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Killzone 2 Demo up on EU PSN Store now
- Thread starter flipping_heck
- Start date
AgentOtaku
Member
The Faceless Master said:
Nope
Nope, which is disappointing to say the least. I like the controls with minimal tweaking, but I would be so much happier to swap melee and zoom. I buttstock a fool in the face rarely, but I'm zooming in and out constantly. Guess which one is on R3 and which is L1?The Faceless Master said:
radioheadrule83
Banned
A lot of those moments that have awed us in the GIFs -- post processing effects up the wazoo, distributed lighting shining, bouncing, reflecting off everything, blood on the screen, smoke filled explosions, hellghast falling appropriately as you fill them with bullets... a lot of those moments are hard to notice sometimes cos there's that much going on and you're that sucked in. I mean that as a compliment. Its a good thing. Its only when I watch videos I'm able to see that properly I think. I'm not the best FPS player in the world, what are the best control settings? Definitely gonna support this one and pick it up
Also can someone give me a rundown of what relevant things happen in the first game? I've never played it and I doubt I will...
Also can someone give me a rundown of what relevant things happen in the first game? I've never played it and I doubt I will...
Dr. Acid Avatar
Member
After 3 play throughs I found myself always having a finger hovering over the crouch button. Mostly to take cover. The controls work wonderfully now that I've grasped them and I think the control mechanics will translate over to MP when I need to start crouching more.
AranhaHunter said:
Doubtful. They did no crouch toggle for a reason. I'm more pissed you can't bind any button which takes zero effort to implement.
The crouch toggle will only be in multiplayer. This wasnt an oversight in single player but rather a function of how the team wants users to play the game. Its a quick action game, and the crouch is more of a function to duck behind objects for pop and shoot gameplay. The toggled crouch kind of defeated that purpose and started leading to gameplay that was counter to the heart of the game.
Liabe Brave
Member
The number of FPS I've ever played is in the single digits. My first playthrough of the KZ2 demo I did in a language I don't understand, with absolutely all text/HUD/help turned off. It took me less than a minute to figure out the controls, and I got through to the end without dying, while killing the majority of the enemies.blazinglazers said:
So I believe you might have the effect backwards. I think that experienced FPS players are bringing rigid expectations to the table, rather than the game being inherently "wrong" or "uncomfortable" or "bad".
That is compromising on their design. You can argue it needs to be made, but it would alter their intentions.blazinglazers said:
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
My only complaint is I hate holding L2 so long in cover.
DIrtyWeasel
Member
The alternate 2 control scheme swaps L1 and R3. This is what I used when I played the demo.calder said:Nope, which is disappointing to say the least. I like the controls with minimal tweaking, but I would be so much happier to swap melee and zoom. I buttstock a fool in the face rarely, but I'm zooming in and out constantly. Guess which one is on R3 and which is L1?
AgentOtaku
Member
Tom Penny said:
Please tell this isn't quote pulled from them
...this is fucking BULLSHIT!
As much as we have enough Killzone 2 threads on the forum, I'd be interested to see a before/after thing for people.
"Before the Killzone 2 demo I was 1) Buying it 2) undecided 3) Not going to buy it."
"After trying the demo I 1) Am more excited (buying) 2) Less Excited (Buying), 3) Undecided 4) Getting it used 5) Not buying.
"Before the Killzone 2 demo I was 1) Buying it 2) undecided 3) Not going to buy it."
"After trying the demo I 1) Am more excited (buying) 2) Less Excited (Buying), 3) Undecided 4) Getting it used 5) Not buying.
Zen said:
Before the demo I had pre-order from Amazon. I did this on the impressions from people that had played the game here. I found that the way GG designed the controls are not to my liking. Also, the level they picked for the demo was just boring. I can only hope the rest of the game is better than that. I canceled my pre-order.
before : pretty much confirmed purchase (I've been denying myself fpses for a while, this was a god point to jump back in)
after: definitely buying. I'm traditionally a PC gamer who struggles with console controls, but for some reason, even when really drunk I found the controls natural. I wonder if they had purposefully tried to make the controls easier for someone with a PC FPS background..
after: definitely buying. I'm traditionally a PC gamer who struggles with console controls, but for some reason, even when really drunk I found the controls natural. I wonder if they had purposefully tried to make the controls easier for someone with a PC FPS background..
Danne-Danger
Member
You know, I was thinking to myself that a possible reason for not including a toggle would be to get the player to move from cover to cover, though I never thought I'd see it as their official explanation.Tom Penny said:
Still, doesn't hurt me since that's the way I play anyway.
