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Kojima was too expensive apparently
- Thread starter Jindrax
- Start date
SnowFlakeCake
Member
His games aren't too my liking at all but I can appreciate him wanting the games he makes to be absolutely perfect. That said, it's ridiculous people here are saying fuck Konami and all that rubbish, they are in a business to make money. To have a composer come in, record countless songs and not use a single one is incredibly wasteful. I doubt the composer would have been cheap, like flushing money down the toilet.
High production values and a directors vision are lovely and all, but Konami is not the biggest tradition gaming publisher out there and they make most of their money outside consoles. There will probably be some publisher out there willing to fund his next project, if not his fans seem rabid enough that a $50 million kickstarter for his next project would be funded in a day.
High production values and a directors vision are lovely and all, but Konami is not the biggest tradition gaming publisher out there and they make most of their money outside consoles. There will probably be some publisher out there willing to fund his next project, if not his fans seem rabid enough that a $50 million kickstarter for his next project would be funded in a day.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Bi-yearly MGS!
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Thought it was a reference to Heavens Gate, helmed by another perfectionist.
Aaronrules380
Member
We don't know. And it's possible that was true at first, but as he got more and more successful he got more freedom and emboldened by that his practical ability to make games on a reasonable budget declined. Perhaps it was a recent trend because of this, and if so they might have tried to get him onto a different deal, which he refused because he liked the freedom he had gained.
Ken was one of the founders of Irrational and shipped System Shock 2, Freedom Force, Tribes: Vengeance, Freedom Force vs the 3rd Reich, SWAT 4 + expansion pack, BioShock, and BioShock Infinite. They also did a couple of years of the XCOM FPS's development before handing it off to work on Infinite instead.
Before that he worked at Looking Glass.
crazyrabbits
Banned
That happens all the time, for film and games alike. It's a drop in the larger scale of things. I get where she's coming from (as a composer, she would want that work to be heard), but I'm willing to bet the licensing costs for all the 80's songs are where more money was spent.
A (more or less) period-authentic, auteur-driven, AAA-project helmed by a guy who laughs when Konami says "delay this" was never going to be the norm.
It's just as simple as Konami's current direction being much more intolerant of that kind of development schedule than they were from 2005-2008. They didn't have the success of formerly ancillary ventures like gambling machines and fitness programs like they do now.
Beren the Empty-Handed
Member
I thought it was obvious that they fought over spending... Most of the time when a falling out like this happens, it's over money.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Kojima was confused, thinking he was making art and not product, and got fired for it. Sounds about right.
Yeah, it's even more strange when his name pops up before and after every mission.
I imagine that it was not enough to keep him there.
Callibretto
Member
I really want to know how big is Phantom Pain budget now. and how much do they cover with Ground Zeroes.
plasmawave
Banned
The Phantom Corner.
Maybe rockstar?
This reminds me of that "one-hit wonders" topic from a few weeks back lol
slavesnyder
Member
If it sells 20% less but also costs only 60% of MGSV they might congratulate each other.
Terrible thread title, should have went with the Destructoid one:
Metal Gear Solid 1-3's composer might know why Kojima and Konami have split up
This quote alone is why i love Kojima so goddamn much.
Metal Gear Solid 1-3's composer might know why Kojima and Konami have split up
This quote alone is why i love Kojima so goddamn much.
Seriously this.
If the profit margin always exceeds the budget like his other games then leave his name and studio on the game for this last game. Afterward, they can announce that Kojima is no longer with the company when his contact is up due to disagreement between salary and budget cost.
But instead, they said fuck you Kojima with no explanation.
Do we know how much money they are actually making from each game?
Ye they sell well but if you are extremely over budge them profits can be slim.
Jimmyfenix
Member
In one of the KindaFunnyGames videos about kojima/konami Greg miller said that the Konami PR told him that stuff might be removed from the final game.
angelic
Banned
where to even start with this.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Terrible thread title, should have went with the Destructoid one:
Metal Gear Solid 1-3's composer might know why Kojima and Konami have split up
This quote alone is why i love Kojima so goddamn much.
No wonder Kojima likes Mad Max: Fury Road so much.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Kojima is a perfectionist? Are we saying the 2nd half of MGS4 was "as planned"?
I just can't get over how "crazy" this series got from MG to MGS to MGS4 to MGSPW.
How did this series go from bad ass military guy to girls in their panties in a mech?
Don't get me wrong I've more or less enjoyed every MG games but I'll never get the love of Kojima. Dude just kept taking it "too far" IMO.
I think Silent Hills is where he could have really shined. He could let the crazy out and it really makes sense.
