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Kondo on Falcom's future, the studio's localization efforts, and how he sees From Soft and Atlus as allies in the quest to keep JRPGs thriving

Thick Thighs Save Lives

NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
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Kondo sat down with GameSpot for an exclusive interview on what's next for the studio, particularly as it begins to wrap up the Trails series--which began in 2004--for good. With a team of now-veteran developers full of ideas (and a bit worn down from working on long-running series), the team is ready to showcase new ideas, new IPs, and their new business model, which leverages the studio's reputation and smaller-scale to create unique projects and expand the JRPG genre. Regardless of if you're a longtime fan of the studio--or a newcomer who's been a bit overwhelmed by its vast catalog of games--there's never been a better time to turn your eyes towards the company.

[...]

With Trails starting to wind down and this emphasis on new IPs, is the studio looking at starting a new major series?

As for a direct successor to the Trail series, there's nothing specifically planned--we're just extremely focused on finishing up Trails. However, in terms of new IPs, there are actually several things that are actively being worked on right now.

You see, the Trails series has been going on for 20 years now, and as great a thing as that is, the issue is that that means a lot of folks have been working on that title for many, many years. They want to try new things. They have new ideas. There are new challenges they want to tackle.

Developing a game series like Trails over this great period of time is kind of like developing an online game in that you're constantly thinking, "What's the next event or thing that we have to do? What's the course of the game itself?" And what that causes, a lot of times, is that the younger staff and their development kind of stagnates for a while. But I want them to be able to grow and experience new things that lead to new skills and new ideas.

So, in the background, we allow them to create and work on these new IPs--to talk about the things that they want to do. I believe that that will make them even stronger developers and they'll have even better ideas that contribute even more to our games.

Is it a bit scary, going away from these established worlds and characters and starting a new adventure?

Yeah. It's absolutely disconcerting to think about creating something new--to worry if people will like it or not. But the cool thing about development is that when you're in the midst of it, there usually comes a point when you feel like there's something there. There's something that you're creating and it's coming together. It's gelling. And it becomes the thing that you want to take out into the world to show people.

Having that feeling, that's kind of what gives you the ability to carry on. Even though you might be scared because it's a game that no one's ever heard of before in terms of IP and characters, the fact that you created something--that you know there's something there and that you want to show it to other people--is what allows us to bring out these new games and it's why we want to.

As time has gone on, I feel like making the crossover from Japan to the States--in terms of both distribution and finding a dedicated audience--seems to have gotten simpler. And we've seen studios, like Atlus for example, have these sudden booms in Western countries that set forth these resurgences. But do you think that it's now easier to make that transition? Or do you feel like maybe it's more competitive now?

Rather than a feeling of competitiveness, it's more a feeling of cooperation. We've been making games for a very long time--since the 1980s--and back then JRPGs didn't have a lot of success or popularity. And so a big contributor to our genre's growing success is these companies like Atlus who have these great games that come out regularly.

And as the Western market has finally started to accept, appreciate, and be hungry for these Japanese RPGs, ultimately it feels like less studios are making them. We are probably the smallest makers, but companies like Capcom and Konami, who used to have strong JRPG series, have largely backed away from them.

So it's a very limited market which is a shame because if the market's hungry for something, you have to have a constant supply to satisfy those people and maintain it. So, rather than seeing Atlas, for example, as a rival--although I can't speak to Mr. Hajime--I see when their games come out as a good thing. It means the market's being satisfied and more and more people are learning about what makes JRPGs great.

Do you think that the company will ever reach a place in which the Japanese and the English versions of the games are released simultaneously? Is that a goal that the company has?

Yes, we would love for the games to come out at the same time. That is actually one of the things that we're working with with NIS America to do--to decrease that time as we go forward in the future. We understand the necessity to have the games come out as soon as possible.

I hear it occasionally from the Western fanbase that they would love if games could come out sooner. We know that fans want to play the game as soon as possible--it is something we really want to do and will work on going forward.

You will notice though that we have been trying to decrease the amount of time. Daybreak, for example, came to the United States much sooner than titles in the past. And Ys X will, comparatively, be coming out not long after its release date in Japan.

But it's important to say that we have a standard of quality that we need to maintain as well. Our priority is to bring a high quality game for [English-speaking] fans so that they experience the same thing as our Japanese fans do. We will never sacrifice that quality in order to get a game out quickly. So it's been about finding that balance.

You mentioned the term "JRPG" a moment ago and I'm curious, because there has been some debate on if "JRPG" pigeonholes games made in Japan, is that label one you embrace? Would you prefer that people say, "turn-based RPG" or "action RPG?"

Originally, JRPG was kind of used as a pejorative and, obviously, we didn't like it. There was this initial reaction against it. But gradually, it feels like it's almost begun to mean the opposite. I mean, take something like Miyazaki-san's Elden Ring. I've asked myself "Is that a JRPG?" Well, maybe not quite. But at the same time, one of the things you can kind of identify in JRPGs are these influences from anime and manga. Knowing how to incorporate those elements and themes into games gives them that distinct Japanese flavor, which is not only a good thing, but creates a sort of cultural bond too. Japanese people can kind of come together and rally around this specific thing and make it our own.

