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Konami drops 'Six Days in Fallujah' after heavy criticism

Calcaneus

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Jun 25, 2007
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This game wasn't going to do shit towards creating a realistic look into war. Most likely it would have turned out to be a shit game that none of us would have actually played.

I would have actually had some respect for the project if they were serious, but hearing about regenerating health, it was just bullshit anyways.
 

luxarific

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Feb 25, 2006
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TheSonicRetard said:
And that reason is...?


The fact that you even asked this is pathetic, but here's the main reason: people are still dying in this war. I trust you understand why selling a game based on a war in which people are still dying is a bad idea.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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luxarific said:
The fact that you even asked this is pathetic, but here's the main reason: people are still dying in this war. I trust you understand why selling a game based on a war in which people are still dying is a bad idea.

And the friends and family of those who died asked for this game to be made. Also, on-going death hasn't stopped other forms of media from tackling war, so why are video games excluded?
 

luxarific

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Feb 25, 2006
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TheSonicRetard said:
so why are video games excluded?

There's a difference in watching a marine blowing away an insurgent (and vice versa) on screen and doing it yourself, even vicariously. I know that people don't like to admit that there's a difference between gaming and other forms of media, but there is. It's the difference between watching, reading, listening and doing.

In any case, it doesn't really matter, does it? Code of Honor: Iraq will still come out - it's just going to take a few more years. Patience is your friend.
 

Calcaneus

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TheSonicRetard said:
And the friends and family of those who died asked for this game to be made. Also, on-going death hasn't stopped other forms of media from tackling war, so why are video games excluded?
Because, well, video games can be kind of dumb at times. Not many people have faith in the fact that this game would actually be sensitive to the issues and not turn out to be another dumb fps killing machine.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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luxarific said:
There's a difference in watching a marine blowing away an insurgent (and vice versa) on screen and doing it yourself, even vicariously. I know that people don't like to admit that there's a difference between gaming and other forms of media, but there is. It's the difference between watching, reading, listening and doing.

In any case, it doesn't really matter, does it? Code of Honor: Iraq will still come out - it's just going to take a few more years.

Right, but that difference isn't negative, it's simply a difference. And thats the reason I embraced this game - because it seemed like it had the potential to be a documentary told in a different way.

From the sounds of it, they were aware of those differences and played into them. Player morality was supposed to be a big factor in the game. And really, it's not so hard to see how that sort of emotion could be exploited in positive ways. I'm sure I'm not the only person who let several guards go in MGS2 when the begged for their life.
 

Brimstone

my reputation is Shadowruined
Jun 19, 2004
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In an interview with Atomic Games president, Peter Tamte, Tamte stated that "One of the divisions in our company was developing training tools for the United States Marine Corps, and they assigned some Marines from Third Battalion First Marines to help us out." However, a few months into development, Third Battalion, First Marines was deployed in Iraq and participated in the Battle of Fallujah. Tamte later stated that "When they came back from Fallujah, they asked us to create a videogame about their experiences there, and it seemed like the right thing to do." Tamte further stated that the goal of Six Days in Fallujah is to create the most realistic military shooter possible, and that "Ultimately, all of us are curious about what it would really be like to be in a war. I've been playing military shooters for ages, and at a certain point when I'm playing the game, I know it's fake. You can tell a bunch of guys sat in a room and designed it. That's always bothered me." .


So the US Marines that were actually involved in the battle wanted the game made.


But some anti-war activists in Europe complained and Konami didn't want to publish it.



A representative from the U.K. peace group, Stop The War Coalition commented, "The massacre carried out by American and British forces in Fallujah in 2004 is amongst the worst of the war crimes carried out in an illegal and immoral war. It is estimated that up to 1,000 civilians died in the bombardment and house to house raids... The American led assault on Fallujah pretended there were no civilians left in the city BUT over 50,000 people remained in their homes and took the brunt of the violence and chemical weapons...To make a game out of a war crime and to capitalise on the death and injury of thousands is sick... The massacre in Fallujah should be remembered with shame and horror not glamorised and glossed over for entertainment.


Video games, the genocidial healer of the world.
 

Brannon

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Jun 7, 2004
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AniHawk said:
Movies romanticized WWII way before video games were even being first developed. Also, it was one war where there's this agreed-upon good vs. evil struggle. Even Germany tries to sweep up what they did 70-80 years ago.

Germany didn't do anything, they were on vacation.
 

Tain

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Jun 13, 2004
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And thats the reason I embraced this game - because it seemed like it had the potential to be a documentary told in a different way.

I have yet to see an FPS that doesn't treat war stupidly. Unless you remove damn near all focus on the gamey challenge part of things, I can not see how this would be any different. It would have to be a barely-interactive showcase.

