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[Ran rp]

no matter what tabata says about Luna people are still going to judge the character on what's actually being shown, and so far tabata or whoever's been directing the new trailers/cutscenes has done a pretty poor job of getting across that "strength" he keeps touting. nomura knew how to sell his characters, and that's part of the reason why people are so attached to Stella.

 

[chozen]

Yup even the Uncovered trailer while a step up to past Tabata directed trailers was still not as good as the E3 2013. I just feel the trailers have been missing an artistic vision compared to the Nomura trailers.

Thank you.

no matter what tabata says about Luna people are still going to judge the character on what's actually being shown, and so far tabata or whoever's been directing the new trailers/cutscenes has done a pretty poor job of getting across that "strength" he keeps touting. nomura knew how to sell his characters, and that's part of the reason why people are so attached to Stella.

Right, and it isn't like Nomura was ever "all talk" either we have seen him execute strong female characters in Kingdom Hearts for example with the like of Aqua/Xion.

Aqua can actually fight, stands up to Terra, resists the darkness, and legit survives in the realm of darkness for years. She is a strong female character, and I see that in Stella.

 

[Ishida]

Like I said, I don't think I know more than Tabata or the devs at square.

But him defending Luna replacing Stella was straight PR and everything we have actually seen doesn't come off as "strong". In fact the Dawn trailer was his poor way of catering to Versus fans by showing us something "dark". He just doesn't quite get it.

If square were brave, they would tell us the whole thing sometime. Otherwise, why hide it?

She doesn't come off as strong? We are talking about a woman who is debating and standing off in front of freakin' Leviathan? That's A LOT more than we ever saw Stella doing.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

no matter what tabata says about Luna people are still going to judge the character on what's actually being shown, and so far tabata or whoever's been directing the new trailers/cutscenes has done a pretty poor job of getting across that "strength" he keeps touting. nomura knew how to sell his characters, and that's part of the reason why people are so attached to Stella.

Exactly. The counterpoints have all been talk with little evidence. Tabata says things but hasn't really shown it.

She doesn't come off as strong? We are talking about a woman who is debating and standing off in front of freakin' Leviathan? That's A LOT more than we ever saw Stella doing.

Standing against the main character is far more notable from a narrative point of view.

 

[Koozek]

Yup even the Uncovered trailer while a step up to past Tabata directed trailers was still not as good as the E3 2013. I just feel the trailers have been missing an artistic vision compared to the Nomura trailers.

Nomura only had to work with scenes from the Insomnia invasion and dramatic CGI scenes, which are easier to make a darker trailer with. He never showed the rest of the game with the more light-hearted aspects he always talked about in interviews between 2006 and 2011, like camping and road-tripping, and I'm sure if he had shown those in trailers the whole mood would've changed, too. I'd rather have an actual game than just cool-looking, moody trailers.

Ah man, what am I doing here, anyway. Talk about Stella and Nomura in 2016, brehs.

 

[Ishida]

Standing against the main character is far more notable from a narrative point of view.

I disagree. Standing in front of a god and raising her staff against it when the god lounges towards her is a lot more notable.

Nomura only had to work with scenes from the Insomnia invasion and dramatic CGI scenes, which are easier to make a darker trailer with. He never showed the rest of the game with the more light-hearted aspects he always talked about in interviews between 2006 and 2011, like camping and road-tripping, and I'm sure if he had shown those in trailers the whole mood would've changed, too. I'd rather have an actual game than just cool-looking, moody trailers.

Ah man, what am I doing here, anyway. Talk about Stella and Nomura in 2016, brehs.

lol, exactly. People will never let go off their fan fictions. No matter if the game's plot ends up being great, it will never be as great as their imaginary Versus plot.

 

[artsi]

Nomura's trailers were good, but I'm still saying that directing a visually great CGI trailer based on a cool premise is different from creating a full, coherent game / story that stands from start to finish.

Luna could be a strongman or that damsel in distress for all I care, as long as the game is good and complete. Tabata saw that the character needs to be changed for that to be possible and it's fine.

I disagree. Standing in front of a god and raising her staff against it when the god lounges towards her is a lot more notable.

Seconded.

 

[Ishida]

Nomura's trailers were good, but I'm still saying that directing a visually great CGI trailer based on a cool premise is different from creating a full, coherent game / story that stands from start to finish.

Luna could be a strongman or that damsel in distress for all I care, as long as the game is good and complete. Tabata saw that the character needs to be changed for that to be possible and it's fine..

