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Kingdom Hearts 3 is now using Unreal Engine 4

Ridley327

Member
On this note I looked at Epic Games Japan's webpage and they do list Tecmo Koei so I'm wondering if that's for some random product or if they're actually using UE4.

Perhaps Team Ninja are going to be using it for a future game like Ninja Gaiden 4? I'm not sure how hands on they where with Ninja Gaiden Z, but there's at least some level of familiarity there already.

That, or T-K is prepping a Fatal Inertia sequel that is going to take forever to come out and be roundly ignored again.
 
So luminous was a big failure I take it?

To be honest, it really sounds like the development tools for the engine are far too under developed at this point and SE may have hyped their new engine to early in its infancy. They might still end up with a very nice engine after FFXIV is over and done with, but the fact that they had to consolidate their Luminous dev team into the FFXV dev team says a lot. The Luminous team are going to be there for tech support and to continue developing the engine along side the game. I guess they are writing off Luminous by tying it together to the development budget of FFXV.

On the plus side for KH3, the game won't be stuck in development hell due to issues with the game engine. The lead designer did say that serious work on the game would have been put on hold for over a year if they were still working with the Luminous engine.


How do they? Most developers have their own internal engines these days, especially the big publishers. EA uses Frostbite for everything and Ubisoft has several internal engines, for example. The number of high profile UE4 projects is minimal. Epic isn't getting a repeat of last gen.

Squeenix is only using UE4 because they're an abject failure of a company.

Most large publishing housing having their own proprietary engines isn't anything really new, and a lot of larger profile Unreal Engine game series are still using UE3 (especially ones with customized engines), as there are still a lot of games left slated for that engine. Publishers still want to wring what they can out of last gen consoles, since the user base is still there.

Maybe my original statement was a bit over the top, but I still don't see Epic starving for higher profile customers with UE4.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Perhaps Team Ninja are going to be using it for a future game like Ninja Gaiden 4? I'm not sure how hands on they where with Ninja Gaiden Z, but there's at least some level of familiarity there already.

That, or T-K is prepping a Fatal Inertia sequel that is going to take forever to come out and be roundly ignored again.
It's plausible it's there from an ancient project.
 
To be honest, it really sounds like the development tools for the engine are far too under developed at this point and SE may have hyped their new engine to early in its infancy. They might still end up with a very nice engine after FFXIV is over and done with, but the fact that they had to consolidate their Luminous dev team into the FFXIV dev team says a lot. The Luminous team are going to be there for tech support and to continue developing the engine along side the game. I guess they are writing off Luminous by tying it together to the development budget of FFXIV.

On the plus side for KH3, the game won't be stuck in development hell due to issues with the game engine. The lead designer did say that serious work on the game would have been put on hold for over a year if they were still working with the Luminous engine.




Most large publishing housing having their own proprietary engines isn't anything really new, and a lot of larger profile Unreal Engine game series are still using UE3 (especially ones with customized engines), as there are still a lot of games left slated for that engine. Publishers still want to wring what they can out of last gen consoles, since the user base is still there.

Maybe my original statement was a bit over the top, but I still don't see Epic starving for higher profile customers with UE4.
FFXV
 

Atruvius

Member
Can we not with this? These are all Unreal Engine 3 & 4 games:

http://i.imgur.com/gOBhC8C.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GNfeUiB.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/kFOqf5m.jpg[/MG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MrBkOyq.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9geqojv.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/I0knU1b.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9ARAnOG.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/gpdT45S.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zpdF4sn.jpg[/IG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PZz0L1u.jpg[/IG] Borderlands 2

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6fvY7Ih.jpg[/IM] Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/dlmiSNB.jpg[/IG] Mirrors Edge, 2008

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/63bGrt1.png[/IM] TERA Online

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/R22LnK7.png[/IM] Mighty No. 9

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/D53hIHj.jpg[/IG] Monday Night Combat

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/uMoV4ya.jpg[/IG] Yaiba: Ninja Gaiden Z

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/MN5Gh5j.jpg[/IG] Magna Carta II

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/HzdpqzT.jpg[/IM] Lost Oddysey

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vY7wUpd.jpg[/IM] Enslaved: Odyssey to the West

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/JTwC1IS.jpg[/IM] Dungeon Defenders

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/PD5kj6H.jpg[/IM] Crimson Dragon

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/eqHf6Pw.jpg[/IM] Alice: Madness Returns

KH3 should and likely will look fantastic.[/QUOTE]
Eh, many of those games have that UE3 look, especially Bioshock Infinite. But UE4 isn't UE3 so I don't really mind that KH3 uses it.
 

