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Kotaku: XB1 Slim 2016, More Powerful XB1 Scorpio/VR 2017, iterative boxes from now on

MatrixMan.EXE

Member
Sep 1, 2014
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This is the start down the road of games as a service.

Mark my words when Xbox 2 get's leaked or rumors hit on what specs it has and all that jazz. There will be talk of a revamped xbox live subscription or something new all together that will get implemented for all the xbox/PC devices for games as a service.

When that shit get's announced I'm done.
What do you mean by 'start'? Games as a services has been happening for years. Some of the biggest games this gen follow that strategy. You should have bailed out long ago.
 

Angel_DvA

Member
Nov 1, 2014
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I don't know, 2017 looks pretty late for me, everything goes to PC so PS4K + a decent PC is the best combo for years to come, especially since Halo come to Win10 and the NX will probably blow.
 

Ushay

Member
Sep 9, 2014
6,542
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The question is will this be announced at E3. Scorpio I mean, as thats the one that interests me most.
 

SneakersSO

Member
Aug 20, 2015
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The Scorpio sounds like a better version of the current Xbox One, yes. ...but not the Xbox One with Kinect, media focus and an always online connection. And sure, the inferior power level added to the weirdness of the initial reveal.
Except no one knew what the power level of these systems actually was until launch, even though we had specs on hand for the most part. The end consumer didn't necessarily know or care, although the resolution differences were a big deal, but that was an issue that the X1 faced in its launch window, not at its reveal. During the reveal, all people heard were 60fps 1080p for the next Halo and a few other games.

As for the diluted focus of the Xbox - all the stories we got today are basically amounting to the dilution of the Xbox brand across multiple fronts, PC in particular. I'm not pointing this out to say that any of this is bad for MS, more just to point out that this isn't some massive course correction for the brand towards core-focused gaming like many hoped it might be.
 

cripterion

Banned
May 15, 2010
6,654
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Osaka, Japan
Sounds like a shitshow when it comes to the future of consoles. Then again, if both Sony and MS are doing they must have thought this through. I might just stay gaming on pc for a while and see how all this thing goes down.
 

SOR5

Member
Nov 3, 2015
4,975
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360
But people buying pcs to play xbox games instead of xboxs is a lot worse for Microsoft.
People buying Xboxs to play Xbox games is still a market though

If people would just immediately gravitate to PC by default, FIFA sales would be alot higher on Origin. The console market and PC market rarely overlap.

What you have with Windows 10/XB1 is 'ecosystem exclusives' where the only choice is do you want a convenient console, or to use a PC. Either way, you're in and supporting it.

And they wont be just kind of related like Wii U+3DS, theyll be fused by the hip
 

Cimarron

Member
Jun 7, 2004
3,193
15
1,580
Beantown
Cross buy/play would be killer. Yes please and thank you. I would even gladly pay an extra 15-20 for a deluxe version of a game if it included the console and PC versions.
 

Neoxon

Junior Member
Jul 28, 2013
52,548
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Even Nintendo has done games as a service with Smash, Splatoon and SMM.
Smash just had a bunch of DLC & was cut off after February. And judging by the recent patch, they may be done with balance updates period. As for the NX port, I wouldn't get your hopes up for more significant content (except maybe the Ice Climbers). You have a point with Splatoon & SMM, though.
 

Markoman

Member
May 3, 2015
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Who in the right mind is going to buy the slim model then? Fanservice? Niche product?
Lower price for Xbox slim is going to do shit outside of US/UK. Regular Xbox One already has some crazy "firesales" here in Germany.
 

Papacheeks

Junior Member
Jan 30, 2013
5,354
2
405
Watertown, NY
Games as a service has been a thing for a long ass time now. These iterative consoles are a way to get you into their exosystem. Makes perfect sense from a business standpoint
Games as a service is the end of a era for me. And end to gaming freedom. Now they lock you in to a contract for however long for the life of the game. From a business perspective yes for a gaming perspective fuck no.
Do you think steam will survive if they partner with big games and make people sign of to steam access or whatver where it's the only way to play Dota, Counterstrike, and many others games?

You dont own them, so once you stop the service there goes your games.
Look at PS+ if there's a game your really into like rocket league and you have to resub or you lose access, it pisses people off. Plus side is they can just buy the game, and usually for a cheap price.
But if these games as a service lock content for multiplayer behind the sub, you are forced to resub to keep up with everyone.
Buyer's choice goes out the window, no more hunting for deals, no more owning physical media, just pay a sub to play games you would like to own.

Fuck that.
What do you mean by 'start'? Games as a services has been happening for years. Some of the biggest games this gen follow that strategy. You should have bailed out long ago.
Like what? COD? it's all still optional, I can still buy the game and play it. Down the road only way you will have access will be through a subscription. That is not a future im cool with when that happens I will be out completely as its only a matter of time before it goes to PC. I'll just get out of gaming, and continue on not caring so much about a indistry that destroyed itself.

