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Last year Jill Stein and Gen. Mike Flynn has dinner with Vladimir Putin.

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kess

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Aug 3, 2013
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I could give less of a fuck about Stein, but Flynn was barely a year off being the man in charge of the Defense Intelligence Agency, which (then and now) considers Russia a large risk for hacking attacks.
 

ultratruman

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Oct 28, 2013
3,481
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I could give less of a fuck about Stein, but Flynn was barely a year off being the man in charge of the Defense Intelligence Agency, which (then and now) considers Russia a large risk for hacking attacks.

Flynn was actually canned from centcom.
 

Quixzlizx

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Jul 6, 2006
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I don't think anybody in this thread is pro-Putin. Realize that you can be critical of Hillary (and the United States!) without supporting their even less ethical enemies.

I don't think anyone is pro-Putin as in wishing he was the leader of their country, but there's a portion of GAF who are at least happy with his existence as someone who geopolitically opposes the West.
 

Piecake

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Jun 11, 2004
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Yes, the observation that smear and bullshit has been flooding the internet the last few weeks is a conspiracy theory.

Oh look, I'm posting in a thread desperately and not so subtly trying to imply terrible things about Stein because she was in a dinner with a world leader.

Flooding the internet? lol.

So, wait, Stein can't be criticized on her positions? She can't be mocked if some of her positions are ridiculous? She can't be called a loon if she thinks Russia follows international law, human rights, and wants peace? And it is America's fault that the world is not a place of peace and happiness?

Is she a candidate for the presidency or not? She doesn't get a pass just because you agree with her more

She is getting more attention because a greater percentage of people, especially younger people are considering voting for her, and that she is specifically attacking Hilary to peel off votes. She certainly has the right to do that, but it shouldn't shock people that some people are actually going to bother to look at what Jill Stein actually says and believes. Hell, that's what she wants!

Apparently people can't hurt poor Jill Stein's feelings though. They can only do that to Hilary and Trump
 

JABEE

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May 19, 2010
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645
Not a good look. It's funny how everything circles back. Trump is in league with the Russians. Now Jill Stein.

Look at Patriots owner Robert Kraft and Rupert Murdoch.

 

TaterTots

Banned
Jun 14, 2015
4,199
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325
You ever think you're the problem, not the site?

I don't make posts claiming people are "Trump supporter stupid." Instead of having an actual debate and educating someone, people like to just call someone "stupid." I haven't done this. Democrats are obviously aggressive as hell here. Also, there is simply a major lack of diversity. That's ok. I've rarely seen an Republican post. It's obviously for good reason. I'm simply bowing out of political discussions on this forum. You're more often attacked than having a productive conversation if you oppose a left wingers view.
 

Valhelm

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I don't think anyone is pro-Putin as in wishing he was the leader of their country, but there's a portion of GAF who are at least happy with his existence as someone who geopolitically opposes the West.

No, not really. What you're saying is just as ridiculous and just as unfounded as the constant right-wing claims that "liberals support Islamic terror".

Leftists generally believe that Putin and his stooges are worse than the alternative, given their predilection for illiberal domestic policy and foreign aggression. Usually, leftists just wish there was a viable, ethical alternative to US-led neoliberalism.

You don't seem to realize that criticism of Western violence is not an endorsement of non-Western violence.
 

Piecake

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Jun 11, 2004
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Not a good look. It's funny how everything circles back. Trump is in league with the Russians. Now Jill Stein.

Look at Patriots owner Robert Kraft and Rupert Murdoch.


Its funny how everything seems to circle back to a straw man argument as well.
 

darkace

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Jun 17, 2014
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No, not really. What you're saying is just as ridiculous and just as unfounded as the constant right-wing claims that "liberals support Islamic terror".

Leftists generally believe that Putin and his stooges are worse than the alternative, given their predilection for illiberal domestic policy and foreign aggression. Usually, leftists just wish there was a viable, ethical alternative to US-led neoliberalism.

