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Lance McDonald: PS4/5 Emulated Tomb Raider Legend Runs at 480p/30 FPS - $20

GametimeUK

Member
I really do appreciate Microsofts efforts when it comes to increasing framerates and resolution of legacy titles. It makes re-visiting classics a lot more appealing.

I was holding off playing Sly due to this PS5 release. I've never played it. I ripped my PS3 copy so it was either RPCS3 at 4k or the PS3 now. The thing is I really wanted trophies so I might just play the PS3 version.

Pretty amazing my PS3 is still getting played in 2024. Favourite console of all time.
 

Taur007

Member
LOL Primal PS2 running on PS4 is up rendered to 720p (it shows) at least... either it is an exaggeration or a regression (possible if they put a team of less than competent devs on it and rushed them).
the one game i'd buy a ps5 for, hell i'd settle for a 4k 30 remake, loved primal
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
LOL Primal PS2 running on PS4 is up rendered to 720p (it shows) at least... either it is an exaggeration or a regression (possible if they put a team of less than competent devs on it and rushed them).
They didn't even bother patching wide-screen in to the game, is amazing.
I really do appreciate Microsofts efforts when it comes to increasing framerates and resolution of legacy titles. It makes re-visiting classics a lot more appealing.
Edit - ok tested - this - the new games run the same 4x + AA. No regression or improvement here.

Forced wide-screen was never a thing with BC titles, so I wasn't expecting it here - but to be fair from 2002 onwards most PS2 games supported it (TR and CloneWars do too).
 
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SkylineRKR

Member
Its certainly strange. I played Ape Escape 2 and beat Star Ocean 3 which are PS2 classics as well and those output 1080p and have a rather clean IQ to boot.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
PCSX2 is open source. I can run PS2 games at 3x native res no problem on a goddamn steam deck. There is nothing stopping Sony except pride from using PXSX2 and tweaking settings for each game. What a joke.
I hear you, but this must be a bug.
Let's judge when it's working properly.
 

Filben

Member
I can run PS2 games at 3x native res no problem
Don't you have that weird visual glitch with anything more than native res? I've had these issues for years now (so no matter what PCSX2 version), the higher the res the more the visuals glitch out (ghosting/blurred double images).

lxvhufda74951.png
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Don't you have that weird visual glitch with anything more than native res? I've had these issues for years now (so no matter what PCSX2 version), the higher the res the more the visuals glitch out (ghosting/blurred double images).

lxvhufda74951.png

Never had this problem. Might be a 4:3 —> 16:9 issue. If you have a steam deck and emudeck you can hold start and use the up arrow to go to 3x native and beyond until the frame rate starts chugging. I’ve been playing a bunch of budokai 3 recently with no problem.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
This should be the bare minimum imo for BC/Emulation/Legacy stuff:
You know - I actually do think there should be a standard for this.
The region switching is a bit more difficult (it requires multiple ISOs on 99% of the games - there's usually no 'in-software' switch for regions - most of the time they released with different content on disc) but it's still totally doable.
I agree 100% with selectable resolution targets and CRT filters.
I would however add HDR support to the list (OLED emulating CRT experience that way can be transformative) with the option for high-framerate container emulating low-persistence of the display. Outputting these games in 120/240hz with 20-25% persistence (And boosted HDR brightness) looks completely unlike any fixed-panel experience you get with normal emulators (and it doesn't require any changes to game framerate - it's just emulator doing its thing - not unlike how LFC or strobing hacks work on PC).

All sourceable titles without licensing issues should be on there, if it does have a license issue, technical issue or sourcing issue but it's an obviously popular title they should get right on it; and for the rest they should maintain an open leaderboard (directly accessible from the PS5 UI and PS site) where PS Plus users can vote for what games Sony should prioritise in sorting out and getting on there.
This is unfortunately the most improbable part of the list. Licensing is a legal minefield and every platform holder has struggled with it in transition to digital. I'd personally settle for the 800 or so PS1+PS2 games that they already licensed during PS3 era - but I suspect even that had limits (As we saw with transition from PSP -> Vita).
More so because since then - a bunch of publishers decided to take the ball and go home (ie. hoarding IPs for 'potential' remasters/remakes). I think for this to become a reality we'd need some way to convince publishers at large this is in their best interest...
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
There is nothing stopping Sony except pride from using PXSX2 and tweaking settings for each game. What a joke.
When using GPU/hw-accelerated PCSX2 compatibility is still a shitshow that requires tons of per-game hacks to get anything resembling original games (even in the games that are high-on compatibility list - I can spot glitches galore). You can argue that Sony should invest into repackaging each release with all that - but let's not pretend there's a low-effort mode here if we actually care about compatibility. Like people criticised the hell out of Nintendo's emulation efforts for lack of accuracy - PCSX2 is a lot worse than that, consistently (not to mention the input-lag being pretty dreadful - I somehow doubt that would land too well if Sony used it).
Software mode tends to work well even with more difficult titles(not 100% - but it's drastically better than hw-mode) - but then you just get the original, SD experience with no enhancements (other than maybe framerate).
 
