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KPop-GAF

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ChiTownBuffalo

Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Jan 26, 2009
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I haven't listened to K Pop since, well, before the turn of the century.

REF, CLON, RooRa and Kim Gun Mo were popular last time I cared to listen. I understand lots of people still like it. But for the most part, I consider it mostly for onanistic inspiration.

Any Korean music I listen to now is mostly underground Korean hip hop and Korean punk.

But please feel free to discuss your girl/boy groups, sharp knees and whatever media offshoots they occupy.
 

Fina1e

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Does Korea have any decent rock acts? It seems the music industry is just overly saturated with pop groups and everything else just gets shoved aside.
 

Nikashi

Banned
Jun 6, 2004
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My entire knowledge of K-pop comes from DDR 3rd Mix Plus. Bakk Kwo and.. um.. the other ones >_>

However, I think I heard more from each of the represented groups and I didn't hate it so... educate me K-gaf!
 

Tristam

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Apr 16, 2007
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Yeah, it's almost all excrement, but some of the groups have quality vocalists whose talents could be put to SUCH better use. I'm thinking of a couple of gals from T-Ara (Eunjung and Soyeon).
 

industrian

will gently cradle you as time slowly ticks away.
Oct 8, 2007
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Fina1e said:
Does Korea have any decent rock acts? It seems the music industry is just overly saturated with pop groups and everything else just gets shoved aside.
There's a really active metal scene in Seoul with gigs every week, but none of the acts have any international recognition whatsoever but some of them are pretty good.

And the reason why those pop groups dominate the music in Korea is because the corporations can easily control it, sell it and manipulate it. Just like anywhere else in the world but cranked to 11 because of the innately corporatist structure of Korea.

Korean pop music is really bottom of the barrel stuff as well. It's absolute garbage that's sole purpose is to sell plastic surgery and LG/Samsung/et al products. Anyone who claims it's got any artistic merit whatsoever needs to introduce me to their dealer.
 

ChiTownBuffalo

Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Jan 26, 2009
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industrian said:
There's a really active metal scene in Seoul with gigs every week, but none of the acts have any international recognition whatsoever but some of them are pretty good.

And the reason why those pop groups dominate the music in Korea is because the corporations can easily control it, sell it and manipulate it. Just like anywhere else in the world but cranked to 11 because of the innately corporatist structure of Korea.

Korean pop music is really bottom of the barrel stuff as well. It's absolute garbage that's sole purpose is to sell plastic surgery and LG/Samsung/et al products. Anyone who claims it's got any artistic merit whatsoever needs to introduce me to their dealer.
Hey, Hyori did a good job making me want to buy an Anycall phone.

 

Ryuukan

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I still have some albums from Roo'Ra, I could never find their earlier releases anywhere. Is Baby VOX still around?
 

farnham

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Fina1e said:
Does Korea have any decent rock acts? It seems the music industry is just overly saturated with pop groups and everything else just gets shoved aside.
transfixion and cherry filter are the only ones i know about
 

Raelson

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Jun 19, 2009
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K-pop is kinda my guilty pleasure and i usually keep up with all the new releases but i don't really consider it great music. :lol

Epik High is probably my favorite band/group in the world though, talk about musical quality. I don't really consider it K-pop though. Some of their songs are really poppy but most is just rap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCLgm0V3fEk
 

IAmtheFMan

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Jun 7, 2004
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farnham said:
i like drunken tiger

thats about it though
Yep. I like Tasha's stuff too.

Kpop otherwise is garbage. I get so amused by the pasty Asian-fetishers that try to break the ice to me by talking about how much they like Wonder Girls or SNSD.
 
Jul 18, 2008
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The rock scene in Korea never really did it for me personally, and to this day I still prefer jrock. Clazziquai is probably the best music group to come from Korea as far as I'm concerned. I mean, OBVIOUSLY I like the girl groups, but that has nothing to do with the merits of their actual music. Clazziquai I can actually sit down and listen to. They have a great mix of electronic, jazz, the occasional classical, and pop that just works. There's not really many bands out there like them. They even have their own DJMax Fever or whatever those games are called. A few of my favorites:

Tell Yourself

Fill This Night (you can really feel the Jamiroquai influence here)

Love Again (Jarah Mariano and Horan <3 )

Horan is extremely attractive. She recently starred in the kdrama Call of the Country, which was actually pretty decent.