So while in the past I might have kind of shied away from that terminology or kind of cringed at it, it's now something I embrace. There is a thing that only the Japanese creators can create by using these elements that we discussed. And by doing so, it creates something worthy of celebration. Rather than solely make RPGs, we make JRPGs--we're proud to say it.

I love that you mentioned Elden Ring and that sort of "well, is it a JRPG?" feeling because it does feel like a hard genre to define. How would you describe it?

That's difficult. Obviously the easy answer is, "Well, if it's made in Japan…" But when you look at what is made in Japan, it's trickier. There's action RPGs--can those be JRPGs? Are only turn-based games JRPGs? Well, no, not necessarily. There's kind of an ineffable thing that makes games in Japan, specifically JRPGs, what they are. It can't really be described. But it's the core and the essence of what a JRPG is. It's why I loved them from the time I was a child and why all of the people at Falcom feel it necessary to share that love for the next generation. So that people can continue to love them and to get involved with them.

The rest of the interview is up on Gamespot's website so be sure to give them a visit.

 

Sentenza

Gold Member
Originally, JRPG was kind of used as a pejorative
No, it fucking wasn't.
Like with anything, there were people who didn't like the genre that much, of course, but there were also plenty who thought it was the best genre that ever existed and insisted for years (some still insist today) that JRPGs "run circles around the western counterparts".
Why they keep saying this bullshit? Is this some sort of persecution complex?
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
He hits on the core issue. If JRPG just means RPG from Japan then Elden Ring does count as much as any modern WRPG action open world game counts.

If JRPG means old retro game with turn based battles and menus, then by definition it is only going to refer to a limited scope of retro game and will always fall behind the biggest WRPGs. No one says that Witcher isn't a WRPG just because it's not a top down CRPG with menus like Baldur's Gate or Wizardry. But people say Elden Ring isn't a JRPG, so the label "JRPG" is a pigeon holed nonsense term that only refers to small retro games for the most part. Even western games like Sea of Stars get called JRPGs, despite being made in Canada.

This whole term needs to die. It's a completely lopsided set of definitions if WRPG can be action TPS games like Mass Effect, but JRPGs have to be retro games. The retro games will always come up short. People are so confused they even call stuff like Dragon's Dogma a WRPG sometimes. Just totally confused and useless terminology at this point that mostly just promotes the sterotype that JRPGs haven't evolved or remained competitive, because by definition when they do evolve, they're no longer JRPGs apparently.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
No, it fucking wasn't.
Like with anything, there were people who didn't like the genre that much, of course, but there were also plenty who thought it was the best genre that ever existed and insisted for years (some still insist today) that JRPGs "run circles around the western counterparts".
Why they keep saying this bullshit? Is this some sort of persecution complex?
Yeah that was the one line that stood out to me as being total bullshit.

Maybe this is some insight into the thinking among JRPG studios? Like this is the belief among the people who replaced anime style cover art with ugly western art, and who didn’t localize half their games for the west, and gave us Final Fantasy Mystic Quest and Secret of Evermore instead of FFV and SD3, etc. It would explain a lot.

And yeah I do think there’s a persecution complex deeply ingrained in the psyche of the JRPG fandom. In the 90s half the games never even left Japan. In the 2000s WRPGs exploded in popularity with KoToR, Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, Fallout, Dragon Age, Witcher etc… and I think a large part of the JRPG fandom felt deeply resentful and jealous seeing WRPGs (and other western games) getting so much of the mainstream attention and critical acclaim.

Even today, every time some traditional turn based JRPG becomes moderately successful, people act like it’s some hard fought victory against the gaijin dudebros.
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Anime/Manga look gets my automatic J“whatever” tag.
Doesn’t even have to be made in Japan.
Exactly. I hate this semantic argument like “if it’s an RPG made by a Japanese studio then by definition it’s a JRPG”. It’s like saying that any waffles made in Belgium are Belgian Waffles and any made outside Belgium are not.

No, JRPG is the name of a genre that was defined and popularized by Japanese studios. That is all.

Maybe it’d be more accurate to call them “anime style RPGs” or something. I kinda wish that were the case, so we can stop seeing the same stupid “what is a JRPG” arguments over and over. But too bad, “JRPG” is what we got, deal with it.

And if you’re upset because many games don’t fit perfectly into one genre or another, too bad. That is a “you” problem not a genre problem, and it’s hardly limited to gaming.
 

AmuroChan

Member
Part of me wishes they would continue Trails forever, but I also understand the desire to do something new. In any case, I wish them the best. Nihon Falcom is one of my favorite developers.
 

Sentenza

Gold Member
He hits on the core issue. If JRPG just means RPG from Japan then Elden Ring does count as much as any modern WRPG action open world game counts.

If JRPG means old retro game with turn based battles
It's neither and I'm not sure why people keep pretending of being purposefully obtuse about the topic.

