• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Lawsuits could force feds to pay Obamacare insurers (Politico)

TheOfficeMut

Unconfirmed Member
Aug 21, 2014
6,661
0
0
If the DNC wasn't full of chicken shit centrists we'd be working towards a first world healthcare solution.

You're so narrow minded and incapable of recognizing why we are in the situation we are in. Let's not blame the people that voted for the current clownshow, noooooo.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Jun 19, 2014
8,896
1
320
The ACA isn't the problem. The problem is the lack of a public option, the failure of Republican state governments to accept the medicaid expansion, and the penalty for not having insurance is too small( however, it can't be increased because of point number 2 resulting in low income households being penalized for being poor ).

If Republican's actually cared about a better healthcare plan, they'd do the following.

1) Legalize marijuana federally.
2) Create a national sales sin tax on Alcohol, Cigarettes, Marijuana, and other tobacco products.
3) Use the revenue to pump money into the exchanges and medicaid expansion.

If they want further revenue:

1) Legalize prostitution.
2) Require strippers to be recognized as employees of the strip clubs. As such, they fall under minimum wage rules.
3) Make prostitution subject to the national sales sin tax which again pumps money into healthcare.

This will all happen with time. It is a natural progression. Unfortunately right now it is too much off progress for baby boomers to ever agree to it.
 
Sep 21, 2007
8,709
0
1,305
And maybe they won't and in the meantime millions lose care

This is hard to argue since I don't know the exact details, but those "millions" are probably not even using their care right now. Anyone in that zone between having a gold/platinum plan and being on Medicare/Medicaid and are just hoping they don't get sick, just the same as not having insurance at all. Anything serious is bankruptcy either way.
 

LaNaranja

Member
May 29, 2013
4,487
0
0
$8 billion? Didn't we just have a thread about the military building a single boat for $13 billion.
 

DUFFMCWALIN

Member
Mar 6, 2010
11,111
0
810
Chico, CA
The ACA isn't the problem. The problem is the lack of a public option, the failure of Republican state governments to accept the medicaid expansion, and the penalty for not having insurance is too small( however, it can't be increased because of point number 2 resulting in low income households being penalized for being poor ).

If Republican's actually cared about a better healthcare plan, they'd do the following.

1) Legalize marijuana federally.
2) Create a national sales sin tax on Alcohol, Cigarettes, Marijuana, and other tobacco products.
3) Use the revenue to pump money into the exchanges and medicaid expansion.

If they want further revenue:

1) Legalize prostitution.
2) Require strippers to be recognized as employees of the strip clubs. As such, they fall under minimum wage rules.
3) Make prostitution subject to the national sales sin tax which again pumps money into healthcare.

This all sounds good and logical.




Which means it won't happen in our lifetimes.
 

Spiritreaver

Member
Jun 7, 2004
10,935
0
1,495
35
Edmond, Oklahoma
This is hard to argue since I don't know the exact details, but those "millions" are probably not even using their care right now. Anyone in that zone between having a gold/platinum plan and being on Medicare/Medicaid and are just hoping they don't get sick, just the same as not having insurance at all. Anything serious is bankruptcy either way.
I am using mine, right now. You wanna pay for my Pradaxa?

Glad to see you'd rather have me die of a blood clot for the greater good of progressive ideals. Thanks for having my back.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
9
595
Burnaby, BC
This is hard to argue since I don't know the exact details, but those "millions" are probably not even using their care right now. Anyone in that zone between having a gold/platinum plan and being on Medicare/Medicaid and are just hoping they don't get sick, just the same as not having insurance at all. Anything serious is bankruptcy either way.


Blowing it up will hurt people end of story
 

Kurdel

Banned
Apr 10, 2010
11,477
0
0
Quebec
The federal government is supposed to help the Obamacare markets succeeded.

Cutting off their air supply to accelerate their death was bound to blow up in their face.
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
May 16, 2014
4,135
0
0
You know what else is going to rile their base more, as we've seen? Losing their healthcare. I think just about everyone knows that the way Obamacare is structured is not ideal, this isn't news, but until Republicans can come up with an alternative that doesn't fuck over millions of people, they are stuck. They can shout out to their base, 'see, see,' but when their alternative is, 'you are going to lose any healthcare you have to begin with,' it doesn't matter. It's the ultimate quagmire.

Agreed. And you know what else with rile up their base?

ANYTHING THE REPUBLICANS LIE TO THE BASE ABOUT.