Pretty much this. Tabata is actually pulling off the hard part of the development and marketing pretty well. A lot of Versus' trailers looked cool for the sake of looking cool, but they barely told us any details.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Lets see:

One just shows Luna's incredible strength.
The other not only shows Stella's strength but places her as the fated rival, at least in this situation.

Concerning the narrative, the second is far more interesting to explore.

 

[Kagari]

Pretty much this. Tabata is actually pulling off the hard part of the development and marketing pretty well. A lot of Versus' trailers looked cool for the sake of looking cool, but they barely told us any details.

Most of them actually focused on the opening of the game, which has since been re-purposed into this movie.

 

[LowParry]

Lets see:

One just shows Luna's incredible strength.
The other not only shows Stella's strength but places her as the fated rival, at least in this situation.

Concerning the narrative, the second is far more interesting to explore.

Pfff. They probably wouldn't of had a big fight anyway. Weapons would drop. Tears flow. Hug it out.

 

[Ishida]

Lets see:

One just shows Luna's incredible strength.
The other not only shows Stella's strength but places her as the fated rival, at least in this situation.

Concerning the narrative, the second is far more interesting to explore.

A woman who can commune with gods and is willing to stand against them/state a case against them is far more interesting than the "fated rival" angle.

 

[Kagari]

A woman who can commune with gods and is willing to stand against them/state a case against them is far more interesting than the "fated rival" angle.

It would be if we didn't already have a similar story in FFX.

 

[AgentLampshade]

Just wish Luna still had a rapier. Rapiers are cool.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

A woman who can commune with gods and is willing to stand against them/state a case against them is far more interesting than the "fated rival" angle.

Stella also had a special connection with the gods and shared Nocits' ability to see the light.

 

[Ishida]

Stella also had a special connection with the gods and shared Nocits' ability to see the light.

Can you quote any info on the bolded?

 

[Kagari]

Can you quote any info on the bolded?

She says it herself in one of the trailers, that she can see the light too. The light referring to the souls passing over to the gate of Etro.

 

[chozen]

Nomura only had to work with scenes from the Insomnia invasion and dramatic CGI scenes

Bull, go rewatch the 2008 trailer, it shows the car driving moments and the lighthearted moments with Noctis and friends

I disagree. Standing in front of a god and raising her staff against it when the god lounges towards her is a lot more notable.

Pfff. They probably wouldn't of had a big fight anyway. Weapons would drop. Tears flow. Hug it out.

Leviathan is a summon not a God, and how do you know Gentiana doesn't just step in and protect Luna from getting smacked. Anyways Noctis is most likely going to slay all summons on the regular and use them for himself in the end.

It would be if we didn't already have a similar story in FFX.

EXACTLY. I don't remember a Male/Female Love/Rivalry, but I do remember Yuna.

 

[Ishida]

She says it herself in one of the trailers, that she can see the light too. The light referring to the souls passing over to the gate of Etro.

No no. I meant the bolded. She had a special connection to the gods just like Luna? That's not true.

Leviathan is a summon not a God, and how do you know Gentiana doesn't just step in and protect Luna from getting smacked. Anyways Noctis is most likely going to slay all summons on the regular and use them for himself in the end..

Leviathan is one of the gods in this game. It is been stated that they cannot be controlled. They do as they please. And why do you assume Gentiana would jump in to save Luna? So, some other character would jump in to save Stella from being smacked by Noctis also?

 

[LowParry]

Leviathan is a summon not a God, and how do you know Gentiana doesn't just step in and protect Luna from getting smacked. Anyways Noctis is most likely going to slay all summons on the regular and use them for himself in the end.

I was referring more to this. Either way it's a silly argument at this point. We're never going to know how Stella would be played out.

 

[Ishida]

I was referring more to this. Either way it's a silly argument at this point. We're never going to know how Stella would be played out.

Exactly. We'll just never know. Time to let go.

 

[chozen]

Leviathan is one of the gods in this game. It is been stated that they cannot be controlled. They do as they please. And why do you assume Gentiana would jump in to save Luna? So, some other character would jump in to save Stella from being smacked by Noctis also?

Lol Leviathan is just a summon, yes they are intelligent but they aren't Gods.
The actual Gods of Eos are probably the beings in the Dawn trailer.
I also have a hunch that Etro was renamed to Eos the Goddess of Dawn.
But Eos plays same role in the story, which is why the amano art is never replaced from the logo or the movie.
Also, last I remember Stella didn't have a bodyguard.

 

[Ishida]

Lol Leviathan is just a summon, yes they are intelligent but they aren't Gods.
The actual Gods of Eos are probably the beings in the Dawn trailer.
I also have a hunch that Etro was renamed to Eos the Goddess of Dawn.
Also, last I remember Stella didn't have a bodyguard.

