• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Kinect - $150 / £130 / €150 - Kinect Adventures bundled

ReBurn

Member
Dec 6, 2008
10,952
846
1,090
SC USA
surly said:
Wouldn't anyone that's into downloading DLC, XBLA or Indie Games go for the 250 GB model? 4 GB is plenty for a lot of casual gamers I'm sure, but if not they can use any USB stick or they can buy a hard drive at a later date (MS are bound to release them).

If 4 GB is not "in line with the current needs of even the most casual of the players" then how does the Wii get by with 512 MB? The most casual of players will just set up a gamertag on the 360 and use the storage for game saves and nothing else.
4GB is probably adequate. I still have 11 GB free on my 360 Pro. You know the one with the 20GB drive that's really a 13GB drive? So I could make it.

But I believe that the $299 bundle should have Kinect AND the 250 GB drive. That's just me, though.
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2008
6,710
5
895
Atlanta, GA
makingmusic476 said:
Yeah, that doesn't sound promising in the slightest.

Engadget sourced PC World (who sourced GamesIndustry.biz, who require you to log in to view the article?):
It's funny how people twist words around for hits. No where did he say it would take 18 months. He said over the coming 18 months we will see more of these experiences. Hell Fable 3 is coming out this Holiday with Kinect support. This is the direct quote GameIndustry:

Q: Sampling is definitely something that worked strongly for Nintendo with the Wii as well, so it's a good strategy. Looking ahead 12-18 months down the line, what's your sense of what the balance of Kinect and non-Kinect games will be? Do you envisage games with which you can use a normal controller or Kinect experiences? Do you see lots of Kinect-exclusive titles coming out?

Chris Lewis: That's a great question - I think you'll see all of those things. Certainly over the launch phase and this Christmas in particular I think you'll see very much pure Kinect for 360 experiences that will appeal to the broad young/older/female/family audiences I described earlier.

I'll say again, at the risk of sounding like a cracked record, that doesn't in any way, shape or form represent us stepping away from the core - which is why, during the press conference at E3 for example, we spent a good solid chunk of time around Halo Reach, Gears of War and Fable. And there will be more coming from us, and our third party partners.

But to answer your question, will we see more of these hybrid experiences coming, where you can complement what might ostensibly be a controller-based experience with gestures, voice and physical movement? Yes, I think that will come. I think there's an overlap there, a logical and a good one.

Again, without compromising on the experience, making sure it's incremental and generally advantageous to the experience, then you'll see those types of experiences coming over time. And therefore I think all of the different types of gaming experiences you describe will become available over the coming 18 months or so.
 

beast786

Member
Oct 12, 2007
15,765
0
0
Detroit
PSGames said:
It's funny how people twist words around for hits. No where did he say it would take 18 months. He said over the coming 18 months we will see more of these experiences. Hell Fable 3 is coming out this Holiday with Kinect support. This is the direct quote GameIndustry:

"....describe will become available over the coming 18 months or so"

Uh... I am not sure what you are trying to say. Buts thats exactly what that means. 18 months from now.

I am not sure what makes you think otherwise?
 

scently

Member
Jul 14, 2009
1,738
0
855
PSGames said:
It's funny how people twist words around for hits. No where did he say it would take 18 months. He said over the coming 18 months we will see more of these experiences. Hell Fable 3 is coming out this Holiday with Kinect support. This is the direct quote GameIndustry:
People will believe what they want to believe as long as it suits their agenda.
 

slider

Member
Nov 7, 2006
8,702
1
0
London
OldJadedGamer said:
I think the reasoning is that they said games would had to be made from the ground up for Kinect and that you couldn't shoehorn it into current games.
That's admirable (I know it sounds like I'm being facetious but I'm not). And I can see why MS want to launch the hw now. Those softcore players better sustain this thing until the hardcore sw comes out. Actually, oin 2nd thoughts, 18months is too short a timespan for any hw to die.
 

MarshMellow96

Member
Sep 1, 2009
6,218
0
0
ReBurn said:
4GB is probably adequate. I still have 11 GB free on my 360 Pro. You know the one with the 20GB drive that's really a 13GB drive? So I could make it.

