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[jeff_rigby]

Sony TVs could integrate Kinect, report claims

According to The Daily's sources, the Xbox firm wants to "aggressively" push the 360 motion sensor into as many living rooms as possible - even those without games consoles.
Microsoft is said to be in the early stages of licensing Kinect technology to television manufacturers such as Vizio and even Sony, it's claimed.

Revolutionary TVs: It's More than Hardware

Everyone is hard at work at developing a "revolutionary" TV. It will change the way you watch TV. It will be so great that you will have to run out and buy one. According to the Wall Street Journal, Howard Stringer, the head of Sony, has stated that there has been a "tremendous amount of R&D" put into a "different kind of TV set". When talking about Apple's potential future TV, Steve Jobs said in the Walter Issacson biography, "I’d like to create an integrated television set that is completely easy to use. It would be seamlessly synched with all of your devices and with iCloud. It will have the simplest user interface you could imagine. I finally cracked it."

Lenovo has also joined the party with the announcement of a smart TV known as IdeaTV. Like Sony and Apple, Lenovo is pursuing a four-screen strategy that lets you consume your media anywhere (TV, tablet, smartphone, computer). Already in the market with their SmartTVs, Samsung is preparing to launch a new version with Google TV as the underlying platform. Despite the initial announcement at the 2011 Consumer Electronics Show (CES), Samsung was wise not to go to market this year given the failure with the earlier version of Google TV. Samsung has stated that their implementation will be differentiated from other Google TV devices. Samsung is also planning to release OLED-based displays at this January's CES. OLED has the promise of a superior picture in a thinner package with less power consumption.

So, will these new products change TV the way we know it? Hard to say, with manufacturers holding their cards close to the chest. The last big change that drove TV sales was the creation of affordable large flat high-definition (HD) screens. However, it was more than the TV manufacturers building HD capable sets. Content creators and providers also bought in and provided HD TV shows and movies (Content providers love the opportunity to reissue old movies in new formats). All of the innovations since then: 3D, TV apps and low power consumption have not helped to stem the shrinking margins in the TV market. The bottom line is that these new features have not provided any compelling value to the consumer.

Whatever the next big change is to TV, the whole ecosystem needs to come along for the ride. I have not doubt that Apple can implement the technology Steve Jobs described above. However, even if higher resolution sets were available tomorrow, it would take some time for the eco-system to catch-up (2160p anyone?). Even though the Internet provides a ubiquitous and instant way to deliver content, the current infrastructure in the United States struggles to deliver 1080P video to the living room.

It seems the real opportunity lies in giving people the ability to watch any content from any location at any time. Instead of "apps", I would prefer recommendation engines that help me discover new shows that I would like (like Netflix does today). The real problem here is with content providers. As long as we live in a world of content windows and bundles, only the technology side of this challenge will be solved. When the studios are willing to change how they license content, that will create the real TV revolution.

Television Remote controls Samsung, Sony, LG, Vizio

The Clicker's Moment: After 60 Years, TV Remotes Get Zapped With Makeovers
BY MARK WILSONMon Dec 5, 2011

Every TV manufacturer agrees, the remote control will change more in the next three years than it has the previous six decades. But how will it actually change? Sony, Samsung, LG, and Vizio tell us.

Why Has Nothing Changed in Decades?
"Especially in the U.S., there are certain reasons why the remote control has actually not innovated for the last decade or so--it has to do a lot with infrastructure. Cable and satellite provider remote controls are the ones that most consumers utilize...If that's the case, for manufacturers like us, we think, how much more influence could we have if we innovated around the remote? That's sort of the looming question for us." --Mike Abary, Head of Sony Home Entertainment of America.

Television manufacturers told me over and over again that their innovation has been thwarted by our set-top boxes. While Sony may be free to imagine any type of crazy remote scheme to control Sony TVs, it's inevitably thrown by the wayside for the remotes that are packaged, and often preprogrammed, by companies like Comcast and DirecTV.

RVU and Allvid allow a DLNA TV with DTCP-IP DRM to control and display video from a DVR box. It is now possible to throw away the Cablebox DVR remote and only use a TV remote. This and something like Google TV which no longer requires a HDMI in port if connected to a DVR set top box with RVU is going to revolutionize control schemes. RVU was proposed in 2008, the PS3 (androvsky cite) had support for DLNA and DTCP-IP envisioned by late 2009 with firmware 3.0.