Michael Pachter will be right for once on the industry crash.
 

The God

Member
Mar 21, 2014
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I look at iterative console generations as even less of a reason to "build a gaming rig" personally. Especially if it's beefy enough to run Occulus like a champ. Console gamers won't be as far behind the PC curve anymore as iterations will keep up properly. That comes with no driver issues, Xbox live, etc. My current non gaming PC runs Excel and browses the web just fine. Won't need to upgrade that until it dies.
How? Unlike these iterative consoles, you generally don't have to cross your fingers hoping that a game let's you play at your preferred settings. Then there's being unable to tweak settings to decrease gaps in multiplayer.

I'm just not sure why people want consoles to be PCs without any PC benefits/advantages.
 

KennyLinder

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May 11, 2007
7,885
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NA
Xbone and PS4 use virtually the same architecture though, right? How big of a deal is this, really? Probably more of a pain on the QA side of things.
Yep, that will be where the main issues will lie. Additional TCRs and testing requirements.
 

ClearData

Member
Jul 23, 2013
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375
I just remembered that Win 10 Microsoft games are going to come in the form of UWAs like Quantum Break. That is a bit concerning because that game was a such a mess that I got upset and sold my key, instead playing the Xbox version. They really, really need to put out a solid performing game with maybe Forza, Sea of Thieves, or Scalebound if they want to convince me to buy their PC offerings.
 

Boke1879

Member
Apr 25, 2013
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Yeah, until you're competing with PC directly. Then the money in the hardware becomes more risky. If they go down this road, they'll be banking on locking people in to what their friends have.
Well there are a lot of people that just won't move to PC and I'm one of them. That said you don't think it's less risky for them to do iterative consoles pretty much locking you into their ecosystem as opposed to launching a new gen in 5 years and potentially losing all those customers?

And also games will be forward and backward compatible. That alone is enough reason to either not upgrade or stay in that exosystem. You're not forced to upgrade.
 

Team Vernia

Member
May 18, 2007
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That makes no sense - the current bottleneck that exists, that the article references, is ESRAM & DDR3 integration, not the Blu-Ray drive to HDD read/write speeds.
Didn't they reference I/O transfer speeds? That's could be an HDD issue and nothing to do with RAM, right?
 

MisterXDTV

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Dec 8, 2013
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It was just an idea I had....

The only reason to have an Xbox Console would be the comfort of "fixed hardware". But with this move by Microsoft you can build a "locked PC" that does the same things INSIDE the most popular operating system in the world (Windows)

Basically there's no reason to own an Xbox console anymore, unless the price is VERY attractive. True 4K gaming is still far away for mainstream users I think
 

gamz

Member
Nov 11, 2015
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Who in the right mind is going to buy the slim model then? Fanservice? Niche product?
Lower price for Xbox slim is going to do shit outside of US/UK. Regular Xbox One already has some crazy "firesales" here in Germany.
People who are interested in buying a new Xbox? Don't get your question?

Who buys slim models of past gen's?
 

ShutterMunster

Junior Member
Feb 15, 2014
1,457
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To be honest, their PC integration strategy would have been way more impressive 10 years ago. Unifying the platforms is cool, I guess—the ability to run full Windows 10 apps on an Xbox is the most fascinating aspect of this all—but I'm not sure what they gain by doing so. What will be the UWP Xbox Exclusives to sway PC gamers? And will it sway enough to make a difference?
 

Tratorn

Member
Sep 2, 2011
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Interesting things will happen in the next few years.
Will be interesting to see if this can bring the XBox brand to new levels.

On the console side that could help to get market leader again in the US (won't happen outside of that though). Next XBox will probably be more powerful than NEO and will get the superior multi-platform games.
Even if I really dislike the idea of iterative consoles, it's exciting to see what the future will bring for console gaming.
 

SneakersSO

Member
Aug 20, 2015
3,165
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Didn't they reference I/O transfer speeds? That's could be an HDD issue and nothing to do with RAM, right?
input/output transfer speeds? I mean, that is usually to do with things sitting in RAM, but I could be misinterpreting what the article is saying or maybe they didn't know what they were trying to say. Sounds like RAM though.

Also, them having to stick to ESRAM + DDR3 for Scorpio makes sense, as forward compatibility is a key component to making this iterative model work for the platform, and there is no way they are going to produce a box that is strong enough to emulate the memory configuration of the current X1. They'd have to stick it out with ESRAM & DDR3.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
25,744
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lol if anything scorpio is NOT 1.5 like neo .... "new and revamped architecture" points to a bigger upgrade
It is in the same x86/64 AMD family, it probably means the removal of their Achilles Heal in the ESRAM. ;)
 

maverick40

Junior Member
Aug 6, 2011
2,150
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www.deadsmartgaming.com
In the future, when you say "gaming PC" it will also mean "Xbox".

Which is really fucking cool. Basically turning Xbox from physical hardware into software, like Steam.

So they pulled a reverse Steam-box.