It'll surely piss a lot of people off to have it there for MP and not for SP though.
*Also, yeah, Day 1 after having played the demo. I was worried there for a while since everyone was comparing it to CoD, now I know that's not the case.
The Faceless Master
Member
as long as it's in multi, i'm good! though i admit it sucks for other people... the "quick action game" claim doesn't seem to jive with the rest of the controls though.AgentOtaku said:
The craziest part is, it doesn't have that effect. All it does is not allow you to use anything for aim but pushing in the right stick. If I want to stay under cover, I'm going to stay there until I'm ready to get out, more so if I have to physically click the stick in again to exit iron-sights. If they didn't want people to sit under cover, don't make using cover so advantageous.AgentOtaku said:
They couldn't have said that.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Zen said:
Before the demo I was kind of excited for it, but after the demo I'm probably going to pass. I don't think it flows terribly well (the cover system isn't terribly well implemented and it's slow moving) and it doesn't do anything novel in gameplay terms. Maybe if I was a big FPS fan I'd be more interested, but I'm not.
Between this and Resident Evil 5, nobody on GAF will be buying two of the most anticipated games this gen. No wonder the hardcore crowd is being overwhelmed by casual gamers, we're too damn picky.LiveFromKyoto said:
I'm getting both. I've played the demo at least 10 times, and I had a blast.
Ploid 3.0
Member
Pojo said:
To each his own. These companies don't need everyone to be happy with everything. They want them to, but that's never going to happen. If you're buying it good, if you're not good that's $60 you saved.
For these individual people that may be a bit upset at the thought that people are canceling preorders after playing a demo to these games, it's not worth being upset over. It won't effect you at all. Some people may have liked it and decided to buy it after having no interest. RE5's co op might be the only reason some people are interested in it. Killzone2's MP may be the only reason people are interested in it (beta invite after having no interest in it). These people, and the people that are getting the games no matter what will be able to enjoy it no matter who decided not to buy it.
blazinglazers
Member
//edit//
Aaand playing it for the fourth time everything clicked. Control scheme #1 works great, chalk me up to the "needed more time to adjust" crew.
Aaand playing it for the fourth time everything clicked. Control scheme #1 works great, chalk me up to the "needed more time to adjust" crew.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Zen said:
Before the demo, I had a pre-order in for Amazon.com
After the demo, Not buying but renting. If game grabs me in MP... I'll buy a copy.
Before the demo I had no pre-order, but I was anxious to get it quickly after it hit shelfs.
After the demo: I'm still buying it, but I can stand to wait a week+ before I happen to be in a store on another venture.
Honestly I think this demo hurt more than it helped. I'll outline my impressions later.
After the demo: I'm still buying it, but I can stand to wait a week+ before I happen to be in a store on another venture.
Honestly I think this demo hurt more than it helped. I'll outline my impressions later.
Zen said:
I played the MP beta before the demo, that's what sold me on the game.
After playing the demo, I'm still buying the game. While it's immersion is beyond what any other FPS has done outside of Bioshock and HL2, it's just another FPS. How much can you change the genre? Outside of even Bioshock, there's nothing else really doing anything different. Where were all the gripes with Halo? CoD4? They most certainly did nothing different, just like 99.5% of all the other shooters.
I'm going to buy it for the MP though, as that's what sold me was the fun of it. Not the eye candy and sound, but the gameplay in MP is incredible. The only people that are going to complain about it are the scrubs that lack FPS skills that want the game to shoot people for you like the others, and those upset it's a PS3 only title.
Psychotext
Member
I'd be a 2. Still getting it (I have it on pre-order for a good price)... but I wasn't massively blown away by the gameplay.Zen said:
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Pojo said:
It's funny that you should say that, I DLed the demo for that too today and got bored halfway through and turned it off. :lol
That game's gorgeous too though.
Are we? There's still tons of other great stuff to play from last year, I haven't even started my copy of Fallout 3, let alone checked out Dead Space (maybe I should get that demo next...). I think there's plenty out there that's been lauded by the hardcore, as much as anybody can realistically play.
There's still SF IV!
Private Hoffman
Banned
Psychotext said:
What were you expecting from the gameplay?
What I found was a game that has great AI and gunplay with a very unique cover system that adds another dimension to the first person genre.
It's just a great, rather conventional, single player shooter.
I would say much of the novelty comes with the multiplayer portion of the game, which stood out to me as really distancing itself from how other shooters play (in a very good way).
