Latest Speculation from "known sources" points to Navi(GPU in next-gen consoles) having issues.

Leonidas

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This is the TLDR of the latest video posted by AdoredTV(an individual who has known sources who have been correct in the past).

If true, this is terrible news for PC gamers and next-generation console gamers.

I hope it's not true but given the history, I would not be surprised if it is...
 

bitbydeath

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I wouldn’t read much into it.
Navi is a series and they’re likely looking at the lowest powered version of it.

Navi 20 is the one likely going in consoles (or at least PS5) as that is said to be the one that supports Ray Tracing.
 
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Jun 9, 2012
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Wouldn’t be that surprising if true. Vega 20/Radeon VII are 7nm and have terrible performance/watt.

What this rumor suggests is that Navi is an incremental refinement of Vega 20, and not as big of an increment as we were hoping for.
 
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Afro Republican

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I'm telling you Ms is going to likely deal with someone else. If AMD is still on board it will be Ryzen and that's it Imo.

Unless Amd worked with MS for unique hardware that's NOT NAVI. That would be interesting, and likely cause Sony to skip Amd for any future hardware.
 
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Insane Metal

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Oh and I forgot to say. According to Coreteks (look for them on YT) NAVI has been publicly regarded as a mainstream product by AMD and not highend GPUs, so no one should really be expecting much from that.
 
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I'm telling you Ms is going to likely deal with someone else. If AMD is still on board it will be Ryzen and that's it Imo.

Unless Amd worked with MS for unique hardware that's NOT NAVI. That would be interesting, and likely cause Sony to skip Amd for any future hardware.
I hope this is true just to make things more interesting for next generation. This generation both systems were basically just variations of each other.

Let’s have it. MS using Intel Xe with dedicated hardware raytracing and neural network inferencing.
 

Leonidas

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Navi 20 is the one likely going in consoles (or at least PS5) as that is said to be the one that supports Ray Tracing.
AMD has stated they plan to bring ray-tracing to all price points. Until AMD announces otherwise I see no reason to believe anything other than all Navi GPUs will have the same support for ray-tracing.

Apparently this dude if full of shit.
He usually over-hypes AMD products before getting the full picture... then he backpedals expectations after getting more detailed info from multiple sources... that seems to be what happened here.
 
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SonGoku

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Sounds fake tbh, if navi was half as bad as he claims, we would be hearing all over the places just like when nvidia fermi was having issues.
Its not uncommon for people that got things right in the past trying to pass their researched speculation as leaks, even more so if it means bringing attention to a yt channel.
 
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bitbydeath

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AMD has stated they plan to bring ray-tracing to all price points. Until AMD announces otherwise I see no reason to believe anything other than all Navi GPUs will have the same support for ray-tracing.

The below link suggest that Navi 10 releasing this year won’t support Ray Tracing but Navi 20 launching next year will.


As PS5 is confirmed to support Ray Tracing then it makes sense that Navi 20 is what you’ll find in the PS5.
 

Leonidas

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Sounds fake tbh, if navi was half as bad as he claims, news it would be all over the places just like when nvidia fermi was having issues.
According to the latest speculation Navi is about on par with Turing in terms of efficiency. Turing is currently the most power efficient GPU in the world, Navi getting close or slightly surpassing Turing in that metric would not be seen as bad.



It's only bad if you look at it from the point that it took AMD to get to 7nm to match Nvidia at 12nm and that Nvidia can likely easily regain that crown(if lost).
 
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SonGoku

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According to the latest speculation Navi is about on par with Turing in terms of efficiency. Turing is currently the most power efficient GPU in the world, Navi getting close or slightly surpassing Turing in that metric would not be seen as bad.



It's only bad if you look at it from the point that it took AMD to get to 7nm to match Nvidia at 12nm and that Nvidia will likely retake that crown(if Navi surpasses) as soon as the next Nvidia GPU launches.
Sounds good to me considering its still gcn and a massive improvement over vega 7
 

Leonidas

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Sounds good to me considering its still gcn and a massive improvement over vega 7
Turing launched a year ago with similar perf/watt, if the list is true. 7nm in H2 2019 on par with 12nm in H2 2018 is not good. That is a year wait just to be on par with the competing product...
It looks good compared to Radeon VII because Radeon VII is a power hog, despite being on 7nm.
 
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lukilladog

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Meh, it´s gonna be considerable better than actual consoles so everybody is gonna love it anyway, and on the pc side, even if they come with some really crappy gpu´s, nvidia will just use the oportunity to milk their own tech, nothing changes.
 
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It would mean that either we get bigger consoles than expected, due to cooling, or they (Sony, MS) will have to concede on performance ... both are in the same boat :-/ The other option is to delay to late 2020, and hope for AMD to resolve their issues.
 