Kudos, MS. I like dis.
True but how are they going to compete with Steam?

Also what is the future of Xbox live gold if this is the case?
 

HariKari

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Jun 28, 2013
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That said you don't think it's less risky for them to do iterative consoles pretty much locking you into their ecosystem as opposed to launching a new gen in 5 years and potentially losing all those customers?
Benefit of long generations is that you reap the financial rewards of producing cheap hardware as you refine the design. For the most part, the old consoles were close, which is good enough for the consumer. Constantly pumping out new ones is more risky. More chances to fail. They really should focus on rebranding Xbox as a service ala Netflix, rather than trying to pump out these boxes first.

Games for Windows failed horribly and people haven't forgotten that. If they intend to compete with PC in a way they haven't before, they had better have a compelling reason beyond what few exclusive games you can't get on PC.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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input/output transfer speeds? I mean, that is usually to do with things sitting in RAM, but I could be misinterpreting what the article is saying or maybe they didn't know what they were trying to say. Sounds like RAM though.

Also, them having to stick to ESRAM + DDR3 for Scorpio makes sense, as forward compatibility is a key component to making this iterative model work for the platform, and there is no way they are going to produce a box that is strong enough to emulate the memory configuration of the current X1. They'd have to stick it out with ESRAM & DDR3.
"as of right now there is no planned upgrade to the console’s I/O transfer speed–the speed at which the console can transfer assets from a disc or hard drive to its memory. This could mean long loading times for games specifically designed to support 4K, due to their larger assets."

Doesn't sound like RAM.
 

HariKari

Member
Jun 28, 2013
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Theyve said they arent

...make of that what you will
DX12+ games only run through their Windows store on Windows? Knowing full well the alternatives aren't serious competitors? That would be a very MS thing to do.
 

The Elite

BOSS
Apr 8, 2006
68,165
555
1,580
Toronto
I have read Xbox 2, Xbox TFlop and Xbox Scorpio in the matter of a few hours.

I wonder what it will actually be called.
 

DagnastyEp

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Mar 16, 2013
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USA
input/output transfer speeds? I mean, that is usually to do with things sitting in RAM, but I could be misinterpreting what the article is saying or maybe they didn't know what they were trying to say. Sounds like RAM though.

Also, them having to stick to ESRAM + DDR3 for Scorpio makes sense, as forward compatibility is a key component to making this iterative model work for the platform, and there is no way they are going to produce a box that is strong enough to emulate the memory configuration of the current X1. They'd have to stick it out with ESRAM & DDR3.
From the article:
now there is no planned upgrade to the console’s I/O transfer speed–the speed at which the console can transfer assets from a disc or hard drive to its memory.
From permanent storage medium into RAM. Basically saying no SSD, from how I read it.
 

c0de

Banned
Aug 22, 2012
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"as of right now there is no planned upgrade to the console’s I/O transfer speed–the speed at which the console can transfer assets from a disc or hard drive to its memory. This could mean long loading times for games specifically designed to support 4K, due to their larger assets."

Doesn't sound like RAM.
It basically says SATA 2 is going to stay. Or that they are keeping hdds and don't want to make ssds mandatory.
 

Markoman

Member
May 3, 2015
3,528
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People who are interested in buying a new Xbox? Don't get your question?

Who buys slim models of past gen's?
Last gen was a totally different story.
Fact: Xbox One is falling behind (slightly above 20 mio,big guns already fired) and the slim model won't change that.

Starting this fall folks that plan to buy a new console will have to choose amongst several products in the near future: Xbox One Slim, Xbox 2, NX, PS4, PS4 Neo.

If you think that slim will do for One or Xbox Brand in general what it did for 360, I'm calling you Optimistico.
 

Team Vernia

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May 18, 2007
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"as of right now there is no planned upgrade to the console’s I/O transfer speed–the speed at which the console can transfer assets from a disc or hard drive to its memory. This could mean long loading times for games specifically designed to support 4K, due to their larger assets."

Doesn't sound like RAM.
Yeah. The worry is load times and not resolution. I don't see how an ESRAM issue would be assumed from those worries.
 

SOR5

Member
Nov 3, 2015
4,975
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360
What would be the point, no really? People either game on their PC or their Xbox.
People have friends who are split between Xbox and PC and want to play with them

Its also nice to effectively unlock the game for usage on whatever device im on

Like its just a good thing

Its just a nice thing to have, its an inherently positive thing, its a consumer friendly thing. It was good whenever they did it on the PS3/PS4/Vita, its good here.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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lol if anything scorpio is NOT 1.5 like neo .... "new and revamped architecture" points to a bigger upgrade
Problem with a true XB2 is that they'll be starting with an install base of 0 as a major revamp of the architecture would lose backwards compatibility with XB1.

Starting a new console gen with an XB2 would see it go right up against the combined might of a PS4K and PS4 with an install base of, what, 60 million at the time of its release? Of course, MS will make games 100% cross-compatible between PC and XB2, but still.