RVU revision 1 for thin clients uses a picture of the DVR box Menu generated by the DVR box and displayed on the hardware limited (thin client, Ex: $99.00 Apple TV Box) Revision 2 requires more powerful hardware with webkit support for the UI.

RVU is NOW being implemented by Verizon, Comcast and Direct TV. Samsung working with Direct TV is the first announced with this feature in new TVs available March 2012. TVs shown at CES should feature this and more web (Home Networking) Home control products.

[ VIZIO ]
General Outlook: New technologies will be physical button supplements, not replacements.
Motion: "If you have a gyro, you can take almost every button off a remote and it looks beautiful. But you give it to a consumer, and after a few weeks, they're sick of it."
Touch: "If you look at usability and watch people use this in the living room, there's this look up look down problem with touchscreens…you just watch their necks and it's hilarious."
Voice: "Voice I think is going to be pretty important for navigation, but it needs to be very accurate…imagine, it's 11 at night, you're exhausted, you have to wake up at 5 a.m., and your kid is crying in the middle of the night. It's got to be one of those things that is bulletproof or consumers will reject it."

[ SAMSUNG ]
General Outlook: Consumers will choose their preferred remote, every day.
Motion: No comment, we're too close to CES 2012 in January.
Touch: "If you're in love with your smartphone and you want to download an app to your internet enabled TV, you can control everything that way…if you want to pick up a remote and tell it to switch to channel 206, you can do this, too."
Voice: "Voice is one of those technologies that's being looked at…certainly it's something that us and any other manufacturer is looking at."

[ SONY ]
General Outlook: TVs need to keep up better with other technologies.
Motion: "There is now, especially with the younger generation, a growing, let's call it, expectation that anything that has a screen on it is going to be touch capable or gesture capable. Certainly, I think, the way we interact with a TV will need to change because a TV is the last screen that actually doesn't yet have gesture control capability."
Voice: "In the next 3-5 years, maybe the way people will interact with a TV will not be primarily through a remote--maybe it will be voice, for example. It depends on the demographic. I think the younger demographics...are going to expect and demand a different type of [wholly new] interface."

[ LG ]
General Outlook: The "Holy Grail" is to reduce the remotes on the coffee table.
Motion: "Motion [will come] in a big way." (In fact, LG has a gyroscope remote on the market)
Touch: "Everyone has really responded strongly to things like iPhones and tablets. Making remotes that function in that same familiar way is something you'll see more of….[though] my sense is touch won't be the de facto. It's supplemental. "
Voice: "Voice is an interesting one. The days of saying one thing and having it understand another are coming to an end…[but] I don't think you'll see anyone go all in. It will start in premium sets."

I apologize as logically this post should have been first and then post the Kinect coming to the Sony TV, PS3 or PS4 rumor. I've gone over this in the PS3 Web browser coming for a long time thread several times. RVU is a major game changer whose impact we are only now understanding. Early on several commented on my obsession with webkit, 2012 should provide support for how much effort I put into the PS3 browser thread, it is also a game changer and Charles Ying's post confirms Sony providing support for first IPTV and a new browser in Firmware 3.0 (2009) as well as DTCP-IP envisioned (androvsky cite).

 

[Mindlog]

An attempt to be better prepared for the oft-rumored Apple TV?

Then again I remember the rumours that Microsoft was considering licensing XBOX to 3rd party manufacturers way back in the day.

 

[HollovVpo1nt]

Samsung and LG are pretty close to Microsoft, don't see why they shouldn't support it too.

 

[[Nintex]]

MS is going to 'spin-off' Kinect as their casual/mainstream/embedded push and move Xbox back towards the core. My guess is that Kinect is the Windows 8 App Store trojan horse, get Kinect on your device > get access to the W8 App Store(with an ARM CPU handling that?). Kinda the MS way to take on Apple. Xbox 360 however will lose one of it's main seling points(Kinect) so that will be replaced with a new core box, since that development support, COD/Halo/Fifa etc. money is just too good not to pursue.

 

[Massa]

MS is going to 'spin-off' Kinect as their casual/mainstream/embedded push and move Xbox back towards the core. My guess is that Kinect is the Windows 8 App Store trojan horse, get Kinect on your device > get access to the W8 App Store(with an ARM CPU handling that?). Kinda the MS way to take on Apple. Xbox 360 however will lose one of it's main seling points(Kinect) so that will be replaced with a new core box, since that development support, COD/Halo/Fifa etc. money is just too good not to pursue.

