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Lance McDonald (Bloodborne modder): Bloodborne PC leaks were fake. Bluepoint Sony contract expired.

Three

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You are saying to be objective while pointing out one game was developed to be an exclusive to a new console generation. The other is a game that was developed for the previous while allowing for some feature improvements over the BASE(console) version of the game. That isn't an objective comparison at all. Apples and oranges. inb4 doubling down

Sure I would agree with you if I was making the comparison but I'm not the one who laughed at somebody else for calling it a next gen game and then doubled down by bringing in the comparison in the first place to try and market hivebusters:

It's still just a prettified old game. Patched Gears 5 with Hivebusters is absolutely on par with it, but wouldn't call it next gen game either.
 
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JerryinSoCal

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In regards to Japan Studios closing - So according to you - It would totally be okay as well for Nintendo to abandon their Japanese developers as well and be a global company too? Good stuff.

In regards to your God of War Statement - Yes, announcing your biggest and most hyped sequel to popular franchise 100% did not raise the hype or moved the sales in any shape or form. I should hire you as my personal marketing strategist. Good insight.

In regards to the Media - Of course it would not bother you, you do not work in the media while I do and it affects my job in many different ways. It also completely changes how marketing, hype and consumer psychology is being handled.

Yes I agree, most journalism is actually trash, that is the only thing I will agree with you here but that's it and its usually trash only because it focuses on political shit as opposed to actual games themselves.
The statement on god of war stands, they were going to sellout everything they could make and the knew that ahead of time it had no impact on sales. PS4 didn't even have that kind of game coming in the first year and you couldn't find them in stores readily until late in April/May of 2014, now we have a pandemic and component shortages and those were known before the god of war announcement. I didn't believe it was going to launch in 2021 either and thought it was a waste of an announcement since they had nothing to show but it didn't impact sales of the console this early at all, they were already going to sell everything they could make for a long time.

Nintendo's Japanese studios contribute far more to their sales than Sony's did so there is no comparison there, most of Nintendo's 1st party stuff is made in Japan and that hasn't been the case with Sony since the PS1 if ever. Some people are obsessed with Japan on forums and it's crazy, most of the stuff coming out of Japan over the past gen looked at least 3-5 years behind what was coming out of western developers.

Interviews are useless now, they get all twisted by fanboys on both sides and it they tend to cause a lot of problems. Look at Phil Spencer, the guy talks to people quite often and says all the right things yet he's got nothing to show for it. Nobody asks him why so many games have been announced so early, why they had several announced projects cancelled last gen, why people should be excited about 1st party games on GP day one when their output is so low and unoriginal. The guy gets a free ride because you guys need access, if you piss him off you'll never talk to him again so what's the point of the interview other than helping them market their products? they don't need your help for that.
 
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cragarmi

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Bluepoint are the best in the gaming industry when it comes to remakes so far, but I'm more than sure they're not for sale or don't want to be under the shade of a bigger corporate even it was a passionate, caring company like Sony.
Exactly not everyone wants to be bought, some are happy to just have close relationships with publishers, and create exclusive content.
 
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manfestival

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You're kinda arguing the dude's point you know ...

Sure I would agree with you if I was making the comparison but I'm not the one who laughed at somebody else for calling it a next gen game and then doubled down by bringing in the comparison in the first place to try and market hivebusters:
That is the point. The comparison was stupid to begin with.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Exactly not everyone wants to be bought, some are happy to just have close relationships with publishers, and create exclusive content.

People really need to calm down, indeed. Insomniac has no IP's AFAIK, and they were happy with all the praise they get with being fed by Sony's IP's so to them it makes sense. Bethesda and Zenimax were offered to be bought and that what happened. If you do it randomly like Microsoft did with Nintendo you get laughed at for 1 hour.
 
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Dr Bass

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That is the point. The comparison was stupid to begin with.
So why did you frame your response as a rebuttal to the guy trying to point out the comparison was not only ridiculous on it's surface, but completely downplays what Demon's Souls is?

Not important I guess ...
 

yurinka

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Wait what Sony and Bluepoint is breaking up? Why? This makes no sense. I thought they were 100% getting acquired.
He doesn't say they are breaking up. He said Bluepoint completed the job they were hired to do for Demon's Souls so -at least as of now- seems they don't plan to introduce more changes or improvements to this game.

