• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

[Kotaku UK] Paypal Just Did a Mass Chargeback on PSN Transactions

Plum

Member
Aug 26, 2015
8,679
2
0
Been reading about PSN bans and is it true that you can lose all your trophies/purchases? even when reinstated?

I think its just panic and hyperbole from those that have been banned (like myself) but it would honestly suck if that were the case.

im pretty much too worried to turn on my PS4 and try anything at the moment.

Fuck, what? Is this true?
 

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
5,046
7,510
1,240
Psa...if you contact their chat helpline and then try and log into it again later...you will be banned regardless of if the issue was resolved or not.

Some great customer service there
 

Plum

Member
Aug 26, 2015
8,679
2
0
Have Sony made any sort of statement about this yet?

Nope, nothing except CS and Twitter reps saying they're "investigating." Nothing from Paypal either. It's frustrating how incompetent some companies can be when shit like this happens.
 

Tarrin

Member
Apr 5, 2015
395
0
320
Canada
Fuck, what? Is this true?

I was banned a few years back because of Paypal fucking up and doing a chargeback I did not want on a purchase. Was able to get my account unbanned, and everything was fine.

I did have a limit on funding my wallet though (I think I could only put 50 bucks in there every weekkor something, I can't remember), and syncing trophies took forever.

Maybe I had a really nice CS rep though.

Edited my post since I don't know if this is the case or Sony Canada were just really nice.
 

Plum

Member
Aug 26, 2015
8,679
2
0
It's not. LordRaptor posted what you can and cannot do when your account is banned.

Plus, I was banned a few years back because of Paypal fucking up and doing a chargeback I did not want on a purchase. Was able to get my account unbanned, and everything was fine.

Well except syncing trophies took forever.

Good, thanks. That's alleviated the anxiety a little. I don't care about trophies so I don't mind if anything happens to them; save data and the games themselves are all that matters to me.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,769
579
520
Only, won't Steam let you play games online, and play your entire library, not just DRM free ones when completely disconnected from the net?

Yeah, and redownload titles that aren't installed, and play multiplayer games that aren't protected by VAC (which consists of a lot of titles), and still message friends, and still use Big Picture Mode to launch things, and still use your cloud saves.

Basically when people earlier in the topic were saying "restricted means the same as banned" they're wrong.
 

family_guy

Member
Mar 17, 2013
9,675
3
610
Stuff like this is why I never got PSVue even though it's probably the best TV streaming service right now. Sony will not have my CC or PayPal information again.
 

EmiPrime

Member
May 16, 2013
10,085
2
405
Everything about payment on PSN is a shit show. I have only ever managed to get Paypal to work once, now I am thankful in a roundabout way for Sony saving me from themselves.
 

JustinJ004

Member
Nov 21, 2013
281
0
460
Just seen this so checked my PayPal account and I have a pending payment of 3p from the 23rd of June so does this mean I'm fucked?

If I lose my account for a single second over 3 fucking pence I'm going to be massively pissed off and an ex Sony customer.
 

Uhyve

Member
Feb 15, 2013
1,239
0
0
Just seen this so checked my PayPal account and I have a pending payment of 3p from the 23rd of June so does this mean I'm fucked?

If I lose my account for a single second over 3 fucking pence I'm going to be massively pissed off and an ex Sony customer.
They'll hopefully solve the issue before you get banned. The ban seems to come when Paypal actually cancels the payment. But just in case...
Hi there! We can't discuss bans or suspensions on Twitter. Please contact our support team
Just saved you the time spent contacting the UK PS support twitter account. They seem to believe that this sort of response is acceptable and because there's a friendly guy here who posts from UK support, people act like they're not that bad. Ridiculous and obviously completely unacceptable. Sony needs to address many issues after this.
 

GamingMajic

Member
Oct 26, 2014
81
0
0
Just a heads up, I appear to have been unbanned!

Congrats dude! I'm going to try and see if I can get online.

Did you contact CS at all? Or were you lucky enough to just try and log on and be unbanned?

EDIT: just tried and I'm able to get back online! so those that have been affected should try logging on. Good luck guys
 

JDM

Member
Sep 21, 2015
474
0
0
Congrats dude! I'm going to try and see if I can get online.

Did you contact CS at all? Or were you lucky enough to just try and log on and be unbanned?

I sent an email late last night but I'm not sure if that had any effect as I've had no response.

I thought I'd try logging in this morning and it worked as if nothing had ever happened.
 

GamingMajic

Member
Oct 26, 2014
81
0
0
I sent an email late last night but I'm not sure if that had any effect as I've had no response.