I don't think that's likely. Microsoft has been pushing Kinect on core games, not branching it off.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Samsung and LG are pretty close to Microsoft, don't see why they shouldn't support it too.

The next big thing is webkit in TVs and a simple control is needed. W3C and TV workshop

MS is going to 'spin-off' Kinect as their casual/mainstream/embedded push and move Xbox back towards the core. My guess is that Kinect is the Windows 8 App Store trojan horse, get Kinect on your device > get access to the W8 App Store(with an ARM CPU handling that?). Kinda the MS way to take on Apple. Xbox 360 however will lose one of it's main seling points(Kinect) so that will be replaced with a new core box, since that development support, COD/Halo/Fifa etc. money is just too good not to pursue.

Makes sense, casual use and browsing, searching, Google TV like interface = Bing

 

[Mindlog]

MS is going to 'spin-off' Kinect as their casual/mainstream/embedded push and move Xbox back towards the core. My guess is that Kinect is the Windows 8 App Store trojan horse, get Kinect on your device > get access to the W8 App Store(with an ARM CPU handling that?). Kinda the MS way to take on Apple. Xbox 360 however will lose one of it's main seling points(Kinect) so that will be replaced with a new core box, since that development support, COD/Halo/Fifa etc. money is just too good not to pursue.

Hypothetically, it would also be one of their greatest opportunities to make Bing relevant.

 

[Chittagong]

So Kinect inside a Sony TV, and you use it to say things like "Kinect, play PlayStation"

 

[[Nintex]]

Hypothetically, it would also be one of their greatest opportunities to make Bing relevant.

Yeps, MS is going to make some big moves in 2012 that's for sure.

So Kinect inside a Sony TV, and you use it to say things like "Kinect, play PlayStation"

"Kinect, Play Angry Birds"

This is the Windows strategy to the letter. Instead of having to buy a Macintosh to get the graphical user interface you could just buy Windows or any device capable of running Windows. They'll push Kinect into TV's and such first and then release that smallish Xbox Loop thing box that you can hook up to a TV that doesn't have it build in. No need for iOS or iPhone or iPad to reach the Microsoft App Store. You can control everything with Kinect and tie everything together(phone, TV, tablet...) using some sort of W8 core(embedded on the ARM CPU).

 

[ionicbluebird]

Hope Sony counters instead with eye3's in Hitachi's, Toshiba's, and their own TV's

I mean there is this after all: http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/15/sony-toshiba-hitachi-officially-announce-joint-venture-form-j/

Console wars moving beyond the consoles

 

[jeff_rigby]

Hope Sony counters instead with eye3's in Hitachi's, Toshiba's, and their own TV's

I mean there is this after all: http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/15/sony-toshiba-hitachi-officially-announce-joint-venture-form-j/

Console wars moving beyond the consoles

Sony-Toshiba-Hitachi

Japan Display is expected to utilize the world's best high value-added technologies of the Subject Subsidiaries and establish new production lines by utilizing funds provided by INCJ, in order to meet the market demand for high value-added products. In addition, through efficient use of the existing production capabilities of the Subject Subsidiaries, Japan Display aims to improve its cost competitiveness to solidify its position as a global leading company in the small- and medium-sized display market. The business is scheduled to begin operations in Spring of 2012, subject to the receipt of any necessary government approvals.

That's two markets they are going into. Sharp missing might confirm Sharp and Apple combining for the Apple TV in 2012.

This TV talk is slightly off topic, it's needed to help confirm a reason for Sony to adopt Kinect in their TVs. The reason for it's (Sony-Kinect) inclusion in the Gaming Forum was for Kinect support in the PS4 as rumored by Digitimes. My personal opinion is that Move + Kinect is the best of all possible control systems.

 

[Rolf NB]

Hope Sony counters instead with eye3's in Hitachi's, Toshiba's, and their own TV's

I mean there is this after all: http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/15/sony-toshiba-hitachi-officially-announce-joint-venture-form-j/

Console wars moving beyond the consoles

You could use a PSEye(-like) camera as one of the Kinect cameras. Probably the color feed.