SonGoku

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Turing launched a year ago with similar perf/watt, if the list is true. 7nm in H2 2019 on par with 12nm in H2 2018 is not good. That is a year wait just to be on par with the competing product...
It looks good compared to Radeon VII because Radeon VII is a power hog, despite being on 7nm.
Wait tha shot is from the YT video? I take back what i said.
 

wordslaughter

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The below link suggest that Navi 10 releasing this year won’t support Ray Tracing but Navi 20 launching next year will.


As PS5 is confirmed to support Ray Tracing then it makes sense that Navi 20 is what you’ll find in the PS5.
We don't know to what extent the PS5 will support ray tracing.

Are you expecting the PS5's GPU to have at least 60CUs just like a 180+ watt ( which seems very optmistic IMO ) dedicated GPU but we're just gonna get all that in APU form ... and at the same time.... and for a lower price?
 
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Stuart360

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It would mean that either we get bigger consoles than expected, due to cooling, or they (Sony, MS) will have to concede on performance ... both are in the same boat :-/ The other option is to delay to late 2020, and hope for AMD to resolve their issues.
Delay?, when were you expecting the console to launch?
 

wordslaughter

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It's possible that the PS5 GPU is based on Big Navi. But it won't be 60CU. The only way they would be able to afford it would be a cut own part, maybe 42 or 48 CUs so they can salvage dies. They will also be running at a lower clock speed allowing them to salvage even more dies that can't be used as desktop parts. I'm still skeptical that Big Navi ( desktop ) will manage a 180 watt envelope while retaining Radeon 7 performance. AMD dont have a good track record of electrically efficient GPU's. Prove me wrong AMD.
 
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It's not like there was ever a miracle waiting with the 16th revision of GCN.

Raja Koduri probably de-camped for Intel because he was tired of babysitting warmed-over GCN for 10 years while he waited for Ryzen to succeed and finally get RTG actual funding that could be used on actual development of new products.
 

Panajev2001a

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AMD has stated they plan to bring ray-tracing to all price points.
Which is compatible with what occurred with PS4 and PS4 GPU’s: features co-developed / co-funded by Sony are simply premiering on PlayStation (in terms of console HW at least), but will be a part of all future AMD GPU’s... yep, semi-custom HW timed exclusive ;)
 
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stetiger

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If this is true, do you guys think that sony and/or microsoft might look elsewhere for future consoles? Or could amd still provide them those chips but at a discount?

If those rumors become a reality, most of the features that make amd appealing will start to diminish. In Fact, Nvidia has proven that their gpu can draw much less power and still be effective, see the nintendo switch
 

Foxbat

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Which is compatible with what occurred with PS4 and PS4 GPU’s: features co-developed / co-funded by Sony are simply premiering on PlayStation (in terms of console HW at least), but will be a part of all future AMD GPU’s... yep, semi-custom HW timed exclusive ;)
So do you think both the PS5 and next box will have hardware based RT?
 

Boss Mog

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If this is true, do you guys think that sony and/or microsoft might look elsewhere for future consoles? Or could amd still provide them those chips but at a discount?

If those rumors become a reality, most of the features that make amd appealing will start to diminish. In Fact, Nvidia has proven that their gpu can draw much less power and still be effective, see the nintendo switch
The main reason both MS and Sony go with AMD is because they don't really have a choice. To meet cost and power draw targets, they have to use an APU, and AMD is the only company that makes APUs with decent iGPUs. nVidia doesn't make CPUs and Intel iGPUs are trash for now.
 

stetiger

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The main reason both MS and Sony go with AMD is because they don't really have a choice. To meet cost and power draw targets, they have to use an APU, and AMD is the only company that makes APUs with decent iGPUs. nVidia doesn't make CPUs and Intel iGPUs are trash for now.
I disagree with that. A jaguar cpu at 15W TDP paired with an rx480 on the pro manages to draw more power than an RTX2060 with a 4 chip ryzen underclocked. I think the APU was a bet that just isn't coming to fruition. If APUs were so great there would be tons of them on servers and far more on laptops. They would be used in far more industries as they would arrive to the same conclusion. In 2012, the APUs were the best option but that has not been true for a while now.
 
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wordslaughter

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I disagree with that. A jaguar cpu at 15W TDP paired with an rx480 on the pro manages to draw more power than an RTX2060 with a 4 chip ryzen underclocked. I think the APU was a bet that just isn't coming to fruition. If APUs were so great there would be tons of them on servers and far more on laptops. They would be used in far more industries as they would arrive to the same conclusion. In 2012, the APUs were the best option but that has not been true for a while now.
I think maybe you're speaking just a little too soon. APU's are about to become a lot more popular IMO. They will eat up the low end as iGPU's did and in short order will eat up the mid range too. Maybe one day all Nvidia will have left is a fairly niche and very expensive high end GPU for enthusiasts. Maybe everyone else is running an APU or streaming from the cloud.