According to who, exactly?

Luna, has the ability to speak to the gods. She speaks to the god Leviathan and seems to be defying whatever Leviathan is plotting to do.

 

[chozen]

According to who, exactly?
Luna, has the ability to speak to the gods. She speaks to the god Leviathan and seems to be defying whatever Leviathan is plotting to do.

"It appears Leviathan is a a high ranking Archaean."
What is an Archaean you might ask? http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Archaean
Archaeans also known as Astrals, are the summons of Final Fantasy XV.
Titan is described as an "Archaean"
Archean = Summon

Can you not be this dumb?

 

[Ishida]

"It appears Leviathan is a a high ranking Archaean."
What is an Archaean you might ask? http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Archaean
Archaeans also known as Astrals, are the summons of Final Fantasy XV.
Titan is described as an "Archaean"
Archean = Summon

Can you not be this dumb?

Wow... Huh. Was that really necessary?

Anyways.

Tabata: "The idea of recruiting or obtaining them is not the best way to look at them (laughs). You get them to help you. You ask them to let them agree to help you. In the world of Final Fantasy there is one word given to them and that is “Guardians.” They are protective deities. So the relationship that Noctis has with them is that he besieges them to request them to lend him their power."


But we are going in circles. We will just have to wait until September 30th and see.

Just wanted to tell you that your imaginary storyline of Versus XIII does not exist, and quite possibly never existed.

 

[Andromeda]

Standing against the main character is far more notable from a narrative point of view.

How so when we see that same Leviathan destroying an entire city and knocking around Noctis?

 

[Kagari]

It existed, not sure why you and some others keep saying that. It's up to SE now if we ever hear of what the original plans were past the years of what was shown in trailers/said in interviews.

 

[Ishida]

It existed, not sure why you and some others keep saying that. It's up to SE now if we ever hear of what the original plans were past the years of what was shown in trailers/said in interviews.

No. The plot of Versus XIII existed. To what extent? Who knows. I said his imaginary plot where Stella was all kinds of badass probably didn't.

 

[chozen]

Wow... Huh. Was that really necessary?

Anyways.

Tabata: "The idea of recruiting or obtaining them is not the best way to look at them (laughs). You get them to help you. You ask them to let them agree to help you. In the world of Final Fantasy there is one word given to them and that is “Guardians.” They are protective deities. So the relationship that Noctis has with them is that he besieges them to request them to lend him their power."


But we are going in circles. We will just have to wait until September 30th and see.

Just wanted to tell you that your imaginary storyline of Versus XIII does not exist, and quite possibly never existed.

No, my bad it wasn't necessary I would just expect someone who claims they are informed/following since day one to know these things by now.
Also Carbuncle is an Archean. Just so you would know what the category falls under.

The official stance on the wiki and from what has been said about Leviathan
"Leviathan is said to be elegant, intelligent, and "very close to God."

The only ACTUAL God I can think of that Luna is talking to is Eos, to slow down the process of the longer nights than days.
She wants to keep the sun up for as long she can before it basically vanishes for good, for who knows what reason.

It is very easy to piece these things together...

 

[Andromeda]

It existed, not sure why you and some others keep saying that. It's up to SE now if we ever hear of what the original plans were past the years of what was shown in trailers/said in interviews.

To us Stella is only about 6 minutes worth of footage and a few interviews telling us about her, and that's all she'll ever be.

 

[Kagari]

No. The plot of Versus XIII existed. To what extent? Who knows. I said his imaginary plot where Stella was all kinds of badass probably didn't.

I was speaking about the game as a whole.

 

[Plywood]

Wow I'm sorry for the current conversation that cropped, but I'm just gonna reiterate my point on the designs since it seems to have been completely glazed over.

In-game Luna APPEARS younger than Noctis where as Noctis could be 21-25, Luna appears to be anywhere from 16-18.

That's why I feel Stella and movie Luna look more closer/on the nose to his age.

edit: Whoops, it appears I'm cross-posting between two threads.

 

[Pancake Mix]

In-game Luna APPEARS younger than Noctis where as Noctis could be 21-25, Luna appears to be anywhere from 16-18.

That's why I feel Stella and movie Luna look more closer/on the nose to his age.

Movie Luna looks like she's in her late 20's to me. In-game Luna looks closer to Noctis imo.

 

[Andromeda]

Wow I'm sorry for the current conversation that cropped, but I'm just gonna reiterate my point on the designs since it seems to have been completely glazed over.

In-game Luna APPEARS younger than Noctis where as Noctis could be 21-25, Luna appears to be anywhere from 16-18.

