiple machines is more difficult than you would expect). I do know some games elect to do this and then have the game run at a much faster update cycle than the graphics renderer does. That may be hard to justify when the game is already engineering to run at a specific update rate that matches the rendering rate (and IIRC KI already does this? I remember reading that the game's logic runs at 90hz). That and again, it could be weird to players when you run into game interactions that look identical but produce different results, even if the game is consistent (due to the differing update cycles between drawn frames).
 
Well, between that and the fact that I still CANNOT access to any characters of the game except Riptor, since the games doesn't detect that I bought the season 1 & 2... It sucks.

They should have playtests sessions before releasing their games on stores...

For cross-buy? Have you login on your Xbox One to enable that?
 

LewieP

Member
So the developer already stated there will be a fix shortly.

But of course, this deserved its own thread because god forbid this game's launch go entirely smoothly.

To all the people having trouble with refresh rates, my condolences, it is a bit crap and should've been fixed up but you're only temporarily missing out on an otherwise very solid port, not an "unacceptable" one.

Not all developers will fix all problems like this, and thanks to UWP preventing unrestricted modding, they might never be fixed in cases where the developer is unable/unwilling to fix such issues.

Of course this is a newsworthy discussion.
 

JaggedSac

Member
Not all developers will fix all problems like this, and thanks to UWP preventing unrestricted modding, they might never be fixed in cases where the developer is unable/unwilling to fix such issues.

Of course this is a newsworthy discussion.

They would be more than happy to offer a refund to people who want it. Bitching about these things of course greases the wheels in most cases, but affecting them monetarily is the best.
 

KingBroly

Banned
So basically all you have to do is create a custom 60hz resolution? Most 144hz panel have the native resolution in three formats, 60/110/144.

I've been reading of people capping the framerate using MSI AB on "global" profile, since you can't access the exe.

Ok, it's a shitty solution, but its easy to do, at least until Iron Galaxy fixes it.

Then again it's Irong Galaxy, just dont forget how poor was the port of MKX initally. Plus left abandoned.

They didn't port MK X to PC, that was High Voltage.

Iron Galaxy basically had Arkham Knight dropped on their doorstep last minute because Rocksteady and WB thought optimizing for PC then porting to consoles was a bad idea.
 

SenkiDala

Member
For cross-buy? Have you login on your Xbox One to enable that?

Nope, I sold my Xbox One (and bought the season 2 of KI right before selling it, in the purpose of playing it on PC since they said it'll be cross buy), so I can't do that... I agree to lose my progress in the game, but not the seasons that I bought... Someone here on gaf said that it's just a "sync problem" and they'll solve it, but I'm wondering when.
 

nded

Member
Kind of annoying, but at least the workaround is simple and the devs are fixing it. The sheer peevishness of that dude in the video is hilarious though.
 

Somnia

Member
Nope, I sold my Xbox One (and bought the season 2 of KI right before selling it, in the purpose of playing it on PC since they said it'll be cross buy), so I can't do that... I agree to lose my progress in the game, but not the seasons that I bought... Someone here on gaf said that it's just a "sync problem" and they'll solve it, but I'm wondering when.

Devs have stated from launch yesterday as soon as this popped up they are looking into it and will get it fixed ASAP.
 

Shari

Member
So basically all you have to do is create a custom 60hz resolution? Most 144hz panel have the native resolution in three formats, 60/110/144.

I've been reading of people capping the framerate using MSI AB on "global" profile, since you can't access the exe.

Ok, it's a shitty solution, but its easy to do, at least until Iron Galaxy fixes it.

Then again it's Irong Galaxy, just dont forget how poor was the port of MKX initally. Plus left abandoned.


Yep, Iron Galaxy. But dont think about MKX, think about Arkham Knight :shivers:

I also don't see how manually setting the refresh rate until a fix arrives isn't an acceptable solution.

You dont see how having to execute a manual action everytime we open and close the game for our system to adapto to said game isnt an acceptable solution.

God, you are an ideal customer.
 
So the developer already stated there will be a fix shortly.

But of course, this deserved its own thread because god forbid this game's launch go entirely smoothly.

To all the people having trouble with refresh rates, my condolences, it is a bit crap and should've been fixed up but you're only temporarily missing out on an otherwise very solid port, not an "unacceptable" one.

Thought their bodies would be burning at the stake by now. Close call.
 

Teletraan1

Member
lol

If you say so brave soldier. Enjoy never playing KI at any refresh rate, you should go into the OT from time to time and see the fun and enjoyment people are having with the game just to make yourself more determined!

I despise this kind of response. A bunch of similar ones were made at me when I refused to play GTA5 on PS3 @ 20fps and held out for a PC version. Yeah my enjoyment was ruined for sure by sticking to my principles. I hope this gets resolved but what a seriously condescending and fucking gross post. Like there is only one game that comes out in a year and their only enjoyment in life could possibly come from playing this one game on Microsoft's terrible storefront. Get real. Your childish taunt was directed at a PC gamer on a platform with an overabundance of game releases in a year and backlogs that can go back decades. I am sure they can hold out.
 

Somnia

Member
Yep, Iron Galaxy. But dont think about MKX, think about Arkham Knight :shivers:



You dont see how having to execute a manual action everytime we open and close the game for our system to adapto to said game isnt an acceptable solution.

God, you are an ideal customer.

Yes it sucks and it's broken, but at least the devs are being active and open about the issues and have stated what they are looking into and working on.

