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[Dr Stabbingworth]

What about Radio the Universe? Didn't that generate quite a bit of buzz when the kickstarter first went up? It's been almost two years since it was funded now and the creator's tumblr hasn't been updated since the kickstarter was initially started.

I've seen multiple updates on this, they're just hard to find and the dude is working very slowly. Coincidentally, I decided not to back this because of these exact concerns and a lack of previous output.

What about that one from the "8 year old girl" made in RPGMaker? Did that ever deliver?

Nope. There's a thread on GAF about how it was basically a scam but nobody wanted to call out an 8 year old, even though she was questionably involved. I wonder if kotaku will ignore this one on the second pass.

I'm on mobile but search for truth and trolls.

 

[Xater]

Am I reading correctly that The Stomping Land is back on Steam? How did that happen?

I just checked and you are right. How is that even possible? That game has no business being on Steam anymore.

 

[SystemUser]

I've seen multiple updates on this, they're just hard to find and the dude is working very slowly. Coincidentally, I decided not to back this because of these exact concerns and a lack of previous output.



Nope. There's a thread on GAF about how it was basically a scam but nobody wanted to call out an 8 year old, even though she was questionably involved. I wonder if kotaku will ignore this one on the second pass.

I'm on mobile but search for truth and trolls.

You can download the game and play it. Good thing you answered the question without checking or even reading the rest of this thread.

http://www.truthandtrolls.com/

 

[ArjanN]

Ah yeah, I see it makes more sense now

In general, I think if you have a discerning eye, it's pretty obvious which kickstarters will succeed in delivering their product and which will not.

If you have a developer with

A) No history
B) No major shipped products
C) promises from here to the moon
D) a ridiculously tiny budget (i.e. "we're going to out-do GTAV on 1/100th the budget!")
E) No functional prototype

they're not going to deliver, save your money.

Pretty much, of course even then nothing's guaranteed of course. In the end you should always still think of it more as a donation than a pre-order.

But, hell, in the last month I've backed:

Night Cry
Starr Mazer
Steel Assault
Shadowrun Hong Kong
Strength of the Sword
Drift Stage
Strafe

and I'm not really worried about any of those.

Also, like 4 of my top 10 games of last year were kickstarter projects.

 

[Grief.exe]

I just checked and you are right. How is that even possible? That game has no business being on Steam anymore.

Apparently the developer contacted Steam, got the game reinstated, pushed a small patch, then subsequently disappeared again.

 

[Dr Stabbingworth]

You can download the game and play it. Good thing you answered the question without checking or even reading the rest of this thread.

http://www.truthandtrolls.com/

That's not even close to the truth of the matter. Do some research before trying to call someone out (for not doing research lol).

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=640243

 

[Caronte]

"Clang [Earned: $526,125]
-Note: Was officially canceled last year."

These feeling I have right now, I can't explain them.

That's scary. It's a lot of money for... nothing.

 

[Krejlooc]

Jason, do you have any source to cite for this - that for every Kickstarter success, there are "numerous" failures? You've been sounding this FUD note for a while*, and I don't believe it's borne out by the facts - as Stump's lists indicate.

*case in point:

To be fair, stump's research omits sub $100k projects because they are higher risk.

 

[Mory Dunz]

"Are we living the fancy life yet, Spongebob?"

"Not yet, pally. First we got to spend all the money"

 

[besada]

So far, everything I've backed has come to fruition, with the exception of Harmonix's Amplitude, which is making progress.

 

[GitarooMan]

Figured Two Guys SpaceVenture would be on the list--earliest one I backed without delivering. They're apparently still working on it, but it's higher profile than most of the ones on the list and about the same age.

Yeah, this has been one that's been really, really slow. Wonder if we'll ever see it.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Two Guys Spaceventure is sort of a weird case. On the one hand, they spent the money and they have not produced a game. By that token, they have failed, and if I were a backer I'd be extremely worried about whether I'll ever get my game.

On the other hand, they appear to have a stable funding source and are continuing to work, so as of yet no one has really had any reason to get angry.

There are actually a handful of mid-to-high profile KSes in this boat.

Apologies if this isn't the thread for this, but Hiveswap (the Homestuck Adventure Game) is probably out of the orange by now, since there was a big update earlier this week, with a Spring release date given and a playable demo lined up for GDC and ECCC.

I will probably ease it to yellow at my next update. I normally update every few weeks--the process is partially automated but I still need to actually check and verify what my script tells me so I do batch updates instead of rolling stuff. I'm reluctant to move to either shade of green until the actual day of release because their communication on this project was abhorrent the whole way through, but it does seem like they're finally coming out of the morass, so that's good.

 

[Artorias]

Interesting read. It would be cool to read a more in depth story from a more respectable site but still a good read.