Recently I've been listening to a bit of Deli Spice and they seem pretty decent. I've really not delved that deeply though. I liked this track:

Always Keep the Engine Running

Deli Spice, from what I have heard (mostly that track), reminds me a lot of the album Please Mr. Lostman by the pillows, which is probably my favorite album of theirs.
 

broadwayrock

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Fina1e said:
Does Korea have any decent rock acts? It seems the music industry is just overly saturated with pop groups and everything else just gets shoved aside.
I saw a band on one of those Korean music shows a few months ago that sounded like The Stooges, but i forgot to write down their name :(
 

Raelson

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Jun 19, 2009
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AbortedWalrusFetus said:
The rock scene in Korea never really did it for me personally, and to this day I still prefer jrock. Clazziquai is probably the best music group to come from Korea as far as I'm concerned. I mean, OBVIOUSLY I like the girl groups, but that has nothing to do with the merits of their actual music. Clazziquai I can actually sit down and listen to. They have a great mix of electronic, jazz, the occasional classical, and pop that just works. There's not really many bands out there like them. They even have their own DJMax Fever or whatever those games are called. A few of my favorites:

Tell Yourself

Fill This Night (you can really feel the Jamiroquai influence here)

Love Again (Jarah Mariano and Horan <3 )

Horan is extremely attractive. She recently starred in the kdrama Call of the Country, which was actually pretty decent.

Recently I've been listening to a bit of Deli Spice and they seem pretty decent. I've really not delved that deeply though. I liked this track:

Always Keep the Engine Running

Deli Spice, from what I have heard (mostly that track), reminds me a lot of the album Please Mr. Lostman by the pillows, which is probably my favorite album of theirs.
Clazziquai is awesome!
But i wonder what happened to that remix album. : /

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ByAg8fPWg

Fluxus music is great for indie type acts. Those artists knows what they're doing.
 

Aruarian Reflection

Chauffeur de la gdlk
Jan 17, 2005
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IAmtheFMan said:
Kpop otherwise is garbage. I get so amused by the pasty Asian-fetishers that try to break the ice to me by talking about how much they like Wonder Girls or SNSD.
I like to break the ice with Korean girls by talking about either K-dramas or K-pop. It's successful about 80% of the time, but I'm Asian so that makes a big difference :lol Then we make fun of those pasty white guys you mentioned.

My 3 favorite Korean groups for their music: Epik High, Clazziquai, Loveholic. I love SNSD and a few other girl groups, but it's more for the girls than the actual music.
 
Jul 18, 2008
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Raelson said:
Clazziquai is awesome!
But i wonder what happened to that remix album. : /

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9ByAg8fPWg

Fluxus music is great for indie type acts. Those artists knows what they're doing.
There's supposed to be another after Mucho Mix or Mucho Beat or whatever? I have no knowledge of the korean language whatsoever aside from the odds and ends so I never get the latest news :\

Mucho Beat was a good remix album though.
 

Raelson

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AbortedWalrusFetus said:
There's supposed to be another after Mucho Mix or Mucho Beat or whatever? I have no knowledge of the korean language whatsoever aside from the odds and ends so I never get the latest news :\

Mucho Beat was a good remix album though.
Yeah, you could vote on Youtube which songs you wanted remixed.
But i guess it takes some time, too impatient hehe.
 

IAmtheFMan

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SnowWolf said:
I like to break the ice with Korean girls by talking about either K-dramas or K-pop. It's successful about 80% of the time, but I'm Asian so that makes a big difference :lol Then we make fun of those pasty white guys you mentioned.
Surprisingly the Korean girls I dated aren't into it but the other ethnicities are (dated this Phillipino chick who was totally into the Kpop scene.) I'll usually talk about the dramas just to make fun of the melodramatic cliches. :lol
 

Shogmaster

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I left Korea when I was 10, and I just can't do K-POP. Yes I'm a bad Korean.

It's so damn manufactured and derivative... Shamelessly so.
 

suzu

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Seo Taiji's rock right? - "Bermuda Triangle"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlTJJ8KydpU

There's not really many mainstream rock acts I think. The ones that are popular now are still "idols".

---

The kpop I mostly listen to are stuff like BigBang, 2NE1, Epik High, etc.

