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Kotaku has been blacklisted by Bethesda Softworks and Ubisoft

D

Deleted member 10571

Unconfirmed Member
duders his name is "Schreier".

Never will understand how Americans can't wrap their head around ei's :D
 

Zefah

Gold Member
Jan 7, 2007
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I keep seeing people repeat this meme and hearing people regurgigate it on podcasts, but when I originally read the article I didn't get this impression that Kotaku is "salty" at all. Totilo's post is very level-headed and clearly explains that he's divulging this information because his readers are asking him why their coverage for certain games is late or nonexistent.

Sure he dives into a lot more detail beyond that, but none of it is "salty".


It's almost as if....people who haven't read the article are sharing opinions about what they think it says???

That's usually how it goes, though, right? Even the most level-headed explanation of the situation will be taken as "whining" by some group of people.
 

EpicBox

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Mar 18, 2015
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If you rely on access from game companies to create content, your content is no real news.

I forget who said this but:

News is something that someone somewhere doesn't want people to hear. Everything else is advertising.

1. The real news is therefore the sort of content most likely to get someone blacklisted.
2. The content that comes from access provided by game companies is basically free advertising for them.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
44,639
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I keep seeing people repeat this meme and hearing people regurgigate it on podcasts, but when I originally read the article I didn't get this impression that Kotaku is "salty" at all. Totilo's post is very level-headed and clearly explains that he's divulging this information because his readers are asking him why their coverage for certain games is late or nonexistent.

Sure he dives into a lot more detail beyond that, but none of it is "salty".


It's almost as if....people who haven't read the article are sharing opinions about what they think it says???

Every single person I've seen that has said this is Kotaku "complaining" also appears to have some personal vendetta against them; formed from opinions made like 5 years ago.

Yes. Or, you know, about one year ago. Like, when one infamous internet movement started and occupied a reddit site with "Kotaku" in the name.

It's not even a "personal vendetta" but more like following the choir without even having an actual own opinion.

That's usually how it goes, though, right? Even the most level-headed explanation of the situation will be taken as "whining" by some group of people.

Par for the course in our conditioned society of red vs. blue picking teams mentality. Most people like to think they are free thinkers, that is the funny part, yet they (we sometimes, I have been guilty of this, but humbly accept correction) fall right in line with the social conditioning and cognitive dissonance.

My favorite shit, was Jim Sterling. Normally like his rants, but come the fuck on dude, did you really have to put a disclaimer in the beginning like people do when they say, "I am not racist, but..." Where is your spine? It is not even needed. You afraid of the e-nerd backlash? Stand for something, goodness.

If you rely on access from game companies to create content, your content is no real news.

I forget who said this but:

News is something that someone somewhere doesn't want people to hear. Everything else is advertising.

1. The real news is therefore the sort of content most likely to get someone blacklisted.
2. The content that comes from access provided by game companies is basically free advertising for them.

Great post.
 

Ralemont

not me
Mar 26, 2014
7,293
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This reminds me of when Tiger Woods' camp invited Charles Pierce to go around with him for a bit during the height of his popularity, not realizing that Pierce is actually a journalist and not someone who just writes puff pieces. Anyway, Woods was telling vulgar jokes all day thinking they were off the record:

There is no place in the gospel of the church of Tiger Woods for jokes like this one:

Why do two lesbians always get where they’re going faster than two gay guys?

Because the lesbians are always going sixty-nine.

Is that blasphemous?

Is it?

It is an interesting question, one that was made sharper when Tiger looked at me and said, “Hey, you can’t write this.”

“Too late,” I told him, and I was dead serious, but everybody laughed because everybody knows there’s no place in the gospel of Tiger for these sorts of jokes.

Misunderstanding the role of the press seems to happen more often than it should. They are not there to be your buddies; or they shouldn't be. They are there to inform the public, end of line. Journalists and people in the industry can be friends of course, but because they enjoy and respect one another's person, not because of professional favors.
 

Star Falcon

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Jul 14, 2012
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Honestly, working in the industry i've had journalists email me trying to get a scoop when they sniff drama or hear rumours. They're like vultures at times. Sure, report on stuff that gets announced but don't try and go beneath the table if you want to keep dignity.