A JRPG isn't just "an RPG from Japan" but a RPG that ascribes to a certain amount of conventions (pre-determined protagonist, anime/manga inspired in style, a large cast of young characters, etc).
There are plenty of games not made in Japan that are commonly labeled as JRPGs at this point, and figuring out why isn't rocket science, in spite of all the people who keep trying to be fastidious about it.

That said, there isn't just ONE type of JRPG like there isn't just one type of "western/computer RPG".
No one would attempt to claim that Baldur's Gate 2 and 3 belong to different genres because one is RTWP and the other is turn-based.
In the same way no one would struggle to put Ys VIII and Final Fantasy VII in the same broad genre only because one has action combat and the other is turn-based.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
It's neither and I'm not sure why people keep pretending of being purposefully obtuse about the topic.

A JRPG isn't just "an RPG from Japan" but a RPG that ascribes to a certain amount of conventions (pre-determined protagonist, anime/manga inspired in style,
That said, there isn't just ONE type of JRPG like there isn't just one type of "western/computer RPG".
No one would attempt to claim that Baldur's Gate 2 and 3 belong to different genres because one is RTWP and the other is turn-based.
In the same way no one would struggle to put Ys VIII and Final Fantasy VII in the same broad genre only because one has action combat and the other is turn-based.
I honestly don't think it ascribes to any certain amount of anything. Japanese RPG is what it stands for, so its not my fault that everyone gets pissed if you just look at the words literally. Just shows how nonsense it is.

What differentiates FFXVI from Elden Ring? Both have real time combat, exploration, side quests, leveling up, gear equipment, bosses, both with anime influences.
 

Sentenza

Gold Member
I honestly don't think it ascribes to any certain amount of anything.
Yeah, but you are wrong.

What differentiates FFXVI from Elden Ring? Both have real time combat, exploration, side quests, leveling up, gear equipment, bosses, both with anime influences.
Art style, mood/vibe, the specific type of combat, type of progression system, presentation, mechanics, type of itemization, the fact that Miyazaki himself said several times JRPGs aren't a particularly strong preference of his and he deliberately tried to do something different, etc, etc.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
No, it fucking wasn't.
Like with anything, there were people who didn't like the genre that much, of course, but there were also plenty who thought it was the best genre that ever existed and insisted for years (some still insist today) that JRPGs "run circles around the western counterparts".
Why they keep saying this bullshit? Is this some sort of persecution complex?
This. JRPGs were my favorite games when I was younger. Chrono Trigger, Terranigma, Golden Sun, Secret of Mana, Illusion of Time (that's Gaia for you Euros), Grandia, Suikoden, Breath of Fire, and the list goes on and on and on. It was never used as a pejorative label, especially back then when they were far more prevalent than they are today.

In fact, many of the best-selling titles were JRPGs at the time. Final Fantasy VII or Chrono Trigger for instance.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Yeah, but you are wrong.


Art style, mood/vibe,the specific type of combat, type of progression system, presentation, mechanics,type of itemization, the fact that Miyazaki himself said several times JRPGs aren't a particularly strong preference of his and he deliberately tried to do something different, etc, etc.
Get specific. I don't care what Miyazaki says. This is basic language and genre conventions.

Art style? How? The whole genre can now only have a certain type of art style? Is there any other genre in existence that has limits on art style? No. Zero. Nonsense.

Mood/vibe, are you serious? What is the difference in the mood/vibe? One is a Game of Thrones ripoff with DBZ ripoff, and the other is a from something written by George RR Martin himself with Berserk ripoff.

Type of combat how? They're both real time combat with melee and magic. Both have lock on or don't lock on.

Presentation how?

Mechanics how?

Type of itemization is nonsense. JRPGs have had all ranges of gear from multiple pieces to limited pieces. That's not a valid point.
 
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ReyBrujo

Member
No, it fucking wasn't.
I would think it used to, back in time DQ1 and FF1 were seen as attempts to make the hardcore RPG genre simpler, which was something hardcore players didn't want. And during the PS era anything "JRPG" was about young boys with androgynous looks but looking more and more like stylized women. I'm not Japanese but sometimes these issues might be more noticeable for Japanese than for Western people.

JRPGs were my favorite games when I was younger.
Mine too but it's just anecdotal evidence. Maybe he's just basing his words in his own anecdotal evidence or maybe in Japanese anecdotal evidence.

many of the best-selling titles were JRPGs at the time
That doesn't mean the term wasn't used pejoratively though. You can use a genre of music as pejorative term and still the genre can easily outsell everything else in the market.
 
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Gaiff

SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
Mine too but it's just anecdotal evidence. Maybe he's just basing his words in his own anecdotal evidence or maybe in Japanese anecdotal evidence.

That doesn't mean the term wasn't used pejoratively though. You can use a genre of music as pejorative term and still the genre can easily outsell everything else in the market.
Could be the term was used pejoratively in Japan but not here. It wasn't used any more pejoratively than the term "military shooter" which had and still has a fair amount of detractors as well, but the implication that JRPGs were widely panned is false. It was a subgenre that had its lovers and haters like everything else. It wasn't stigmatized.
 