Psychotext
Member
Expecting? Nothing. Sometimes I play a game and the gameplay grabs me instantly, this didn't. Initially I was quite unimpressed but after playing a few more times and tweaking the controls the game felt much better. I'm sure it will be a solid SP experience.Private Hoffman said:
There was just nothing outside of the graphics which wowed me.
Private Hoffman said:
Honestly, I was expecting the AI to be more dynamic. Case and point, the werehouse section. Now, I do think that the AI is very good at its stated goal, taht being to sit back, generally provide supressive fire, and present the player with a nice wall of targets to kill.
But if you try at mess with them, they're very one dimensional.
I think this is best shown during the 'cover me while I blow the door' sequence right at the end. If you just sit there right at Garzas back... nothing happens. The Helghast do not come up the stairs, they don't guestimate were you are and throw a grenade to try and flush you out, they just assume positions and sit there idle until you enter their line of sight.
Now if you go into the office area, it's quite odd, being that the Helghast will move to position to cover your line of sight from within the office between the rest of the structure and the doors, but only say one helghast will ever traverse to the office section proper, I managed to fish that one (it's only ever one from my experience and replays) to the open door way that faces Garza, practically begging for the Helghast to... do what I hoped they were able to do.
Instead of throwing a Grenade down at us (the smart thing to do) he stopped, fired, moved out of my LOS, then, instead of taking side cover by the open door, he just stood right in the door and fired at me.
And easy kill, with no assistance from his team.
Without any backup, or throwing a grenade in, or anything. Just one Helghast, you'd figure if they were closing in on the door section, as the game suggests, they'd actually be moving up if it was deemed that you'd left them with a tactical oportunity to do so.
Now, to be fair this IS the first level and these are the generic 'all round' Helghast, not the agressive type, but they don't seem to do much besides reposition themselves properly -whilst providing decent covering fire- and providing you with some targets to shoot.
I never get the impression that they're 'thinking' or reacting intelligently, they'll sit there with their heads exposed (a conciet of it being a game, I understand), or a part of their body, and even if you shoot them, their response isn't to 'oh crap' shimmy to position themselves more completely behind cover, but to slowly blind fire.
The AI of the typical all round helghast is good at the static 'light gun' esque role they've assigned for it, it's just terribly inflexible. Maybe they intetionally turned down its agressiveness in this sequence, being the first level, but a few grenades would have done wonders for them, and not the poorly thrown grenade that only lands by you if you are crouched behind the rail just right when they first repel down and establish their positions.
And the Knife does work a bit too well, maybe they should have kept the secondary fire that the Helghast rifle had in KZ1.
Zen, you played the game on normal, the opening tutorial level at that. What did you expect?
I can tell you now that on the harder difficulties they don't always react the same way. In-fact, interesting point you brought up about the Hellghast sitting behind cover with their heads exposed. On harder difficulties, if you just fire one shot above their head. Even if they didn't see the bullet (just heard it whizzing past) they will actually crouch so low that you can't see them, and shuffle about to pop out from a different spot, take a few pot shots, then dive back in to cover out of sight, and pop out from a different spot to shoot.
It's funny because so many times I hd my aiming reticule waiting for a Hellghan to pop up, only to find he'd sneakily changed position and popped up elsewhere to blast a few shots in my chest, and then dart back in to cover sneakily before I could even shoot him!
Point is, play it on the harder difficulties before judging the AI for it's full merit.
I can tell you now that on the harder difficulties they don't always react the same way. In-fact, interesting point you brought up about the Hellghast sitting behind cover with their heads exposed. On harder difficulties, if you just fire one shot above their head. Even if they didn't see the bullet (just heard it whizzing past) they will actually crouch so low that you can't see them, and shuffle about to pop out from a different spot, take a few pot shots, then dive back in to cover out of sight, and pop out from a different spot to shoot.
It's funny because so many times I hd my aiming reticule waiting for a Hellghan to pop up, only to find he'd sneakily changed position and popped up elsewhere to blast a few shots in my chest, and then dart back in to cover sneakily before I could even shoot him!
Point is, play it on the harder difficulties before judging the AI for it's full merit.
AgentOtaku
Member
Pojo said:
I just don't get that explanation
I don't even regard if it conflicts with the game's "deliberately paced nature" ...IT'S JUST FUCK ALL UNCOMFORTABLE!
I want to use cover assholes! ...what the hell does it matter if i'm spared some discomfort by just toggling the shit....I'll still be using the system at the desired "deliberate pace"
nib95 said:
Guerilla should have given us the option to play that sequence on higher difficulties if they were keen on making the AI scale, as is the Helghast in the demo don't seem all that flexible. I already said that "Yes this is the opening area so that may account for how easy the AI goes on you".
