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Konami drops 'Six Days in Fallujah' after heavy criticism

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Deleted member 30609

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Rlan said:
Honestly, if there is going to be a game about Iraq, what the hell would you want as a health system? One hit kill all the way through? Do you really want to go back to the ol' picking up health packs thing?
something like Far Cry 2, grizzly popping of bones back in to place and all, would be a better solution, I think.
 

Vagabundo

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Rlan said:
Honestly, if there is going to be a game about Iraq, what the hell would you want as a health system? One hit kill all the way through? Do you really want to go back to the ol' picking up health packs thing?

Considering the kill rate was way down - due to improved body amour - it would have to be about blowing off of body parts...
 

Brobzoid

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Rlan said:
Honestly, if there is going to be a game about Iraq, what the hell would you want as a health system? One hit kill all the way through? Do you really want to go back to the ol' picking up health packs thing?
If they are trotting around using words like realistic and 'doing right by those fallen' getting shot should seriously impair your ability to soldier on. Regardless of what mechanic they use, they should communicate how bad you messed up by getting yourself shot.

you. gone. done. fucked. up.


If you don't want to make that sort of game, then don't fucking talk shit about how you are making a realistic Iraq conflict game and how you've spoken to every swinging dick you could find in the region bla bla bla.
If you wanna make CoD knock-off #14, go ahead, but call it a spade.
 

DeBurgo

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Konami are a bunch of fucking pussies.

I mean, I wouldn't have touched the thing but it would've been hilarious to see it published.
 

besiktas1

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The only thing I can think of is how the games medium still hasn't been treated with respect by the mainstream consensus. Though I understand video went through the same thing and came out of it ok, I'm not sure about the future of games.

We had tv shows and films about the same issue not a peep. Now a game "the outrage!" Kind of sucks and to be honest thoughts like this and publishers being pussies about it will slow the industry down, and it will be a long day before we see a game tackling modern day issues.

This double standards goes the same classifications, but that topic has already been discussed to death, still it pisses me off.
 

Walshicus

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We bitch about games not being considered art, and being stuck with the toy label... but as soon as a game comes along with the potential to tackle a contemporary subject it's "too soon". It's not too soon for TV. It's not too soon for movies or books... so why is it too soon for Games?

Dropping the game because it was bad would have been fine, but dropping the game because some people have a double standard when it comes to interactive entertainment? That's annoying.

Someone posted that the game couldn't be faithful to the events and still be fun. That's not true. You can exagerate some aspects while still being faithful to the events. You can have the player making fifty or a hundred kills in the game without detracting from the message that each kill is hard, the heat of battle can lead to bad decisions and that war is messy, confused hell.

And arguing that a game like this could never be enjoyed? Schindlers List [for example] entertained, not by being full of dancing clowns on jetpowered unicycles mowing down aliens with machettes; but by taking the viewer on a powerful emotional journey. Gaming needs its Schindlers List before it will ever be taken seriously as a storytelling medium.
 

panda21

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Sir Fragula said:
We bitch about games not being considered art, and being stuck with the toy label... but as soon as a game comes along with the potential to tackle a contemporary subject it's "too soon". It's not too soon for TV. It's not too soon for movies or books... so why is it too soon for Games?

Dropping the game because it was bad would have been fine, but dropping the game because some people have a double standard when it comes to interactive entertainment? That's annoying.

Someone posted that the game couldn't be faithful to the events and still be fun. That's not true. You can exagerate some aspects while still being faithful to the events. You can have the player making fifty or a hundred kills in the game without detracting from the message that each kill is hard, the heat of battle can lead to bad decisions and that war is messy, confused hell.

And arguing that a game like this could never be enjoyed? Schindlers List [for example] entertained, not by being full of dancing clowns on jetpowered unicycles mowing down aliens with machettes; but by taking the viewer on a powerful emotional journey. Gaming needs its Schindlers List before it will ever be taken seriously as a storytelling medium.

since when has subject matter been the most important part? no one is stopping konami from making arty games.

what they are complaining about is that they were about to make the equivalent of schindlers list with dancing clowns on jetpowered unicycles mowing down aliens with machettes.
 

