Yup.
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KOTOR II is FINALLY complete!
- Thread starter sflufan
- Start date
Yup.
chickdigger802
Banned
Lol he actually said that?
Can't be surprised, the game does thoroughly break down what's dumb about the whole franchise.
D
Deleted member 102362
Unconfirmed Member
I got KOTR 1 during the Steam sale, and I'd like to grab 2 as well. If this is Star Wars without the black-and-white (or blue and red) morality from Lucas, then that's exciting to hear.
Very very very much so. I'm still not 100% sure of the "alignment" of characters like Kreia and Revan after playing through several times. It really redefines the previously crystal-clear archetype of "sith"
BattleMonkey
Member
Lucas likely has no idea what KOTOR2 is. Don't know where anyone gets this notion that he somehow personally has something against the game when it really was just Bioware.
No it doesn't, the Sith in KOTOR 2 are just as evil as any other Sith portrayed before. Just because they have good intentions, does not excuse mass murder and the countless evils they did. Also Darth Sion and Nihilis were some of the most straight forward Sith in the universe with serious lack of depth. Darth Traya is the only one that had any interesting motives
Palette Swap
Member
And Jedi are self-righteous assholes.
I was (mostly) referring to the publisher. Bioware sure did a number on the game's story, but Lucas Arts refused to let Obsidian work on patches and removed the game from digital shelves (years ago you could buy it on services like Direct2Drive, then it magically disappeared).
BrokenSymmetry
Member
Is there a way to buy a digital edition of Kotor 2?
BattleMonkey
Member
Think it's mostly just conspiracy theory stuff, since the events in KOTOR2 were acknowledged and published during this time in various books, atlas, RPG source material, etc. KOTOR2 is finally getting released again too.
CaptainSchwann
Member
I'm sure Bioware would like to pretend TOR doesn't exist either.
Either way, especially since the restoration mod is complete, people should give this a playthrough. It's a very non-prototypical Star Wars Star Wars story.
The mod shouldn't interfere with other item mods (like saber mods, etc.) right?
Conspiracy theory or not, Obsidian offering to fix the game and the complete disappearance of it from digital stores are facts. This re-release is probably just a quick cash-grab to salvage that bit of TOR popularity that remains.
If I recall correctly there are a lot of mods that are not compatible, there should be a list somewhere on the official forum ( http://deadlystream.com/forum/forum/4-tslrcm/ ). I remember encountering a game breaking bug with the 1.7 version while I was using some mods.
TDLink
Member
Not yet, but it is expected to be on Steam before the end of this year...and likely sooner than later.
Never heard of Lucas hating Kotor 2, or even speaking about it or any of the KotoR stuff. He always seemed happen with his "G-level Canon!" setup and for the EU to do whatever as long as it makes money.
Kotor 2 didn't redefine Star Wars or anything. The same archtypes are still there. The usual setup isn't all that different. They just blurred the lines a little with one character, turned Revan into some kind of mythical figure, and gave all the companion characters some emotional baggage. I wouldn't call it bad---outside of glitches, poor maps, etc.---but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as KotoR. It didn't have that same 'wonder of Star Wars' that the original captured, and a lot of the EU stuff lacks
Not bad. But not some holy grail either. I wonder if this will help the ending make some sort of sense now. All I remember is
Kotor 2 didn't redefine Star Wars or anything. The same archtypes are still there. The usual setup isn't all that different. They just blurred the lines a little with one character, turned Revan into some kind of mythical figure, and gave all the companion characters some emotional baggage. I wouldn't call it bad---outside of glitches, poor maps, etc.---but I didn't enjoy it nearly as much as KotoR. It didn't have that same 'wonder of Star Wars' that the original captured, and a lot of the EU stuff lacks
Not bad. But not some holy grail either. I wonder if this will help the ending make some sort of sense now. All I remember is
Jedi bad. Life is tough. Revan is tragic, but perfect. Multiple lightsabers. Credits.
BattleMonkey
Member
Outside of Darth Traya, it's true. There was nothing special about the rest of the cast of characters, the whole thing pretty much made people go "whoa", was all due to Traya who was a much more interesting Sith than usual straight forward "evil"
Well. Take away Traya and what was all that different?
Villains? More one dimensional than Vadar. Companions? Take away their one defining emotional issue--that also defines their side quest, and what's left? The main character who's basically a walking "See, Jedi did something bad!" that was handled more clumisly than what was done in KotoR?
I'm not going to hate on the game, but treating it like its way more complex than most normal Star Wars stuff is a bit of a stretch. It wasn't just the gameplay elements that suffered from the schedule and release imo.
Villains? More one dimensional than Vadar. Companions? Take away their one defining emotional issue--that also defines their side quest, and what's left? The main character who's basically a walking "See, Jedi did something bad!" that was handled more clumisly than what was done in KotoR?
I'm not going to hate on the game, but treating it like its way more complex than most normal Star Wars stuff is a bit of a stretch. It wasn't just the gameplay elements that suffered from the schedule and release imo.
Seraphinianus
Banned
still sounds good. I mean, any graying of the lines is gonna make it more interesting. even if it's not 100% morally ambiguous
Federico_612
Banned
Yeah sure, the characters are good, but if you take their defining trait, they're not.