Why do you think Intel and Samsung are putting so many resources into GPU development lately? They are looking to get into the APU game too.

Nvidia has burned their bridges already. Microsoft went with them once but they couldn't play nice. Wouldn't let MS alter or consolidate the parts into an SOC as it became possible not allowing them to minimize costs as the gen moved on. Intel is also not known for playing nice or being reasonable with pricing.

Only AMD allows the consolidation of a quality CPU and GPU on one APU. And they bend over backward to make custom parts o fit their customers needs. Intel and Nvidia are too arrogant.
 
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stetiger

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I think maybe you're speaking just a little too soon. APU's are about to become a lot more popular IMO. They will eat up the low end as iGPU's did and in short order will eat up the mid range too. Maybe one day all Nvidia will have left is a fairly niche and very expensive high end GPU for enthusiasts. Maybe everyone else is running an APU or streaming from the cloud.

Why do you think Intel and Samsung are putting so many resources into GPU development lately? They are looking to get into the APU game too.
I think they are looking for different functions in the APU market. If there were demonstrable performance to be gained from APUs I would expect Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon and various others would be spending billions on it right now. The fact that they haven't and that manufacturers are not requesting them is telling. A product is built to serve a market, not create it.
 

Boss Mog

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I disagree with that. A jaguar cpu at 15W TDP paired with an rx480 on the pro manages to draw more power than an RTX2060 with a 4 chip ryzen underclocked. I think the APU was a bet that just isn't coming to fruition. If APUs were so great there would be tons of them on servers and far more on laptops. They would be used in far more industries as they would arrive to the same conclusion. In 2012, the APUs were the best option but that has not been true for a while now.
1 chip is cheaper than 2 chips, and using 2 chips from different companies is going to complicate things. on the PC side APUs make less sense because they are underpowered due to the fact that content isn't developed specifically for them and instead must cater to a very large diversity of hardware configurations. If you want to game on a laptop an APU isn't gonna cut it, so a dGPU is necessary, but on consoles APUs are powerful enough because everybody has the same hardware and content is coded specifically for that hardware.
 

Freeman454

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If true, this is terrible news for PC gamers and next-generation console gamers.
Nah, just skip navi and get the successor.

Navi 20 is the one likely going in consoles
That was supposed to be Navi10Lite for pos5. High end doesnt make sense as it wont even be ready, and with that power draw...

I think ppl got abit too excited after Cernys PR on ps5.

Im waiting for Navi to upgrade, if it sucks i just get a RTX 2060 along with Zen 2 CPU
Wait for zen3 16c/32t high clocked, supports pcie4.0, and get navi successor, or nvidia 3000 series.

PS4 ran an APU with Jaguar cores meant for netbooks and a weak AMD GPU and yet we got games that looked as good at Uncharted 4, God of War, Spider-man, etc... So I'm not worried about PS5 at all, it's going to be a massive leap.
All those were 30fps though. That and 4k and dimishing returns, and we dont come from a ps3 with funky hardware/extreme low amounts of ram.

Which is compatible with what occurred with PS4 and PS4 GPU’s: features co-developed / co-funded by Sony are simply premiering on PlayStation (in terms of console HW at least), but will be a part of all future AMD GPU’s... yep, semi-custom HW timed exclusive ;)
First of all thats a rumor. Second, AMD wouldnt do that with RT. Its probably some CU modification, limited RT.
 
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wordslaughter

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I think they are looking for different functions in the APU market. If there were demonstrable performance to be gained from APUs I would expect Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon and various others would be spending billions on it right now. The fact that they haven't and that manufacturers are not requesting them is telling. A product is built to serve a market, not create it.
Manufacturers not requesting them? Do MS and Sony buying hundreds of millions of them not count? Also IMO with the rise of Zen, AMD CPU's are now as efficient or more than Intel's offerings and can be paired with more powerful GPUs than Intel can offer. I think we will see AMD APU's in an increasing number of laptops over the coming years.

People who just want to play the latest MMO or Fortnite/eSports title may find that an APU that can play them at 1080p 60fps ( coming soon ) at a reasonable price will be a very compelling option. Not everyone will care to or can afford to chase 4k or high refresh gaming. :)
 

bitbydeath

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That was supposed to be Navi10Lite for pos5. High end doesnt make sense as it wont even be ready, and with that power draw...

I think ppl got abit too excited after Cernys PR on ps5.
It’s already confirmed to support Ray Tracing. 10 isn’t confirmed to have this ability.
 

Panajev2001a

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First of all thats a rumor. Second, AMD wouldnt do that with RT. Its probably some CU modification, limited RT.
Which is the future of RT in GPU’s add the least amount of fixed function HW that is flexible enough to speed key raytracing algorithms up as well other kinds of graphics processing.