But I believe that the $299 bundle should have Kinect AND the 250 GB drive. That's just me, though.
So it's not really going to be 4GB then is it?
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2008
6,710
5
895
Atlanta, GA
beast786 said:
"....describe will become available over the coming 18 months or so"

Uh... I am not sure what you are trying to say. Buts thats exactly what that means. 18 months from now.

I am not sure what makes you think otherwise?
If I tell you I will be releasing something over the next 18 months that means anytime within those 18 months. It could be released 2, 3 or 6 months after and they would all fall within 'over the coming 18 months'.

It's not hard to understand.
 

DangerousDave

Member
Mar 27, 2009
4,281
0
0
OldJadedGamer said:
I think the reasoning is that they said games would had to be made from the ground up for Kinect and that you couldn't shoehorn it into current games.
That's a shitty excuse. You don't need to make from the ground up, without having even a engine, for a game.

I could argue Resident Evil 4, or Resident Evil 5. But, even with Kinect, the most hardcore games that they have shown has been already created games with Kinect support (Burnout, Katamari Damacy, Geometry Wars, Forza).
 

Mrbob

Member
Jun 7, 2004
63,747
6
0
ReBurn said:
4GB is probably adequate. I still have 11 GB free on my 360 Pro. You know the one with the 20GB drive that's really a 13GB drive? So I could make it.

But I believe that the $299 bundle should have Kinect AND the 250 GB drive. That's just me, though.
 

mujun

Member
Dec 5, 2008
8,302
0
0
Osaka
glaurung said:
I just got home from the pub and what do I see in my inbox? Microsoft trying to sell me a console with 4 GB hard drive!



What the f*** is this, the year 1998? Seriously, is this a joke?
You do realize that the previous iteration of the Arcade SKU has 512mb memory, right?

Fake indignation?
 

ntropy

Member
Apr 25, 2008
3,584
208
1,055
PSGames said:
If I tell you I will be releasing something over the next 18 months that means anytime within those 18 months. It could be released 2, 3 or 6 months after and they would all fall within 'over the coming 18 months'.

It's not hard to understand.
why not simply say "in the coming months"? maybe i'm reading too much into 18 months. still a bit peculiar.
 

OldJadedGamer

Banned
Feb 28, 2006
18,281
0
0
CVG
DangerousDave said:
That's a shitty excuse. You don't need to make from the ground up, without having even a engine, for a game.

I could argue Resident Evil 4, or Resident Evil 5. But, even with Kinect, the most hardcore games that they have shown has been already created games with Kinect support (Burnout, Katamari Damacy, Geometry Wars, Forza).
Can you show me where these games where shown with Kinect support *after* they removed the hardware chips from the camera?
 

beast786

Member
Oct 12, 2007
15,765
0
0
Detroit
PSGames said:
If I tell you I will be releasing something over the next 18 months that means anytime within those 18 months. It could be released 2, 3 or 6 months after and they would all fall within 'over the coming 18 months'.

It's not hard to understand.

There is a difference between " over " and "within".

For example.

The ball stop within the line
The ball stop over the line

The word over means across as in .. The ball cross over the line". Not within.

Hence over the 18 months means, past/cross that time. If he would have stated your way then he would have said " within the coming 18 months"

Again, there is NO twisting going on, atleast in that article.
 

PSGames

Junior Member
Apr 1, 2008
6,710
5
895
Atlanta, GA
beast786 said:
There is a difference between " over " and "within".

For example.

The ball stop within the line
The ball stop over the line

The word over means across as in .. The ball cross over the line". Not within.

Hence over the 18 months means, past/cross that time. If he would have stated your way then he would have said " within the coming 18 months"

Again, there is NO twisting going on, atleast in that article.
:lol

Look if I tell you I will keep you updated over the next 18 months. What does that say to you?

woodypop said:
Hmm...my impression of "over" in that instance means "across the span of."
Exactly.