Which is like breathing to Republicans in office. Constant and inherent to their daily existence.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Jun 6, 2004
20,904
1
0
The ACA isn't the problem. The problem is the lack of a public option, the failure of Republican state governments to accept the medicaid expansion, and the penalty for not having insurance is too small( however, it can't be increased because of point number 2 resulting in low income households being penalized for being poor ).

If Republican's actually cared about a better healthcare plan, they'd do the following.

1) Legalize marijuana federally.
2) Create a national sales sin tax on Alcohol, Cigarettes, Marijuana, and other tobacco products.
3) Use the revenue to pump money into the exchanges and medicaid expansion.

If they want further revenue:

1) Legalize prostitution.
2) Require strippers to be recognized as employees of the strip clubs. As such, they fall under minimum wage rules.
3) Make prostitution subject to the national sales sin tax which again pumps money into healthcare.

I'm for this, especially as a first step. There are other drugs that can be legalized without significant problems. Others that need their schedule changed so they can be used as pharmacology.

But, you need to earmark at least some of the funds from such taxes towards addiction support and mental health.

Lastly, alcohol and cigarette taxes are reaching a point where additional taxes may cause more black market activity than increased revenue.
 
Sep 21, 2007
8,709
0
1,305
I am using mine, right now. You wanna pay for my Pradaxa?

Glad to see you'd rather have me die of a blood clot for the greater good of progressive ideals. Thanks for having my back.

Would you be so kind as to share the details of you insurance plan and the costs of that medication?

Blowing it up will hurt people end of story

And keeping it the same is hurting people.
 

Xe4

Banned
Aug 1, 2014
9,859
1
0
Good. I mean it sucks that the government is basically paying insurance companies, as when the government pays any companies, but this will keep the marketplaces solvent, which is only a good thing.
 
Sep 21, 2007
8,709
0
1,305
Good. I mean it sucks that the government is basically paying insurance companies, as when the government pays any companies, but this will keep the marketplaces solvent, which is only a good thing.

Blowing up just the exchanges would be bad, but I'm all in on blowing up the entire health insurance industry.
 

Nerdkiller

Membeur
Aug 9, 2013
7,329
0
0
Ireland
One of the important reasons they got the insurers on board first w/ the ACA negotiations - it insured that when the Dems no longer had control of any of the processes that the industry would not be trying to tear it down alongside the GOP.
Yup.


Al Giordano said:
The main reason Republicans are quickly choking on their proposed repeal of Obamacare is that it was so well constructed for this moment.

The AMA, doctors & nurses orgs, AARP, hospitals & others oppose Obamacare repeal in large part because they're stakeholders in it. Paradoxically, the inclusion of institutional stakeholders is what caused some who identify as "on the left" to oppose Obamacare in 2009. Nothing short of government-administered "single payer" was acceptable to those Obamacare opponents as it was being legislated.

Interestingly, the state of Vermont - with support of its governor - tried to enact single payer, titled "Medicare for All" but balked after its true costs became evident: an 11.5% increase in state payroll tax plus premiums as high as 9.5% of a person's income. While *I* could and would justify such high initial costs for single payer health care, most consumers & voters would quickly reject 'em. The sad truth is that had "Obamacare" been "single payer" the *easiest* thing for the GOP right now would be to dismantle it.

What makes it so difficult for the GOP to repeal Obamacare now is that, again, it gave stakes to many institutional sectors. Purists oppose sharing power with sectors that already have it because, they say, it perpetuates existing unfairness. However, you know what else perpetuates existing unfairness? Not having a workable plan or a durable coalition to defend change once enacted!

The defense & protection of Obamacare is not an academic or ideological exercise for 20 million of us whose lives it saved. If it is going to continue to keep us alive, that's because it was constructed carefully in a way to resist today's GOP challenge to it! Likewise, Obamacare was constructed with "booby-traps" that, if it were to be repealed, would bring swift electoral death of the GOP. Its "repeal" would lead to an unintended "replace," the replacement of the GOP Congress as soon as 2018. That's how well it's designed.

Remember also that presidents Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, LBJ, Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton & Bush II all called for health care! But only a community organizer, Barack Obama, was able to organize its passage after more than a half century of failed attempts. Today some of the same "purity progressives" who opposed ACA for its lack of public option or single payer are among its loud defenders. In 2012 some called for primarying president Obama because Obamacare, they said, didn't go far enough. Well, now they know better!