Maybe that's what people want.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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AniHawk said:
Even Germany tries to sweep up what they did 70-80 years ago.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you're implying that Germany doesn't want to remember what it did, you are very wrong. Germany is very aware of their actions, and consciously enforces people to remember their atrocities. And their general attitude if one of regret, as epitomized by their art movements of the past 30 years.

Hell, Der Untergang was released to massive criticism and controversy in Germany because it showed a human side to Hitler. Also, isn't it illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany?
 

Brannon

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Night_Trekker said:
War games based in Vietnam have always made me a little uneasy.

I've honestly yet to even play a decent Vietnam game; they always seem to get well below average scores, unless the Vietnam games are on PC, which in that case I should check it out.
 

panda21

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TheSonicRetard said:
FYI, six days in fallujah was supposed to include a reporter mode, where you don't play as a soldier but instead a reporter embedded in the unit who took a completely neutral, 3rd party stance. You wouldn't be doing fighting, only observing (and surviving). Incidentally, they were also considering letting you play the game from the point of view of the citizens of fallujah.

I suspect a lot of people had misconceptions about what the game was like. In fact, they described it NOT as a FPS, but as a survival horror.

but from the sounds of this:

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1110

it wasnt going to be an accurate portrayal
 
Jun 3, 2008
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Tain said:
I have yet to see an FPS that doesn't treat war stupidly. Unless you remove damn near all focus on the gamey challenge part of things, I can not see how this would be any different. It would have to be a barely-interactive showcase.

Maybe that's what people want.

Right, neither did I. And thats why this game caught my attention.

I think they WERE going for removing a lot of the gamey challenge parts, judging by how they describe it as a survival horror game.

Either way, condemning a game that hasn't been released for failing to live up to it's potential seems kind of backwards. Shouldn't we have saved the backlash for when it actually fucked up?
 
Jun 3, 2008
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panda21 said:
but from the sounds of this:

http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1110

it wasnt going to be an accurate portrayal

From the sounds of this and this (all reported around the same time as your article) it was going to be an accurate portrayal. Incidentally, your article includes a lot of conjecture, and the author sounds like he was never able to get over the initial shock of "A VIDEO GAME COVERING A WAR?!" and let it cloud his judgment of the game.

Either way, I'd have much rather been able to judge the game for myself, rather than having my opinion of the game funneled through outraged media outlets.
 

panda21

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TheSonicRetard said:
From the sounds of this and this (all reported around the same time as your article) it was going to be an accurate portrayal. Incidentally, your article includes a lot of conjecture, and the author sounds like he was never able to get over the initial shock of "A VIDEO GAME COVERING A WAR?!" and let it cloud his judgment of the game.

Either way, I'd have much rather been able to judge the game for myself, rather than having my opinion of the game funneled through outraged media outlets.

those two articles are basically just konami's PR quoted, whereas the one i posted is a description of and reaction to the gameplay footage they presented.
 

poppabk

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luxarific said:
The fact that you even asked this is pathetic, but here's the main reason: people are still dying in this war. I trust you understand why selling a game based on a war in which people are still dying is a bad idea.
You may not have noticed but Somalia still isn't peaceful.
 

Musashi Wins!

FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Jun 7, 2004
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Sir Fragula said:
And arguing that a game like this could never be enjoyed? Schindlers List [for example] entertained, not by being full of dancing clowns on jetpowered unicycles mowing down aliens with machettes; but by taking the viewer on a powerful emotional journey. Gaming needs its Schindlers List before it will ever be taken seriously as a storytelling medium.

I've found gaming's new Citizen Kane. It's Schidler's List. Start your meme engines.
 

Ninja Kn1ght

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Wow they bailed out pretty fast. Are they so oblivious that they really weren't expecting anyone to criticise the idea? I thought it had potential.
 

Brannon

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Maybe they need to add more fist fighting Bin Laden, or nuclear detonations in the Middle East. This would be best.
 

Flachmatuch

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TheSonicRetard said:
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you're implying that Germany doesn't want to remember what it did, you are very wrong. Germany is very aware of their actions, and consciously enforces people to remember their atrocities. And their general attitude if one of regret, as epitomized by their art movements of the past 30 years.

Hell, Der Untergang was released to massive criticism and controversy in Germany because it showed a human side to Hitler. Also, isn't it illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany?

Hey, it's Germany, they lost the war, you know? They have to remember. Belgium, or Britain, or the US, on the other hand, haven't, so they're allowed to forget.

Anyway, noone in their right mind can believe that a game with an "embedded" reporter, playing from the viewpoint of US Marines could be anything else but shitty propaganda?
 