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Sentenza

Gold Member
This is basic language and genre conventions.
Exactly.

Art style? How? The whole genre can now only have a certain type of art style? Is there any other genre in existence that has limits on art style? No. Zero. Nonsense.
It's not that the genre CAN have only a type of art style, it's that it usually does. "Anime/manga" is also a BROAD definition that comes with TONS of internal variations.

And like with ANY genre defitinitions, you basically can't pick a single characteristic where there isn't an exception OR an overlap with other genres, but overall when you start to pile up the various aspects that make the experience you can clearly tell which is which.
No one ever fucking struggled to give a glance to Ys or Trails in the Sky and conclude "Yep, they are both JRPGs even if they play different".

Type of combat how? They're both real time combat with melee and magic. Both have lock on or don't lock on.
Flashy, abstract, stylish and (ONCE AGAIN) with anime aesthetic vs grounded, gritty, realistic and with animations that (for the most part) wouldn't be particularly out of place in something more simulative.


Presentation how?
See above.

Mechanics how?
Character creation, class selection, high customization, gradual progression curve vs set protagonist who's a young hero (but in the case of XVI admittedly older than usual) and exponential explosion in power with stats etc (the good old "start the game at 29 HP, end it at 9999HP" etc).

Type of itemization is nonsense. JRPGs have had all ranges of gear from multiple pieces to limited pieces. That's not a valid point.
They have typically an explosive power curve, where you are constantly replacing gear with other that is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful on the numeric scale (letting alone special properties that may come as a bonus).
In the Souls-like/Elden Ring on the other hand every weapon or piece of equipment is a viable one all the way through the ending, upgrades are the main driving force behind your increase in power and even then the gap between a level 1 starting character and a end game one is FAR more narrow. You can be surrounded by a group of early-game enemies in the end game of a Souls-like and still consider them a relative threat to your life, while end-game Cloud could go AFK confident that no level 5 enemies will ever be able to touch him (if the game was real-time or progressed in fast forward on its own).
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
Exactly.


It's not that the genre CAN have only a type of art style, it's that it usually does. "Anime/manga" is also a BROAD definition that comes with TONS of internal variations.

And like with ANY genre defitinitions, you basically can't pick a single characteristic where there isn't an exception OR an overlap with other genres, but overall when you start to pile up the various aspects that make the experience you can clearly tell which is which.
No one ever fucking struggled to give a glance to Ys or Trails in the Sky and conclude "Yep, they are both JRPGs even if they play different".


Flashy, abstract, stylish and (ONCE AGAIN) with anime aesthetic vs grounded, gritty, realistic and with animations that (for the most part) wouldn't be particularly out of place in something more simulative.



See above.


Character creation, class selection, high customization, gradual progression curve vs set protagonist who's a young hero (but in the case of XVI admittedly older than usual) and exponential explosion in power with stats etc (the good old "start the game at 29 HP, end it at 9999HP" etc).


They have typically an explosive power curve, where you are constantly replacing gear with other that is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful on the numeric scale (letting alone special properties that may come as a bonus).
In the Souls-like/Elden Ring on the other hand every weapon or piece of equipment is a viable one all the way through the ending, upgrades are the main driving force behind your increase in power and even then the gap between a level 1 starting character and a end game one is FAR more narrow. You can be surrounded by a group of early-game enemies in the end game of a Souls-like and still consider them a relative threat to your life, while end-game Cloud could go AFK confident that no level 5 enemies will ever be able to touch him (if the game was real-time or progressed in fast forward on its own).
Elden Ring has tons of anime aesthetics. It's literally lifted tons of stuff from Berserk. Or look at multiple bosses in the game. And flashy and abstract is not required to be a JRPG, or Dragon Quest 1 and Final Fantasy 1-6 wouldn't count, among dozens of others. And Amano isn't an anime artist. Character creation isn't part of determining a JRPG either or DQ IX and Final Fantasy 1 aren't JRPGs now. You're just not coming up with any convincing things that people can actually use to refer to a real genre, which is exactly my point. That gear rant at the end is such minutae it's barely worth addressing. FFXIII has an upgrade system where you can use starter gear through most of the game as well, these are not enough to make a genre. Good lord. Class selection counts as what? It's in Elden Ring and Final Fantasy 1. None of this makes any sense.
 
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Sentenza

Gold Member
You are rabidly nitpicking because you can't come to terms with the main point:

like with ANY genre defitinitions, you basically can't pick a single characteristic where there isn't an exception OR an overlap with other genres, but overall when you start to pile up the various aspects that make the experience you can clearly tell which is which.
No one ever fucking struggled to give a glance to Ys or Trails in the Sky and conclude "Yep, they are both JRPGs even if they play different".
"He took ideas from Berserk" (which is already a highly unconventional manga when it comes to art and tone) is not enough to pigeon-hole Dark Sous as "anime" in aesthetic.