The construction of Obamacare and the "coalition of stakeholders" that now defends it was political genius. The GOP is in trouble. The GOP is damned if it repeals, and damned if it fails to repeal Obamacare. That's exactly how the plan was intended back in 2009! So, #ThanksObama for designing health care in a way that anticipated attacks upon it. That's what organizing does! End memo.
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
May 16, 2014
4,135
0
0
What we're doing now isn't working, so why not. Is there a whole lot of difference between no insurance, and paying a ton of money for an insurance you don't use because the deductible is too high? It's already broken, period.

So you're okay with potentially millions dying for an entirely hypothetical hope.

That's monstrous, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being as willing to kill the sick and the poor as much as the Republicans.

Fucking disgusting.
 
Sep 21, 2007
8,709
0
1,305
So you're okay with potentially millions dying for an entirely hypothetical hope.

That's monstrous, and you should be ashamed of yourself for being as willing to kill the sick and the poor as much as the Republicans.

Fucking disgusting.

If the whole health insurance industry crumbled, people wouldn't die, it would have to be replaced with something better. The whole country not having insurance all at once would bring us together like any other national disaster. Health providers would have to bring costs down and government would have to step up with financing and regulations. Lots of CEOs and shareholders would be cut off from their ridiculous profits. Employers would have to take the money they use to subsidize premiums and pay employees more, or hand it over as a tax to help pay for care.
 

uncelestial

Member
Feb 25, 2015
4,582
1
510
San Francisco, CA
Yes, to get to single payer, or a true free market. Either will do, but with the real cost of premiums and deductibles hidden from those not looking, and insurance lobbies pulling strings, we are fucked for the foreseeable future.
Bruh, if you're rooting for a health system collapse on the belief that Trump and the GOP Congress will institute single payer you are fucking dreaming.
 

Kurdel

Banned
Apr 10, 2010
11,477
0
0
Quebec
If the whole health insurance industry crumbled, people wouldn't die, it would have to be replaced with something better. The whole country not having insurance all at once would bring us together like any other national disaster. Health providers would have to bring costs down and government would have to step up with financing and regulations. Lots of CEOs and shareholders would be cut off from their ridiculous profits.

You live in a fantasy world, holy shit there are 0 chances things would be fast, easy or deathless.

I mean, have you seem the last decade of healthcare debates? What on earth would give you this kind if optimism?
 

SkyOdin

Member
Nov 20, 2011
5,241
0
0
If the whole health insurance industry crumbled, people wouldn't die, it would have to be replaced with something better. The whole country not having insurance all at once would bring us together like any other national disaster. Health providers would have to bring costs down and government would have to step up with financing and regulations. Lots of CEOs and shareholders would be cut off from their ridiculous profits.
We don't need to break things and burn everything down in order to have change. If you want to see a change, just work towards that. No need for this purposeless desire to see everything burn first.

The idea that if things suddenly got worse everyone would rally behind your vision of the future is just a fantasy. It's mere wishful thinking peddled by would-be revolutionaries. The cold reality is that the outcome of revolution can neither be predicted nor controlled. Once you burn a system down, there is never a guarantee that it will be replaced by what you want.
 

rjinaz

Member
Feb 7, 2012
17,934
2
700
38
Bruh, if you're rooting for a health system collapse on the belief that Trump and the GOP Congress will institute single payer you are fucking dreaming.

This is in part how we got Trump. The "burn it all down, then things will get better" way of thinking. Not with Republicans in power. They will remain untouched by whatever shit my hit the fan.
 

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
May 16, 2014
4,135
0
0
If the whole health insurance industry crumbled, people wouldn't die, it would have to be replaced with something better. The whole country not having insurance all at once would bring us together like any other national disaster. Health providers would have to bring costs down and government would have to step up with financing and regulations. Lots of CEOs and shareholders would be cut off from their ridiculous profits. Employers would have to take the money they use to subsidize premiums and pay employees more, or hand it over as a tax to help pay for care.

This is remarkably naive.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
9
595
Burnaby, BC
Would you be so kind as to share the details of you insurance plan and the costs of that medication?



And keeping it the same is hurting people.

Hence why it's not perfect but more are harmed by blowing it up than by keeping it.

If the whole health insurance industry crumbled, people wouldn't die, it would have to be replaced with something better. The whole country not having insurance all at once would bring us together like any other national disaster. Health providers would have to bring costs down and government would have to step up with financing and regulations. Lots of CEOs and shareholders would be cut off from their ridiculous profits. Employers would have to take the money they use to subsidize premiums and pay employees more, or hand it over as a tax to help pay for care.