Kotaku can just fuck off in general - googled 'Bloodborne DLC' earlier to look up the price and first result is a massive fucking spoiler from Kotaku.
 

jschreier

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Jan 6, 2011
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If you rely on access from game companies to create content, your content is no real news.

I forget who said this but:



1. The real news is therefore the sort of content most likely to get someone blacklisted.
2. The content that comes from access provided by game companies is basically free advertising for them.
I think this is a reductive way of looking at the press. When Obsidian gives me access to visit their studio and sit down with their CEO, it can lead to a great story that benefits both them and my readers. When Bethesda offers up Todd Howard for interviews, it can lead to some insightful articles about game development. Again, beneficial for both readers and the company involved.

That said, we can do our jobs just fine without access, as Kotaku has proven over the past few years with Ubisoft and Bethesda. Plus, the access I'm most interested in -- behind-the-scenes looks at how game-makers work -- is very rare in the video game industry to begin with. But this goes beyond just preview events and review copies, neither of which are necessary to us.
 

Revas

Member
May 12, 2014
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I think this is a reductive way of looking at the press. When Obsidian gives me access to visit their studio and sit down with their CEO, it can lead to a great story that benefits both them and my readers. When Bethesda offers up Todd Howard for interviews, it can lead to some insightful articles about game development. Again, beneficial for both readers and the company involved.

That said, we can do our jobs just fine without access, as Kotaku has proven over the past few years with Ubisoft and Bethesda. Plus, the access I'm most interested in -- behind-the-scenes looks at how game-makers work -- is very rare in the video game industry to begin with. But this goes beyond just preview events and review copies, neither of which are necessary to us.
Agreed as long as access doesn't compromise the journalistic integrity of the outlet.
 

pompidu

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Feb 2, 2011
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He uses the word "galling" in regards to being blacklisted so this is more panderng for woo is me. That is the issue with this article, once I read that I realized this article is more about bitching that explaining the situation at hand. If you leak shit,realize that you can be blacklisted. This is not something new. The choose who to do business with, and kotaku is well aware of that situation and now try to excert some social pressure to the companies. I'm not saying they should of been blacklisted, but it does them well not to be bitter about it.
 

Quote

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Aug 11, 2009
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Honestly, working in the industry i've had journalists email me trying to get a scoop when they sniff drama or hear rumours. They're like vultures at times. Sure, report on stuff that gets announced but don't try and go beneath the table if you want to keep dignity.

Kotaku can just fuck off in general - googled 'Bloodborne DLC' earlier to look up the price and first result is a massive fucking spoiler from Kotaku.
They fixed it as soon as someone complained. Chill.
 

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
12,049
6,665
1,365
That said, we can do our jobs just fine without access, as Kotaku has proven over the past few years with Ubisoft and Bethesda.

By the same token, by withdrawing access and cooperation Ubi and Bethesda have simply decided that they can do their business just fine without dealing with Kotaku.

The difference is, it was Kotaku who went public about this failed relationship and attempted to leverage this non-story to their own advantage.
 

Kite

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Jun 20, 2007
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jschreier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2zaW1sQg0M

Any comment on the TotalBiscuit video about this story? I don't read your site much anymore, but one of your writers is known for writing "gotcha" articles about game companies being sexist/anti-women sounds a more believable reason for the site being blacklisted then leaking game info.. which has been going on since the beginning of time.
 

jschreier

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Jan 6, 2011
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jschreier

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2zaW1sQg0M

Any comment on the TotalBiscuit video about this story? I don't read your site much anymore, but one of your writers is known for writing "gotcha" articles about game companies being sexist/anti-women sounds a more believable reason for the site being blacklisted then leaking game info.. which has been going on since the beginning of time.
I haven't watched the video and can't right now but I saw that Nathan's article from E3 2014 has become a Gamergate talking point in the wake of Ubisoft's blacklisting. Unfortunately for that narrative, the timing doesn't work out: They sent us copies of AC Unity among other games that fall, which you may remember, because it was Unity that led Stephen to declare that Kotaku will no longer agree to embargoes that go up after a game is already out.
 