That's why I feel Stella and movie Luna look more closer/on the nose to his age.

edit: Whoops, it appears I'm cross-posting between two threads.

Luna seems slightly older than Noctis to me if anything, there was the flashback scene where she is much bigger than him too.

 

[Ishida]

No, my bad it wasn't necessary I would just expect someone who claims they are informed/following since day one to know these things by now.
Also Carbuncle is an Archean. Just so you would know what the category falls under.

The official stance on the wiki and from what has been said about Leviathan
"Leviathan is said to be elegant, intelligent, and "very close to God."

The only ACTUAL God I can think of that Luna is talking to is Eos, to slow down the process of the longer nights than days.
She wants to keep the sun up for as long she can before it basically vanishes for good, for who knows what reason.

It is very easy to piece these things together...

No problem. I think we are going in circles here.

As I said, we will need to wait until the game is released to judge Luna apparently. I'm just sad that even if the game features a scene with Luna punching Noctis' teeth in, and then proceeding to kick Titan in his non-existent balls, she will still never live up to "but-look-how-determined-she-looks Stella".

 

[BrettHeazy]

Where the hell is the second episode of the anime!?

 

[.JayZii]

Where the hell is the second episode of the anime!?

I had forgotten about that. Maybe around E3?

 

[Andromeda]

Where the hell is the second episode of the anime!?

2nd of June, it's going to be about Prompto. Young Noctis and Luna will show up in it too.

 

[Byvar]

The main reason why I'm more attached to Stella's character than Luna's is because of this one scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_x5k9h1Hg
Her characterization was just so much better in that one scene than anything we've seen from Luna so far. Stella's story may have been rewritten numerous times (first that scene was were they first met, then they were childhood friends, and then she became Luna), but that shouldn't have been a reason for her characterization (nor her design, for that matter) to get downgraded this much. Of course we haven't seen any conversations between Luna and Noctis (in present day at least) yet, so it might turn out very similar. But that just means the marketing team and Tabata haven't properly been highlighting why getting rid of Stella was a good thing yet.

I feel like the reason why her story was scrapped was because it was too closely tied to "the light of expiring souls" and the powers received from them. Note that this light was a huge theme in Versus, but did not occur once in any FFXV trailer (except the first, which also still had Stella and was still Versus in anything but name). You could also actually see this light when Noctis defeated an enemy in Versus (look closely at 3:53 and beyond in this trailer), but not in FFXV. I know Noctis still had his near-death experience, but I think the light is scrapped.
This is pure speculation, but in the scene were Stella and Noctis were drawing their weapons against each other, there were those huge magic signs behind them, and I think those were results of the powers received from seeing the light of expiring souls. You'd think that if those powers were still in the game, we would have heard about it by now, since they'd be a pretty huge gameplay element. But we've only heard about ring magic and the "normal" type of magic. We haven't seen ring magic yet, but I don't think that's it.
So to me it sounds like Tabata or his team decided to earn some goodwill by throwing Fabula Nova Crystallis out, and with it the light of expiring souls. Then they saw Stella's story didn't make sense anymore and threw that out as well. I don't know, maybe this is pretty harsh but if it didn't go down like that then they just should have shown that some of these concepts remained in the game.

On a side note, that scene also shows visual direction and dialogue far more powerful than anything we've seen from FFXV. The marketing team should really just show something of this quality in their trailers - if there is anything left after Nomura's departure.

 

[Talax]

Luna punching Noctis' teeth in, and then proceeding to kick Titan in his non-existent balls

My waifu won't do that!!!!


Anyway, this conversation is too far removed. We're not even talking about the movie Luna anymore. Crowe is the best character design in the movie.

Spoiler

Stella is better

 

[the_sun_king]

...Are we really back on this redundant Stella vs. Luna topic again? It's done. Stella doesn't exist and never will. Time to move on.

 

[Ydelnae]

So to me it sounds like Tabata or his team decided to earn some goodwill by throwing Fabula Nova Crystallis out, and with it the light of expiring souls. Then they saw Stella's story didn't make sense anymore and threw that out as well. I don't know, maybe this is pretty harsh but if it didn't go down like that then they just should have shown that some of these concepts remained in the game.

Not only she would have been too influenced by FNC mythos, but Stella's character could have gotten in the way of making XV a single entry and not multiple games like Nomura wanted. "Yeah, but they could have changed the character instead of just scrapping her". Well, when her backstory, her interaction with the story, her skills and even her name was closely tied to what was holding the game back, you would have gotten a new character altoghether, which is what happened with Luna.