This is not about having a perfect match on every single point of a list "otherwise you can't qualify". This is about recognizing that there are common traits that BROADLY define a subgenre and that they can present themselves in different mixtures.

Once again: no one struggles to recognize a JRPG when they see one. No one except the people are purposefully trying to be obtuse about it to make some abstract point.

There's nothing about FFXVI that is particularly hard to fit in the JRPG hole.
There's way too much about the Souls-like that hardly fits unless you start kicking and punching to push the round piece in the squared hole.
 
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Shake Your Rump

Gold Member
I'm still reading the article, but already...

"The term JRPGs was previously used somewhat degradingly in Western countries"

What? Who? Where? As someone who has lived in "western countries" for over 40 years and been gaming for almost all of them, no one ever used JRPG in this fashion.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
You are rabidly nitpicking because you can't come to terms with the main point:



This is not about having a perfect match on every single point of a list "otherwise you can't qualify". This is about recognizing that there are common traits that BROADLY define a subgenre and that they can present themselves in different mixtures.

Once again: no one struggles to recognize a JRPG when they see one. No one except the people are purposefully trying to be obtuse about it to make some abstract point.

There's nothing about FFXVI that is particularly hard to fit in the JRPG hole.
There's way too much about the Souls-like that hardly fits unless you start kicking and punching to push the round piece in the squared hole.
I'm not rabid and I'm not nitpicking. You're literally not offering anything that rationally qualifies as a genre. It shouldn't be that hard to tell what genre a game is. They're broad, general terms.

Mine at least makes sense. RPG from Japan. Broad, clear. Makes sense. Allows for genre growth over time, experimentation.

And you must have missed all discussion about FFXVI because tons of people were claiming it wasn't even an RPG, let alone a JRPG. The title on the box is doing a lot of the heavy lifting because people don't think about any of this rationally. And you must have missed all JRPG genre discussion, because tons of people struggle to recognize it when they see it. Again, look at Sea of Stars, Chain of Echoes, and tons of other examples. Nothing about Souls is hard to fit in the JRPG genre for me at all. Nothing about Mass Effect 2 is hard to fit in the WRPG genre for me at all.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
I honestly don't think it ascribes to any certain amount of anything. Japanese RPG is what it stands for, so its not my fault that everyone gets pissed if you just look at the words literally. Just shows how nonsense it is.

What differentiates FFXVI from Elden Ring? Both have real time combat, exploration, side quests, leveling up, gear equipment, bosses, both with anime influences.
Do you also get all worked up that technically Super Mario Bros. is a role playing game because you play the role of Mario? You are getting hung up on the literal definitions of the words. It’s the name of a genre, that is all.

And BTW I think the reason the “JRPG” label has stuck around is largely because there are FANS of this genre who like this style of games and actively seek out games that fall under this category. Not because of ignorant gaijins trying to denigrate and pigeonhole those cartoony weeb games into some lesser genre.

I search for JRPGs when I’m in the mood for something like Final Fantasy, Xenoblade, Persona, Ys, etc. Not when I’m the mood for freaking Dragon’s Dogma or Elden Ring.

It’s a useful category to have. And if you somehow managed to convince the entire gaming community to switch to your new definition of “JRPG” then you’d still need to come up with some other term to refer to what the rest of us currently understand “JRPG” to mean.
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
I search for JRPGs when I’m in the mood for something like Final Fantasy, Xenoblade, Persona, Ys, etc. Not when I’m the mood for freaking Dragon’s Dogma or Elden Ring.
Final Fantasy XVI has more in common with Dragon's Dogma and Elden Ring than it does Xenoblade and Persona. So I honestly have no clue what that even means.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Final Fantasy XVI has more in common with Dragon's Dogma and Elden Ring than it does Xenoblade and Persona. So I honestly have no clue what that even means.
So what? Many FF fans have argued that FF XVI is barely a JRPG and I’d tend to agree.

That is not a problem with the label “JRPG”, that is the term “JRPG” being used in exactly the way the vast majority of us have no problem understanding: as the name of a genre.
 

Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
So what? Many FF fans have argued that FF XVI is barely a JRPG and I’d tend to agree.

That is not a problem with the label “JRPG”, that is the term “JRPG” being used in exactly the way the vast majority of us have no problem understanding: as the name of a genre.
I just think it's a stupid non-genre, and it even existing causes multiple problems. I said this in my 1st post. WRPGs have much more latitude to experiment, modernize, and come out with all kinds of broad and innovative elements. JRPGs modernize at all and they're not even a JRPG anymore, which is just stupid. The only two regional "genres" we have are not treated as equivalents, but everyone still rates them as equivalents which automatically puts JRPG forever behind, which is what makes it a derivative slur. The main JRPG franchise out there, Final Fantasy, is literally defined by trying to break as many of those conventions as possible, which is what you want from any modern and healthy genre with creative people working in it.