Sword Familiar

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Well, on a side note, Konami HAS been known to pull this kind of stunt before. Remember MGS2: Sons of Liberty and 9/11? They changed a whole section of the game because they were afraid of being pointed out as terrorists!

It seems to me that Konami's a company who can't afford bad publicity.
 

Barrett2

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Dec 7, 2007
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If the game was actually good, wouldn't they just change the name and release it as 'Generic Middle East Shooter'?

Seems like "criticism" could be a convenient excuse to kill what might have simply been a lame product. Just put UN Squadron on DSiWare and we can forget this whole incident ever happened.
 

Binabik15

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AniHawk said:
Movies romanticized WWII way before video games were even being first developed. Also, it was one war where there's this agreed-upon good vs. evil struggle. Even Germany tries to sweep up what they did 70-80 years ago.


That´s not true and not everyone in the German army was a Nazi, not everybody wanted the war, the NSDAP didn´t have a majority in the last free election, political enemies were murdered even before they took powere etc etc.

Off-topic aside, I think it´s silly to cancel the game because of some critics, there´re already movies about Iraq and stuff, just posting this to be on topic a bit.
 

Kintaro

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besiktas1 said:
The only thing I can think of is how the games medium still hasn't been treated with respect by the mainstream consensus. Though I understand video went through the same thing and came out of it ok, I'm not sure about the future of games.

Sorry to inform you, but games are still just games to the "mainstream". Nothing more, nothing less. Toys to buy your children (and your bigger children) so they will STFU in the house. This isn't really surprising.
 

Ramenman

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Yeah I mean, that war is so terrible, how could someone think that it would be a good idea to present the horror of war like it's a game ?
Seriously, this is downright irresponsible, and insulting for the families who lost relatives in the army.

BUT VIETNAM AND WW2 ARE COMPLETELY FINE RITE ? I MEAN NOBODY DIED RITE ?

Seriously, people sometimes.
 

badcrumble

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Way, way, too soon. We can't even make a My Lai game yet - and stuff like this begs the question of why anyone would want to.
 

Sword Familiar

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AniHawk said:
ZOE 3.

Konami really doesn't make a lot of great games. Metal Gear Solid, PES, and Mega Man and that's it.

lawblob said:
Seems like "criticism" could be a convenient excuse to kill what might have simply been a lame product. Just put UN Squadron on DSiWare and we can forget this whole incident ever happened.

So, what's with the Konami/Capcom mixups today anyway? Is this a new meme I've missed or what?
 

Guled

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publishers don't drop games because they suck, more so after they just had a big event showing it off. Konami just has no balls
Sword Familiar said:
So, what's with the Konami/Capcom mixups today anyway? Is this a new meme I've missed or what?
its been going on for ever
 

Ramenman

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Sword Familiar said:
So, what's with the Konami/Capcom mixups today anyway? Is this a new meme I've missed or what?

It's not new, but it does exist. Though it exists because some people actually mix them up, so if it's not obvious enough you might just want to laugh at them.

I think the original was about Capcom making Castlevania or something.
 

Sword Familiar

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Ramenman said:
It's not new, but it does exist. Though it exists because some people actually mix them up, so if it's not obvious enough you might just want to laugh at them.

I think the original was about Capcom making Castlevania or something.

They did a great Castlevania with DMC though, so I can't blame 'em there :lol
 

Loxley

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You know what, I'll say it, I'm disappointed.

I really wanted to see where they would take this, I thought it had the potential to be a very important title for video games as a medium. It amazes me that people are saying "there's no way they could have done this as a video game.", I mean seriously, way to doubt the medium (my word of the day :D). Why couldn't they have gotten away with it as a game? If yo can do a game like Heavy Rain, you can do this. A game does not need to be balls to the wall action 100% of the time. We can get away with movies, TV shows, books and comics about the war in Irag, and no one says anything, but as soon as someone comes out and says "We're going to make a video game about the Irag war" people go fucking batshit.