They are an independent studio, so for their next game they can be hired by Sony or whoever else wants to hire them. This kind of contracts are game specific, so obviously BP being hired for Demon's Souls doesn't mean they were also hired for Bloodborne.
 
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manfestival

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So why did you frame your response as a rebuttal to the guy trying to point out the comparison was not only ridiculous on it's surface, but completely downplays what Demon's Souls is?

Not important I guess ...
I didn't, you just took it the wrong way.
 

Ellery

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Big angery, because I waited many years to play Bloodborne again since I don't want to ruin the experience with that framepacing and resolution.
That game would benefit so much from 4k 60fps 16ms constant.
 

hyperbertha

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Big angery, because I waited many years to play Bloodborne again since I don't want to ruin the experience with that framepacing and resolution.
That game would benefit so much from 4k 60fps 16ms constant.
It'd lose the atmosphere. 30 fps has its benefits. Imo Bloodborne was responsive enough.
 

turtlepowa

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Or your green ones. Aesthetically you might like the DLC but to say DeS is much better looking isn't some insane thought. Hivebusters has more action and more colourful/lush or varied environments and you might like it more but I've got to agree with the other guy. Played the DLC on max on PC and DeS on PS5. They are not graphically even in the same league to me.

In terms of texture detail, world polygon detail and lighting (GI) DeS is definitely next gen:


Compared to the details on max settings PC Hivebusters:


Make sure you watch them in 4k.
It's annoying that considerable effort was put in by Bluepoint to make a next gen only game with amazing visuals and amazing load times and here you are downplaying the crap out of it as 'not a next gen game' so you can tow the the company line for your plastic box. Be objective and discuss the pros and cons of each. If somebody has a different opinion don't try and dismiss them with the usual fanboy drivel.
Sorry for your time, but i'll keep my word ("and that was my last post about Gears in this thread").
 

johntown

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I still think they are doing "something" with it right now. What would be the reason not to release at least a patch for it on PS5? My only guess is they are making a PS5 edition. They don't need Bluepoint for that either.

I still hope it will come to PC but I've had doubts day 1. If they brought to PC as an EGS exclusive I would take a crap inside my PS5 with my PS4 Bloodborne disc and ship it to Sony.
 

hyperbertha

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Hmm not sure. I recently played Demon's Souls and I can't do 30fps mode on Demon's Souls because 60fps feels so much better
It depends on the frame pacing and input lag. I can't stand 30 fps mode on last of us remastered on ps4, but some 30 fps games are perfectly fine.
 
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Barakov

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So let me get this straight, a modder is invited to a company for no reason. Is given nda material and is allowed to publish the info online for everyone to read?!?
This is the important question right here.
 
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Wait what Sony and Bluepoint is breaking up? Why? This makes no sense. I thought they were 100% getting acquired.
Jim Ryan.

Aaron Paul He Cant Keep Getting Away With This GIF by Breaking Bad
 

Samus Aran

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Yeah I have a hard time believing this tbh. Late april fools joke?


Look you talking about Jim Ryan here, he is like Don Mattrick but 900 years old.

Co-operation with Hideo Kojima on his next game?
"-Kojima who?" - Jim Ryan

One of the hottest studios to do remakes/remasters and had a solid track record with Sony with fantastic scores on every game?
"-I wipe my ass with that" - Jim Ryan

I love Playstation 4, 5 and the games but with the leadership under Jim Ryan this is feeling like the beginning of Xbox One with the Kinect, TV TV TV and Don I-Don't-Know-What-The-Hell-I-Am-Doing Mattrick.
 
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plip.plop

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Contracts have an end date. They end. We don't know if Sony renewed that contract again (good), decided not to renew it at all (bad), or just went straight to acquisition talks (great).

Hold your pitchforks, guys.
Most businesses renegotiate a contract before they expire when they see the upside is in their favor. Sony letting Bluepoint contract end is akin to letting a superstar hit the free market, it will only make the price go up.
 
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Heisenberg007

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Most businesses renegotiate a contract before they expire when they see the upside is in their favor. Sony letting Bluepoint contract end is akin to letting a superstar hit the free market, it will only make the price go up.
It is possible. But my point is that the Tweet does not imply in any way that Sony didn't start a new contract with BluePoint. It just said that the Demon's Soul contract is now expired, which makes sense because the game is done.
 