JRPG as you use it is equivalent to "boomer shooter," something that is barely even a real genre, a sub-genre at best, and mostly refers to a specific type of menu-based retro game. Boomer shooter also has a specific art style most of the time. It's a sub-genre at best. "JRPG" needs a different name that highlights what it really is, since it's not even trying to be modern or innovative. Imagine having a genre that locks out all the best games (Final Fantasy, Dragon's Dogma, Elden Ring). And this article is all about how Falcom considers them allies, and that is exactly why. Those are the biggest RPG makers in Japan making the biggest budget RPGs in the whole country.
 
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Hudo

Member
This is the worst interview I've read all year. The interviewer is a fucking retard. The fuck are these questions?
 

ReyBrujo

Member
Could be the term was used pejoratively in Japan but not here. It wasn't used any more pejoratively than the term "military shooter" which had and still has a fair amount of detractors as well, but the implication that JRPGs were widely panned is false. It was a subgenre that had its lovers and haters like everything else. It wasn't stigmatized.
I would say it was stigmatized when Mass Effect, The Elder Scroll and such games kind of revived the western genre, then it was used as a synonym or with the idea behind obsolescence, or cliché. There has been interviews by BioWare giving an opinion about JRPGs that drew a lot of attention as well. Japanese don't call their pop music "jpop" and they don't call their role-playing games "jrpg" so they feel uncomfortable with the term because most of the times you can replace "jrpg" with "obsolete" or "archaic rpg" to which they feel is the idea that term is usually conveying.

Whether they think it's true or not cannot be judged, sensibilities vary and it's hard to judge what a Japanese developer feels when he hears the term "jrpg". Might also be because Japanese is a language of silences and many times you ought to read between lines and so they are reading English interviews and opinions as if they were Japanese.

Yoshida mentioned that they didn't like the term when it appeared 15 years ago (at about the time that BioWare interview was made public and those "revolutionary" games) which leads me to believe they didn't know or care about the term before that but it was only when the meaning "obsolete" and "archaic" was attached to it. Have you ever heard about "jpuzzle"? Or "jfighting"? I guess that's his point, a genre is a genre and should not be categorized by nationality.
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
I just think it's a stupid non-genre, and it even existing causes multiple problems. I said this in my 1st post. WRPGs have much more latitude to experiment, modernize, and come out with all kinds of broad and innovative elements. JRPGs modernize at all and they're not even a JRPG anymore, which is just stupid. The only two regional "genres" we have are not treated as equivalents, but everyone still rates them as equivalents which automatically puts JRPG forever behind, which is what makes it a derivative slur. The main JRPG franchise out there, Final Fantasy, is literally defined by trying to break as many of those conventions as possible, which is what you want from any modern and healthy genre with creative people working in it.

JRPG as you use it is equivalent to "boomer shooter," something that is barely even a real genre, a sub-genre at best, and mostly refers to a specific type of menu-based retro game. Boomer shooter also has a specific art style most of the time. It's a sub-genre at best. "JRPG" needs a different name that highlights what it really is, since it's not even trying to be modern or innovative. Imagine having a genre that locks out all the best games (Final Fantasy, Dragon's Dogma, Elden Ring). And this article is all about how Falcom considers them allies, and that is exactly why. Those are the biggest RPG makers in Japan making the biggest budget RPGs in the whole country.
A genre can evolve. A game can incorporate elements from multiple genres and not fit neatly into any of them. A series can evolve so much that gamers question whether it still belongs in the same genre as its predecessors. Those things are all going to be true whether the term JRPG exists or not.

If you’re successful in your crusade to abolish “JRPG” then you’re still going to need some other term to replace it, because that is a distinct category that is useful to fans of that genre. If a gamer is searching for something like Persona or Trails in the Sky, they’re searching under the JRPG tag instead of the RPG tag. Would it really restore the honor of glorious Nippon if you swapped the “JRPG” tag with some new term of your choosing?

As for JRPGs being compared unfavorably to WRPGs? Yeah no shit. There was a period where so many JRPG series either shit the bed or died off completely, and established JRPG studios put out some real turds, at the same time that WRPGs exploded in popularity. Maybe JRPG devs should blame themselves for making trash instead of whining about how the name of their genre was starting to gain a negative connotation.

They’d be better off embracing the name and owning it instead of whining about it.

And the funniest part is, whenever there’s a year stacked with quality JRPGs, we get the same people (probably you’re one of them) celebrating it as a great year for JRPG fans and heralding a new JRPG golden age. They’re not saying “h-h-hey guys this is a great year for RPGs in general because JRPG is a meaningless distinction!!”
 
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Punished Miku

Human Rights Subscription Service
A genre can evolve. A game can incorporate elements from multiple genres and not fit neatly into any of them. A series can evolve so much that gamers question whether it still belongs in the same genre as its predecessors. Those things are all going to be true whether the term JRPG exists or not.

If you’re successful in your crusade to abolish “JRPG” then you’re still going to need some other term to replace it, because that is a distinct category that is useful to fans of that genre. If a gamer is searching for something like Persona or Trails in the Sky, they’re searching under the JRPG tag instead of the RPG tag. Would it really restore the honor of glorious Nippon if you swapped the “JRPG” tag with some new term of your choosing?