Who is in charge now?

What alternate reality are you posting from.

This is pie in the sky nonsense.

You are actively calling for harm in dreams of a utopia when what you'll get is millions who suffer.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Oct 21, 2014
16,148
1
0
If the whole health insurance industry crumbled, people wouldn't die, it would have to be replaced with something better. The whole country not having insurance all at once would bring us together like any other national disaster. Health providers would have to bring costs down and government would have to step up with financing and regulations. Lots of CEOs and shareholders would be cut off from their ridiculous profits. Employers would have to take the money they use to subsidize premiums and pay employees more, or hand it over as a tax to help pay for care.

Note that you're also talking about causing chaos in 20% of the economy. If things were to blow up as you suggest, not only would people relying on those services get hurt, but you'd be liable to crash the economy.
 
Sep 21, 2007
8,709
0
1,305
Bruh, if you're rooting for a health system collapse on the belief that Trump and the GOP Congress will institute single payer you are fucking dreaming.

I don't expect the GOP congress to do anything. But I'd rather everyone in the same boat, for better or worse.
 

Armaros

Member
Sep 18, 2013
7,766
0
0
I'd prefer to see them implode. Unfortunately this won't fully happen until insurance is decoupled from employers.

So you would rather millions lose insurance then.

In what alternate utopia universe do you come from where a collapse of such a mass industry would be fixed and reborn fast enough before millions that depend on health insurance would suffer?
 

Armaros

Member
Sep 18, 2013
7,766
0
0
I don't expect the GOP congress to do anything. But I'd rather everyone in the same boat, for better or worse.
so because Some people have higher premiums, you want to take away health insurance from a huge chunk of the country..

And you try to pretend you are not exactly like the GOP?
 

Armaros

Member
Sep 18, 2013
7,766
0
0
So you think the GOP will do that? Interesting.

So since the GOP won't improve healthcare, why should we let the current system fail if we don't have a better solution coming with this current congress?

You would spite millions out of health healthcare for your personal ideals?

None of your logic holds up to practical reality.

They brought up what the GOP is or isn't willing to do first. At least in my scenario, they would be forced to do something.

Forced to do what? You think the current GOP could be come up with something to replace the system that got destroyed? Or that they would want to?

Again your logical progression makes zero sense.

GOP won't do UHC -> let Markets fail -> GOP does something?
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
9
595
Burnaby, BC
They brought up what the GOP is or isn't willing to do first. At least in my scenario, they would be forced to do something.

No they wouldn't... not in the way you want

Trump wants to blow it up so they can put in something worse literally that's what he and Congress almost just did. You're literally cheering him along.
 

Turbo Killer

Member
Sep 10, 2016
1,186
53
310
If the whole health insurance industry crumbled, people wouldn't die, it would have to be replaced with something better. The whole country not having insurance all at once would bring us together like any other national disaster. Health providers would have to bring costs down and government would have to step up with financing and regulations. Lots of CEOs and shareholders would be cut off from their ridiculous profits. Employers would have to take the money they use to subsidize premiums and pay employees more, or hand it over as a tax to help pay for care.

Just like when the auto industry collapsed in this country, we all came together and fixed it by bailing them out or the airline industry after 9/11, lol.
 
Sep 21, 2007
8,709
0
1,305
No they wouldn't... not in the way you want

Trump wants to blow it up so they can put in something worse literally that's what he and Congress almost just did. You're literally cheering him along.

He wants to blow up the exchanges, not the idea of heath insurance. Health insurance not being a profit cow may be a good thing.
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
I'm convinced a big reason people soured on S2 of Mr. Robot is that it took the "LETS BLOW EVERYTHING UP" power fantasy and immediately confronted people with the incredibly unpleasant fallout such an event would actually create.
 

Armaros

Member
Sep 18, 2013
7,766
0
0
He wants to blow up the exchanges, not the idea of heath insurance. Health insurance not being a profit cow may be a good thing.

So how will most people on the exchanges get their healthcare then? After all the exchanges fail?

Wait for thIs mythical GOP plan?
 

Conciliator

Banned
Apr 21, 2011
7,301
0
0
37
I'm convinced a big reason people soured on S2 of Mr. Robot is that it took the "LETS BLOW EVERYTHING UP" power fantasy and immediately confronted people with the incredibly unpleasant fallout such an event would actually create.

i haven't watched S2 but the reason I soured on S1 is because it seems like they just
dumped a bucket of hot movie twists on a show I thought was largely about the characters.

/derailed