 

[DeSolos]

No. The plot of Versus XIII existed. To what extent? Who knows. I said his imaginary plot where Stella was all kinds of badass probably didn't.

At some point an entire scenario was completed for Versus XIII. Which I would take to mean a general outline of all the events that would occur.http://gematsu.com/2010/06/final-fantasy-versus-xiii-scenario-complete-confirms-dengeki


Here is what was said about the transition from Versus XIII's scenario to the proper FFXV script.

HT: So we got the original story for XV from Mr. Nojima then fleshed out the story using his as a base.

HT: Ms. Itamuro is the script writer. Like we said, Mr. Nojima did the original story. And Ms. Itamuro takes that and works out the details of how it will play out in the game.

AO:So she's the one who turns it into a script?

HT:That's Right. She takes the lead on that.

 

[Ray Down]

...Are we really back on this redundant Stella vs. Luna topic again? It's done. Stella doesn't exist and never will. Time to move on.

thisisneogaf.gif

 

[Andromeda]

The main reason why I'm more attached to Stella's character than Luna's is because of this one scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n_x5k9h1Hg
Her characterization was just so much better in that one scene than anything we've seen from Luna so far. Stella's story may have been rewritten numerous times (first that scene was were they first met, then they were childhood friends, and then she became Luna), but that shouldn't have been a reason for her characterization (nor her design, for that matter) to get downgraded this much. Of course we haven't seen any conversations between Luna and Noctis (in present day at least) yet, so it might turn out very similar. But that just means the marketing team and Tabata haven't properly been highlighting why getting rid of Stella was a good thing yet.

I feel like the reason why her story was scrapped was because it was too closely tied to "the light of expiring souls" and the powers received from them. Note that this light was a huge theme in Versus, but did not occur once in any FFXV trailer (except the first, which also still had Stella and was still Versus in anything but name). You could also actually see this light when Noctis defeated an enemy in Versus (look closely at 3:53 and beyond in this trailer), but not in FFXV. I know Noctis still had his near-death experience, but I think the light is scrapped.
This is pure speculation, but in the scene were Stella and Noctis were drawing their weapons against each other, there were those huge magic signs behind them, and I think those were results of the powers received from seeing the light of expiring souls. You'd think that if those powers were still in the game, we would have heard about it by now, since they'd be a pretty huge gameplay element. But we've only heard about ring magic and the "normal" type of magic. We haven't seen ring magic yet, but I don't think that's it.
So to me it sounds like Tabata or his team decided to earn some goodwill by throwing Fabula Nova Crystallis out, and with it the light of expiring souls. Then they saw Stella's story didn't make sense anymore and threw that out as well. I don't know, maybe this is pretty harsh but if it didn't go down like that then they just should have shown that some of these concepts remained in the game.

On a side note, that scene also shows visual direction and dialogue far more powerful than anything we've seen from FFXV. The marketing team should really just show something of this quality in their trailers - if there is anything left after Nomura's departure.

Noctis and Luna still have the near death experience, and Noctis gets his astral powers from it. That is the summoning powers. Astrals in XV are protective deities and summons so the power Noctis gets from his near death experience is still tied to deities. Astral powers are different from both his weapon magic and ring magic.

About that scene I don't see what makes Stella special? All she did was ask Noctis if he had powers, looked sad while clutching her hands and then they said goodbye.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Are people really questioning Stella's connection with gods? Come on. We've known that from the beginning.

I'm interested to see the new story but at this moment can't continue feel disappointed at the seeming reduction of Stella's character/role.

 

[Plywood]

Movie Luna looks like she's in her late 20's to me. In-game Luna looks closer to Noctis imo.

Luna seems slightly older than Noctis to me if anything, there was the flashback scene where she is much bigger than him too.

I just don't see it and in regards to your flashback, yes girls are bigger than boys when growing up that's just biology.

 

[rayman1900]

I can't believe that you guys still debating Stella vs Luna again in a Kingsglaive related thread -_-

 

[the_sun_king]

On a side note, that scene also shows visual direction and dialogue far more powerful than anything we've seen from FFXV. The marketing team should really just show something of this quality in their trailers - if there is anything left after Nomura's departure.

LOL okay. That scene was nothing more than an exposition dump for the lore/background of the characters and the universe. I don't know where you're seeing how it's "far mor powerful than anything we've seen from FFXV" visually and dialogue-wise. Note: that's also a fandub of a scene that never got an official English translation.

 

[Ray Down]

I can't believe that you guys still debating Stella vs Luna again in a Kingsglaive related thread -_-

It's kind of going on in the other Kingsglaive thread to.