Quixzlizx

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Jul 6, 2006
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Revelations said:
...WWII games and Vietnam games have about a 50 to 60 year gap from today. The Iraqi War is only 4 to 5 years old. Give it some time its still fresh in the minds of Americans. You'd think the developers and Konami would have known this.

wat
 

H.Cornerstone

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My only problem with this is nobody gives a damn if a movie or tv show is made about the iraqi war, it's seen as being "proactive" and showcasing the truth. (stop loss, that one show on HBO, Jarhead.) But once you make a video game about it, it's "Tasteless"

These double standards of the video game industry continue to drive me crazy!
 

gutter_trash

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Feb 4, 2005
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games based on wars/conflicts that are still in progress should not be made until the last troop has left.

everyone who brings up Germany gotta consider how oooollldd those two wars were.

Iraq is not a conventional war, it was a regime change invasion
 
Sep 3, 2006
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I want that all World War 2 games are forbidden, because my grandfather fought there!!!!1

I'm very sensitive about that!
 

mentalfloss

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Graf Nudu said:
I want that all World War 2 games are forbidden, because my grandfather fought there!!!!1

I'm very sensitive about that!

I'm pretty sure your grandfather fought awesomely, but all WW2 games should still be forbidden because they suck.
 

Josh7289

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Konami's going to have to do a lot of good to make up for canceling this game. Dumbasses. If they weren't prepared to face the (unwarranted) criticism, then why did they even bother to announce the game? It's not like it was hard to predict they'd come under fire.

I really hope the devs find a better publisher that won't bail out on them again.
 

Pojo

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Did this game follow the life of Pat Tillman or something? Because it didn't seem offensive to me in the least.

It's a game about war in the Middle East. So what. It doesn't trivialize war because most rational people can separate a game from reality, and it's vague enough to work anyway.
 

panda21

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i suppose the problem with a forum this large is that theres an endless supply of people who will support pretty much anything, no matter how ridiculous.
 
Jun 3, 2008
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i suppose the problem with a forum this large is that theres an endless supply of people who will bitch about pretty much anything, no matter how ridiculous.
 

fresquito

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gutter_trash said:
games based on wars/conflicts that are still in progress should not be made until the last troop has left.

everyone who brings up Germany gotta consider how oooollldd those two wars were.

Iraq is not a conventional war, it was a regime change invasion
Sorry, but wars are started for power and/or resources. I can't see how Iraq isn't a conventional war.
 

sonicmj1

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Pojo said:
Did this game follow the life of Pat Tillman or something? Because it didn't seem offensive to me in the least.

It's a game about war in the Middle East. So what. It doesn't trivialize war because most rational people can separate a game from reality, and it's vague enough to work anyway.

Well, what is your conception of the 'reality' of this war?

Considering how intentionally sanitized a lot of the coverage of the Iraq War and its day-to-day happenings is, an Iraq war game that apes Gears of War while purporting to be a documentary only reinforces a lot of the false notions that people have about the way war works.
 

Walshicus

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Musashi Wins! said:
I've found gaming's new Citizen Kane. It's Schidler's List. Start your meme engines.
It was just the first great film based on tragedy that came to mind...


Anyhow, I read the preview linked to in the thread and am less annoyed the game was cancelled. I'd prefer if the cause was because it appeared to be shit, than because people bitched about it though
 

Brobzoid

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H.Cornerstone said:
My only problem with this is nobody gives a damn if a movie or tv show is made about the iraqi war, it's seen as being "proactive" and showcasing the truth. (stop loss, that one show on HBO, Jarhead.) But once you make a video game about it, it's "Tasteless"

These double standards of the video game industry continue to drive me crazy!
You do realize why video games of this nature are tasteless and movies/tv series/books/songs can by pass-it? Because a fucking first person shooter where you shoot three men through the entire game wouldn't be too fun, now would it? However any other medium can tell a story about a soldier not killing shit when tasked with that specific task. I usually support the artsy fart game movement, but this game was PR bullshit trying to spin a random-ass FPS shooter into something "real" and that is actually quite offensive when the subject matter is people getting killed, traumatized and mangled for life. You can't say you're gonna represent that in a proper light and then half-ass it.
 

Totobeni

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Nov 3, 2007
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unless Konami own the IP / copyright for the game , isn't Destineer games ( they bought Atomic Games studio ) a publisher ? so they can publish their own games if Konami don't want to .
 

Jswanko

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Pojo said:
Did this game follow the life of Pat Tillman or something? Because it didn't seem offensive to me in the least.

Since the game isn't coming out its hard to say on just the idea that it would be offensive. It is immediately distasteful, i think, especially for the connotation that Fallujah has with many Americans, the burned hanging bodies of soldiers on a bridge.

The problem is, for me, this feels almost like mini war profiteering.
 

AniHawk

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TheSonicRetard said:
I'm not sure what you mean by this, but if you're implying that Germany doesn't want to remember what it did, you are very wrong. Germany is very aware of their actions, and consciously enforces people to remember their atrocities. And their general attitude if one of regret, as epitomized by their art movements of the past 30 years.

Hell, Der Untergang was released to massive criticism and controversy in Germany because it showed a human side to Hitler. Also, isn't it illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany?

I think I either got confused with Japan or Turkey.