John Caboose
Member
Hahaha, damn son.
Oh lord. "They didn't pay me they just did this and this and oh, well I guess they did..."
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Kotaku has been blacklisted by Bethesda Softworks and Ubisoft
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Hahaha, damn son.
Oh lord. "They didn't pay me they just did this and this and oh, well I guess they did..."
I'd argue every news outlet (national outlet, anyways) does exactly this. CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, etc. They all spin everything to fit their narrative or agenda based on the party they represent most even as they deny they represent any party at all.
But I can get along with your point here - regardless of what we think of national news chains, comparing Kotaku to them isn't really fair to Kotaku because then were acting like their actual news reporting has some sort of agenda. I read their video game news at times, there isn't much there to draw on that conclusion.
They are closer to being like TMZ than Fox news. Though, under their current EiC, they have gotten a lot better.
But not Kotaku, which is the point. And you have no reason to believe that Kotaku approached anyone and convinced them to find and leak information, so you're basing your entire argument that it's black-and-white unethical off of baseless speculation. Which is itself unethical.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Exactly this.
LOL mainstream media (which is owned now by 6-8 large corporations [over 700 private organizations in the 60's], who fund their candidate of interest campaign):
That is not Kotaku... at all. They have no "horse in the race". It was a dumb comparison. ]
LudicrousSpeed
Member
If a journalist gets information that they know has been disclosed despite breaking an NDA, that is not at all illegal. Where it becomes illegal is if the journalist induces the leaker to leak the information.
Scenario A: Journalist gets buddy-buddy with someone they know to have insider information. Journalist repeatedly asks source for protected information, gets them drunk hoping they'll let something slip, and presses for protected information.
Scenario B: Journalist knows someone who has insider information. Person with insider information decides to break their NDA and offer the information to the journalist. Journalist knows information was covered under an NDA.
Scenario A involves the journalist doing something illegal. Scenario B does not.
You're right that Bethesda doesn't have a case against Kotaku because they can't identify the leaker, but that's because without identifying the leaker, they have no way of investigating whether or not Kotaku was attempting to induce a violation of the NDA. If Bethesda knew the identity of the leaker, but could also find no evidence that Kotaku was attempting to induce the NDA violation, they would have no case despite knowing the source. At best, they could threaten a lawsuit in hopes that the journalist settles because they don't have the resources to defend themselves. In short, a lawsuit as bully tactic.
You do seem to be aware of this detail since you're talking in terms like "knowingly induce", but you're entirely discounting the scenario that the information was disclosed without the journalist inducing it.
Meat and potatoes stuff would be covered by things like the Nintendo Treehouse and Iwata Asks type stuff.
It's already moving that way anyway.
Additionally, there will always be sites that play ball. But instead of all sites existing in a quasi-marketing quasi-adversarial role, users get a clear delineation between sites that work with pubs to help market their wares and those that don't. And the blacklist makes it official.
cjp
Junior Member
Is that a real thing? I have never heard of this before.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Green Yoshi
Member
This would only work in the pre-internet era.
Exactly this.
LOL mainstream media (which is owned now by 6-8 large corporations [over 700 private organizations in the 60's], who fund their candidate of interest campaign):
That is not Kotaku... at all. They have no "horse in the race". It was a dumb comparison. ]
That's an incredibly dumb graphic and I would suggest you never use it again.
striferser
Huge Nickleback Fan
I agree with this post because i've been in similar position.
I'm not going to hold a grudge or anything to any media that did it. But if they defend their leak as 'ethic in journalism', especially for something petty as leaked screenshot of game in WiP condition i will laugh at their face.
Don't get me wrong, i still consider leaks is still necessary in the right condition, especially if its related to to something that might endanger or unfair toward company employee or public. Now that is what i call good leak since it attempt to correct unfairness that occur.
Leaking a wip game in progress is honestly petty, so is the company blacklisting media that did it. It just ain't worth it in a long run.
I also add that i enjoy reading leak as well, but i won't defend myself as doing something ethical. So yeah... my feeling on this is neutral. Just my 2cents
The_Endgamer
Member
kotaku deserve every right to be innocent until proven guilty to have leaked information.
as a professional actor who has to sign NDAs tho? if you're dumb enough to breach contract, you don't deserve the next job or the sympathy of the people giving you good will.
as a professional actor who has to sign NDAs tho? if you're dumb enough to breach contract, you don't deserve the next job or the sympathy of the people giving you good will.
yurinka
Member
Yes, it's a trade secret.
A public company has a game scheduled to be announced later in the road. This IP use to sell very well, so it's likely they agreed with a 1st party to announce in a 1st party conference (E3 or similar), a marketing deal, a console bundle and/or exclusive DLC.
The game is leaked once the previous chapter in the series was suffering a lot of criticism due to its unpolished state and being milked too frequently. Both the IP and the company get extra criticism for being working in another game instead of fixing the previous one, and because the new one doesn't look as hot as it should.
But both the game info and the assets weren't ready to be revealed and weren't shown in the most impactful, positive way, so the powerful marketing weapon that is the game announcement and hype campaign is lost.
Company and brand image get extra damaged and the company loses the marketing deal with the 1st party. So the company has to pay all the marketing, doesn't reach powerful 1st party marketing channels and the game sells way less because of the leak. This IP is the main one from the company, so the company stocks go down. Companies have secrets, NDA and communicate their stuff through PR and marketing to make sure it's communicated properly and in the proper moment.
When Kotaku leaks AC, Fallout, etc. stuff is damaging these companies. And people who leaked the stuff were likely fired. It's laughable considere it "journalism" as if they were discovering the Watergate to the people. Players could have waited some months to get the same stuff, Kotaku just did it to get clicks.