Like Obama or Clinton?
 

Quixzlizx

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Jul 6, 2006
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No, not really. What you're saying is just as ridiculous and just as unfounded as the constant right-wing claims that "liberals support Islamic terror".

Leftists generally believe that Putin and his stooges are worse than the alternative, given their predilection for illiberal domestic policy and foreign aggression. Usually, leftists just wish there was a viable, ethical alternative to US-led neoliberalism.

You don't seem to realize that criticism of Western violence is not an endorsement of non-Western violence.

There are several posters who say that Russia wouldn't have to act the way it does if it weren't for the US/NATO/EU bullying them. I guess I'm willing to read between the lines more than you are? Because arguments like that don't really seem like they represent the line of thought you're claiming.
 

royalan

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Jan 19, 2011
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I don't make posts claiming people are "Trump supporter stupid." Instead of having an actual debate and educating someone, people like to just call someone "stupid." I haven't done this. Also, there is simply a major lack of diversity here. That's ok. I've rarely seen an Republican post. It's obviously for good reason.

People aren't calling you stupid.

They're claiming (and for good reason) that this particular opinion you hold is not very reasonable...or, well, stupid.

Rather than cry about being attacked, defend your opinion with facts and sound logic. If you can't do that, ask yourself why you value this opinion in the first place
 
Oct 13, 2012
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Yes, the observation that smear and bullshit has been flooding the internet the last few weeks is a conspiracy theory.

Oh look, I'm posting in a thread desperately and not so subtly trying to imply terrible things about Stein because she was in a dinner with a world leader.

Who would've thought that people would focus on someone when they are running for President? As she has worked to raise her visibility, critiques have surfaced in kind. That's just how this works.

I am not trying to imply anything by this thread, by the way. I am explicitly saying that she is an idiot.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
Nov 23, 2015
31,114
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The real elephant in the room no one is talking about is Gary Johnson meeting with Cthulhu for a ritual baby sacrifice.
 

hawk2025

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Jan 20, 2013
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Yes, the observation that smear and bullshit has been flooding the internet the last few weeks is a conspiracy theory.

Oh look, I'm posting in a thread desperately and not so subtly trying to imply terrible things about Stein because she was in a dinner with a world leader.


She went to the anniversary dinner of a propaganda station a year after Russia invaded Crimea, while running as the anti-war candidate.

You can't spin out of this one by ratcheting up the righteous indignation and calling it "smear and bullshit" when there's undeniable evidence of what happened and the candidate is not even pretending she didn't go.

There is no smear and no bullshit. She literally recorded a completely delusional video on how proud she was of attending this event.

I'm not implying anything about Stein, I'm saying it outright: This shows a complete and utter lack of common sense and self-awareness on her part. Absolutely no amount of whataboutisms will change that.
 

Piecake

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Jun 11, 2004
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I absolutely don't think it's a good look for Kraft or Murdoch.

No one is saying in this thread that Stein is a Russian/Putin stooge. To claim that, or say that this implies that is simply a straw man. You are reducing the stances of people in this thread to an absurdity to argue against it. There is such things as a nuanced stance.

People are claiming that she looks like one of those people on the left (and her VP is certainly one of those people) that are extremely skeptical of anything the West does and treats any negative press towards its enemies as Western Propaganda.

This is a delusion and leads these people to accept the narrative and propaganda of America's enemies, when a number of those enemies (Russia particularly) are worse, especially in terms of human rights.
 
Apr 27, 2009
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No one is saying in this thread that Stein is a Russian/Putin stooge. To claim that, or say that this implies that is simply a straw man. You are reducing the stances of people in this thread to an absurdity to argue against it. There is such things as a nuanced stance.

People are claiming that she looks like one of those people on the left (and her VP is certainly one of those people) that are extremely skeptical of anything the West does and treats any negative press towards its enemies as Western Propaganda.

his is a delusion and leads these people to accept the narrative and propaganda of America's enemies, when a number of those enemies (Russia particularly) are worse, especially in terms of human rights.