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Filben

Member
Never had this problem. Might be a 4:3 —> 16:9 issue. If you have a steam deck and emudeck you can hold start and use the up arrow to go to 3x native and beyond until the frame rate starts chugging. I’ve been playing a bunch of budokai 3 recently with no problem.
Ok, thanks, will try again. I was literally playing TR Legends a year ago on the Steam Deck via PCSX2 and I swear I've had these issues still.
 

wvnative

Member
Hey can someone please test something for me? In the emulator menu, does the button reassignment option allow you to remap start and select?
 

Esppiral

Member
When using GPU/hw-accelerated PCSX2 compatibility is still a shitshow that requires tons of per-game hacks to get anything resembling original games (even in the games that are high-on compatibility list - I can spot glitches galore). You can argue that Sony should invest into repackaging each release with all that - but let's not pretend there's a low-effort mode here if we actually care about compatibility. Like people criticised the hell out of Nintendo's emulation efforts for lack of accuracy - PCSX2 is a lot worse than that, consistently (not to mention the input-lag being pretty dreadful - I somehow doubt that would land too well if Sony used it).
Software mode tends to work well even with more difficult titles(not 100% - but it's drastically better than hw-mode) - but then you just get the original, SD experience with no enhancements (other than maybe framerate).
Let's not defend Sony's shitty emulator, games like Primal and Ape Escape 2 are a glitch fest on Ps5 and they use Hardware rendering, a few upscaling inaccuracies on PCSX2 are nothing compared to Sony's bufgfest emulator.
 
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Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Let's not defend Sony's shitty emulator, games like Primal and Ape Escape 2 are a glitch fest on Ps5 and they use Hardware rendering
Yes but that's a problem with PS5 compatibility - the emulator has been largely broken and never fixed (well - presumably the new releases are aimed to address PS5 compatibility).

a few upscaling inaccuracies on PCSX2 are nothing compared to Sony's bufgfest emulator.
Upscaling is the least of PCSX2s problems - plenty of bugs are as bad as how Primal runs - but agreed this isn't the thread to discuss this. I was just making a point that there's no free lunch - even if Sony were to use PCSX2, they'd have a compatibility mountain to climb.

Anyway, on topic.
Just tested the 3 new games - it's running the same 4x resolution + AA as the prior releases (yes, Sly Cooper is higher-res too). Frontend is clearly new (and we have PS5 specific downloads now - so presumably they won't be bugged to hell anymore on PS5) but yea - graphics enhancements look identical. I would have liked to see 4k (at least as an option) - but ah well.
Framerate I can't really tell much from these - they are locked to 30/60fps respectively. Sly doesn't have the same slow-downs PS2 used to have in 1st level - but I haven't played beyond 5 minutes in yet.
Seems like all games have a NTSC/PAL selection at runtime, which is interesting to see, that's not something PS2 originals normally allowed (Sony US would explicitly forbid releasing games with both modes), so it seems like there's a bit of extra work being put into this, which is nice to see. Note that basically every modern TV is 50hz native as well - so PAL option can actually an interesting choice for PS2 games in this case to fiddle with - it's not going to be a judder fest or run slowed down.

Now - hopefully Sony isn't run by idiots and actually updates the existing games on the service - I would like to actually play Primal again properly.
 

GametimeUK

Member
See above - Sony's been doing the increased resolution thing on all their emulated titles since 2014 - they already set the expectation on these releases, so going backwards on it is beyond strange.

Correct. I recall GTA San Andreas being one of those titles if I'm not mistaken. However like you say going backwards is beyond strange and especially since Microsoft have set the new standards in this regard. The resolution scales a lot higher in some legacy MS titles and on top of that we have FPS boost on a few too.