This is because video games are still not seen as a valid form of artistic expression (don't give me that "because its interactive" bullshit), why shouldn't they be allowed as another form of commentary?. I really thought Konami would have the balls to stick to their guns and get this game out there, and I would have had a shitload more respect for them as a developer.

I'm not saying Konami would have made the single-greatest game ever made, nor am I saying I was avidly looking forward to playing it. But I believe one of the more important titles for video games as an artistic medium in recent memory just got shit-canned, and, as I said, I'm disappointed by it.
 

Zenith

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Feb 17, 2006
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Goddamit. This looked great and we lost it because of a bunch of uptight censor-happy morons.

A proprietary engine, full destructable environment, survival horror sections when playing as a civilian.

I seriously don't understand how it can be judged controversial when we've already had documentaries, movies and even songs and comics about Fallujah, as well as several video games set in Iraq.
 

Johann

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AniHawk said:
Movies romanticized WWII way before video games were even being first developed. Also, it was one war where there's this agreed-upon good vs. evil struggle. Even Germany tries to sweep up what they did 70-80 years ago.

I think Relic Entertainment described it best, WWII is modern mythology to Americans. The is a general sense of unambiguous good vs. evil, it was long ago enough that the audience is detached from it, and while there is a set history for the conflict, there is enough room to write 'fan fiction' about the war.

It's no wonder why other wars have not been as commercial as WWII.
 

panda21

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Loxley said:
You know what, I'll say it, I'm disappointed.

I really wanted to see where they would take this, I thought it had the potential to be a very important title for video games as a medium. It amazes me that people are saying "there's no way they could have done this as a video game.", I mean seriously, way to doubt the medium (my word of the day :D). Why couldn't they have gotten away with it as a game? If yo can do a game like Heavy Rain, you can do this. A game does not need to be balls to the wall action 100% of the time. We can get away with movies, TV shows, books and comics about the war in Irag, and no one says anything, but as soon as someone comes out and says "We're going to make a video game about the Irag war" people go fucking batshit.

This is because video games are still not seen as a valid form of artistic expression (don't give me that "because its interactive" bullshit), why shouldn't they be allowed as another form of commentary?. I really thought Konami would have the balls to stick to their guns and get this game out there, and I would have had a shitload more respect for them as a developer.

I'm not saying Konami would have made the single-greatest game ever made, nor am I saying I was avidly looking forward to playing it. But I believe one of the more important titles for video games as an artistic medium in recent memory just got shit-canned, and, as I said, I'm disappointed by it.

you're basing this all on konami's hype about it

from the previews it sounds much more like COD of war set in fallujah, including marines shouting 'get some' and then charging out in the open blasting arabs rambo style.

if konami want to make 'games as art' then no one is stopping them from doing this with different subject matter. the fact that they havent speaks volumes imo

EDIT:

also theres a huge difference between simply documenting what happened (e.g generation kill) even if it wasnt particularly nice, and putting you in the position of the person doing it, which is endorsing it to an extent.
 

poppabk

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neorej said:
Just name it Six Days In Mogadishu and see how little the world cares then.
DF:Black Hawk Down came out only 10 years after the real incident, in which 18 US troops died and 100's of Somalis.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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panda21 said:
you're basing this all on konami's hype about it

from the previews it sounds much more like COD of war set in fallujah, including marines shouting 'get some' and then charging out in the open blasting arabs rambo style.

Where as you're basing this on conjecture and second hand info.

Incidentally, they addressed this "charging out in the open blasting arabs rambo style" issue in the opening press releases, which, judging by people's responses, I'm guessing not a single person read.