 

[John Kowalski]

I have never backed a Kickstarter to be honest. I don't think i've bought a successful Kickstarter game either...? I'm not sure about that one. Failing a Kickstarter project after is has been funded has to be one of the most horrible business things to go through, especially as both the press and backers become more scrutinous and demanding.

 

[A Black Falcon]

Nirolak, your listing there for my KS investigation is way out of date. Here's the up-to-date link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1lFW2sjShHriYRsyuVZx4Se8Qxjw38VJk4g-7cls8cpg/edit#gid=0

It's the progress status of every 75k+ Kickstarter up to June 2014.

I'd also note, H-Hour is sort of a weird case. The Kickstarter was not for a final game, it was for a demo... but the reward tiers were listed as including the final game. So it was like "I'll give you the full game even ... but I can't guarantee I'll make it, even if I get funded."

As an update on Hero-U, which I mentioned in that other thread of yours, monthly updates continue. They're now talking about doing an additional funding campaign (probably Kickstarter, maybe Indiegogo), while also still saying that the game will be done in October this year; basically, the idea is to not have to borrow as much money as they otherwise will have to for the game, apparently. Either way on this I think the game is going to be finished and released, but whether anything more comes of the theoretical series after that will entirely depend on how well the game does, that's for sure... but he does point out that they'd started assuming a budget of $650,000 and the kickstarter only got ~400,000, and it's been delayed and redesigned on top of that, so it's not too surprising that they'd be looking into more funding.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/1135643 (Comments section has some useful discussion as well)

 

[DiscoJer]

What, no mention of Haunts? That pulled in $28,000 and the developer said he gave up a year ago

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre

I remember because I backed it.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Two Guys Spaceventure is sort of a weird case. On the one hand, they spent the money and they have not produced a game. By that token, they have failed, and if I were a backer I'd be extremely worried about whether I'll ever get my game.

On the other hand, they appear to have a stable funding source and are continuing to work, so as of yet no one has really had any reason to get angry.

There are actually a handful of mid-to-high profile KSes in this boat.

It's a really blurry line isn't it. KS has become a mechanism by which these transitional projects were floated a lifeline instead of a means to actually ship a product. The only thing separating these projects from something that completely fizzled out was proper, outside financing swooping in and salvaging it, but then are they still working for their backers or can the new financing attach new strings that trump KS promises?

 

[MattKeil]

I've backed a fair number of things but Clang is really the only thing that has straight up vanished into thin air.

 

[Hellbender]

I haven't been following it closely, but has a reason ever been given for Sears living H-Hour?

 

[Purple Cheeto]

Poor Lonestar1771 will probably never see an Android version of Football Heroes.

Looks like Moon Intern is also not done after 2 years.

Edit: Moon Intern just got a demo up, 2 years after their KS ended. 2 years for a demo.

 

[ZackieChan]

Jason, do you have any source to cite for this - that for every Kickstarter success, there are "numerous" failures? You've been sounding this FUD note for a while*, and I don't believe it's borne out by the facts - as Stump's lists indicate.

*case in point:

They never do. It's just taken as a given, and I don't know why.

The main thing is that these failures are not the fault of Kickstarter as a platform or crowdfunding as a funding method. Each one comes down to that specific creator being shady, inept or otherwise incapable of delivering on their promises.

 

[Usobuko]

No surprise @ Yogadventures. People who trusted YogsCast folks and that pitch deserved to be burned.

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Why did Sears leave H-Hour?

 

[Sotha_Sil]

I was expecting Project Phoenix and Reborn.

 

[Almighty]

I think some of the ones on that list should fall into the no shit they failed category. Maybe i am just lucky though as all the Kickstarters I have backed have come out and were very good. Though there is one still in development that could go either way, but I knew that one was more risky then the rest.

As an update on Hero-U, which I mentioned in that last thread, monthly updates continue. They're now talking about doing an additional funding campaign (probably Kickstarter, maybe Indiegogo), while also still saying that the game will be done in October this year; basically, the idea is to not have to borrow as much money as they otherwise will have to for the game, apparently. Either way on this I think the game is going to be finished and released, but whether anything more comes of the theoretical series after that will entirely depend on how well the game does, that's for sure... but he does point out that they'd started assuming a budget of $650,000 and the kickstarter only got ~400,000, and it's been delayed and redesigned on top of that, so it's not too surprising that they'd be looking into more funding.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1878147873/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/1135643 (Comments section has some useful discussion as well)

Part of me is glad that circumstances made me have to pull my pledge for Hero-U back in the day, but if I like what they show on the this new Kickstarter I might still take a risk and back them. Either way I hope things work out and the game does well.