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rofif

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It depends on the frame pacing and input lag. I can't stand 30 fps mode on last of us remastered on ps4, but some 30 fps games are perfectly fine.
Yep. Bloodborne 30fps is very responsive but demon souls cinematic nude feels shower
 
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onesvenus

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Yeah I think it takes so much time. Because when you're under a bigger entity you get your free food and constant salaries, but share a massive sum of your output with them. And your decision making would always be influenced or even canned if doesn't go to the corporate plans.

Working with Sony gives you so much perks not available with others: Access to massive library of assets from their VFX side of business in Sony Pictures, get a generous flow of money when your idea has the potential, have more of a loose grip as Jeff explained at Jaffe's review, no extreme deadlines but more caring about the final quality. Might get assist from other entertainment branches further than what described, like CGI is made in-house, modeling as well, experienced consultation from Hollywood movie/series makers, Sony Music as many games got that fine, perfect shine with their OST's.

You can still save so much money to even push things further more with access to such diverse company. Not to mention Sony's Atom View engine is also used in gaming, which showed the frame budget assets streaming with only one LOD way before UE5 in 2017 (Sony bought then in 2019 though).

This is why most of Sony's big hitters are on another level compared to the industry.
When I read this kind of posts you do regarding Sony I always think I want to drink the same as you.

Can you name some of those collaborations between Playstation and Sony Pictures regarding VFX, CGI and Modeling?
And between Playstation and Sony music?
And last, can you give an example of Atom View being used in gaming?

You paint a really shiny picture of what Sony could be (which would be great, don't take me wrong) but there is not a lot of supporting evidence. In fact I'd say the opposite of true, just look at the deal been Sony and Microsoft that was reportedly a surprise for the PlayStation execs
 

Bo_Hazem

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When I read this kind of posts you do regarding Sony I always think I want to drink the same as you.

Can you name some of those collaborations between Playstation and Sony Pictures regarding VFX, CGI and Modeling?
And between Playstation and Sony music?
And last, can you give an example of Atom View being used in gaming?

You paint a really shiny picture of what Sony could be (which would be great, don't take me wrong) but there is not a lot of supporting evidence. In fact I'd say the opposite of true, just look at the deal been Sony and Microsoft that was reportedly a surprise for the PlayStation execs

A sheet from one of their official PDF's


Sony Atom View, mostly used like EA uses Quixel megascans on their native engines:

Atom View is a revolutionary point-cloud rendering, editing, and coloring software solution for volumetric virtual production. Atom View enables content creators to visualize, edit, color correct and manage volumetric data. Atom View can combine multiple volumetric data sets captured from different angles producing a single output for use in virtual film productions, video games, and interactive experiences with true photoreal cinematic quality. This advanced software engine is giving content creators incredible technology to tell stories in new and amazing ways.


Spiderman is mostly CGI in movies, with nearly all the costumes ported to PS games. Of course there would be tweaks to fit each body type of an actor.



Same with Ratchet & Clank, they look identical to the movie models as well.



For original games the models are made out of scratch indeed, but PlayStation has its own group dedicated for facial animations and modeling that collaborates with all 1st party titles.


The Visual Arts Services Group is a division of SCEA’s Product Development Services Group. VASG is a full-production studio located in San Diego that specializes in Animation, Motion Capture, Cinematics, Art and Scanning. We are currently looking for Blendshape Artists to come aboard and work in conjunction with our riggers, the Animation Supervisor and the Art Director to bring highly-realistic faces to life for both cinematic and in-game sequences. The successful candidate will be working with all of the triple A studios like Naughty Dog, Santa Monica Studio (God of War Franchise), Guerrilla and many more!

Responsibilities:
*The Blendshape Artist will be responsible for bringing highly-realistic faces to life for both cinematic and in-game sequences
*This person will make the final tweaks to the topology edge-flow and determine the final positioning and refinement to key assets such as eyes, teeth, tongue and eyelashes
*When the model face is finalized the artist will sculpt a full array of naturalistic FACs and corrective blendshapes for expressive photorealistic human
*Sculpting a series of high-resolution wrinkle maps to add a final level of polish and nuance to the expressions




 
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Jigsaah

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Not sure if this is good news or bad news. No Bloodborne for PC is definitely bad, because it sounds like they won't make it 60 fps on PS5 anytime soon. Bluepoint and Sony contract expiring means they are for hire now. So MS or any other publisher can get them to do a remake. So that sounds like good news. Plus could just hire them again if it comes down to it. Maybe Microsoft will help them to make an original title.
 
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vivftp

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When I read this kind of posts you do regarding Sony I always think I want to drink the same as you.

Can you name some of those collaborations between Playstation and Sony Pictures regarding VFX, CGI and Modeling?
And between Playstation and Sony music?
And last, can you give an example of Atom View being used in gaming?

You paint a really shiny picture of what Sony could be (which would be great, don't take me wrong) but there is not a lot of supporting evidence. In fact I'd say the opposite of true, just look at the deal been Sony and Microsoft that was reportedly a surprise for the PlayStation execs

I believe Sony Music played a part in helping with the soundtrack for Sackboy A Big Adventure. I imagine they also played a part in having Travis Scott involved with marketing the PS5 as he's a Sony Music artist.

For Sony Pictures I know you're talking about tech and whatnot, but there's all sorts of cross collaborating happening between them and PlayStation with PlayStation Productions. Heck they even have some cross promotion going on where Sony Pictures stars talk about and show off games like the Jumanji cast talking about a Dreams creation:


I'm just jumping into the middle of your conversation but if the topic is the whole One Sony initiative then I'd say they're actually not doing too bad so far and it'll only grow going forward.
 
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Three

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Look you talking about Jim Ryan here, he is like Don Mattrick but 900 years old.

Co-operation with Hideo Kojima on his next game?
"-Kojima who?" - Jim Ryan

One of the hottest studios to do remakes/remasters and had a solid track record with Sony with fantastic scores on every game?
"-I wipe my ass with that" - Jim Ryan

I love Playstation 4, 5 and the games but with the leadership under Jim Ryan this is feeling like the beginning of Xbox One with the Kinect, TV TV TV and Don I-Don't-Know-What-The-Hell-I-Am-Doing Mattrick.
Jim Ryan has been with Playstation for 25 years. Leading one of its most successful markets, Europe. 25 years means through the PS1, through the PS2, through the PS3 and PS4 and now through the PS5. Being outbid in bidding wars is one thing but "he doesn't know what he is doing" is a harsh take. He has been in gaming longer than any other exec including Phil. I think he knows what he is doing.
 
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onesvenus

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A sheet from one of their official PDF's

Is there anything else more substantial than a single PDF image? Because you know, one thing is what Sony wants to achieve in the future and another completely different is what they do now.
Sony Atom View, mostly used like EA uses Quixel megascans
Sony Atom View and Quixel Megascans are two completely different things. One is a rendering/editing point-cloud software and the other is a meshed assets library made from photogrametry.
Atom View is a revolutionary point-cloud rendering, editing, and coloring software solution for volumetric virtual production. Atom View enables content creators to visualize, edit, color correct and manage volumetric data. Atom View can combine multiple volumetric data sets captured from different angles producing a single output for use in virtual film productions, video games, and interactive experiences with true photoreal cinematic quality. This advanced software engine is giving content creators incredible technology to tell stories in new and amazing ways.
This does not mean it has been used anywhere. Again, I was looking for concrete examples instead of rethoric.
Spiderman is mostly CGI in movies, with nearly all the costumes ported to PS games
Do you have any information about them sharing assets? Because when you say ported to PS games that can just mean created from scratch using the movie as a reference.
Same with Ratchet & Clank, they look identical to the movie models as well.
Again, do you have some information about assets being shared? Them looking "identical" without looking at the meshes and shaders does not say anything.
For original games the models are made out of scratch indeed, but PlayStation has its own group dedicated for facial animations and modeling that collaborates with all 1st party titles.
VAS is used across first party titles the same way ICE does. That doesn't mean it's being used for any other Sony division. Again, this is not proof of collaboration between Sony divisions. VAS is a Playstation group.
I believe Sony Music played a part in helping with the soundtrack for Sackboy A Big Adventure
Do you have any reference on that or just a guess?
I imagine they also played a part in having Travis Scott involved with marketing the PS5 as he's a Sony Music artist.

For Sony Pictures I know you're talking about tech and whatnot, but there's all sorts of cross collaborating happening between them and PlayStation with PlayStation Productions. Heck they even have some cross promotion going on where Sony Pictures stars talk about and show off games like the Jumanji cast talking about a Dreams creation:


I'm just jumping into the middle of your conversation but if the topic is the whole One Sony initiative then I'd say they're actually not doing too bad so far and it'll only grow going forward.
There's collaboration between divisions for marketing purposes but the post I was answering to implied a more in-depth collaboration existing where assets and engines where being shared.
 

vivftp

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Do you have any reference on that or just a guess?

There's collaboration between divisions for marketing purposes but the post I was answering to implied a more in-depth collaboration existing where assets and engines where being shared.
The Sackboy and Sony music thing was something I've seen referenced several times on the forums, but I'm not intimately familiar with the source.

As for the assets and engines and whatnot, *shrug* that goes beyond my knowledge.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Is there anything else more substantial than a single PDF image? Because you know, one thing is what Sony wants to achieve in the future and another completely different is what they do now.

Sony Atom View and Quixel Megascans are two completely different things. One is a rendering/editing point-cloud software and the other is a meshed assets library made from photogrametry.

This does not mean it has been used anywhere. Again, I was looking for concrete examples instead of rethoric.

Do you have any information about them sharing assets? Because when you say ported to PS games that can just mean created from scratch using the movie as a reference.

Again, do you have some information about assets being shared? Them looking "identical" without looking at the meshes and shaders does not say anything.

VAS is used across first party titles the same way ICE does. That doesn't mean it's being used for any other Sony division. Again, this is not proof of collaboration between Sony divisions. VAS is a Playstation group.

Do you have any reference on that or just a guess?

There's collaboration between divisions for marketing purposes but the post I was answering to implied a more in-depth collaboration existing where assets and engines where being shared.

I really hope you ask such questions in each of these fake rumors threads then. You literally want me to be a close friend of Hermen Hulst or another big shot at Sony. You're asking for the impossible and you know that those questions aren't even worth asking.

So according to what you're suggesting, we shouldn't trust Sony, right?

The Sackboy and Sony music thing was something I've seen referenced several times on the forums, but I'm not intimately familiar with the source.

As for the assets and engines and whatnot, *shrug* that goes beyond my knowledge.

He only over-questions any positive thing Sony-related and asking for impossible answers that are irrelevant. He has experience in the field but pretends like he never heard of Z-Brush for models that could literally be shared for various applications.
 
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ToadMan

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-Announcing God of War for 2021 in their September event. It was so obvious they knew themselves they weren't gonna make it anyways and it feels like they teased it for 2021 right before PS5 launch just to move more sales right before pre orders opened. How is this not arrogance?

MS had an entire show of reveals none of which is coming this year. Halo Inf got delayed and that looks like that won’t be a full release this year either.

If there’s pumping sales with content teasing then they’re both doing it - if this is a sign of “arrogance” (which bit isn’t but that’s the word you used) then they’re both arrogant.
 
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onesvenus

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He only over-questions any positive thing Sony-related and asking for impossible answers that are irrelevant.
No, what I question is fanboys talking things they don't know anything about. As I said before it would be awesome if Sony as a whole acted as a single company and collaborated extensively between divisions but AFAIK that's not happening and hasn't happened for you to be talking like that's a usual thing. Everytime I read a post like yours, assuming a lot of things we don't have any knowledge about at all, I will question the poster, whatever it is their prefered plastic box. I love people speculating but I really dislike people asserting things to be true without any proof whatsoever.
He has experience in the field but pretends like he never heard of Z-Brush for models that could literally be shared for various applications.
I am not pretending anything. Models being used by movies and models being used in videogames have a lot of different restrictions that make really difficult to use on different mediums. Is it possible? Yes, and as every generation goes by it's getting easier. Has it happened? I don't think so, that's why I was asking. You are saying they are doing that without any single proof whatsoever other than models looking similar, whatever that means.
 

Samus Aran

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Jim Ryan has been with Playstation for 25 years. Leading one of its most successful markets, Europe. 25 years means through the PS1, through the PS2, through the PS3 and PS4 and now through the PS5. Being outbid in bidding wars is one thing but "he doesn't know what he is doing" is a harsh take. He has been in gaming longer than any other exec including Phil. I think he knows what he is doing.

Being a long time in a business doesn't always translate to knowing what you are doing. Just because he did great before doesn't mean he is great now. Shit, Ridley Scott has been doing successful and good movies since he was 30, doesn't mean he does great and successful films now.

Maybe he was outbid, we don't know. But the amount of money they have and not acquiring top tier studios to secure a good output of games but instead letting Microsoft buy them is hubris or delusion from the success of PS4, I stand by my take that he doesn't know what he is doing anymore. If you think he does a fantastic job and/or is a great boss more power to you man, shit maybe you know more than I do about business or Jim Ryan, but this is what I perceive of him on his decisions.
 
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Dolodolo

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Like I said in another thread I heard from some people in the know Sony wasnt the only company they were talking to for projects. I dont know if it went beyond talks or if they are working on 2 projects for 2 different platforms. I know they had 2 projects in the works in 2020, and had talked to Microsoft in like mid-late 2018.

If they did sign off on making something for Microsoft then, that would be your answer for not being bought right now. Because their valuation would go up, and to a point, sony will not pay billions for one studio. They are worth a good amount right now.

If they are doing the full remake of MGS then that would explain why they would not be the studio remastering Bloodborne. I think thats coming from another third party. But Bluepoint is a 2 team studio. When they finished on Shadow they had already started on Souls previously and were in talks with Microsoft for a possible contracted game. Thats all I know, it could have fallen through depending how much of the studio was developing demon souls, and how many were working on Sony's second project.
Dude, I love some of your reasoning, but could you help but pretend to be an insider. And even if you are, then please check yourself with moderation, and not give empty sounds. We've had a ton of rumors that the MGS remakes are being done under the supervision of Sony and Konami. This is their new collaboration, which also applies to Silnent Hill. Moreover, several users were even checked for this information, unlike you. Therefore, either say something sensible that they can check, or dump
 

Papacheeks

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Dude, I love some of your reasoning, but could you help but pretend to be an insider. And even if you are, then please check yourself with moderation, and not give empty sounds. We've had a ton of rumors that the MGS remakes are being done under the supervision of Sony and Konami. This is their new collaboration, which also applies to Silnent Hill. Moreover, several users were even checked for this information, unlike you. Therefore, either say something sensible that they can check, or dump
First your not a mod, second you can go and look this information up.

Bluepoint had a contract with ms for Titanfall on 360, and the same time were contracted to do a remaster for Uncharted collection. I am not the kind of person who will show information of his friends to moderation. I have people I went to school with from Academy of Art in San francisco I still keep tabs on and talk to. 3 of Which work in games. One works still at Gearbox.

You dont like it tell a mod if its an issue or put me on ignore. Just because I don't get vetted doesnt mean im trying to spill extra info. Company's talk in trying to get contracts going, Bluepoint is a contract studio.

With the information thats now out there it looks like Sony had made multiple contracts to keep Bluepoint working on Playstation. So again my source, who is someone I talk to I will not give out. And its not like some of this cant be found if you dont look.
 
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Dolodolo

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First your not a mod, second you can go and look this information up.

Bluepoint had a contract with ms for Titanfall on 360, and the same time were contracted to do a remaster for Uncharted collection. I am not the kind of person who will show information of his friends to moderation. I have people I went to school with from Academy of Art in San francisco I still keep tabs on and talk to. 3 of Which work in games. One works still at Gearbox.

You dont like it tell a mod if its an issue or put me on ignore. Just because I don't get vetted doesnt mean im trying to spill extra info. Company's talk in trying to get contracts going, Bluepoint is a contract studio.

With the information thats now out there it looks like Sony had made multiple contracts to keep Bluepoint working on Playstation. So again my source, who is someone I talk to I will not give out. And its not like some of this cant be found if you dont look.
Sorry, but this does not work on this forum. If you say any information, according to internal sources, then at least the Moderator should write to you to check it. If you cannot confirm your information in any way, then you should not talk about it. We already had several cases of banned users who were engaged in a similar.

You say you've heard of several Bluepoint projects, but you can't even name any specifically. Although, a lot of information has already been floating around, from the same verified user