I just can't get over how "crazy" this series got from MG to MGS to MGS4 to MGSPW.
How did this series go from bad ass military guy to girls in their panties in a mech?
Don't get me wrong I've more or less enjoyed every MG games but I'll never get the love of Kojima. Dude just kept taking it "too far" IMO.
I think Silent Hills is where he could have really shined. He could let the crazy out and it really makes sense.
Terrible thread title, should have went with the Destructoid one:
Metal Gear Solid 1-3's composer might know why Kojima and Konami have split up
This quote alone is why i love Kojima so goddamn much.
ssssssh S4nic, no tears now
-Pyromaniac-
Member
All stars make all star money. That's how you play the game.
Fuck.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
Seems possible.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Considering Metal Gear has its own heading on their financials, I think it does OK.
IAmRandom31
Banned
Doesn't make sense. Why freak out to such an extent if Kojima just got too expensive and there was a falling out?
It almost seemed personal between Kojima / Konami with the way Konami was out to erase Kojima from their company and any scrap of his name being erased from the files. Was very odd.
It almost seemed personal between Kojima / Konami with the way Konami was out to erase Kojima from their company and any scrap of his name being erased from the files. Was very odd.
exactly.
as someone who works in the film industry, i find it quite laughable that Kojima not feeling beholden to use music he had commissioned a composer to do is being cited as one of the outrageous behaviors that pushed Konami's hand to fire him.
the fact is, the MGS series is what it is b/c Kojima esteems himself first and foremost as an artist. And a full-fledged "artist" working for hire within an "industry" is typically not going to make decisions based on what's most economical. I suppose Konami ran the numbers and decided that his approach to directing games was losing them $$$ at the end of the day. If they terminated him only because the decision-makers found him insufferable, then that was an emotional choice that probably shouldn't have made. You can always hire a fresh, eager face to buffer yourself from an asshole with talent (not contending that Kojima is an asshole; only that Konami possibly perceived him as such).
Summer Haze
Banned
GateGate.
qa_engineer
Member
Not if you're in the business of making money.
The game with "bad ass military guys" has a guy named Coward the Duck, who is a play on Howard the Duck.
I liked how he's getting a fixed payment and not taking a bonus on profits, and is making the game the absolute best it can be, and with that greater success he won't see any money. Can't complain with that. I'm sure Konami wanted it out ages ago etc, but now it will sell more and be critically acclaimed, so they're just shooting themselves in the foot yet again it seems.
We knew from the start that Konami wanted to stop making expensive games, and MGS games were always a big projects. They would have always find some reason for kicking Kojima, no matter what.
I'm glad that he was perfectionist, we get so little games made in that manner these days in AAA space. Even though they have fired him, at least we will get the best possible game.
I'm glad that he was perfectionist, we get so little games made in that manner these days in AAA space. Even though they have fired him, at least we will get the best possible game.
Yeah. Most of the problems come from how they 1984'd Kojima and Silent Hills, only keeping MGSV to presumably earn back some of the money he spent. If they were simply a little more transparent and the company itself wasn't trying to drag Kojima through the mud while simultaneously going off the deep end themselves, I doubt this would've been a debacle until they made it clear they were leaving the game industry after MGSV (And even then, it wouldn't've made people as mad).
I mean, we all appreciate everything Kojima does, but it's MGS. It's going to sell gangbusters no matter how much money went into it. I can see both the new and old CEO getting annoyed with this financial hemorrhaging, from his perspective, even if I still side with Kojima, and appreciate the quality game we're getting in return. From an artist's perspective, it's necessary, but from a businessman's perspective, it might be construed as wasteful. I just wish it was handled in a way fitting of 2 adults who disagree, and not... this.
Yup but the publisher would rather pull a WB, MS or Ubisoft or any others they rush games out that are buggy and the online doesnt work and just another unfinished game just to get it out when they want it out and not when the game is done
Coffee Dog
Banned
This doesn't preclude that, really. Most likely this started the conversation and everyone ended up pissing each other off and burning bridges.
The thing that's weird was her complaining about them not being able to afford her. It's not like HGW wouldn't be a considerably more expensive option, given that he's still an in-demand composer in Hollywood; assuming that he's the one that's been doing the bulk of the original compositions, that is.
BrianRoyale
Member
It's a breath of fresh air to when I hear that someone has the OCD to make sure a game is as perfect as it can be when it ships out. I'm worried about his future projects though, I'm not sure any company will flip that kind of bill for him going forward, and if he goes Indie I'm not sure how he'll ever get a game out.