 

[Station42]

Yeah what the heck at them claiming they already delivered all the rewards but the space, that sure isn't true! They promised 30 games and appear to have delivered 22 of them by my count, but none of those are the marquis games that were billed here:

Seriously, as far as I can tell, none of the ones in that pic are out. That's kind of why some of us contributed! At least I got my Keita game though. I honestly thought the space itself sounded a bit too pie in the sky to actually happen so I'm not surprised by that result.

We made FOTONICA (bottom right) and we contributed our game to the backers bundle a long time ago. It's called VideoHeroeS.

 

[ZackieChan]

No surprise @ Yogadventures. People who trusted YogsCast folks and that pitch deserved to be burned.

This one was a total clusterfuck. From what I heard, the YogsCast people had no idea what they were doing. Plus, the pitch is unbelievably ambitious.

The Clang one upsets me, because technically the Kickstarter page said they would only be releasing a demo that would be used for further funding. That statement is obfuscated in a huge meandering wall of text and isn't readily apparent, if I recall correctly. The whole thing just seemed shady.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

People who trusted YogsCast folks and that pitch deserved to be burned.

They didn't deserve it, most people are extremely ill-equipped to calculate risk. If they deserve anything it's more accountability from the people who took their money and squandered it.

 

[jholmes]

I certainly want to see more stuff like this where the press looks into Kickstarters, but this list wasn't really where I'd start. We all know where Yogscast and Clang went, and most of the others are like $5,000 projects. There are enough projects that pulled in a ton of money only to be incommunicative and downright combative -- Hat in Time comes to mind -- so I do hope to see more of these.

 

[Labadal]

Bear Simulator KS page
Article about Bear Simulator

 

[CrunchyFrog]

What about Radio the Universe? Didn't that generate quite a bit of buzz when the kickstarter first went up? It's been almost two years since it was funded now and the creator's tumblr hasn't been updated since the kickstarter was initially started.

He's released a dozen or so backer only updates since via Kickstarter, the latest of which was this past December which included a video. Admittedly they're few and far between but the updates are usually fairly substantial and clear showings of progress being made in programming, design, and asset creation. It's a bit past schedule now but it doesn't seem to be in any immediate danger of failure.

 

[Ogimachi]

And Clang is why I don't kickstart games.

I backed Clang and I was disappointed when it was cancelled, but they gave me a full refund, no questions asked.
What made me give up on kickstarter were high-profile projects with vague promises, misleading stretch goals and scams like Elite: Dangerous.

Clang failed completely, but I got all of my money back. Elite: Dangerous was a scam and they gave me a partial refund. Torment sounds less like the original game everyday and PoE has nothing to do with old IE games, yet in both cases a refund was denied.
I just never know what to expect anymore, but as fas Clang goes, I can't really complain.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

One of the real failures or at least seeming deliberate misleading KS's was for Auditorium Duet. Several months after the KS ends it's revealed they were working on an entirely separate project, Splice, which they themselves even admitted they shifted practically all resources toward immediately following the end of the campaign. Duet's release got pushed further and further back, for the better part of a year the only updates were about fucking backer t-shirts. The only substantial evidence that a game exists are small clips of "prototypes" and a supposed behind closed doors demo showed to journalists at a press show this past fall, the specifics of which weren't even shared to backers. The latest update says there will be a demo shown at GDC, but given the fact we missed out on the last one I'm doubtful we'll see anything from this one either. The weekly/monthly/semiregular "dev blog" also promised to specific high level backers hasn't even been updated in months. It's now almost 3 years past the initial projected release date. They claim to have an engine finished and hope to have a release by the end of the year as they now enter the content production stage, but regardless the amount of time it took to deliver is ridiculous and I'll likely not back anything from them in the future should they choose to do so.

 

[FoneBone]

They never do. It's just taken as a given, and I don't know why.

The main thing is that these failures are not the fault of Kickstarter as a platform or crowdfunding as a funding method. Each one comes down to that specific creator being shady, inept or otherwise incapable of delivering on their promises.

So much this. Clearly, when crowdfunding is abused or misused, it needs to be called out. But it strikes me as borderline irresponsible for a journalist to be deriding Kickstarter as a whole for this, and encouraging readers to mistrust crowdfunding altogether.

 

[Deleted member 80556]

disgusting.
Thanks god I've newer backed anything because some kickstarters tend to promise you even the moon

Quite literally too!


Anyway, Stump that is a very nice investigation! Damn good job.

 

[More_Badass]

Ah yeah, I see it makes more sense now

In general, I think if you have a discerning eye, it's pretty obvious which kickstarters will succeed in delivering their product and which will not.