Spoiler

None of this will ever make it onto shelves

 

[infinityBCRT]

Either last year or the year before around E3 Microsoft demoed a glasses free 3D TV which tracked the heads of the viewers (using a Kinect-like sensor) and adjusted the angle it was beaming out the 3D image. In fact, that prototype TV even had the ability to display TWO completely different 3D images to two viewers without any cross-talk whatsoever. If anything, this could be related to that. Or I guess it could be an attempt to get rid of the remote control. I'm not sure if it will be anything more than these scenarios though.

 

[ionicbluebird]

My personal opinion is that Move + Kinect is the best of all possible control systems.

Oh for sure. Both can be improved upon though (and hopefully will be). However I don't see a Microsoft branded Kinect in Sony TV's anytime soon.

 

[[Nintex]]

I could see Sony go for full body control with the next PlayStation as well. MS and Sony could still be competitors in the gaming space mind you, but at least they'd make sure that whatever form of control Nintendo cooks up next won't be the standard or some sort of hype that Sony/MS can't control.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I could see Sony go for full body control with the next PlayStation as well. MS and Sony could still be competitors in the gaming space mind you, but at least they'd make sure that whatever form of control Nintendo cooks up next won't be the standard or some sort of hype that Sony/MS can't control.

Key here I think for both the TV and Game adoption by Sony of a Kinect Licensed but not branded <grin> system would be it being cheaper to purchase the rights from Microsoft than to develop their own system. How much CPU and memory overhead does the Kinect system require and can it be cheaply supported in a TV embedded SOC.

Most of the high end TVs have already planned 720P Cameras for chat and webkit for browsing so how much additional support is needed?

 

[amdnv]

MS is going to 'spin-off' Kinect as their casual/mainstream/embedded push and move Xbox back towards the core.

No way. The next Xbox will come with the next iteration of Kinect built-in, guaranteed.

 

[Rolf NB]

Are there any TVs with built-in Wii sensor bars?

 

[CaVaYeRo]

Are there any TVs with built-in Wii sensor bars?

This would've been logical since many years ago... but I guess Nintendo didn't want any kind of deal.

Imagine: pre-calibrated lightgun games! Precise pointer navigation! A man can dream.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Are there any TVs with built-in Wii sensor bars?

Yes, the LG upper end with apps support, the Samsung with Webkit and apps. Pointer remote to select apps from the on screen big boxes (Metro like) and it's not true Wii and as a result flaky. My brother in law has an LG and the IR Velcro attaches to the side of the TV.

In fact one of them is using the same China developed 3 axis motion sensor in the Move for their handheld remote. I remember posting about it in BY3D.

TV control has not evolved.....it's time.

 

[monome]

Sony TVs could integrate Kinect, report claims

Well, Kinect sensor + Metro interface makes more sense to me than Android and the Google TV.

I have an iphone 4, a Nook with Cyanogen mod and a new Lumia 800 Nokia Windows Phone and I can tell that Android is in no shape to be a contender to the Windows and Apple interfaces. That said Apple has the most straight forward user interface and a giant catalog to second it.
Microsoft would be wise to "aggressively" pursue that venture if it wants to remain competitive against Apple. Both companies are clearly exploring business further away from their PC business while tying it all together as an ecosystem.

 

[monome]

No way. The next Xbox will come with the next iteration of Kinect built-in, guaranteed.

Having Kinect 2.0 support in the next xbox is a given. That said getting ridd of the production is strategic.
Windows phone will interact with Xbox even though Microsoft is not the manufacturer.
I could see a push towards licensing Kinect as a way of making more mainstream in PCs, TVs, TV-boxes if Microsoft decides a variety of form factors to suit consummers > maintening Kinect brand awareness. Like Zune has morphed into microsoft music service.
If cloud gaming is the way to go for next-next gen, I hardly see them producing the hardware.

 

[Vic]

Key term: "early stages"

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Xbox 360 however will lose one of it's main seling points(Kinect) so that will be replaced with a new core box, since that development support, COD/Halo/Fifa etc. money is just too good not to pursue.

Kinect is just an interface-enabling piece of hardware, Xbox games won't work without a console.

 

[dr_rus]

Some kind of motion sensor in Sony's TVs -- possible. Kinect in Sony's TVs -- not going to happen.

 

[jump_button]

"Sony TV, xbox, bing, BBC1" rolls of the tongue

 

[Alx]

Some kind of motion sensor in Sony's TVs -- possible. Kinect in Sony's TVs -- not going to happen.

Why so ? There are Microsoft OS on Sony computers, they use a Microsoft language for their Playstation Suite SDK, why wouldn't they accept Microsoft sensors on their TVs ?

 

[MeBecomingI]

That would not surprise me, but it also wouldn't surprise me to see Microsoft partner directly with Samsung or some other manufacturer to actually integrate the next Xbox into specific television sets with Kinect or something and sell it as an all-in-one solution.

Likewise, Sony is in a strong position to do the same with the next PlayStation, especially given the vulnerability of their television department. Sony could then sell their own all-in-one, high-end entertainment box comprised of a in-house built Sony T.V, PS4 and potentially the next EyeToy if they make it. They could then charge relatively the same, if not a tiny more, than the market competition and have a leg up.

Regardless, I can totally see Microsoft pushing for this. I've been thinking this for awhile and it seems it might be coming true.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

"Sony, Bing Playstation"

"No results found. DID YOU MEAN: Xbox 360"

 

[Megadragon15]

I wonder if this is the reason that Microsoft did this: http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=437309

 

[Hammer24]

It´d make a lot of sense for Sony and Msft to partner up to a certain degree to keep Apple "out of the livingroom". The pie´d get smaller for both otherwise.

 

[TTP]

Why so ? There are Microsoft OS on Sony computers, they use a Microsoft language for their Playstation Suite SDK, why wouldn't they accept Microsoft sensors on their TVs ?

For the OS part they don't really have much choice do they? If you are not Apple, you simply can't sell computers without Windows.

 

[Alx]

They don't have much of a choice among kinect-like sensors either...

 

[LQX]

It would be cool just to say a channel number or voice turn off and on your TV. Surprised TV 's don't yet have that feature to be honest.

 

[jeff_rigby]

I wonder if this is the reason that Microsoft did this: http://neogaf.net/forum/showthread.php?t=437309

Yeah, Microsoft registering domain names microsoft-sony and sony-microsoft has had us all guessing.

One possible besides Kinect showing up on Sony TVs and PS4 is PS Suite on WP7 platforms and/or WP7 showing up on SONY Phones (reciprocal agreement).

Digitimes rumor

These component manufacturer sources tell DigiTimes that the PlayStation 4 will feature body-movement controls like Microsoft's Kinect. That's the interesting, if not unexpected, part.


The report states Foxconn and Pegatron Technology will assemble the PS4 for Sony. Foxconn and Pegatron Technology both assemble the PS3, which was originally manufactured in Japan.
Sources told DigiTimes that the PS4 will go into production at the end of 2011 for a 2012 launch. Apparently Sony will manufacture 20 million PS4 consoles for 2012.

Sony has revealed that it could release the PlayStation 4 as soon as next year. In an interview with Eurogamer, the CEO of PlayStation Europe, Jim Ryan, said it would be "undesirable" for the next PlayStation to be released much later than its rivals.

We know that Nintendo has the Wii U coming out in 2012, while rumours swirling around Microsoft&#8217;s Xbox 720 point to an unveiling at CES in January. Sony is certainly factoring this news into its plans, meaning we could be seeing a new PlayStation unveiled at CES alongside its rivals.

With Sony&#8217;s revenues suffering after the Japanese earthquake and poor television sales, it&#8217;s clear they&#8217;ll want to earn big with this PlayStation. With the PS3 originally retailing for $999, don't go expecting any bargains this time round &#8211; we could see a more expensive console, but the extra cash will net gamers even more staggering specs than the last.

The PS3 is a home entertainment hub, acting as a games machine, Blu-ray player, web browser and Smart TV; could we see the PS4 taking over from the home computer? With Sony already integrating its subsidiaries like Sony Ericsson, the PS4 could sit at the heart of an Apple-like ecosystem based around tablets, phones and TV.

Rumor based on rumor but the pieces are in place; 28nm die size, GPU (Amd & Nvidia GPU next generation available in mass quantities mid 2012), new GE plastic makes 500 Gig blu-ray affordable, CPU would probably be a IBM power PC cell hybrid and available.

 

[gcubed]

It would be cool just to say a channel number or voice turn off and on your TV. Surprised TV 's don't yet have that feature to be honest.

They tried it decades ago and people preferred pushing buttons. Unless you make it standard in all TVs you sell its not going to succeed.

 

[gofreak]

I could only see this happening if Sony isn't feeling proprietary about the app stores is makes accessible on its TVs (and/or other devices).

And perhaps they won't be - they don't exclude other media/content services from their devices afterall. You can get Sony and non-Sony video streaming services etc.

However those services don't require specific hardware support. App stores probably will, and so I could see them just supporting their own. Unless all these different software platforms will run on an agreed spec.

(That's if we're talking about broad support anyway. I mean who knows, maybe they'll do one-off devices that support MS or Kinect TV software platforms, as they did with Google TV etc.)

 

[bigtroyjon]

It would be cool just to say a channel number or voice turn off and on your TV. Surprised TV 's don't yet have that feature to be honest.

It can suck using voice prompts talking to customer service bots on the phone when you are talking directly into the receiver, probably be frustrating as hell talking to a tv across a noise filled room. Needs the right tech and the right software.

Wouldn't be surprised if this rumor was based around on the voice part of Kinect, companies could build the mic array right into the tv and then Microsoft could custom make software that fully utilized vocal control of all functions including the various smart tv apps.

 

[Hammer24]

They tried it decades ago and people preferred pushing buttons. Unless you make it standard in all TVs you sell its not going to succeed.

iOS and WP7 both show they can do voice recognition, so you can bet Msft and Apple will incorporate that in their TV plans.

 

[jeff_rigby]

For the OS part they don't really have much choice do they? If you are not Apple, you simply can't sell computers without Windows.

Well, it's possible the PS4 will run select open source "PC" applications like "Libre Office". It's going to have enough memory. Keyboards, high resolution displays like 4K resolution 100 inch TVs would allow desktop applications in the living room.

OLED & 4K TV coming....

iOS and WP7 both show they can do voice recognition, so you can bet Msft and Apple will incorporate that in their TV plans.

Siri (voice recognition and more) is coming with the Apple TV/Sharp rumored for the middle of 2012.

Samsung Announces 55&#8243; OLED HDTV Will be Unveiled at CES 2012

Samsung Teases Google TV Launch at CES 2012

LG to Show Off Google TV Hardware at CES 2012


Sony Announces Glasses-Free 3DTVs Coming by 2015

Many manufacturers believe that the ultimate goal of 3D technology with HDTVs is to create displays that do not require 3D glasses in order for viewers to see 3D content. According to Sony&#8217;s Gulf managing director, Osamu Miura, the company plans to release their first glasses-free 3DTV within the next 3-4 years. &#8220;Research is progressing on glasses-free 3D TVs that offer better picture quality, OLED TVs that provide brighter, crisper picture while consuming less power, and 4K technology consumer products which deliver four times the resolution of High Definition (HD),&#8221; he explained. &#8220;We already have the technology for glasses-free 3D TVs and a competitor has launched a product. The technology is being used in our 3D handycam, but it is a very small LCD, if you want to enjoy it on a big screen, it takes time. The current technology cannot satisfy the demand of people, so we are developing it further.&#8221;

So 5 years to 4K OLED in mass production with glasses free 3-D.

 

[JWong]

Why would they integrate Kinect?

PS Eye would be a better choice.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Kinect in its current form has more potential as a remote control device as opposed to a gaming one. This is a good way to leverage that potential.

 

[gcubed]

iOS and WP7 both show they can do voice recognition, so you can bet Msft and Apple will incorporate that in their TV plans.

That's fine, but it won't succeed. Nobody is voluntarily looking to buy a more expensive TV, its a reason Sony is so screwed in the space right now. Let me take that back, it'll be less successful then current stand alone appletv systems.

 

[Hammer24]

Nobody is voluntarily looking to buy a more expensive TV,

Well, Samsung f.i. is offering a webcam for their TV´s for 149 euros, for the sole purpose of enabling Skype.
I can´t think of a reason, why they wouldn´t put a kinect in their top of the line products, as you could do way more than just Skype with it. Maybe even headtracking glassless 3D at some point.

 

[jeff_rigby]

That's fine, but it won't succeed. Nobody is voluntarily looking to buy a more expensive TV, its a reason Sony is so screwed in the space right now. Let me take that back, it'll be less successful then current stand alone appletv systems.

There is a truth in what you say that should be examined, for that matter several like TTP have made comments that are accepted wisdom but may soon be irrelevant. Lets look for a second at hardware and software trends to see if we might find an out of the box understanding of what's coming.