Clockwork5
Member
From your perspective.
Obviously, not from the perspective of Ubisoft or Bethesda.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That's fucking dumb and we're allowed to think so.
This, totally.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Because of Schrier; I read Kotaku a good deal more now than I have in 10 years. They are not the toilet they used to be. Bethesda and Ubisoft are trash.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
Sounds like the harm here was caused by the developers making a bad game and not dealing with it properly, not anything due to Kotaku.
The fact that people think "Kotaku leaked <X>" shows that people are still assigning the wrong blame.
Kotaku isn't leaking anything. Employees are leaking information.
Kotaku would only be leaking this if they got information under embargo and divulged the information breaking their NDA.
Kotaku reported on information that was leaked to them. If they didn't report on it, some other outlet would have.
By the time a shitty employee decides that they want to leak information, consider it leaked. Whether to Kotaku, or Polygon, or Gamespot or otherwise.
At that point, Kotaku has to decide "Will we report on the information someone else leaked, or will some other outlet?"
Kotaku isn't leaking anything. Employees are leaking information.
Kotaku would only be leaking this if they got information under embargo and divulged the information breaking their NDA.
Kotaku reported on information that was leaked to them. If they didn't report on it, some other outlet would have.
By the time a shitty employee decides that they want to leak information, consider it leaked. Whether to Kotaku, or Polygon, or Gamespot or otherwise.
At that point, Kotaku has to decide "Will we report on the information someone else leaked, or will some other outlet?"
Jim Sterling on the Kotaku Blacklisting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeL34nbEo8s&feature=youtu.be
Exactly right. And the only reason people are attempting the argument that Kotaku did something 'wrong' is due to the death grip the major publishers have on games media. It would be preposterous to control the news in other industries, yet people are giving Kotaku crap for reporting a leak and supporting the blacklisting.
At this point, being blacklisted and frowned upon by publishers should be a badge of honor, given how uncomfortably close some are.
Pathfinder
Member
I like it. He makes a lot of excellent points.
Agreed.
tearsintherain
Member
Boogie also posted a video about the Kotaku blacklist stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Ll7h85-78
tl;dr: Boogie himself was blacklisted by Kotaku for not speaking against the gamergate stuff so he finds it ironic that they are complaining about being blacklisted. He also mentions neogaf and how he conducted himself poorly here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Ll7h85-78
tl;dr: Boogie himself was blacklisted by Kotaku for not speaking against the gamergate stuff so he finds it ironic that they are complaining about being blacklisted. He also mentions neogaf and how he conducted himself poorly here.
Right, except for the fact that Boogie was never blacklisted by Kotaku. He and I talked privately and he has since apologized: https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/668550831201906688
Quote
Member
What I really want is just someone to put me in the shoes of the publisher.
It would do him well to hold off on these rants and consider if this is actually good for... well anyone.
The whole "I don't even like Kotaku, but..." thing is kind of annoying. Does it even add much to the conversation that you agree with something you don't like normally? His points are stellar otherwise.
Yep, then he posted this: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sntig8
It would do him well to hold off on these rants and consider if this is actually good for... well anyone.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Dude's the biggest drama queen ever, holy shit. Why anyone pays attention to his sad, deluded rantings is beyond me.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Aren't they satirical?
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Context doesn't go away just because you bold part of a quote.
The Francis ones are, but at this point he's probably nearly as famous for his normal persona too.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Gotcha.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Their perspective is that their audience are sheep that need to be led from hype cycle to hype cycle by carefully crafted media narratives, rather than letting the games in already popular series speak for themselves.
It's a condemnation of the
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
My only "real" interaction with him has been on GAF during the height of Gamergate. Dude came off as extremely insecure and unstable.
Yeah with the stuff he said about regretting his conduct on these forums that seems to be a recurring theme.
I mean, if you sat down and thought about it for a few minutes you'd realise accusing Kotaku of blacklisting him (even if he sheepishly walks it back later and days that's not what happened) during the past week was probably going to elicit exactly the response he says he wanted to avoid.
Starfield
Member
I think this Comment is trash
MrJoobJoob
Member
How can a game journo site even "blacklist" a person? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
People give Kotaku crap because theyre only making a story about this because theyre getting cut out of the loop. Kotaku isn't doing anything on principle here, they just salty. MAYBE if they were acting in such a manner that made it obvious they were against the embargos and courting of games writers instead of just being pouty that theyre not in the club anymore people would have a different opinion about them at the moment.
I keep seeing people repeat this meme and hearing people regurgigate it on podcasts, but when I originally read the article I didn't get this impression that Kotaku is "salty" at all. Totilo's post is very level-headed and clearly explains that he's divulging this information because his readers are asking him why their coverage for certain games is late or nonexistent.
Sure he dives into a lot more detail beyond that, but none of it is "salty".
It's almost as if....people who haven't read the article are sharing opinions about what they think it says???
You. I like you.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Edit:misread your question, ignore this reply.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Every single person I've seen that has said this is Kotaku "complaining" also appears to have some personal vendetta against them; formed from opinions made like 5 years ago.
D
Deleted member 10571
Unconfirmed Member
Yes. Or, you know, about one year ago. Like, when one infamous internet movement started and occupied a reddit site with "Kotaku" in the name.
It's not even a "personal vendetta" but more like following the choir without even having an actual own opinion.
MrJoobJoob
Member
A little while ago I posted one of Schreier's Destiny stories to the Destiny forum on reddit, and there were dozens of comments that read something to the effect of "first off -- fuck Kotaku. But great article!"
Vigilant Gambit
Member
Jason Schrier is the only good thing to come from LL/ETI