Epik High - Fan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJEruchZkBk

I mostly like this because of the video haha. Epik High - Wannabe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElW_V6SyfE8

My favorite kpop boy band lol. Big Bang - Lies
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cv3phvP8Ro

Big Bang trying to do jpop. - "Beautiful Hangover"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYuYqgcWDWY

Girl group. 2NE1 - I Don't Care
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdZya6yATn0

Clazziquai. - "Flea"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbPARmeqC5Y
 

Stabby McSter

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SnowWolf said:
I like to break the ice with Korean girls by talking about either K-dramas or K-pop. It's successful about 80% of the time, but I'm Asian so that makes a big difference :lol Then we make fun of those pasty white guys you mentioned.

My 3 favorite Korean groups for their music: Epik High, Clazziquai, Loveholic. I love SNSD and a few other girl groups, but it's more for the girls than the actual music.
i like their music
 

Peru

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It's pretty annoying to see everything explained with either sexism or the Asian fetish accusation. I mean, if you look at my post history here I love pop and rnb, whether it's European, American or Asian. I'm not in it for the fetish, I'm in it for the POP MUSIC.

And 'Gee' is simply one of the best, most creative pieces of uptempo pop music the last decade. It's odd, it's new and it's brilliant, like other pop classics before it, like Umbrella, like We Need a Resolution, like Egyptian Shumba. Ten times more artistically interesting than whatever indierock single some of you would choose as the 'good' counter-alternative.

"Manufactured" is such a RUBBISH term, don't ever use it about music. All music is manufactured. Yes, companies with monetary interests back the artists, but they're not the bloody ones making the music! You've got talented, spirited musicians with a love for MUSIC who are making these tracks. They're as worthy as anything else, when they're good.

And quite a few times they are. The commercial pop music made in USA at the moment that really gets me going is is R&B (the The-Dreams, Ciaras, Ameries, Electrik Reds who don't sell a lot these days), and not much else, so K-pop is a nice alternative for the more aggressive-sounding pop with a bigger focus on rhythm and hip hop inspiration.

Best k-pop release this year is 2NE1's album. Sounds like nothing else, basically -- distorted voices, sharp sounds, undeniable adventurous rhythm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTw-UM5Jy4E
 

Fina1e

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That Clazziquai group is pretty good, really easy to listen to without being overwhelmed by autotune and the electronics.
 

Shogmaster

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Peru said:
"Manufactured" is such a RUBBISH term, don't ever use it about music. All music is manufactured. Yes, companies with monetary interests back the artists, but they're not the bloody ones making the music! You've got talented, spirited musicians with a love for MUSIC who are making these tracks. They're as worthy as anything else, when they're good.
Well in these cases, often the music is written for the "performers". And they are picked packaged in a way to titillate or swoon their target audience. That to me, is the very definition of manufactured.

It's really for me, about "artists" vs "performers". I usually gravitate towards music that the artists themselves create for themselves. It's more honest, original and genuine.

It's not to say that "performers" lack talent. Often times, they can be better singers and dancers. But they are just puppets for the most part.
 

Peru

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Just have to post this classic SNSD performance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MPZ89qmJ54

Shogmaster said:
Well in these cases, often the music is written for the "performers". And they are picked packaged in a way to titillate or swoon their target audience. That to me, is the very definition of manufactured.

It's really for me, about "artists" vs "performers". I usually gravitate towards music that the artists themselves create for themselves. It's more honest, original and genuine.

It's not to say that "performers" lack talent. Often times, they can be better singers and dancers. But they are just puppets for the most part.
On what basis is it more genuine? It's such a fuzzy argument it's impossible to grasp. Often in a band only one member writes the music. Sometimes the vocalist, sometimes the guitarist, etc. Do you feel the others in the band are less 'honest' because of that? What about the Motown artists? Were they just puppets? All the classics from that era, worthless? If a song is good it's good.

This is my standard example when people say commercial pop music by artists who don't write is just soulless money-making vehicles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNiZ0xYnqbw Those are the kind of people who are behind the scenes, just like for good music of any other kind.
 
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Fina1e said:
That Clazziquai group is pretty good, really easy to listen to without being overwhelmed by autotune and the electronics.
Yeah, unlike western pop music they actually have some vocal talent working for them. They also don't have the bad over-produced electronic that western pop is currently using either. I'd almost say that DJ Clazzi is more electro house than anything, which suits me just fine.
 