As for JRPGs being compared unfavorably to WRPGs? Yeah no shit. There was a period where so many JRPG series either shit the bed or died off completely, and established JRPG studios put out some real turds, at the same time that WRPGs exploded in popularity. Maybe JRPG devs should blame themselves for making trash instead of whining about how the name of their genre was starting to gain a negative connotation.

They’d be better off embracing the name and owning it instead of whining about it.

And the funniest part is, whenever there’s a year stacked with quality JRPGs, we get the same people (probably you’re one of them) celebrating it as a great year for JRPG fans and heralding a new JRPG golden age. They’re not saying “h-h-hey guys this is a great year for RPGs in general because JRPG is a meaningless distinction!!”
It's hard to even discuss this with you guys since you have so little of an argument you just resort to weird insults. I don't care about glorious Nippon, and I haven't talked about any great year for JRPGs for a long time now. My argument is that the actual definition just literally doesn't make any sense. You can't define it, because no definition stands up to even the tiniest bit of scrutiny. It's just a bunch of people that all sorta know what they mean and just go along with it even though any attempt to actually define it instantly falls apart.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
He hits on the core issue. If JRPG just means RPG from Japan then Elden Ring does count as much as any modern WRPG action open world game counts.

If JRPG means old retro game with turn based battles and menus, then by definition it is only going to refer to a limited scope of retro game and will always fall behind the biggest WRPGs. No one says that Witcher isn't a WRPG just because it's not a top down CRPG with menus like Baldur's Gate or Wizardry. But people say Elden Ring isn't a JRPG, so the label "JRPG" is a pigeon holed nonsense term that only refers to small retro games for the most part. Even western games like Sea of Stars get called JRPGs, despite being made in Canada.

This whole term needs to die. It's a completely lopsided set of definitions if WRPG can be action TPS games like Mass Effect, but JRPGs have to be retro games. The retro games will always come up short. People are so confused they even call stuff like Dragon's Dogma a WRPG sometimes. Just totally confused and useless terminology at this point that mostly just promotes the sterotype that JRPGs haven't evolved or remained competitive, because by definition when they do evolve, they're no longer JRPGs apparently.
People use it to say that "if it looks anime, then it's a JRPG", labelling games like Scarlet Nexus in the genre when it's actually a hack & slash game.

By mere definition, Dark Souls, Elden Ring, etc. are JRPG, people that say they don't look japanese seems to not get how japanese those games feel, the games are not JRPG because of "some arbitrary criteria", they are JRPG because are made in Japan, what people see in those games that "look JRPG" is just the Japanese idiosyncrasy in them, which can be definitely felt in Dark Souls and Co., the fact they don't look anime or don't have a specific combat style means nothing, Tales of Phantasia is from SNES era and it was still considered a JRPG.

Games are not "inferior" for being labelled JRPGs, pals, you can call them for what they are based on the sole common factor they share: They are made in Japan and have japanese essence in them.

Therefore, those new indie RPGs that emulates JRPGs are NOT JRPGs, I mean, we can just call them RPGs, I do even for those made in Japan since they are flavors of the same banquet.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Part of me wishes they would continue Trails forever, but I also understand the desire to do something new. In any case, I wish them the best. Nihon Falcom is one of my favorite developers.
Wait, did they finish this long running serie? That would be awesome, because it put me down that there are so many games on it and still the story never ended
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Exactly.


It's not that the genre CAN have only a type of art style, it's that it usually does. "Anime/manga" is also a BROAD definition that comes with TONS of internal variations.

And like with ANY genre defitinitions, you basically can't pick a single characteristic where there isn't an exception OR an overlap with other genres, but overall when you start to pile up the various aspects that make the experience you can clearly tell which is which.
No one ever fucking struggled to give a glance to Ys or Trails in the Sky and conclude "Yep, they are both JRPGs even if they play different".


Flashy, abstract, stylish and (ONCE AGAIN) with anime aesthetic vs grounded, gritty, realistic and with animations that (for the most part) wouldn't be particularly out of place in something more simulative.



See above.


Character creation, class selection, high customization, gradual progression curve vs set protagonist who's a young hero (but in the case of XVI admittedly older than usual) and exponential explosion in power with stats etc (the good old "start the game at 29 HP, end it at 9999HP" etc).


They have typically an explosive power curve, where you are constantly replacing gear with other that is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful on the numeric scale (letting alone special properties that may come as a bonus).
In the Souls-like/Elden Ring on the other hand every weapon or piece of equipment is a viable one all the way through the ending, upgrades are the main driving force behind your increase in power and even then the gap between a level 1 starting character and a end game one is FAR more narrow. You can be surrounded by a group of early-game enemies in the end game of a Souls-like and still consider them a relative threat to your life, while end-game Cloud could go AFK confident that no level 5 enemies will ever be able to touch him (if the game was real-time or progressed in fast forward on its own).
You're literally just describing very standard japanese way of doing media entertainment, the only reason you see that so commonly in RPGs from japan is because, well, it's made by japanese people in Japan, mainly for japanese audience lol
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Do you also get all worked up that technically Super Mario Bros. is a role playing game because you play the role of Mario? You are getting hung up on the literal definitions of the words. It’s the name of a genre, that is all.