Don't worry he's cooking up a real juicy sarcastic shitpost to serve up to you in response.
 

Valhelm

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There are several posters who say that Russia wouldn't have to act the way it does if it weren't for the US/NATO/EU bullying them. I guess I'm willing to read between the lines more than you are? Because arguments like that don't really seem like they represent the line of thought you're claiming.

Those posters generally aren't leftists. Putin's Western fanboys are right-wing.
 

nubbe

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Jun 7, 2004
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Russia is slowly infiltrating every branch of the US government
soon they will control the presidency
 

Quixzlizx

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Jul 6, 2006
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Those posters generally aren't leftists. Putin's Western fanboys are right-wing.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, because there are self-identified communists who have made these arguments on GAF (although I'm not going to call out individual posters who aren't even participating in this thread).

Putin himself is a far-right leader, but there are the "useful idiots" I previously mentioned whose highest priority is opposing the West, and it leads to them taking hypocritical positions. Julian Assange and that reporter he's connected to whose name I forget are two other examples.

Putin also funds both far-right and far-left movements in Europe. He doesn't care about your ideology as long as you're willing to destabilize your government. It just so happens that Trump is his best bet in the US.
 

Piecake

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Proving that a minority believe in conspiracy theories is something that we already knew. So yea, you technically proved me wrong, but if you were trying to prove his point you certainly didnt do that. Taking a small minority opinion and then saying that is the opinion of everyone is also a straw man.
 

antonz

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May 12, 2010
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She has never held an office higher than a city council member. Yet somehow she is so important that Russian TV pays her etc. She hangs out with Vladimir Putin and goes on and on about how America is a problem while touting Russia as a shining city on the hill.

That's enough proof that at best she is a useful idiot. Which really isn't much of a compliment in and of itself.
 

pigeon

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Feb 14, 2011
19,361
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I don't think anyone is pro-Putin as in wishing he was the leader of their country, but there's a portion of GAF who are at least happy with his existence as someone who geopolitically opposes the West.

In fairness, that portion of GAF works for Putin.
 

watershed

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Mar 12, 2011
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Slightly off-topic, I have a friend who truly, truly believes that RT is an ideologically free news site and thus the only news site that can be trusted. I mean, why would anyone ever think RT doesn't have any ideological or political motivations? And why do conspiracy minded Americans seemingly all drift to RT as their most trusted news site? Why is Russian media suddenly more true than any other media?

Flynn being there is more concerning than Stein being there btw. Especially given his Trump connection. It's not even a secret at this point that Trump is unwittingly being influenced by Putin on foreign policy because all it takes to sway Trump is a ton of money, a dick attitude, and some kind words for Trump.
 

Nivash

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Nov 13, 2013
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For some reason, I never bothered to look up what the Green platform on international policy was before now. I knew they were isolationist but Jesus Christ, it's way worse than I thought. Here are the worst ideas in the order they're presented:

http://www.gp.org/democracy#demForeignPolicy

1. Remove the UN Security Council veto. This would effectively break the UN and likely trigger a similar exodus to what happened with the League of Nations.

2. Complete unilateral nuclear disarmament. This would basically end the US as a global stabilising force in an instant and leave tons of allies without a nuclear deterrent, leaving room for other nuclear nations like Russia and China to pretty much do as they wish in the short term. In the longer term, it basically has the same outcome as when Trump said that Japan and South Korea should get nukes: widespread, panicked nuclear proliferation.

3. End all weapon sales to foreign countries. And yes, there is no qualifier in this - they really mean any sale to any country. This would essentially paralyse the military forces of every single western aligned nation in the world because that's how wide-spread US systems and critical components are. Smaller nations like Norway would be left without any kind of functional air force for instance, because it's reliant on US fighters needing US replacement parts. This is an astoundingly bone headed suggestion.