That sounds REALY dumb, you dont critisize a character because they cant exist without their defining trait, thats like critizing a car because it doesnt run without an engine.
Palette Swap
Member
That kind of deconstructing is disingenuous. You can shit on anything that way.
And it kind of totally glosses over the execution: you can have a fantastic character concept that ends up sucking because you have poor dialogue.
Regarding the main character, you're like totally ignoring everything that revolves around the Force in the game.
Except that's not the point at all?
And people treating Nihilus like he's (edit: or, better yet, it's) a common bad guy is depressing. You guys should play it again.
BattleMonkey
Member
Which all comes out of the mouth of Darth Traya. The game as a whole did have more mature and adult dialogue than the first, but outside of the revelations or such made by Traya, it was pretty typical stuff without the PG sheen common in Star Wars. Dialogue was far less simplistic.
The concepts Traya makes are interesting but I think are highly flawed in their logic. It was something that should have been expanded upon as it could have made for some very interesting story telling that obviously got cut short as it didn't follow the simple tropes of a singular dark villain or super weapons.
I don't agree with any of it, with all the flak Bioware rightfully gets as of late I still think KOTOR trounces KOTOR 2 in every way
still, fun captions
Yes, and? How is that any different than any other Star Wars stuff? The stretch was made that KotoR 2 was somehow too complex for Star Wars and poor Mr. Lucas hated it. Then praise was center more on how shallow the rest of Star Wars is in comparison. I find that to be pretty silly.
There's nothing wrong with liking it, but shitting on the rest of Star Wars, when its the same basic routine, is a bit much.
There's nothing wrong with liking it, but shitting on the rest of Star Wars, when its the same basic routine, is a bit much.
Yeah, this is my view here too. You can easily flip that one around. HK47 is a pretty clear example. In KotoR there was a bit of subtly. In 2, he might as well just shouted "I'm the Loveable murderous droid back to increase sales!" and been done with it.I don't agree with any of it, with all the flak Bioware rightfully gets as of late I still think KOTOR trounces KOTOR 2 in every way
still, fun captions
Yeah...Atton, GO-TO and Atrius werent multifaceted takes on standard star wars archtypes like the dashing rogue or the crime boss
Wait what? HK in KotOr one WAS the extremely unsubtle lovable murder bot that constantly asked if he could kill anyone slightly annoying. In 2 he was more about being a mouthpiece for Revan and discussing the part assassination plays in the grand scheme of the Republic.
WTF are you even on about?
Palette Swap
Member
I agree with everything you wrote, my main contention with the line of thinking that discounting Traya, you're left with a mediocre game is that she's essentially a third person narrator, i.e. a huge narrative device (that might also be due to the way I played the game though). To be hyperbolic, that's like taking Watson out of Sherlock Holmes and complaining with the end result.
In that light, "The main character who's basically a walking "See, Jedi did something bad!" that was handled more clumisly than what was done in KotoR?" really doesn't match my experience of the game precisely because of her.
You mean when Traya/Kreia argues about the Force as a malevolent being? I suppose that is supposed to be flawed but she talks about it from her perspective, plus all the other things she tells you about; if I remember correctly she always says that the PC should come to his own conclusion on things even while telling you what she has to think about the Force, the Jedi/Sith, whatever.
BattleMonkey
Member
The Exile
dies several months or so after KOTOR2, she finds and rescues Revan from the hidden Sith Empire but is killed. Even though dead she helps keep Revan alive and to resist the Emperor which imprisons him for almost 300 years. Revan helped by the spirit of the Exile resist and influence the Emperor for all those years to keep the Empire from attacking the Republic that wouldn't be able to fight back, giving the Republic and Jedi time to rebuild itself. Shes still a blue ghosty in TOR. As for Revan, it appears hes dead but many believe hes still alive the way they handle his end. Wouldn't be surprised that in future content that they have Revan return
Both Canderous are enjoyable though. Mercenary with cool stories is one of the few characters Bioware can make interesting every time.
They tried with Zaeed, but he comes off as Canderous if he had boring "Hey, I fought this mercenary and guess what, I stabbed him!" stories. But that's neither here nor there.
On the subject, I like his story in KOTOR I concerning
his Yuuzhan Vong or whatever encounter.
I think you can forgive them when they made Wrex in the previous game.
Well...
Revan isn't killed, he "forcefolds" away right as he is about to be defeated in the Imperial storyline, and he is going to be reappearing in the story eventually. As a matter of fact, HK-51's(upgraded models of HK-47) are being added to the game as a companion really soon, and that could be the beginning of Revan somehow reappearing in the story.
Wrex was pretty stingy with his stories, even if he did give one pretty interesting one. But Wrex is still awesome in his own right.
ides of march
Neo Member
Well Ill be damned this is one of those things that I thought would not happen in my life time.
BattleMonkey
Member
That is just fan speculation though about the technique used. I believe he will return though.
blackMamba1187
Member
KotOR II still isn't available digitally, right?
Nope, you can buy the new Collection that was just released from Amazon or any other retailer though.