It just doesn't make a good impression on me to have the Helghast do nothing to advance on your position in that section when it's explicitly stated that theya re going to be doing so (though they actually do a decent job of advancing during the APC section if you go to the far right cover by the turret, which just brings up a feeling of inconsistency).
EDIT: I guess I should have prefaced my comments with 'my experience based off of the demo stuck on normal'. I'll be getting the game, and I hope what you're saying is true.
Danne-Danger
Member
I guess they just don't want troops to knock over your buddy in the warehouse section since, as you said, they behave quite differently during the beach section, pushing your team back out to the sea while constantly moving forward. They probably put some invisible wall for all but one helghast at the stairs in the warehouse (I can also only get one to come up, he went as far as the doorway facing Garza or whatever he's called).Zen said:
Other than that I actually find the AI to be pretty dynamic, contrary to what you said. If you flank them, they'll move to new cover. If you suppress them they won't "pop up" into the hail of bullets (and sometimes slide into a new position). They're actively trying to flank you if you don't have them in your sights and if you spot them they fall back and look for cover, they generally don't stay out in the open if you're shooting at them.
My main issue with it is same as yours though, the fact that they won't recognize that they're being hit behind cover, thats a bit of a bummer.
All in all I'd say that the AI is pretty damn good, and I can't wait to fight against it in a higher difficulty when they'll hopefully be armed with something other than the peashooters they seem to use in the demo.
Zen said:
Before the demo it was a sure buy and I had a preorder on Amazon.
After playing the demo three times now I'm going to cancel the preorder and just rent it instead. It does many things right, but the core gameplay (shooting) just doesn't feel any good to me. It's not a controller issue as I had no problem adapting to Resistance 2, but a game design one - the heavy weight of the guns and slow turning/sensitivity, the lack of cover toggle, etc all make it feel rather clunky to me. Since you'll be shooting and taking cover the entire game that's a pretty big problem for me.
Still going to rent it though as I want to experience the single player campaign. Doing the same with RE5.
Private Hoffman
Banned
Sean said:
That's strange. I found the controls not a huge departure from most shooters and pretty easy to adjust after just a few rounds once you get the hang of how the combat is supposed to flow.
How did you manage playing your favorite game of last year? Because those vehicle controls were pretty much unmanageable to me.
Gears has very heavy, weighted movements and a slow turning radius, but you didn't seem to have much issue with that.
Private Hoffman
Banned
Uncharted doesn't have slow movement at all, Gears does though. I can enjoy both and have no problem adjusting to a different style of play.
Yeah, a lot of games have slower movements. I just don't see how someone could find a game like Gears to be manageable, but KZ2 to not be manageable; both have heavy weighted movements. That's what strikes me as odd about some people complaining about the weighted controls while being perfectly fine with how Gears plays.
I don't see how the third person distinction matters much, either.
Yeah, a lot of games have slower movements. I just don't see how someone could find a game like Gears to be manageable, but KZ2 to not be manageable; both have heavy weighted movements. That's what strikes me as odd about some people complaining about the weighted controls while being perfectly fine with how Gears plays.
I don't see how the third person distinction matters much, either.
Private Hoffman said:
The reticule in gears is nothing like the one in Killzone. The weightiness carries over here, causing you to overshoot targets and I think that is the number 1 reason that the controls are getting so much mention. There is something odd about it...and I think I may have gotten used to it. But the fact that I HAVE to get used to FPS controls, considering I've played pretty much every FPS out there many many times is strange to me.
Future said:
Again, hate to repeat myself, but it's basically because every other console shooter a.) has a tonne more auto aim and aim assist, and b.) has sensitivity slightly higher by default. The aiming is imo quite different from most other shooters, but the main reason for that is the lack of auto aim. I personally wish more shooters would go the KZ2 route. It's the first console fps where you can really say you completely earned your kill and it had nothing to do with anything but your own aiming precision and skill.
Naturally, people tend to favour things that are easier and also often think that being easy automatically equals more fun. I disagree, I'm all for realism and a challenge. As long as a control scheme allows me to get accurate kills, head shots and the like, I don't care for a lack of auto aim, instead I commend the developers for having the balls to go down that route. Just makes getting great kills that little bit more satisfying.
I feel the same way. I love the demos for both games and still have both pre-ordered. I think that any big game is bound to draw a lot of hate. Look at what happened to Halo 3, GTA4, MGS4, Resistance 2 etc. As they got closer to release the threads became more and more nonsensical. I feel like some people play a game just looking to rip it apart since they aren't that interested anyways.Pojo said: