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Social Drama [LA Times] Dodger Stadium’s COVID-19 vaccination site temporarily shut down after protesters gather at entrance

Taxexemption

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It depends. Are you refusing to get it because you are legitimately concerned about what it could do to you body? Or is it purely based on principle?

If it's the latter, it may not be as freedom-driven as you'd think on the surface. If your choice is directly related to the choice others want you to make then your choice is not based entirely on free will, but as a response to what others are pushing on you. So theoretically, anyone could force you to make any choice since they know what your response is going to be ahead of time.

Is it truly free will if your choice can be that easily manipulated by the actions of others?

A deeper conversation for another time, perhaps.

I believe that when Hitler or Stalin 3.0 rises to power in the next fifty years if mandatory vaccinations exist they will use it to selectively poison all people they consider undesirable, and there will be no resistance to this because no one will even know that it happened. If you get on a list of undesirables, your vaccine will be replaced with a poison and there will be no way to tell the difference. I legitimately believe another holocaust like event is coming, but I've not wanted to say that because I know most of the people I am arguing with are progressives that assume we are 5 minutes away from achieving some kind of racial equity, and that there is no way we are going back.


I am fighting for the right not to get vaccinated, because I believe that is the only way to prevent a silent holocaust.
 
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Ar¢tos

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I believe that when Hitler or Stalin 3.0 rises to power in the next fifty years if mandatory vaccinations exist they will use it to selectively poison all people they consider undesirable, and there will be no resistance to this because no one will even know that it happened. If you get on a list of undesirables, your vaccine will be replaced with a poison and there will be no way to tell the difference. I legitimately believe another holocaust like event is coming, but I've not wanted to say that because I know most of the people I am arguing with are progressives that assume we are 5 minutes away from achieving some kind of racial equity, and that there is no way we are going back.


I am fighting for the right not to get vaccinated, because I believe that is the only way to prevent a silent holocaust.
In 2016, 5000 measles cases were recorded in Europe, but because of anti vaxxers in the first three quarters of 2018, 53000 cases were recorded.

You are fighting for your right to... get sick??
How can that even make sense?
Thankfully, natural selection will eliminate people like you.
 

Taxexemption

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In 2016, 5000 measles cases were recorded in Europe, but because of anti vaxxers in the first three quarters of 2018, 53000 cases were recorded.

You are fighting for your right to... get sick??
How can that even make sense?
Thankfully, natural selection will eliminate people like you.

I exercise regularly and am at a healthy weight for my height. As soon as the weather warms up a bit I'm resuming my training to run a marathon. If anything conformists sheep getting fat off of soda and video games are who it's going to eliminate. I'm working on getting shredded.
 

SF Kosmo

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I’m pretty sure I saw you listed you had a vaccine that is “better” than previous ones - so, if that’s the case you are already in a better position than people who got the first batch.
I have had a vaccine that is newer, and which may overtake the others because it's easier to produce and store, but it is about the same efficacy as Pfizer and Moderna based on the data so far.

But it should be mentioned that there's nothing to stop you from getting a different vax later. If you get Pfizer and you want a Moderna booster down the line, that's totally fine. You probably don't want to get them too close together (they told me 10 days) but it is safe to get more than one. Since the one I took is still in trials I have considered getting another.
 
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Monkeygourmet

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I have had a vaccine that is newer, and which may overtake the others because it's easier to produce and store, it is about the same efficacy.

But it should be mentioned that there's nothing to stop you from getting a different vax later. If you get Pfizer and you want a Moderna booster down the line, that's totally fine. You probably don't want to get them too close together (they told me 10 days) but it is safe to get more than one.

Thanks but this is absolutely not something you can confirm at this stage.

My friend just had a discussion with his GP a few weeks back and asked which vaccine was his choice, he was told ‘Pfizer, and that’s the best one’. There is literally no long term evidence for this and people are just shilling what they have access too.

Waiting is much more beneficial at this stage especially if you are careful in your interactions around vulnerable people.

A person who takes no vaccine at this stage who limits interactions and is sensible / keeps fit and healthy / eats well is less likely to pose risk than a person who takes one of the current vaccines who also goes out regularly and doesn’t use ppe etc correctly (ie most people) and has a bad diet.
 
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prag16

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but because of anti vaxxers
Citation needed. Cases dropped drastically from 2019 to 2020 in the US. Though some may say that's due to COVID measures. We'll see. This COVID debacle will have sheer number of antivaxxers at an all time high moving forward. We'll see what impact that has.


Regardless, what it comes down to is that we do not live in a free society if society is able to compel people to receive mandatory 'preventative' medical interventions. Period. "blah blah blah you might infect someone". Nobody is entitled to a 'germ free society'. A germ free society does not and will never truly exist regardless. Mandatory vaccination is incompatible with a free society. We're already most of the way there unfortunately.
 

Ar¢tos

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Citation needed. Cases dropped drastically from 2019 to 2020 in the US. Though some may say that's due to COVID measures. We'll see. This COVID debacle will have sheer number of antivaxxers at an all time high moving forward. We'll see what impact that has.


Regardless, what it comes down to is that we do not live in a free society if society is able to compel people to receive mandatory 'preventative' medical interventions. Period. "blah blah blah you might infect someone". Nobody is entitled to a 'germ free society'. A germ free society does not and will never truly exist regardless. Mandatory vaccination is incompatible with a free society. We're already most of the way there unfortunately.
I very clearly said Europe.
 

SF Kosmo

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Thanks but this is absolutely not something you can confirm at this stage.
It's what the doctors told me when I got the shot.

My friend just had a discussion with his GP a few weeks back and asked which vaccine was his choice, he was told ‘Pfizer, and that’s the best one’. There is literally no long term evidence for this and people are just shilling what they have access too.
Moderna, Pfizer, and NovaVax all have near identical efficacy. Pfizer has some issues with needing to be stored at very cold temperatures and it has a shorter shelf life. Moderna and Pfizer work the same exact way, mRNA, while NovaVax uses pre-made spike proteins rather than provoking your body to produce them. But in the end, they're all very similar and have a very similar effect on your body.

The J&J one's a more traditional Adenovirus vaccine, that one is probably less effective.

Waiting is much more beneficial at this stage especially if you are careful in your interactions around vulnerable people.

A person who takes no vaccine at this stage who limits interactions and is sensible / keeps fit and healthy / eats well is less likely to pose risk than a person who takes one of the current vaccines who also goes out regularly and doesn’t use ppe etc correctly (ie most people) and has a bad diet.
Whether they want to or not, most people are stuck waiting for a while. Even people I know that qualify are having trouble because of limited supply. But when your number is up, it'd be smart to take it.
 
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prag16

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I very clearly said Europe.
Yes you did, and you were comparing 2016 and 2018 while I compared 2019 and 2020. My grievance is with the certainty you assert that this was a result of antivaxxers. The "antivaxxer" bloc has been growing steadily for years now. In the US it's really taken off since around 2015 when various states began aggressively taking aim at exemptions (e.g. CA). These people have never heard of the Streisand Effect. Their efforts to stomp out dissent only led to more and more people asking questions. I haven't seen anything more than circumstantial to prove that "antivaxxers are the cause" of random spikes of some of these illnesses here or there.

But even if they are, health authorities and government bodies should probably rethink their approach here. They're drawing extra attention to vaccines and vaccine safety and so on and so forth by trying ot crush all opposition. Live and let live, and I can guarantee the dissenters would not have been able to grow ranks so effectively.
 

Taxexemption

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I very clearly said Europe.

Maybe your leaders and medical community should be asking themselves why so many people don't trust them? Surely they have never lied before about anything important? Surely they have created better living conditions and a more cooperative society than they had before?
 
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Jan 2, 2021
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Citation needed. Cases dropped drastically from 2019 to 2020 in the US. Though some may say that's due to COVID measures. We'll see. This COVID debacle will have sheer number of antivaxxers at an all time high moving forward. We'll see what impact that has.


Regardless, what it comes down to is that we do not live in a free society if society is able to compel people to receive mandatory 'preventative' medical interventions. Period. "blah blah blah you might infect someone". Nobody is entitled to a 'germ free society'. A germ free society does not and will never truly exist regardless. Mandatory vaccination is incompatible with a free society. We're already most of the way there unfortunately.
I never thought we'd return to the Medieval Ages this soon.
 

DragoonKain

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I believe that when Hitler or Stalin 3.0 rises to power in the next fifty years if mandatory vaccinations exist they will use it to selectively poison all people they consider undesirable, and there will be no resistance to this because no one will even know that it happened. If you get on a list of undesirables, your vaccine will be replaced with a poison and there will be no way to tell the difference. I legitimately believe another holocaust like event is coming, but I've not wanted to say that because I know most of the people I am arguing with are progressives that assume we are 5 minutes away from achieving some kind of racial equity, and that there is no way we are going back.


I am fighting for the right not to get vaccinated, because I believe that is the only way to prevent a silent holocaust.
There may be a point where mandatory vaccination is a thing. Not for COVID, but if there's a far more serious pandemic with a significant mortality rate.
 

Taxexemption

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There may be a point where mandatory vaccination is a thing. Not for COVID, but if there's a far more serious pandemic with a significant mortality rate.

If I die as a result of my free choice than my death is a beautiful expression of freedom and virtue. If it is mandatory for some future disaster I will not comply. There was a potential alternative reality where an alternate version of me trusts the government enough to go along with this, because in that reality government is run better, and society generally is more cooperative and pro-social.


What it would take for me to get vaccinated is for the government to know that I am unvaccinated, and send police or soldiers after me. They will have to hold me down and probably beat me unconscious. I care about this more than you have cared about anything in your entire life.
 
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prag16

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I never thought we'd return to the Medieval Ages this soon.
To do that we'd also have to roll back all gains in every other relevant area such as sanitation, hygeine, food, non-vaccine health care, indoor plumbing, etc. And you're looking too far back. Germ theory wasn't even a thing until the mid to late 1800s, and vaccine mandates in any broad sense were not a thing before the 1950s.
 
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If I die as a result of my free choice than my death is a beautiful expression of freedom and virtue. If it is mandatory for some future disaster I will not comply. There was a potential alternative reality where an alternate version of me trusts the government enough to go along with this, because in that reality government is run better, and society generally is more cooperative and pro-social.


What it would take for me to get vaccinated is for the government to know that I am unvaccinated, and send police or soldiers after me. They will have to hold me down and probably beat me unconscious. I care about this more than you have cared about anything in your entire life.
Why is it always death cults?
 

prag16

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I have no idea what you mean by this question. Death is an inevitable part of life, rather than fear it you should fear living life poorly. For me that would be to live a life without basic freedoms.
We're getting a preview of this dystopian future via COVID. We're all living life more poorly than we should be, to varying degrees, due to COVID fearmongering by governments and media. The Overton Window is unfortunately on the move as a result.
 

Taxexemption

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We're getting a preview of this dystopian future via COVID. We're all living life more poorly than we should be, to varying degrees, due to COVID fearmongering by governments and media. The Overton Window is unfortunately on the move as a result.

There is way more non-compliance than people think. Even though bars are supposed to be closed some of them in my area have opened back up as speakeasies. They put the closed sign up, they keep any lights by the door out, they probably aren't paying sales tax or any of the other ones they are supposed to cause they aren't even supposed to be open.


I know people who are party animals who haven't gone a week in the past six months without attending a party with 20+ people. I have met people who are going to underground ballroom dancing classes where no one is wearing masks. You have to know the right people to find out when/where this stuff happens because they can't advertise, but a lot of people are starting up groups where they are doing normal stuff that is against the rules.


There is also a megachurch in my area that is not enforcing mask rules. I don't go to that church because it's not my thing, but I have mad respect for them. It pretty much is just not reported on.


I think we will wake up one day and everyone will just be like "yeah I can do whatever I want, don't tell me what to do."
 
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IFireflyl

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Vaccines greatly reduce the period of time you can transmit the virus and the virus load since your body starts fighting the virus as soon as it encounters it, no need to waste time in the learning phase.
That makes a huge difference.
The bizarro world is in your selfish head. You obviously don't give a shit about the harm you can do to others.

Again, I provided sources that corroborated the purpose of vaccines. They are not designed to stop the spread. Why do you think they've already said that people who are vaccinated still have to wear masks? Think about it, and stop acting like you're superior with no sources to back up your bullshit. Sorry you don't like facts.
 
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There is way more non-compliance than people think. Even though bars are supposed to be closed some of them in my area have opened back up as speakeasies. They put the closed sign up, they keep any lights by the door out, they probably aren't paying sales tax or any of the other ones they are supposed to cause they aren't even supposed to be open.


I know people who are party animals who haven't gone a week in the past six months without attending a party with 20+ people. I have met people who are going to underground ballroom dancing classes where no one is wearing masks. You have to know the right people to find out when/where this stuff happens because they can't advertise, but a lot of people are starting up groups where they are doing normal stuff that is against the rules.


There is also a megachurch in my area that is not enforcing mask rules. I don't go to that church because it's not my thing, but I have mad respect for them. It pretty much is just not reported on.


I think we will wake up one day and everyone will just be like "yeah I can do whatever I want, don't tell me what to do."
"Don't tell me what to do" built apon a pyre of the dead.
 

SF Kosmo

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If I die as a result of my free choice than my death is a beautiful expression of freedom and virtue. If it is mandatory for some future disaster I will not comply. There was a potential alternative reality where an alternate version of me trusts the government enough to go along with this, because in that reality government is run better, and society generally is more cooperative and pro-social.


What it would take for me to get vaccinated is for the government to know that I am unvaccinated, and send police or soldiers after me. They will have to hold me down and probably beat me unconscious. I care about this more than you have cared about anything in your entire life.
Here's what's far more likely:

You get sick, and wind up in the hospital, and some ICU nurse who is dealing with three times more patients than she's able to because of all the Covid patients, ends up having to forcibly hold you down and sedate you because you came out of your induced coma and ripped all your tubes out in your confusion, and while you're doing that, some other patient who maybe wasn't even an asshole goes critical and there's no one around to save their life. And they're dead, you probably survive and never even realize your dumb shit killed someone.

That is the shit that is happening every day. It's not just your life you're gambling, you live in a society, man.
 
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Taxexemption

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Here's what's far more likely:

You get sick, and wind up in the hospital, and some ICU nurse who is dealing with three times more patients than she's able to because of all the Covid patients, ends up having to forcibly hold you down and sedate you because you came out of your induced coma and ripped all your tubes out in your confusion, and while you're doing that, some other patient who maybe wasn't even an asshole goes critical and there's no one around to save their life.

That is the shit that is happening every day. It's not just your life you're gambling, you live in a society, man.

A society that won't take care of it's homeless. When I have to walk over homeless people to get to work, I don't believe we live in a society. A society that will discard you the moment you are no longer useful. When I see how depressing some of our big cities are, it's just not possible for me to believe that it has anything to do with my best interest or any "common good."


We live in a society that is doing everything it can to empower multinational corporations. Increasingly everything I see coming out of this "society" I am convinced is either a manipulative tool, or a for profit scam disguised as something charitable or for the "common good." This society exists to grind you into dust for GDP.
 

DragoonKain

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Nov 13, 2013
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There is way more non-compliance than people think. Even though bars are supposed to be closed some of them in my area have opened back up as speakeasies. They put the closed sign up, they keep any lights by the door out, they probably aren't paying sales tax or any of the other ones they are supposed to cause they aren't even supposed to be open.


I know people who are party animals who haven't gone a week in the past six months without attending a party with 20+ people. I have met people who are going to underground ballroom dancing classes where no one is wearing masks. You have to know the right people to find out when/where this stuff happens because they can't advertise, but a lot of people are starting up groups where they are doing normal stuff that is against the rules.


There is also a megachurch in my area that is not enforcing mask rules. I don't go to that church because it's not my thing, but I have mad respect for them. It pretty much is just not reported on.


I think we will wake up one day and everyone will just be like "yeah I can do whatever I want, don't tell me what to do."
Honestly, during pandemics, the last thing on my mind is "me." Right now all I care about is ending the lockdowns as soon as possible, and whether you agree with them or not(I disagree with the extreme nonsensical lockdowns) the fact of the matter is they aren't going to end until this virus gets under control. Whether we like it or not. The quickest way to reach that end and save the economy and many businesses is to get vaccinated. And also protect my family and the vulnerable. If the vaccine will contribute to these ends, then I'm more than willing to take the risk in this new technology for the greater good.

If you aren't, to each their own. I think society is at its best when everyone looks out for one another and makes sacrifices for the greater good rather than focusing in on themselves is all.
 
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Taxexemption

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Honestly, during pandemics, the last thing on my mind is "me." Right now all I care about is ending the lockdowns as soon as possible, and whether you agree with them or not(I disagree with the extreme nonsensical lockdowns) the fact of the matter is they aren't going to end until this virus gets under control. Whether we like it or not. The quickest way to reach that end and save the economy and many businesses is to get vaccinated. And also protect my family and the vulnerable. If the vaccine will contribute to these ends, then I'm more than willing to take the risk in this new technology for the greater good.

If you aren't, to each their own. I think society is at its best when everyone looks out for one another and makes sacrifices for the greater good rather than focusing in on themselves is all.

There are already new variants that the vaccine does not appear to be effective against. I don't think any of this makes a difference. Also it's not clear to me that getting a vaccination will make things go any faster.


Also please, stop it with this "greater good." Get the homeless off the streets, and I'll start to re-examine my belief in whether or not society is constructed for any greater good.
 

SF Kosmo

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A society that won't take care of it's homeless. When I have to walk over homeless people to get to work, I don't believe we live in a society. A society that will discard you the moment you are no longer useful. When I see how depressing some of our big cities are, it's just not possible for me to believe that it has anything to do with my best interest or any "common good."


We live in a society that is doing everything it can to empower multinational corporations. Increasingly everything I see coming out of this "society" I am convinced is either a manipulative tool, or a for profit scam disguised as something charitable or for the "common good." This society exists to grind you into dust for GDP.
The person dying in a hospital bed because you wanted to take a stand is not your oppressor.
 

Ar¢tos

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There are already new variants that the vaccine does not appear to be effective against. I don't think any of this makes a difference. Also it's not clear to me that getting a vaccination will make things go any faster.


Also please, stop it with this "greater good." Get the homeless off the streets, and I'll start to re-examine my belief in whether or not society is constructed for any greater good.
A vaccine might not help directly against a new variant, but it helps indirectly via our adaptive immunity. A vaccinated person that gets a new variant will have lighter symptoms and a shorter duration sickness, since the body doesn't have to start from zero against the virus.
 
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