4. The Domestic Security and Space sections also include suggestions that 9/11 needs to be reviewed ("including the role of the administration of George W, Bush, various U.S. based corporations and interests, and other nations and third parties") which comes off as trutherish and further suggestions that the space program has been co-opted by military projects like the Strategic Defense Initiative. I want to highlight this because of the obvious loonieness of 9/11 thrutherism and the pure absurdity of even mentioning the SDI considering that the damn thing never went into any kind of production and hasn't been seriously discussed since the Cold War. It simply reveals just how ignorant the party seems to be on security and foreign policy matters.

...

So in summary: a faithful execution of the Green platform would essentially break the world by completely removing the stabilising effect of not US, but western, power. No wonder Stein felt at home with RT. This is essentially Putin's wet dream in manifesto format.
 

darkace

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Jun 17, 2014
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So in summary: a faithful execution of the Green platform would essentially break the world by completely removing the stabilising effect of not US, but western, power. No wonder Stein felt at home with RT. This is essentially Putin's wet dream in manifesto format.

Lol look at you try and smear the Green Party through red scare fearmongering. We know you're just working for our neoliberal overlords to prevent a true leftist challenge to the Democrats.
 

Nivash

Member
Nov 13, 2013
3,212
5
0
Lol look at you try and smear the Green Party through red scare fearmongering. We know you're just working for our neoliberal overlords to prevent a true leftist challenge to the Democrats.

Blast, you've seen through my clever ruse! It seems I must make haste back to my hideout and come up with another dastardly plan now that you foiled this one.

,,,and I would've gotten away with it too, if weren't for you meddling ki- whatever you are.
 

JABEE

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May 19, 2010
44,036
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645
Don't worry he's cooking up a real juicy sarcastic shitpost to serve up to you in response.
I wasn't being sarcastic. It is not a good political position to be in if you are associating yourself with Putin. It's a reflection on Kraft and Murdoch.
 

BajiBoxer

Banned
Dec 5, 2007
4,612
0
0
Columbus, Ohio
She has never held an office higher than a city council member. Yet somehow she is so important that Russian TV pays her etc. She hangs out with Vladimir Putin and goes on and on about how America is a problem while touting Russia as a shining city on the hill.

That's enough proof that at best she is a useful idiot. Which really isn't much of a compliment in and of itself.

Just wanted to point out the office she held was "Town Hall Meeting Representative". Won a seat with a whole 539 votes.
 

Phantast2k

Member
Jul 26, 2006
9,369
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0
Flynn reacted rather thin-skinned to this:
Top Trump adviser defends payment for Russian speaking engagement [Video]

I wouldn't call Jill a useful idiot. She benefits directly from the cooperation with Russia and RT:
It's pretty obvious to me that Stein is a puzzle piece in Russia's plan to influence US elections.
We've just seen the blueprint for that in the Brexit referendum where a fringe left-wing politician (Corbyn) who is openly aligned to Russia and who regularly goes on the "question more" network, weakened the remain camp to give a more favorable outcome to the Kremlin.
The same is true for Stein only in regards to splitting the left vote to help Trump.

When it comes to those outcomes favored by Russia in UK & US (and the right-wingers involved), the alignment to Kremlin is less direct and obvious. At the same time, UKIP's links to Russia are way more subtle than Trump's. Nonetheless, Trump's advisory and VP candidate Flynn did not shy away from going right into RT's ass (and neither did Jill Stein):

 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
Jul 23, 2010
30,991
13
720
www.metal-archives.com
For some reason, I never bothered to look up what the Green platform on international policy was before now. I knew they were isolationist but Jesus Christ, it's way worse than I thought. Here are the worst ideas in the order they're presented:

http://www.gp.org/democracy#demForeignPolicy

1. Remove the UN Security Council veto. This would effectively break the UN and likely trigger a similar exodus to what happened with the League of Nations.