So yeah I'd really appreciate to see Sony get things back on track. Ape Escape PS1 on PS5 looked pretty clean as did Killzone Liberation from what I remember.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Now people are saying the screenshots on PSN are from the PS3 version 🙄
They obviously don't remember what the PS3 version looks like
LX1yDII.png
umbUOph.png

Textures are flat and muddy on the PSN version, just higher resolution
 
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Esppiral

Member
Now people are saying the screenshots on PSN are from the PS3 version 🙄
They obviously don't remember what the PS3 version looks like
LX1yDII.png
umbUOph.png

Textures are flat and muddy on the PSN version, just higher resolution
No, those screenshots are not from the PS2 version....
 

Perrott

Member
LOL Primal PS2 running on PS4 is up rendered to 720p (it shows) at least... either it is an exaggeration or a regression (possible if they put a team of less than competent devs on it and rushed them).
I believe Primal on the PS4 is 1080p (the PS4's native resolution; at the time of the PS2>PS4 Classics there wasn't a Pro), just like other classics.
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
U people sure are picky , after reading this threat i was expecting a shiity game and im loving it so far. This even has trophies...which is amazing
No the game is great, it's the Emulator not working that people are talking about.
It should be displaying at 4K but it's displaying at 480p
Game definitely playable and kidna looks nice still and you will get used to the lower res but you're missing out on better resolution and performance which would make it shine which should be there
 

TGO

Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
I believe Primal on the PS4 is 1080p (the PS4's native resolution; at the time of the PS2>PS4 Classics there wasn't a Pro), just like other classics.
The PS4 PS2 classics are 1292×896 then upscaled to 1080p
 

Crayon

Member
There was a point around 2013 that I was pretty must busted down to a PS2 and a Wii. Had to find really cheap games, too. I like this one a lot.

Hopefully that emulator can do a little better than this because I already have the game in 480 on that PS2.
 

ZehDon

Member
So, my PC version has better visuals, better features, better frame rate, and costs 1/10 the price, and emulating the PS2 copy some folks already own delivers dramatically better results using emulators that literally cost nothing, and people are ... happy with Sony's offerings? Heh, you do you, I suppose.
 
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delfrickintree

Gold Member
Yes but that's a problem with PS5 compatibility - the emulator has been largely broken and never fixed (well - presumably the new releases are aimed to address PS5 compatibility).


Upscaling is the least of PCSX2s problems - plenty of bugs are as bad as how Primal runs - but agreed this isn't the thread to discuss this. I was just making a point that there's no free lunch - even if Sony were to use PCSX2, they'd have a compatibility mountain to climb.

Anyway, on topic.
Just tested the 3 new games - it's running the same 4x resolution + AA as the prior releases (yes, Sly Cooper is higher-res too). Frontend is clearly new (and we have PS5 specific downloads now - so presumably they won't be bugged to hell anymore on PS5) but yea - graphics enhancements look identical. I would have liked to see 4k (at least as an option) - but ah well.
Framerate I can't really tell much from these - they are locked to 30/60fps respectively. Sly doesn't have the same slow-downs PS2 used to have in 1st level - but I haven't played beyond 5 minutes in yet.
Seems like all games have a NTSC/PAL selection at runtime, which is interesting to see, that's not something PS2 originals normally allowed (Sony US would explicitly forbid releasing games with both modes), so it seems like there's a bit of extra work being put into this, which is nice to see. Note that basically every modern TV is 50hz native as well - so PAL option can actually an interesting choice for PS2 games in this case to fiddle with - it's not going to be a judder fest or run slowed down.

Now - hopefully Sony isn't run by idiots and actually updates the existing games on the service - I would like to actually play Primal again properly.
Meanwhile customers like me who wouldve kept my premium subscription or even bought the classic game for $20 are switching over to more interesting and efficient platforms. I dont care about their technical woes when it literally runs better on an open source emulator for free. Suck it
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
The PS4 PS2 classics are 1292×896 then upscaled to 1080p
Those that ran at 640x448.
Its a 4x resolution so you get a range of outputs depending on the game.
Eg. like Sly, Dark Cloud is interlaced and gets something like 1024x448.

Hopefully that emulator can do a little better than this because I already have the game in 480 on that PS2.
Well PS2 never ran the game in 480 to begin with (see above) and emulator does 4x resolution on it - but yea it really should do better at least on PS5 versions.
 
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