I thought I'd try logging in this morning and it worked as if nothing had ever happened.

I also sent an email last night so maybe that did help. I'm glad that I'm back online and hopefully others can sort out their issue too.
 

Alphahawk

Member
Dec 24, 2006
11,305
1
0
I put most of the blame on Paypal, they knew what the consequences would be of a mass chargeback. The right thing would of been to email customers affected and say "Hey do you want us to do a chargeback" if it was a serious issue they could of closed down the account so that customers would be alerted to the email.

Some blame also should go to Sony, who should give a temporary waiver to these sorts of thing, but yeah I have to say most of the blame should be on Paypal.
 

RAL1992

Member
Aug 23, 2016
101
97
525
Manchester, UK
A friend from work was banned yesterday, apparently its due to his Eso Plus sub, he's having to contact support this morning to sort things out, what are the odds of him getting his account back?

I have no experience with Sony support only heard the horror stories, so any advice would be welcome.
 
Nov 18, 2016
79
0
0
I put most of the blame on Paypal, they knew what the consequences would be of a mass chargeback. The right thing would of been to email customers affected and say "Hey do you want us to do a chargeback" if it was a serious issue they could of closed down the account so that customers would be alerted to the email.

Some blame also should go to Sony, who should give a temporary waiver to these sorts of thing, but yeah I have to say most of the blame should be on Paypal.

Wait, what?

How would PayPal know what some other party is going to do? and why would they care. They process a bazillion transactions a day. Are they meant to know what every third party should do?

Based on the mail posted by Vanethyr which is a pretty generic but plainly obvious that the funds did not go through to Sony via whatever their bulk data exchange is.

- PayPal takes money from bank
- PayPal tries to send money to Sony
- Payment unsuccessful, rollback issued
- PayPal automatically sends generic email to those affected,
- PayPal automatically refunds people.

It wasn't a chargeback and its wrong to use that phrase, but more of an 'unsuccessful transaction'

PayPal did exactly what any bank does with any unsuccessful transaction, that is to return the funds.
 

Plum

Member
Aug 26, 2015
8,679
2
0
To anyone that was band are your PayPal payments still pending or have they cleared?

I wasn't banned but my payment still hasn't cleared. I can't relax just yet.

Really hope that, if the payment gets charged back, Sony CS doesn't see me as in the wrong because it didn't happen with all the other bans.
 

TeeDoff

Neo Member
Mar 11, 2017
40
6
100
I wasn't banned but my payment still hasn't cleared. I can't relax just yet.

Really hope that, if the payment gets charged back, Sony CS doesn't see me as in the wrong because it didn't happen with all the other bans.

I'm in the same boat. Not sure if I should contact Sony/PayPal to try and resolve before a ban, or if that might make things worse!
 

cammy84

Member
Jun 5, 2013
133
0
0
Just checked this morning and my ban has been lifted. Still no message from Sony buy it does appear to be fixed

Everyone who was affected should look to see if they are the same
 

ShadowkillXNA

Member
Dec 5, 2013
1,198
0
0
I really don't think this is on sony. More on paypal. They seem to be having issues with vendors other than sony at the moment.
I put three orders in on bestbuy tonight for digital psn cards. Paid with paypal. First order went through fine. Second and third orders went through at first but were refunded by bestbuy.
 

Plum

Member
Aug 26, 2015
8,679
2
0
I'm in the same boat. Not sure if I should contact Sony/PayPal to try and resolve before a ban, or if that might make things worse!

I doubt it'll change anything. It's best to play the waiting game now and hope that if you get banned Sony's CS aren't complete and utter idiots.
 

Alphahawk

Member
Dec 24, 2006
11,305
1
0
Wait, what?

How would PayPal know what some other party is going to do? and why would they care. They process a bazillion transactions a day. Are they meant to know what every third party should do?

Based on the mail posted by Vanethyr which is a pretty generic but plainly obvious that the funds did not go through to Sony via whatever their bulk data exchange is.

- PayPal takes money from bank
- PayPal tries to send money to Sony
- Payment unsuccessful, rollback issued
- PayPal automatically sends generic email to those affected,
- PayPal automatically refunds people.

It wasn't a chargeback and its wrong to use that phrase, but more of an 'unsuccessful transaction'

PayPal did exactly what any bank does with any unsuccessful transaction, that is to return the funds.

Any company that you issue a chargeback for is going to react harshly. It's not just a Sony thing. Chargebacks costs companies thousands of dollars and companies do not react greatly to that.