BenjaminBirdie said:
But you know it won't be any time soon otherwise they would have picked a lower number, for placation's sake.
Who knows. The original question used the 18 month number so that's probably why he used it.

Like I stated before Fable 3 is a hybrid game and it will be out this Holiday.
 

DaBuddaDa

Member
Sep 12, 2004
10,804
0
1,290
beast786 said:
There is a difference between " over " and "within".

For example.

The ball stop within the line
The ball stop over the line

The word over means across as in .. The ball cross over the line". Not within.

Hence over the 18 months means, past/cross that time. If he would have stated your way then he would have said " within the coming 18 months"

Again, there is NO twisting going on, atleast in that article.
You are hilariously wrong.
 
beast786 said:
There is a difference between " over " and "within".

For example.

The ball stop within the line
The ball stop over the line

The word over means across as in .. The ball cross over the line". Not within.

Hence over the 18 months means, past/cross that time. If he would have stated your way then he would have said " within the coming 18 months"

Again, there is NO twisting going on, atleast in that article.
You've seriously never seen this context of over before? o_O

Dictionary said:
18.
throughout the duration of: over a long period of years.
Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Over
 

Chauncy Talon

Member
May 3, 2009
2,012
0
855
So whatever you live at it will be 150. Microsoft is about to make a killing from Euro and the UK, but in Australia at 150 is a still.
 

beast786

Member
Oct 12, 2007
15,765
0
0
Detroit
PSGames said:
:lol

Look if I tell you I will keep you updated over the next 18 months. What does that say to you?



.

:lol

But what if your updates takse over 18 months. Then what.?

:D

Anyway. Its a crappy issue. And hopefully them have some cool Ground up games to show.
 

RavenFox

Banned
Dec 26, 2005
7,813
0
0
www.cafemaroon.com
beast786 said:
There is a difference between " over " and "within".

For example.

The ball stop within the line
The ball stop over the line

The word over means across as in .. The ball cross over the line". Not within.

Hence over the 18 months means, past/cross that time. If he would have stated your way then he would have said " within the coming 18 months"

Again, there is NO twisting going on, atleast in that article.
:lol
 

Hypereides

Member
Jan 19, 2009
7,832
569
1,035
Denmark
At that price its set to be doomed, especially on the limitation of 2 players. And that you can basically find a Wii worth more for a slightly higher price.

This is a travesty in the making.
 
Aug 27, 2009
10,999
0
0
Galvanise_ said:
My point is valid. They have made a massive hoo-hah about Kinect being controller free, and that Kinect will liberate us from buttons, that buttons have been limiting our experiences all this time. . .and then people say 'I hope we can use the controller too', which goes against the 'You are the controller' mantra Microsoft has.
You obviously haven't been paying attention. "You are the controller" mantra is primarily aimed at casuals, core audiences were promised hybrid control solutions the very day Project Natal was unveiled.

By the way, seeing as you take marketing lines so literally, does it also bother you that PlayStation 3 doesn't really do everything?
 

DangerousDave

Member
Mar 27, 2009
4,281
0
0
OldJadedGamer said:
Can you show me where these games where shown with Kinect support *after* they removed the hardware chips from the camera?
Well, they shown Forza in E3 2010. And I'm sure that if they managed to add kinect controls to Forza, without the hardware chips, they should be able to add kinect to Burnout, Katamari or Geometry Wars, without that chip. Unless, of course, all that Forza thing was smoke and mirrors...

Geometry Wars 2 was ported to Wii, to the graphical power of the Wii and the control of the Wii, and they didn't redo the game from scratch.
 

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
18,986
1,410
1,380
chubigans said:
My problem is, what mainstream games would you want to play like that?
Current mainstream games work perfectly fine with a regular controller... The question we should ask ourselves is "what NEW games could be made using this technology ?".

Before the creation of the mouse, games like point&click or modern RTS couldn't exist. Offering a new control system opens new possibilities, sometimes it can enhance existing experiences (like FPS evolving from Doom to Quake), but most of the time they will create new ones.
 