2. Complete unilateral nuclear disarmament. This would basically end the US as a global stabilising force in an instant and leave tons of allies without a nuclear deterrent, leaving room for other nuclear nations like Russia and China to pretty much do as they wish in the short term. In the longer term, it basically has the same outcome as when Trump said that Japan and South Korea should get nukes: widespread, panicked nuclear proliferation.

3. End all weapon sales to foreign countries. And yes, there is no qualifier in this - they really mean any sale to any country. This would essentially paralyse the military forces of every single western aligned nation in the world because that's how wide-spread US systems and critical components are. Smaller nations like Norway would be left without any kind of functional air force for instance, because it's reliant on US fighters needing US replacement parts. This is an astoundingly bone headed suggestion.

4. The Domestic Security and Space sections also include suggestions that 9/11 needs to be reviewed ("including the role of the administration of George W, Bush, various U.S. based corporations and interests, and other nations and third parties") which comes off as trutherish and further suggestions that the space program has been co-opted by military projects like the Strategic Defense Initiative. I want to highlight this because of the obvious loonieness of 9/11 thrutherism and the pure absurdity of even mentioning the SDI considering that the damn thing never went into any kind of production and hasn't been seriously discussed since the Cold War. It simply reveals just how ignorant the party seems to be on security and foreign policy matters.

...

So in summary: a faithful execution of the Green platform would essentially break the world by completely removing the stabilising effect of not US, but western, power. No wonder Stein felt at home with RT. This is essentially Putin's wet dream in manifesto format.
LOL, what the fuck. Every time I learn more about Stein and her party, I am astounded at how terrible she is. Starting to think that Gary "the free market can fix climate change" Johnson is nowhere near as bad as her now. So much for "fuck both parties, I'm going 3rd party" rhetoric. Your 3rd parties suck too! Even more so than the Democratic party.

The best part is the truther bit. Like... Green Party, could you be more of an extreme-left caricature? Good grief.
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
For some reason, I never bothered to look up what the Green platform on international policy was before now. I knew they were isolationist but Jesus Christ, it's way worse than I thought. Here are the worst ideas in the order they're presented:
The isolationist stuff was the biggest commonality between the insurgent campaigns on the left and right this year.
 

mo60

Member
Jun 2, 2013
6,142
0
0
LOL, what the fuck. Every time I learn more about Stein and her party, I am astounded at how terrible she is. Starting to think that Gary "the free market can fix climate change" Johnson is nowhere near as bad as her now. So much for "fuck both parties, I'm going 3rd party" rhetoric. Your 3rd parties suck too! Even more so than the Democratic party.

The best part is the truther bit. Like... Green Party, could you be more of an extreme-left caricature? Good grief.

I actually like gary a lot more than both Stein and Trump despite some of his policies. I despise both trump and stein. I despise stein after learning more about her this year.

Anyway this is kinda shocking. I never knew stein would be at something like this before I saw this yesterday.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
Oct 30, 2007
12,845
1
1,050
I care nothing about Stein, but bashing her for partaking in foreign relations is odd. We should attack Obama as well I guess.

She is supposed to be uber progressive left winng.

Attending a celebratory dinner with Putin is super bizarre to say the least.

So I can see Putin's interest in the Green Party. What is Stein's interest in Putin??
 

Steel

Banned
Jun 20, 2013
19,664
1
0
I actually like gary a lot more than both Stein and Trump despite some of his policies. I despise both trump and stein. I despise stein after learning more about her this year.

Anyway this is kinda shocking. I never knew stein would be at something like this before I saw this yesterday.

Agreed. I don't really like Johnson mind and have major issues with a lot of his policy positions, but from what I've seen of the town hall he thinks through his positions a lot more sanely than the batshit out of the green party.

She is supposed to be uber progressive left winng.

Attending a celebratory dinner with Putin is super bizarre to say the least.

So I can see Putin's interest in the Green Party. What is Stein's interest in Putin??

Honestly, my assumption is that she wanted to be seen as having some foreign policy experience and Putin was the only one willing to invite her to an event that can be construed as a meeting of the minds.
 
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