To paraphrase - the troops which went into fallujah were mainly green, and DID go in with that "Woo, this is gun' be fun shoot sum arabs call of duty 4 style" attitude because they hadn't experienced war. That is, in real life, the soldiers acted like that.

But by the end of the game, that attitude would have faded into despair and misery. You know, just like REAL war. The whole point of those comments is to juxtapose the myth of war with the reality of war, and those reactions were real and documented.

also theres a huge difference between simply documenting what happened (e.g generation kill) even if it wasnt particularly nice, and putting you in the position of the person doing it, which is endorsing it to an extent.

FYI, six days in fallujah was supposed to include a reporter mode, where you don't play as a soldier but instead a reporter embedded in the unit who took a completely neutral, 3rd party stance. You wouldn't be doing fighting, only observing (and surviving). Incidentally, they were also considering letting you play the game from the point of view of the citizens of fallujah.

I suspect a lot of people had misconceptions about what the game was like. In fact, they described it NOT as a FPS, but as a survival horror.
 

charlequin

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It's not that games can't ever be real art or tackle topics like this with sensitivity, it's that they can't yet and this particular game wasn't going to do it.

The expressive capacity of gaming is still in its infancy; we don't even have a Citizen Kane yet, much less works of the breadth and depth that later cinema movements brought about. And the result is the kind of ridiculous juxtaposition we see here, with talk about "respecting" the experiences of the soldiers laid on top of a game with by-the-numbers CoD gameplay.

I wasn't calling for Konami to cancel this game, but I'm not really too sad if it doesn't wind up coming out.
 
Aug 2, 2007
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It sucks and it's stupid given the release and success of Modern Warfare. However nobody at Konami had the capacity to pull the project off, at least if we base it on their previous works. To be honest I think the only guys willing and capable to pull off anything the whole area of a game set in Iraq or the Middle East where you don't just gun down terrorists on their home soil is the S.W.A.T team.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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charlequin said:
It's not that games can't ever be real art or tackle topics like this with sensitivity, it's that they can't yet and this particular game wasn't going to do it.

The expressive capacity of gaming is still in its infancy; we don't even have a Citizen Kane yet, much less works of the breadth and depth that later cinema movements brought about. And the result is the kind of ridiculous juxtaposition we see here, with talk about "respecting" the experiences of the soldiers laid on top of a game with by-the-numbers CoD gameplay.

I wasn't calling for Konami to cancel this game, but I'm not really too sad if it doesn't wind up coming out.

You know, before we got "Citizen Kane" we got "Birth of a nation", an ambitious, rough around the edges, controversial (albeit for all the wrong reasons) film which emerged at a time when films were nothing but mindless entertainment.

You have to take steps like these before you can get "Citizen Kane." CK wasn't the first ambitious, artsy movie, you know.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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Spirit of Jazz said:
It sucks and it's stupid given the release and success of Modern Warfare. However nobody at Konami had the capacity to pull the project off, at least if we base it on their previous works. To be honest I think the only guys willing and capable to pull off anything the whole area of a game set in Iraq or the Middle East where you don't just gun down terrorists on their home soil is the S.W.A.T team.

KONAMI WASN'T DEVELOPING THE GAME, THEY WERE PUBLISHING IT. IT WAS BEING DEVELOPED BY ATOMIC GAMES, WHO MAKES WAR SIMULATIONS FOR THE MILITARY.

This isn't singling you out, it's meant to point out to everyone complaining about Konami's developers that it was a freaking non-issue.
 

RavenFox

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SolidSnakex said:
Hopefully someone else will pick it up.
Wha...

sankt-Antonio said:
wait? nobody had a problem with wwII shooters or vietnam or any other war but they bitch about this? ... bah
Hey why not add a mission where spec ops teams stop the terrorist in those ill fated planes on 9-11?

Opiate said:
There's really no way to treat this with respect and also make a video game.

If it were treating the material with respect, you might kill one enemy combatant in the game. There would be no bosses. No health packs. No restoration shields of any kind. And that's just for starters: the full requirements would go much deeper than this.