If you have a developer with

A) No history
B) No major shipped products
C) promises from here to the moon
D) a ridiculously tiny budget (i.e. "we're going to out-do GTAV on 1/100th the budget!")
E) No functional prototype

they're not going to deliver, save your money.

A) No history
B) No major shipped products

These I don't agree with. A lot of indie devs fit in that category, making their debut game or coming off freeware releases or jam entries. Projects like Rain World, SuperHOT, Catacomb Kids, Reassembly, etc.

C) promises from here to the moon
D) a ridiculously tiny budget (i.e. "we're going to out-do GTAV on 1/100th the budget!")
E) No functional prototype

But these, yeah, guidelines to follow. I never back campaigns that don't have any gameplay footage. And the over-ambitious everything-but-the-kitchen-sink projects always seem suspect

 

[ZackieChan]

So much this. Clearly, when crowdfunding is abused or misused, it needs to be called out. But it strikes me as borderline irresponsible for a journalist to be deriding Kickstarter as a whole for this, and encouraging readers to mistrust crowdfunding altogether.

The hilarious thing is that the same sites are often hyping up new Kickstarters that sound exciting, while decrying Kickstarter as a platform for the few high-profile failures. It is maddening.

 

[More_Badass]

My only bad KS experience so far was Confederate Express.
http://www.destructoid.com/so-the-confederate-express-developers-might-just-be-scumbags-278807.phtml
http://blog.sfgate.com/techchron/2014/08/21/airbnb-squatters-leave-palm-springs-condo/
Assholes

 

[Aselith]

Bear Simulator KS page
Article about Bear Simulator

http://farjay.com/

The wackiness is too much for me. This guy sure is a card!

People really wanted this thing?

 

[More_Badass]

Bear Simulator KS page
Article about Bear Simulator

I still can't believe people actually backed this. It obviously was a ploy to cash in on Goat Sim going viral, and the screenshots looked like shit

Even the stretch goals are fucking ridiculous. Controller support for 50K? Lost references? Particle effects for 75K?

I mean, at least Confederate Express looked like a real game with realistic stretch goals. I could understand why people would fall for that.
http://youtu.be/O1vayggszdo

But Bear Sim?

 

[Qvoth]

i'm more surprised /v/'s yandere sim game seems to be making a lot more progress even without any money backing

 

[Ketch]

This is the most interesting thread that's been on GAF in awhile. I am legit surprised how much money some of these projects get. What is the compulsion people have to pay early for a product that's not out yet... not even developed yet... it's crazy.

is there no legal recourse people can take against some of these guys?

half a mil and it's just canceled? That whole truth & trolls thread outlines the life of a scam artist.... surely some of these people are liable for fraud right?

 

[FlyingNorseman]

Add Sword of Fargoal 2 to the list.

 

[HK-47]

I backed Clang and I was disappointed when it was cancelled, but they gave me a full refund, no questions asked.
What made me give up on kickstarter were high-profile projects with vague promises, misleading stretch goals and scams like Elite: Dangerous.

Clang failed completely, but I got all of my money back. Elite: Dangerous was a scam and they gave me a partial refund. Torment sounds less like the original game everyday and PoE has nothing to do with old IE games, yet in both cases a refund was denied.
I just never know what to expect anymore, but as fas Clang goes, I can't really complain.

What?

 

[CountAntonius]

And Clang is why I don't kickstart games.

People should have gieven that money to Torn Banner instead. Chivalry delivered.

 

[More_Badass]

Add Sword of Fargoal 2 to the list.

Last update was in January, so not exactly

 

[Permanently A]

Isn't CLANG the game that had a Gabe Newell cameo? I remember seeing it because of that.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

What about Cryamore or Zombie Playground? Those always smelled fishy to me.

Especially since, correct me if I'm wrong, some of the concept art they were using had existed for years beforehand unreleated to the project.

 

[More_Badass]

This is the most interesting thread that's been on GAF in awhile. I am legit surprised how much money some of these projects get. What is the compulsion people have to pay early for a product that's not out yet... not even developed yet... it's crazy.

is there no legal recourse people can take against some of these guys?

half a mil and it's just canceled? That whole truth & trolls thread outlines the life of a scam artist.... surely some of these people are liable for fraud right?

Supporting promising developers and projects, being part of the dev process, etc.

Kickstarter was behind some of the best indie releases of the past few years. FTL, Shovel Knight, Divinity OS, Sunless Sea, Full Bore, The Banner Saga, Risk of Rain, Volgarr The Viking, etc.

Plus I get to support developers I had been following faithfully for years like the folks making Rain World, or help a promising concept rife with awesome potential like SuperHOT become an expanded full-length release

That's why I back Kickstarters

 

[Wereroku]

What?

Probably because it's tb instead of rtwp. That change ruffled some feathers.