Razgreez

Member
Nov 15, 2009
2,041
0
740
South Africa
Alx said:
Current mainstream games work perfectly fine with a regular controller... The question we should ask ourselves is "what NEW games could be made using this technology ?".

Before the creation of the mouse, games like point&click or modern RTS couldn't exist. Offering a new control system opens new possibilities, sometimes it can enhance existing experiences (like FPS evolving from Doom to Quake), but most of the time they will create new ones.
So... what new possibilities does kinect open up? I envisioned great things before but once it's limitations became ever clearer i now see very little potential. As i similarly asked another poster further up in this thread, how does kinect capture your imagination? What potential can you realistically see in it keeping in mind its current stumbling blocks
 

Subitai

Member
Jun 9, 2004
8,363
0
0
Given that this is coming out during the holidays and most of the first shipment will go to pre-orders i don't think it will be a problem until sometime in Feb. when supply catches up with demand. With a bad response, they'll just lower the price. I trust MS's market research, and I feel the only thing that could mess this up is the economy getting appreciably worse. Looking back at past holidays with the Wii, it is clear that Nintendo left a ton of cash to ebay/craigslist scalpers and MS doesn't want to make that same mistake. If they're wrong they can just lower the price, but if they sold at $99 and scalpers were getting $200 through March then they can't go back and raise the price. If this was coming out over the summer, then there would certainly be oversupply issues at $150.
 

DangerousDave

Member
Mar 27, 2009
4,281
0
0
Alx said:
Current mainstream games work perfectly fine with a regular controller... The question we should ask ourselves is "what NEW games could be made using this technology ?".

Before the creation of the mouse, games like point&click or modern RTS couldn't exist. Offering a new control system opens new possibilities, sometimes it can enhance existing experiences (like FPS evolving from Doom to Quake), but most of the time they will create new ones.
But you assume that Kinect is a whole NEW controller. But in reality is an evolution of EyeToy. Yeah, it's more precise, it detects 3D, but it's not like inventing the mouse. It's more like inventing the mousewheel, or a more precise mouse.

Companies already though what to do with a camera, with the Eyetoy. And you can see that Kinect games are evolutions (nicer, more precise, better) of those Eyetoy ones, not something new from scratch.
 

antiquegamer

Member
Apr 14, 2009
5,383
0
0
Washington
www.microforever.com
beast786 said:
There is a difference between " over " and "within".

For example.

The ball stop within the line
The ball stop over the line

The word over means across as in .. The ball cross over the line". Not within.

Hence over the 18 months means, past/cross that time. If he would have stated your way then he would have said " within the coming 18 months"

Again, there is NO twisting going on, atleast in that article.
Seriously, english is not my first language but I perfectly understand what over the next 18 months mean. I read the quote and it is essentially saying that after this initial launch window of Kinect we will then see the more core games over the coming months. It's really not that hard, but then again going by your previous post why is this not surprising.
 

mclem

Member
Jan 16, 2007
42,665
3
1,190
Alx said:
Current mainstream games work perfectly fine with a regular controller... The question we should ask ourselves is "what NEW games could be made using this technology ?".

Before the creation of the mouse, games like point&click or modern RTS couldn't exist. Offering a new control system opens new possibilities, sometimes it can enhance existing experiences (like FPS evolving from Doom to Quake), but most of the time they will create new ones.
Point & Click is technically an interface, not a genre, although the modern iteration of the genre uses that interface exclusively, hence why the terms have become synonymous. However, the early Sierra AGI adventures could run fine without a mouse, and are clearly the same sort of thing as (say) DOTT albeit with a different interface. In other words, the *new* interface *enhanced* the existing game model.

Modern RTSes are similar, but I'd probably give you that given that the mouse did open up convenience to select quantities of units at speed, which was a pretty big boost. Not that it's impossible to work them without it - Dune 2 appeared on the Genesis - but it's a pretty direct factor in its playability.

The thing with both of those examples is that the basic gametype *did* exist prior to the new control interface, the interface itself enhanced them and made them something far more streamlined and powerful.