A Bomb

Neo Member
Oct 7, 2014
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jschreier
one of your writers is known for writing "gotcha" articles about game companies being sexist/anti-women sounds a more believable reason for the site being blacklisted then leaking game info.. which has been going on since the beginning of time.

How on earth do you figure that? The leaks Kotaku got their hands on were extensive. Uncovering Unity with images almost a year in advance, publishing script pages from Fallout 4 at least a year before it was even announced, among other things (he lists most of them in the article). Not to mention troubled working conditions in several companies over the years.

Blacklisting is not new, it used to be mainly over reviews though. It hasn't been until around the past decade that game sites have really started working to uncover things publishers don't want you to know about. And that's a good thing. That's actual journalism. It drives me mad to see people who want ethics and journalism call Kotaku 'a bunch of whiners' just because they disclosed this situation.
 
Feb 13, 2013
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By the same token, by withdrawing access and cooperation Ubi and Bethesda have simply decided that they can do their business just fine without dealing with Kotaku.

The difference is, it was Kotaku who went public about this failed relationship and attempted to leverage this non-story to their own advantage.

This is my takeaway as well.
 

FX-GMC

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Apr 25, 2014
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By the same token, by withdrawing access and cooperation Ubi and Bethesda have simply decided that they can do their business just fine without dealing with Kotaku.

The difference is, it was Kotaku who went public about this failed relationship and attempted to leverage this non-story to their own advantage.

I don't see how this scenario would've worked any different. One is a site for releasing gaming related news* the other is a machine meant to churn out a product and make a profit. Which side do you think is going to tell the story?

Is it your opinion that the information should've been kept private?

I personally am glad to have learned about the situation. My opinions on who is right and who is wrong don't matter in that regard.

*If i learned something I didn't know before, it was news to me.
 

brau

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Sep 29, 2014
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2zaW1sQg0M

Any comment on the TotalBiscuit video about this story?

TB always with a well backed up opinion that i can relate and agree with.

Pro consumer.. i guess he is way better at writing and presenting his argument than i am. Since this is the basic idea of me saying that reveals should be a cooperative effort between the publishers and journalists. Obviously, i get a barrage of "disappointment" for believing that there is a time and a place for this. Knowing very well that the media should never be a glorified PR or succumb to whatever games want them to say. Everyone is in their clear position and right to write and post and divulge anything that you want. But as a journalist there are clear things that you should consider before releasing a piece of information. I am sure people that have studied the career would have more insight into this and understand what are the goals of a piece and its integrity.

The article talks about leaks of the nature being the cause of the blacklist. So its not out of this world to consider the argument given. Also, i should be clear to say that a blacklist is childish and even when i don't agree with it. I guess people are in their right to do what they want with their source work. Deciding not to share that information is well within their rights as well as Kotakus right to publish anything else. Playing a role of a consequence or victim might seem as an attempt to manipulate the outcome to gain sympathy.

I'll finish watching the rest of TB video later.
 

Dio Brando

Banned
Jan 13, 2013
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Salvador, Bahia, Brazil.
TB always with a well backed up opinion that i can relate and agree with.

Pro consumer.. i guess he is way better at writing and presenting his argument than i am. Since this is the basic idea of me saying that reveals should be a cooperative effort between the publishers and journalists. Obviously, i get a barrage of "disappointment" for believing that there is a time and a place for this. Knowing very well that the media should never be a glorified PR or succumb to whatever games want them to say. Everyone is in their clear position and right to write and post and divulge anything that you want. But as a journalist there are clear things that you should consider before releasing a piece of information. I am sure people that have studied the career would have more insight into this and understand what are the goals of a piece and its integrity.

The article talks about leaks of the nature being the cause of the blacklist. So its not out of this world to consider the argument given. Also, i should be clear to say that a blacklist is childish and even when i don't agree with it. I guess people are in their right to do what they want with their source work. Deciding not to share that information is well within their rights as well as Kotakus right to publish anything else. Playing a role of a consequence or victim might seem as an attempt to manipulate the outcome to gain sympathy.