Shogmaster

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Peru said:
On what basis is it more genuine? It's such a fuzzy argument it's impossible to grasp. Often in a band only one member writes the music. Sometimes the vocalist, sometimes the guitarist, etc. Do you feel the others in the band are less 'honest' because of that?
At least the creative impetus is within the band, as is the creative controls.

What about the Motown artists? Were they just puppets? All the classics from that era, worthless? If a song is good it's good.
Yep, a lot of them were puppets. Many broke out of the mold, but most fall into "performers" category to me, not "artists".

This is my standard example when people say commercial pop music by artists who don't write is just soulless money-making vehicles: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNiZ0xYnqbw Those are the kind of people who are behind the scenes, just like for good music of any other kind.
I really don't know what that's suppose to tell me. You can be a whore, but still be an artist since it's YOU who create the music. You are in control of your own music. Doesn't change the fact that most K-POP is pretty girls or boys put together by producers performing (very well I'm sure) someone else's music.
 

345triangle

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chitty chitty bang bang chitty chitty bang bang

Shogmaster said:
At least the creative impetus is within the band, as is the creative controls.

Yep, a lot of them were puppets. Many broke out of the mold, but most fall into "performers" category to me, not "artists".

I really don't know what that's suppose to tell me. You can be a whore, but still be an artist since it's YOU who create the music. You are in control of your own music. Doesn't change the fact that most K-POP is pretty girls or boys put together by producers performing (very well I'm sure) someone else's music.
your perspective on music is very strange to me. so if i like, say, 1 thing by amerie, i don't actually like the artist because the appeal of the song is mostly down to the flat-out genius production? no way man, like i'm pretty sure that tune was written for jennifer lopez and it wouldn't have been have as good with her.

you could say the same things about, i don't know, nina simone.
 

Peru

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Shogmaster said:
I really don't know what that's suppose to tell me. You can be a whore, but still be an artist since it's YOU who create the music. You are in control of your own music. Doesn't change the fact that most K-POP is pretty girls or boys put together by producers performing (very well I'm sure) someone else's music.
The point was, the music comes from an artistic place, not a commercial one. The big bosses think about the money, not the people in the studio- Thus = there's no reason (for me) that the music should be conceived as less honest or REAL.

Also I don't agree with your seperation. That greatness the Motown tunes came from the chemistry that sparked between songwriter and performer, the things they did in the studio -- interpretating a song vocally is also a creative, artistic endeavour. You don't just hit the "sing" button.

Anyway, I guess that topic's done now. I do want to point out that it's not uncommon at all for k-pop artists to be involved in songwriting. The Big Bang guys are involved in both writing and production. Even people considered to be archetypical examples like Lee Hyori has composed songs, both album tracks and even her latest single. Hell even SNSD's Yuri wrote a track on their latest mini-album. And BoA composed this amazing song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mk4IfwvI78


---

Korean 'indie' song I love: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w60cjEO6U0
 

expy

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Shogmaster said:
I really don't know what that's suppose to tell me. You can be a whore, but still be an artist since it's YOU who create the music. You are in control of your own music. Doesn't change the fact that most K-POP is pretty girls or boys put together by producers performing (very well I'm sure) someone else's music.
Fixed.
 

Raelson

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djtiesto said:
Any interesting Korean EDM groups/artists/DJs to check out?
House Rulez

May not be exactly what you're looking for but i'll take any chance i get to recommend them. : p
 

Shogmaster

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expy said:
True, but there are more room for creativity and originality in the US, UK, and even Japanese pop scenes IMO (I don't listen to other countries so I can't comment about them).

Lady GaGa (not a fan myself) is a good example.
 

EYEL1NER

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Fina1e said:
Does Korea have any decent rock acts? It seems the music industry is just overly saturated with pop groups and everything else just gets shoved aside.
When I saw Megadeth in Seoul back in '07, the band Downhell opened for them and I can't remember what they sounded like, but I remember I liked them a lot. I remember scouring Pyongtaek looking for their cd but I could not find it anywhere.

And somebody mentioned Wonder Girls. I heard that song "Nobody" when I was in the Philippines and it is fucking infectious. I will admit I love that song.
 

expy

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Shogmaster said:
True, but there are in more room for creativity and originality in the US, UK, and even Japanese pop scenes IMO (I don't listen to other countries so I can't comment about them).