If it was an issue of no contact with the money was made, I think a better method would be to reroute the money to the party that didn't get it and then sending an email explaining what happened.
 

Gunship

Member
Aug 14, 2016
103
3
230
Unbanned here too, UK. Wonder if they'll somehow lock the game (Nex Machina) that I got refunded for or if it's a freebie now. GG Sony.
 
Nov 18, 2016
79
0
0
Any company that you issue a chargeback for is going to react harshly. It's not just a Sony thing. Chargebacks costs companies thousands of dollars and companies do not react greatly to that.

If it was an issue of no contact with the money was made, I think a better method would be to reroute the money to the party that didn't get it and then sending an email explaining what happened.

You're jumping over the place.

Email specifically states "Sony is returning your payment of $xxx GBP. This means the transaction is not complete and have not been transferred to [Sony]"

Nowhere does it state a chargeback was initiated by them, or a CC company.

What do you mean by rerouting money? Just hold on to this lazy couple million for a few days? Have a couple of teas and scones?

You cant just send it somewhere else, its not their money? This a zero sum game. Tranaction happens, or it doesn't. its a 1 or 0. if it fails, there are automatic built in systems which is what you see.

in any event, its pointless in trying to lay blame on one party or the other, what is important is how Sony handled the situation.

Im absolutely baffled that there wasn't some bean counter or something somewhere in the middle whom gets some automatically daily generated report saying "Increase of 120000% in auto-bans yesterday" and escalate it immediately.

a better result probably would have been to undo every auto-ban and email the clients with a "You recently purchased xxx via PayPal, due to [reasons], we will be removing the licence in next couple of days, please buy again if you wish to play"

Which by all accounts sounds like they are doing now - the lack of communication is still a little concerning.
 

Garibaldi

Member
Jul 19, 2012
979
109
590
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
You're jumping over the place.

Email specifically states "Sony is returning your payment of $xxx GBP. This means the transaction is not complete and have not been transferred to [Sony]"

Nowhere does it state a chargeback was initiated by them, or a CC company.

What do you mean by rerouting money? Just hold on to this lazy couple million for a few days? Have a couple of teas and scones?

You cant just send it somewhere else, its not their money? This a zero sum game. Tranaction happens, or it doesn't. its a 1 or 0. if it fails, there are automatic built in systems which is what you see.

in any event, its pointless in trying to lay blame on one party or the other, what is important is how Sony handled the situation.

Im absolutely baffled that there wasn't some bean counter or something somewhere in the middle whom gets some automatically daily generated report saying "Increase of 120000% in auto-bans yesterday" and escalate it immediately.

a better result probably would have been to undo every auto-ban and email the clients with a "You recently purchased xxx via PayPal, due to [reasons], we will be removing the licence in next couple of days, please buy again if you wish to play"

Which by all accounts sounds like they are doing now - the lack of communication is still a little concerning.

How does that work if the purchase was made in a sale? Which is likely considering we've just had one/are in one.

I have a feeling they are just going to write it off unless it's a large amount. My total is £10.96. Seems a little arsey to chase me down for it. It's just sat in my PayPal balance tho so if they want it, they just have to ask.
 

Stallion Dan

Member
Jun 8, 2014
8,970
2
460
UK
So people who are unbanned, do you keep the refund, can you play whatever was refunded? What is your store account balance?
 

Rellik

Member
Nov 22, 2015
7,596
42
300
If I end up banned up over this then this is Sony's 3rd strike for me and gone for good. EA Access situation was shit, Minecraft situation was even shittier, but this would be taking a dump on my face.
 

Garibaldi

Member
Jul 19, 2012
979
109
590
Newcastle upon Tyne, England
So people who are unbanned, do you keep the refund, can you play whatever was refunded? What is your store account balance?

I'm not at home atm, but I can now access the online store, acc management etc. My refunds were £1.97 I'd topped up towards Full Throttle and £8.99 I'd spent on Battlefront Ultimate. They are both still in my purchase history with a perpetual license. My PayPal balance is also still at £10.96. PSN wallet balance is the same as before the ban. £7.32

From my POV, they've simply unbanned me and left it as is.
 

Zarth

Member
Jun 15, 2016
176
0
0
It sounds like this is mostly on Sony for incorrectly concluding transactions and funding accounts from transactions that weren't complete...

If Sony had never properly received the funds then why did they ever apply the wallet balance?

Not surprised Sony CS is still awful. I had big trouble with them last year over an account that got bugged. I had to use developer ties to resolve it and in the end it was bugged. Really sad that I had to use developer ties to deal with a consumer issue.