I'll finish watching the rest of TB video later.
I mostly agree with you, and generally with TB(the only things i don't agree with him is his middle of the fence opinion on GG).
I would say that it's not that there are goals per se on pieces. It's more about a set of rules. I mean, It's not that what Kotaku does with leaks are unethical or anything, it's just that it's something i, as an individual wouldn't do, unless it's those cases i described earlier... although to be fair, from reading the original article of AC Vic a bit better, it could've been one of those cases, even if it does a lot of "if's". But like TB says, one shouldn't really be surprised with the blacklist, even if you're actually doing the right thing.
so yeah, Kotaku did the right thing, but should've have saw what was coming, even if it's a childish thing for a company to do.

Well, the set of rules would be part of the goal of the journalist and the community they are a part of. no? Having those in mind then you can serve following a standard.
Oh, yes, journalism in general. When a site/magazine/etc publishes a piece, it's obviously has an intent/objetive. to elucidate something, to tell how things really are, etc. what i meant is that journalism is more about standards, like you said. Not talking about suicide, that kind of stuff.
All in all, i really think that the problem with game journalism, that affects technology sites in a similar way, is because of how product based it is, which riles up companies to do blacklisting when disagreements or leaking happens.
 

brau

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Sep 29, 2014
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I mostly agree with you, and generally with TB(the only things i don't agree with him is his middle of the fence opinion on GG).
I would say that it's not that there are goals per se on pieces. It's more about a set of rules. I mean, It's not that what Kotaku does with leaks are unethical or anything, it's just that it's something i, as an individual wouldn't do, unless it's those cases i described earlier... although to be fair, from reading the original article of AC Vic a bit better, it could've been one of those cases, even if it does a lot of "if's". But like TB says, one shouldn't really be surprised with the blacklist, even if you're actually doing the right thing.
so yeah, Kotaku did the right thing, but should've have saw what was coming, even if it's a childish thing for a company to do.

Well, the set of rules would be part of the goal of the journalist and the community they are a part of. no? Having those in mind then you can serve following a standard.
 

Vegito

Banned
Jun 3, 2015
317
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did someone say get rekt son?
 

Eusis

Member
Apr 15, 2011
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That might be appropriate if they got the full story scoop on Fallout 4 and decided to make a headline screaming
your son is stolen from you, becomes head of Institute before you leave the Vault
(atlernatively, whatever nonsense AC has but does anyone care about that anymore? On the level of frothing at the mouth about spoilers anyway.)

However, they have a much better example in how they went and spoiled the end twist of MGS4 right as the game came out. But perhaps the person who wrote that learned since then or has left Kotaku, and at any rate it's not the fairest to hold against a publication something that happened 7 years ago (hahahaha fuck where did the time go.)
 

Pikma

Banned
Mar 4, 2009
23,427
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Because posting random spoilers of a movie in the comments section just to screw people is the same as publishing well researched articles about upcoming video games for people interested in such info...
 

jschreier

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Jan 6, 2011
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did someone say get rekt son?
You're not very bright, are you?

Incidentally, in 2013 when I posted the Fallout 4 casting scripts that were leaked to me, I had pages detailing how
your spouse is murdered and your son is kidnapped
, but I chose not to post them because I didn't want to spoil the story of the game for anyone.
 

Altered Juice

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Apr 6, 2013
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as someone who has never seen star wars i gotta say that spoiler must be some juicy shit! haven't run into any myself but supposedly people in final fantasy xiv(mmo) are spoiling the movie in populated areas :x and people are sending messages across psn and xbox live.
 

Par Score

Member
Dec 6, 2014
3,279
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You're not very bright, are you?

Incidentally, in 2013 when I posted the Fallout 4 casting scripts that were leaked to me, I had pages detailing how
your spouse is murdered and your son is kidnapped
, but I chose not to post them because I didn't want to spoil the story of the game for anyone.

Jason, you have the patience of a saint, and it's disappointing you have to put up with shitposts like that here.