We're just not seeing that with Kinect, at least not yet. I'm not saying that it's an impossibility... but it *is* something that's needed if Kinect is to be the future of control interfaces rather than a fun little sideline.

Oh, yeah, by the way: Even Wolfenstein 3D had the option for mouse control. The control scheme had nothing to do with the evolution there.
 

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
18,986
1,410
1,380
Razgreez said:
As i similarly asked another poster further up in this thread, how does kinect capture your imagination? What potential can you realistically see in it keeping in mind its current stumbling blocks
Well kinect "captures my imagination" mainly in applications that are not game related.
The main idea is that because it doesn't require a controller and can read natural movements, it can be made available at any time for all sorts of services. A bit like the old cliché of the Pasha in ancient Middle-East, clapping his hands and asking for anything and a slave will bring it to him.
In this case, it will not revolutionize the applications themselves, but the way you have access to them. Browse the local news and check weather previsions while eating your breakfast. Play an interactive recipe while you're cooking at the same time. Take a video call while watching TV. Or do any combination of those.

As for the use in games, you have to think about the strengths of the device and not its weaknesses, to see what can be done.
The main feature is that it measures an information that is less precise than a button press, but also more complex. Because current games were made for buttons, skill is based on pressing the right button at the right time (so there are few possible actions, but you have strict conditions on how to use them). Kinect games allow for many more actions (all the body motions you can imagine), but will have to be much more tolerant on the timing (because of the measurement precision, and also because most gamers are not professional dancers).
So for example in a fighting game (a genre I like :D), the gameplay shall not be based on frame priority, but on move quality. The better your motion / balance / posture, the more damage it will cause.
I also think that there are many genres to be created, but not based on controlling a character (it may not please most of gamers today who ask for "immersion" in games, but that's not all there is to it). Actually kinect is not really suited for many games of that type, especially because 1:1 reading cannot reproduce the walking/running task conveniently. So there is probably something to do based on "moving objects around" rather than "controlling the gestures of a character".

The other strength of kinect (being always available) can be used for games too. Because it is always there, you can "hop in" and "hop out" at any time, which will make it much more comfortable for short game sessions and killing time. Today's equivalent would be an old crossword magazine lingering in your living room, that you can grab for a few minutes (or hours), and leave to be finished later. You could do a crosswords videogame, but nobody would want to grab a remote controller, power up a console, launch the game... unless they intend to "play" for at least 30 minutes.

So that's my immediate ideas. Of course few of them would really revolutionize gaming as we know it, but I would say that it is precisely the point. Microsoft doesn't (or shouldn't) target kinect at making "hardcore" games better. It is more about getting a seamless link between the user and the machine, so the console (and its software, services,...) is a permanent part of the environment.

DangerousDave said:
But you assume that Kinect is a whole NEW controller. But in reality is an evolution of EyeToy. Yeah, it's more precise, it detects 3D, but it's not like inventing the mouse. It's more like inventing the mousewheel, or a more precise mouse.
No, because kinect doesn't make "the same thing as eyetoy, only better", it provides new information. The eyetoy never provided a body analysis. You were controlling the games through your image, not your body. It may sound a technicality, but it changes a lot on the concept and the possibilities. There is a difference between a commande based on "move something in this part of the screen" and "raise your left hand and bend your right knee" (which, now that I think about it, wouldn't even require you to look at the screen, which is also a strong point).
In theory eyetoy could do gesture analysis, only it would require complex algorithms, lots of processing power, would easily be disturbed by environmental conditions. And it would very probably require frequent calibration (like in that PS3 beat'em all game) and constraints on the environment (like "one person at a time in the field of view, please"), which is getting against the "always available" concept. So if you consider what eyetoy could do in the near future, you could say that the kinect features are an evolution of it, except that kinect does it first and does it better.
 

noise36

Member
Nov 19, 2009
465
285
810
In my last post I said I didnt know how I felt about Kinect.

I just saw that it is launching in Australia for $199.

To put that in perspective you can currently buy a 120Gb X360 elite with a couple of games for $198.

sigh MS...