Finalow

Member
UE4 will be better than any of the SE engines, that's for sure.

lolSE, Loluminous etc, maybe now they're going to stop making engines.

we will probably wait even more for the game to come out at this point, it's time for another spin-off or shitty card game, Nomura? Come on I know you want to do it. just one more before the ending.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Eh, many of those games have that UE3 look, especially Bioshock Infinite. But UE4 isn't UE3 so I don't really mind that KH3 uses it.

I'd say the strong art direction of SE would have masked any particular look the engine imparted. Plus I see SE tweaking the middleware to fit their needs which may have mitigated the similar look. I still don't see it though.
 
UE4 will be better than any of the SE engines, that's for sure.

lolSE, Loluminous etc, maybe now they're going to stop making engines.

we will probably wait even more for the game to come out at this point, it's time for another spin-off or shitty card game, Nomura? Come on I know you want to do it. just one more before the ending.
Ending? lmao
 

MilesTeg

Banned
UE4 will be better than any of the SE engines, that's for sure.

lolSE, Loluminous etc, maybe now they're going to stop making engines.

we will probably wait even more for the game to come out at this point, it's time for another spin-off or shitty card game, Nomura? Come on I know you want to do it. just one more before the ending.

Time for another HD remake. Probably the 3DS KH game. SE is all about the stop gap these days.
 

Squire

Banned
Do people really think that this is good news?

Whatever problems Luminous might have posed for them, I feel like their engineers are familiar enough with their own code to still offer something solid. We haven't really seen buggy messes from Crystal Tools.

The only time we've seen engine related issues from what I recall was with The Last Remnant. That was running on UE3.

For anyone interested in actually playing this game in the next three years, yes, this is categorically good news.

There's no pint in continuously bringing up Last Remnant. That game released as Epic was fixing their JP support issue by opening a studio there and it was years ago.

So, I don't see any point in making that comparison. They've even already said they're getting support from Epic to fix the problems they already had.
 

wmlk

Member
For anyone interested in actually playing this game in the next three years, yes, this is categorically good news.

There's no pint in continuously bringing up Last Remnant. That game released as Epic was fixing their JP support issue by opening a studio there and it was years ago.

So, I don't see any point in making that comparison. They've even already said they're getting support from Epic to fix the problems they already had.
SE has used their own stuff since the very beginning. This is new.

I guess I'm just skeptical in how they'll make this work.
 

sn00zer

Member
I really really hope the release a shader test press release or research paper...will be great to see a side by side of Sora in all the different Disney shader styles
 

Squire

Banned
SE has used their own stuff since the very beginning. This is new.

I guess I'm just skeptical in how they'll make this work.

I understand your skepticism, but I don't see much cause to worry. UE4 is by all accounts a great set of tools and if they say they're getting the help they need, I believe them - Epic JP can't be that busy, right?

It would've great if they got Luminous done since that's gotta be millions down the tube, but at some point they had to ask themselves if they want to get this game done and they had to make a choice. I think they made a good one.
 

Paracelsus

Member
If they don't have the same issues as TLR it's gonna be very, very good and I hope it becomes the norm for every game of theirs.

Seriously, once FFXIII releases on Steam go buy TLR as well (if you haven't thanks to a 3$ sale already) and compare the two, you'll be impressed by how well it stacks up. I'd say TLR is even better because it's not a corridor.
 

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Eh, many of those games have that UE3 look, especially Bioshock Infinite. But UE4 isn't UE3 so I don't really mind that KH3 uses it.
You're telling me that 17 of the 22 titles I've posted effectively look the same? Because 17 of the titles I've posted run on UE3.

This is also the first I've ever heard someone say Bioshock Infinite has "that UE3 look." I mean if you've played the game you simply know what you've said isn't true.
 

av2k

Member
Wow, this is pretty big. Wonder if many other Japanese development studios are going to follow suit. I know Tekken 7 was the first to be announced to use Unreal Engine 4 that I know of.
 
From UE4 facebook page: "What do you get when a group of developers who've worked on BioShock, Halo, Guitar Hero and Rock Band come together and build something beautiful with Unreal Engine 4?

Just take a moment and watch this Kickstarter video. "

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/molassesflood/the-flame-in-the-flood

9cb31834253bc992663a5bea595f59bb_large.gif
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
SE has used their own stuff since the very beginning. This is new.

I guess I'm just skeptical in how they'll make this work.

SE has proven they don't know how to use their own shit. It has nothing to do with your notions, UE4 is a better engine than any engine SE has used in the past. There should be no issues especially with them getting support from Epic Japan
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
SE has proven they don't know how to use their own shit. It has nothing to do with your notions, UE4 is a better engine than any engine SE has used in the past. There should be no issues especially with them getting support from Epic Japan
But they already said they're having issues
 

zlatko

Banned
I hope UE4 doesn't suffer like UE3 did with say Gears of War with the insane amount of pop in it holds...