Lady GaGa (not a fan myself) is a good example.
One in a million, seems like the correct odds for all other Pop cultures around the world.
 

Shogmaster

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expy said:
One in a million, seems like the correct odds for all other Pop cultures around the world.
Probably. But I still haven't seen any of the acts on Korean TV I get here in LA that I feel like is out of that K-Pop factory mold.
 

Fuu

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I'm knee deep into it and enjoy it a lot for different reasons. I'm not in the mood to make a list of suggestions but everyone should give a listen to Clazziquai's works.
 

Dice

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As someone who plays multiple instruments and has been writing, composing, playing and singing music for 13 years, I really don't understand some of the arguments being made here.

*paraphrasing*

If the performer didn't compose it, it is essentially invalid.
This literally astounds me. Do you know anything about the history of music? It could be jazz, a little further back with blues, further back with folk, further back with classical, etc. Music can be an intimate personal expression, but by and large it is an open-participatory cultural expression and has been for the history of mankind.

If a person doesn't compose, they're still interpreting the composition. It's unavoidable. Even with that in mind, this argument is displaying an incredible ignorance of composition. As personal as it may feel at times, you are always taking from the past. Now and then wonderful things might happen, like when the jazz greats would brainstorm about music theory together in a room with a blackboard, but for the most part you are doing exactly what the performers do, pulling from your understanding of music according to your experiences and applying it in a specific form.

This argument is also completely ignoring the creative ability for someone to write a song that is not fitting for them to perform themselves. I have written songs for girls to sing. I took inspiration from the feelings of my female friends and turned them into song. In both lyrics and intended mood and style expression, they don't make any sense coming from me, but have found their place with females. Are songs like this to be thrown away? Why can't a composer write a song for someone different from themselves to perform?

Studio composers pander to mainstream audiences and that is undesirable.
Again, this is missing the cultural nature of music. Why must all music be an intimate personal expression of the composer, or attempt to push the boundaries of music? Must we paint every wall with a mural? Creativity happens in varying degrees and for any number of reasons. By and large, human creativity is expressed for the general enrichment, enjoyment and comfort of human living.

If a song can take something not exceptionally insightful yet very, very commonly experienced and then provide sympathy, celebration, judgment or whatever else, what makes this bad? Why can these things not have a presence in our lives vocally as much as interior decoration does visually? For many people music is a casual thing. They want to change their mood or enhance the mood they are already in, and music helps them. If someone creates music for this very purpose, why is that bad?

The performers are just tools for the company.
This is actually true in several aspects, but it does not invalidate their side of the agreement. A person doesn't commit years of training and hundreds of long days and late nights for something they are not passionate about. These people love music and dance and put their whole heart into it. Would you say all of Broadway is cheap and artistically invalid? I really just don't even know what to do with something so ignorant. Wow.

Western pop is better, you don't see someone like Lady Gaga in Korea.
Again, the ignorance astounds me. Lady Gaga is a team of people. Watch any interview asking about the creative process and she will mention what she and the team of people around her wanted "to do with Gaga" next. That is not her personality, it is a crafted persona she plays. It is the product of a team of people looking into various trends and borrowing from several to make something that will get attention. There are thousands of ways she could have been original that wouldn't have drawn a second glance from anyone, but what she does is meticulously designed for the opposite.

Also, her music isn't very original. If you are completely into American pop music (especially the hiphop-dominated club scene) I can see how you might think that, but she is incredibly derivative of the European club scene that moved over through the gay clubs she frequented in her early career. You say you don't see many Koreans stepping outside of their circles, but try going to Gaga's circles before you say anything about how adventurous she is.

The standards you are setting are too high for anyone to attain. No one has done it. No one whom you think has done it has done it. Music just works differently, especially when you actually want a lot of people to find it enjoyable, and I really don't understand why you can't figure out how to enjoy it as many, many people do.
 

Shogmaster

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If the performer didn't compose it, it is essentially invalid.
Hey, I was merely stating the difference between what a performer is, and artist is, IMO. I never said their work was "invalid", but whatever floats your boat to make a hamfisted case, you go indulge.
 

Peru

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Zoe said:
Writing lyrics != composing. Not to mention she had a co-writer.

(and somebody should tell her that "heeeeeeeeeeeee" is not a good sound)
Ah, I didn't know that. She has _composed_ other good tracks though, in addition to writing lyrics, including ones on her latest album.
 
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