It's not like they are plugging their ears to the problems and ignoring it.
 

wazoo

Member
That and it would involve more engineering work, especially if you are trying to support variable update times and keep the engine completely deterministic (keeping floating-point math predictable, especially across multiple machines is more difficult than you would expect).

Agreed.

That is the main problem. Variable framerate for fighting games is more complex to handle. Everything you said make sense for a fighting game of the 90s where frames were drawn and had a real meaning. For 3D games, there should be no problem to decorrelate game engine and graphics engine. Still, knowing it took years to uncorrelate simpler games on the console side from the TV refresh rate, it is not surprising that for fighting games, we are still using shortcomings that are easier to implement.
 
I despise this kind of response. A bunch of similar ones were made at me when I refused to play GTA5 on PS3 @ 20fps and held out for a PC version. Yeah my enjoyment was ruined for sure by sticking to my principles. I hope this gets resolved but what a seriously condescending and fucking gross post. Like there is only one game that comes out in a year and their only enjoyment in life could possibly come from playing this one game on Microsoft's terrible storefront. Get real. Your childish taunt was directed at a PC gamer on a platform with an overabundance of game releases in a year and backlogs that can go back decades. I am sure they can hold out.

You see a problem with my post and the content of it but not the person's post I was responding too?

That's your prerogative and more power to you, I suppose.
 
I look forward to all the posts congratulating when they patch this.

Holy shit people falling all over themselves to post drive bys.
 

mcrommert

Banned
Seriously why do people keep blaming uwp...the framerate issue has nothing to do with the platform they have everything to do with how the game is designed...all they need to do is put in a framerate limiter for displays over 60hz...problem solved

EDIT: I will never not be surprised by how much vitriol people on this forum have for anything that comes from Microsoft...completely unattached from any reason or critical thinking
 

Vazra

irresponsible vagina leak
Friend list is also a damn mess. Game works fine other than not being able to add new friends and play.
 

shandy706

Member
If only people could mod these files and create fixes...

For Nvidia Card Users who are willing to wait more than 24 hours before losing it.

Right click desktop

Nvidia Control Panel

Change Resolution

Refresh Rate: Set to 60Hz

"Apply"


Boy, that was tough.

For those that can do more than create and name a folder on PC, you can also make a custom resolution and test them @60hz if you want.
 

derFeef

Member
For Nvidia Card Users who are willing to wait more than 24 hours before losing it.

Right click desktop

Nvidia Control Panel

Change Resolution

Refresh Rate: Set to 60Hz

"Apply"


Boy, that was tough.

For those that can do more than create and name a folder on PC, you can also make a custom resolution and test them @60hz if you want.

Unacceptable, I got told.
 

etta

my hard graphic balls
One thing I find hilarious is the OP is all "We HAVE to complain to get this fixed, it's the only way MS will fix issues!"

Yet devs have been posting in the KI thread all day since launch and stated within an hour tops this will be fixed and is being looked at/worked on right now.

It's an issue, it's getting fixed, done.
People got axes to grind.
 

vg260

Member
So, it's safe to assume any patches have to go through some sort of console-like certification process unlike Steam, where devs can just easily post fixes whenever they want?
 

Shari

Member
For Nvidia Card Users who are willing to wait more than 24 hours before losing it.

Right click desktop

Nvidia Control Panel

Change Resolution

Refresh Rate: Set to 60Hz

"Apply"


Boy, that was tough.

For those that can do more than create and name a folder on PC, you can also make a custom resolution and test them @60hz if you want.

Then you have to do the same process to set again 100/120/144hz when you exit the game. That, everytime you want to play the game.

Totally acceptable, lol.

Yes it sucks and it's broken, but at least the devs are being active and open about the issues and have stated what they are looking into and working on.

It's not like they are plugging their ears to the problems and ignoring it.

Their communication policy is nice and all. Fixing something that is broken is the least, you already failed at your job, amends are not to be cheered upon.
 

GHG

Member
I meant complaining they are not on other DD service.

The games on those DD services are still Win32 apps so it's not that big an issue. If a game is on the Win10 store then it will be UWA. Due to the current limitations that UWA's currently have, that is the issue.
 
Seriously why do people keep blaming uwp...the framerate issue has nothing to do with the platform they have everything to do with how the game is designed...all they need to do is put in a framerate limiter for displays over 60hz...problem solved

EDIT: I will never not be surprised by how much vitriol people on this forum have for anything that comes from Microsoft...completely unattached from any reason or critical thinking

UWP makes it so that it can't be fixed by the usual software (RTSS and the like).
 

dmix90

Member
How? Im interested. It "works" by setting up global configuration? Because then it's still useless.



Exactly what I was expecting, thank you for the confirmation. So much misinformation on this thread.
You can set framerate limiter for specific profile.......and there is a profile for Killer Instinct already.


Boooom, problem solved! At least on Nvidia hardware.
 

shandy706

Member
Then you have to do the same process to set again 100/120/144hz when you exit the game. That, everytime you want to play the game.

Totally acceptable, lol.

For a topic that should be full of people with PC knowledge, this one doesn't seem to have many of them.


Create custom resolutions to switch between then. You can apply desktop resolutions with refresh rates that will stay. Then it takes like 5 seconds (or much less) to switch between them, lol. I have a 120hz TV and I have custom setups that range from 30hz 4k to 120hz 720p. I made them just in case I need them, or want to play with different games.

Come on people. I'm sure they'll patch it. This is like crying over spilt milk when a roll of paper-towels is next to you.
 
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