Best example is a match for Gears MP right at the start has several seconds of vasoline before everything comes into play.
 

wmlk

Member
It's bad news nonetheless. An in-house engine tooled for SE and their development teams would have been great. The problem is you can't really do much with Luminous since it's in some sort of crappy state.

Sad to see when other development houses build their own engine, and SE has to move away from it because it actually created more problems instead of solving them. Their games look cutting edge, but it's mindblowing how bad they must be behind the scenes.
 

TunaUppercut

Neo Member
Wow. just wow. I wonder how much money SE spent on building the luminous engine and various tools? It would be less expensive if they stopped building their own tools like luminous and crystal and started using other engines.
 

Neff

Member
I don't see this as a typical Square mental flip-flop, I see it as them sensibly throwing in the towel attempting to make their own engines work at enormous expense and time by using one created by people whose jobs it is to make competitive, flexible, affordable game engines. I think Square's current engineering talent is exemplary, as evidenced by Agni's Philosophy and FFXV, but there's a lethargy within the company when it comes to attempting to do this kind of thing themselves, and using someone else's tested, fully developer-documented engine should help with that.
 
Do you think this will affect the Kingdom Shader concept that Nomura was talking about during the reveal? From my understanding, it would provide a different graphical feel to each world you explored. I'm not knowledgeable about how UE4's architecture, but it it robust enough to handle vastly different graphical styles in the same game? We know it can apply shaders and filters, but the vision of what they were going for sounded more ambitious than that.

In my opinion, KH3 on UE4 makes this more possible than before.
 
It's kind of sad that Square Enix spent all that effort making Luminous and then not use it very much. I wish they would license it to other developers or something.

But I think it's neat that they're using Unreal. That means that it might come to Steam.
It sounds like Unreal Engine 4 is really nice, too. Tera was made in Unreal Engine 3, and I'm a big fan of Tera. Lots of Unreal games look really pretty.

I hope this means more games from Square Enix, too. Maybe if they get really good at it, they'll be able to make more games.
 

Atruvius

Member
You're telling me that 17 of the 22 titles I've posted effectively look the same? Because 17 of the titles I've posted run on UE3.
.
I didn't check all the games that were on there, but I have played and seen gameplay of a few them and they have UE3 look, not all the time but sometimes. It's usually the bloom and sheen that gives it away

This is also the first I've ever heard someone say Bioshock Infinite has "that UE3 look." I mean if you've played the game you simply know what you've said isn't true.

Those areas around the Ghost Lady boss have a terrible UE3 look. I remember thinking "Yep, this is done on UE3".
 

VeeP

Member
Do you think this will affect the Kingdom Shader concept that Nomura was talking about during the reveal? From my understanding, it would provide a different graphical feel to each world you explored. I'm not knowledgeable about how UE4's architecture, but it it robust enough to handle vastly different graphical styles in the same game? We know it can apply shaders and filters, but the vision of what they were going for sounded more ambitious than that.

After all the development troubles with FF15, we should be glad it's using UE4.

I didn't check all the games that were on there, but I have played and seen gameplay of a few them and they have UE3 look, not all the time but sometimes. It's usually the bloom and sheen that gives it away



Those areas around the Ghost Lady boss have a terrible UE3 look. I remember thinking "Yep, this is done on UE3".


IG


MG


IG


Dat classic unreal engine look, amiright?

Either way, I'm pretty sure UE4 has Global Illumination and other lighting effects, chances are you won't see overuse of bloom, etc.
 

Atruvius

Member
IG


MG


IG


Dat classic unreal engine look, amiright?

Either way, I'm pretty sure UE4 has Global Illumination and other lighting effects, chances are you won't see overuse of bloom, etc.

Those are mostly exceptions it's usually the more realistic looking games that have the look. Though I'm sure there is some bias in me knowing when game is done in UE3 and then thinking that it looks like an UE3 game. I thought that Dishonoured was done with id Tech 5 but that was another UE3 game.
 

Instro

Member
Not shocking. As long as Epic is providing good Japanese support and documentation this can only be a good move for the foreseeable future.
 

RaijinFY

Member
Personally, i don't necessarily see that as abandoning Luminous. Hell, people assume Luminous was the de-facto engine for KHIII but was it stated clearly in last year E3 trailer?

Also, it's pretty common for these big publishers to use several engines.
 

Niosai

Member
I feel as if maybe they wouldn't want to use Luminous for anything but a single game right now as to avoid the debacle with the XIII engine.

If I recall correctly, wasn't the reason for the massive XIII delay/"unfinished product" because they were trying to make it a do-all engine a la UE3? If so, I'd imagine that focusing on one game with the engine is probably their best choice right now.
 
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