To give this "proper respect," instead of just making a game, a la CoD or what have you, would be either painful, boring, or both, to most consumers, including those on GAF.

Here's a simple example: if I were to shoot 20 enemy combatants in my career as a real Marine, I would be given every medal under the sun. In "Six Days in Fallujah," that was apparently the first ten minutes of the game.

These people seriously need a reality check. Having seen the early impressions of the game, it's insulting to think these people thought this paid proper homage to the Marines, because if this is what you think is "proper respect," then you have betrayed an utter and complete lack of genuine understanding.
Amen
 

Linkified

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panda21 said:
since when has subject matter been the most important part? no one is stopping konami from making arty games.

what they are complaining about is that they were about to make the equivalent of schindlers list with dancing clowns on jetpowered unicycles mowing down aliens with machettes.

I would so play that though :lol

But really if your making a game based on regarding history all have to have some gamey aspects to them. They should have had some balls to just go with it.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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panda21 said:
what they are complaining about is that they were about to make the equivalent of schindlers list with dancing clowns on jetpowered unicycles mowing down aliens with machettes.

Or turning the holocaust into the story of cats fighting mice, with dogs rushing in to save the mice tom and jerry style.

OH WAIT, they already did that, and it was fucking brilliant. It won a pulitzer prize.

The moral - don't judge a book by it's cover. Or, in this case, don't judge the message by it's medium.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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Darkpen said:
I liked the idea :/ oh well

As did I. To clarify, I'm not saying the game would have been good, or that all the promises made would have been anything more than just PR hype, but the stuff I heard about it sounded promising, and I'd liked to have seen how it would have turned out.
 

mentalfloss

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I think calling it "in bad taste" is just their PR bullcrap. What was actually in bad taste was the fact that they built the game around regenerating health and then marketed it as a 'realistic war experience'. Auto-fail.
 

YoungHav

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lol how cowardly. I guess if they rename it a fictional jurisdiction that is obviously Iraq (ala Cod4) then everything would be all good?
 

luxarific

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TheSonicRetard said:
Or turning the holocaust into the story of cats fighting mice, with dogs rushing in to save the mice tom and jerry style.

OH WAIT, they already did that, and it was fucking brilliant. It won a pulitzer prize.

The moral - don't judge a book by it's cover. Or, in this case, don't judge the message by it's medium.

Maus was published in 1986. WWII ended in 1945. "Fallujah" is way WAY too soon. I'm sure someone will come out with an Iraq War game, but there's a reason there's a delay for these things.
 

charlequin

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TheSonicRetard said:
You know, before we got "Citizen Kane" we got "Birth of a nation", an ambitious, rough around the edges, controversial (albeit for all the wrong reasons) film which emerged at a time when films were nothing but mindless entertainment.

You have to take steps like these before you can get "Citizen Kane." CK wasn't the first ambitious, artsy movie, you know.

Sure. I didn't say no one should make the game, I said that it sounds shitty and it probably is shitty. (I rather doubt 6DiF can even aspire to being an innovatively structured and widely influential piece of morally abhorrent garbage like Birth of a Nation.)

People are going to make plenty of shitty attempts at significance before someone actually nails it. This one never struck me as particularly likely to succeed.
 

Mooreberg

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Was this actually going to be any good or is it just another case of using controversy to generate hype? Geurilla has shown what they can do since, but Shellshock Vietnam didn't have a whole lot to back up the premise.

Rlan said:
Honestly, if there is going to be a game about Iraq, what the hell would you want as a health system? One hit kill all the way through? Do you really want to go back to the ol' picking up health packs thing?

Could be a location based damage system like SWAT4 but if this was going to be a game similar to COD where you ware mowing down 80 people per level it would be tedious. If this ever comes out it will probably have a "squat the bullets out" system which would further undermine any claims of trying to make a realistic rendition of what happened.