And BTW I think the reason the “JRPG” label has stuck around is largely because there are FANS of this genre who like this style of games and actively seek out games that fall under this category. Not because of ignorant gaijins trying to denigrate and pigeonhole those cartoony weeb games into some lesser genre.

I search for JRPGs when I’m in the mood for something like Final Fantasy, Xenoblade, Persona, Ys, etc. Not when I’m the mood for freaking Dragon’s Dogma or Elden Ring.

It’s a useful category to have. And if you somehow managed to convince the entire gaming community to switch to your new definition of “JRPG” then you’d still need to come up with some other term to refer to what the rest of us currently understand “JRPG” to mean.
"Role" in a RPG means basically refers to classes, not to "roleplay" as in "acting like X"
 

Sentenza

Gold Member
You're literally just describing very standard japanese way of doing media entertainment, the only reason you see that so commonly in RPGs from japan is because, well, it's made by japanese people in Japan, mainly for japanese audience lol
And you are missing the fact that these very recognizable characteristics defining the subgenre at this point are recognizable even in games NOT made in Japan, which is precisely why the term "JRPG" these days extend outside of the literal meaning of the terms and we have COUNTLESS "JRPGs" of western origin (Chthulhu saves the world, Sea of Stars, Chained Echoes, etc, etc).

Which throws in the air your entire argument of "It's just because Japan".
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
And you are missing the fact that these very recognizable characteristics defining the subgenre at this point are recognizable even in games NOT made in Japan, which is precisely why the term "JRPG" these days extend outside of the literal meaning of the terms and we have COUNTLESS "JRPGs" of western origin (Chthulhu saves the world, Sea of Stars, Chained Echoes, etc, etc).

Which throws in the air your entire argument of "It's just because Japan".
What is that exactly? Don't tell me art style because they look clearly westernized manga style lol... Manga isn't a single style tho, but just the way Japanese comic books. Also, that would put almost any Final Fantasy game post PSX out of it... Or do you mean something else?

BTW, do you watch anime, read manga, play Japanese games and hear japanese music very requently like it being by far most of your entertainment? Just out of curiosity.
 

Sentenza

Gold Member
BTW, do you watch anime, read manga, play Japanese games and hear japanese music very requently like it being by far most of your entertainment? Just out of curiosity.
Yes AND no.
I do all these things but not to the degree where I sanctified them above any other type of media of other nationalities I consume.

I've read countless manga (and webtoon's and comics of every nationality in general). I've watched countless anime (and other types of animation and movies and TV shows of any nationality).

I neither vilify or idolize Japanese content above the rest, but I'm more than familiar enough with it to be in a position where I surely don't need for you to explain to me "how it works".

Is there an actual point you were trying to make with this question?

P.S. on a side note, while I pointed that manga and anime art can come in many different forms *before* you repeated it to me (somehow with the pretense of teaching me something) you are absolutely deluding yourself if you are attempting to argue that there's even just a single Final Fantasy out there without an EASILY classifiable "anime style".

Even the outlier FFIX with its "chibi" characters was clearly recognizable as part of the genre.
 
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Darkmakaimura

Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
That is: probably has a bear assblasting you, politics, multiple choices and zero consequences, RGB ending, politics, forced sex scenes that are totally for mature audiences trust me bro, boring combat, politics, etc.
The Trails series is very political, FWIW, and that is about as Japanese of a role-playing game that you can get.
 

Kataploom

Gold Member
Yes AND no.
I do all these things but not to the degree where I sanctified them above any other type of media of other nationalities I consume.

I've read countless manga (and webtoon's and comics of every nationality in general). I've watched countless anime (and other types of animation and movies and TV shows of any nationality).

I neither vilify or idolize Japanese content above the rest, but I'm more than familiar enough with it to be in a position where I surely don't need for you to explain to me "how it works".

Is there an actual point you were trying to make with this question?

P.S. on a side note, while I pointed that manga and anime art can come in many different forms *before* you repeated it to me (somehow with the pretense of teaching me something) you are absolutely deluding yourself if you are attempting to argue that there's even just a single Final Fantasy out there without an EASILY classifiable "anime style".

Even the outlier FFIX with its "chibi" characters was clearly recognizable as part of the genre.
I ask because to people really into anime/manga it's pretty obvious the elements present in japanese games (be them RPG or not) comes from there, so it's not that the games have those elements because of some sub-genre, it's just that they're japanese and that's the way they do stuff, that's only my point, and I'll leave it here since it will take us nowhere anyway lol.
 

YeulEmeralda

Linux User
Childhood is wanting to play "mature" games.

Adulthood is knowing games about cute girls doing cute things is superior.
 

FewRope

Member
Falcom truly had a "shit the bed" moment with the Cold Steel saga (and made the series super popular, gotta admit that) so in retrospective the defence of the JRPG term fits well with his current philosophy
 
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