Hardware trends= OLED (less expensive and sharper displays) + 4K resolution + sub 28nm die sizes

Software trends= Webkit + Gnome for Sony = Cross platform PS Suite or true cross platform which is driving Windows 8 and Microsoft. Linux is becoming ever more a standard and open source software like Libre Office which provides features similar to Microsoft office is using recognized cross platform (Cairo) rendering libraries.

Result is what? Ecosystems, cheaper and faster CE platforms, Cross platform software

We all read about this in 2008 but 2010 implementations are falling on their asses as they are clumsy and too slow but those were 45nm and not 4K resolution. Only in the last 30 days have we seen the promised ecosystem standards like DLNA with direct WiFi. Edit: Direct TV, Verizon & Comcast (for Xbox) have announced RVU or something like it shipping in December.

We should remember what we read in 2008 and understand that this is not an overnight process. This article gives some perspective on time:

Sony Announces Glasses-Free 3DTVs Coming by 2015

Many manufacturers believe that the ultimate goal of 3D technology with HDTVs is to create displays that do not require 3D glasses in order for viewers to see 3D content. According to Sony&#8217;s Gulf managing director, Osamu Miura, the company plans to release their first glasses-free 3DTV within the next 3-4 years. &#8220;Research is progressing on glasses-free 3D TVs that offer better picture quality, OLED TVs that provide brighter, crisper picture while consuming less power, and 4K technology consumer products which deliver four times the resolution of High Definition (HD),&#8221; he explained. &#8220;We already have the technology for glasses-free 3D TVs and a competitor has launched a product. The technology is being used in our 3D handycam, but it is a very small LCD, if you want to enjoy it on a big screen, it takes time. The current technology cannot satisfy the demand of people, so we are developing it further.&#8221;

So 5 years to 4K OLED in mass production with glasses free 3-D. But Samsung and LG are going to produce OLED 55 inch TVs in 2012 with Toshiba producing a glasses free 4K & 3-D TV with cell processor in 2012 also.

Going back to the reasoning that I find true that the market is driven by mass producing a bottom end featureless TV which sells for a reasonable price. Using a PS3 or PS4 game console to add-on features to the bottom end TV I find a reasonable solution till these features become a standard in bottom end TVs. What's needed, RVU or Allvid and a TV that can be controlled from a PS3 with CEC and it's coming.

What's missing in a PS3 that might be useful, more memory and a faster USB port to support 720P cameras and a casual control interface like Kinect. Guess what the Digitimes rumor implies.

The next message echos mine just substitute Xbox in place of PS3 or PS4.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Yeps, MS is going to make some big moves in 2012 that's for sure.

"Kinect, Play Angry Birds"

This is the Windows strategy to the letter. Instead of having to buy a Macintosh to get the graphical user interface you could just buy Windows or any device capable of running Windows. They'll push Kinect into TV's and such first and then release that smallish Xbox Loop thing box that you can hook up to a TV that doesn't have it build in. No need for iOS or iPhone or iPad to reach the Microsoft App Store. You can control everything with Kinect and tie everything together(phone, TV, tablet...) using some sort of W8 core(embedded on the ARM CPU).

Agreed. The Xbox Ten/Loop will just be a glorified set top box that augments a non Kinect enabled TV. It'll also probably include a cable card and integrate with existing cable packages (along with offering package deals that include subscriptions to certain game series like COD)

Windows 8 is Microsoft's future, not Xbox. Apple (and the smartphone/tablet revolution) is Microsoft's biggest competitor, not Sony or Nintendo.

 

[dr_rus]

Why so ? There are Microsoft OS on Sony computers, they use a Microsoft language for their Playstation Suite SDK, why wouldn't they accept Microsoft sensors on their TVs ?

Because they have similar technology since PS2 EyeToy? They don't pay for Windows and they don't pay for C# in PSS SDK.

 

[Alx]

Because they have similar technology since PS2 EyeToy?

They don't. Regular image processing is not reliable enough for common gesture control in uncontrolled environment. There is a reason why so many labs rushed to use kinect-like sensors for those applications as soon as they were available.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Everyone from Sony to Apple is rushing to create a future generation of televisions that is more an "integrated entertainment center" that leverages software used in other devices and Internet connections. There is a sea change that is going to happen in 2012.

IF you have been looking at TV prices this Black Friday, 60 inch Sharp LCD for $999 is unbelievable.

Watch the video here: http://www.fool.com/investing/gener...dead-heres-who-will-rule-this-100-billio.aspx

 

[Rolf NB]

Rumor => internet => repost of rumor.