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Learning Japanese |OT| ..honor and shame are huge parts of it. Let's!

Jintor

Member
ひどいよ

as a big weeb i started trying to read 響け!ユーフォニアム and i thought that was pretty fun.

i should probably get back to laborously working my way through that at some point
 

KtSlime

Member
i dunno any vocab but im gonna get some literature and just pound through it with a dictionary until i know japanese, anyone have any recs?

That sounds like misery. It's a hassle for me to look up the occasional word in a book I don't already know, having to do it for every word while looking at a conjugation table does not sound fun at all and a good way to exhaust your enthusiasm.

But best of luck, are you interested in classical literature or modern light reading? For the prior I recommend botchan, and latter hataraku maou sama.
 
That sounds like misery. It's a hassle for me to look up the occasional word in a book I don't already know, having to do it for every word while looking at a conjugation table does not sound fun at all and a good way to exhaust your enthusiasm.

But best of luck, are you interested in classical literature or modern light reading? For the prior I recommend botchan, and latter hataraku maou sama.

I've been busting through tae kim and practicing conjugation with the extremely simple verbs given. Classical literature might be too antiquated so I'm looking for something more modern. For the record, I have done this before, and it was miserable. Learned spanish from a (modernized) version of Don Quixote.
 

KtSlime

Member
I've been busting through tae kim and practicing conjugation with the extremely simple verbs given. Classical literature might be too antiquated so I'm looking for something more modern. For the record, I have done this before, and it was miserable. Learned spanish from a (modernized) version of Don Quixote.

Sorry I used the wrong word saying classical, I meant classic literature, Botchan is early 20th century. If you like manga, I recommend starting with something targeting young children that way you have a lot of furigana, which would save you time looking up words until you get the hang of kanji.
 

Makai

Member
https://www.bunpro.jp/

I'm trying this for grammar since I like the wanikani format.

Is this an inside joke or something? :p

 

Alanae

Member
i dunno any vocab but im gonna get some literature and just pound through it with a dictionary until i know japanese, anyone have any recs?
going to rec 紫色のクアリア (book ver.) again.
if you buy it on kindle you can use the built in dictionaries on the app to make your life easier.
doing things the physical way is tricky due to the nature of kanji.
 

Alanae

Member
There's a site out there that has a large amount of novels availible in html format, letting you use rikaisama on them.
the book you're starting now is also on it
 
There's a site out there that has a large amount of novels availible in html format, letting you use rikaisama on them.
the book you're starting now is also on it

Could you PM me the site? I probably won't get into it though until I'm done with Genki II (at lesson 16).
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Ok I got it.



Wish me luck

If you're a true beginner as you claim: you're insane. Learning Spanish with Don Quixote is something alrigh (kudos to you)t, but add the completely different structure and the kanji system on top of that and you're looking at a short-lived journey full of pain.
 

Makai

Member
Curiously, おしりたんてい is impossible for me to read any of it because there's almost no kanji.
 

Reversed

Member
One of my anki decks for vocabulary has grown to 150 cards daily, and I neglected a day of review, so it doubled @__@ I don't like this snowball effect (not the neglecting, but the fact that is growing as you keep learning new cards).

Just a hundred days more for this deck to be over...
 

Yohane

Member
Try searching one of your email accounts for your registration confirmation, etc.?

Calling them would probably be the quickest route. Did you forget all of your Japanese since then? They may even speak English just fine...

Unfortunately before 2012 all the JLPT stuff(registration, results, etc) was conducted via regular mail so I don't have anything digital.

And yes I forgot almost anything I've learned. :(

I guess I'll try contacting some old buddies in Japan to help me out.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Unfortunately before 2012 all the JLPT stuff(registration, results, etc) was conducted via regular mail so I don't have anything digital.

And yes I forgot almost anything I've learned. :(

I guess I'll try contacting some old buddies in Japan to help me out.

That's unfortunate. I've only taken the JLPT outside of Japan (in the U.S.) and even back when I took 1-kyuu in 2005, I registered online, received confirmation emails, and was able to view my results on the website in addition to having them physically mailed.

Guess it makes sense that Japanese domestic tests were snail mail only back then.
 

Pixeluh

Member
Is it normal to struggle with Japanese grammar? I never hear how hard it is... I'm having a tough time wrapping my head about relative clauses. I've been reading practice ones online and just can't wrap my head around what is going on in the sentence.

I have the dictionary of basic japanese grammar and have been going through the grammar terms at the beginning of the book. Hopefully that'll clear up some of my confusion? Like one part talks about auxiliary adjectives and now I know what those are... lol
 
Is it normal to struggle with Japanese grammar? I never hear how hard it is... I'm having a tough time wrapping my head about relative clauses. I've been reading practice ones online and just can't wrap my head around what is going on in the sentence.

I have the dictionary of basic japanese grammar and have been going through the grammar terms at the beginning of the book. Hopefully that'll clear up some of my confusion? Like one part talks about auxiliary adjectives and now I know what those are... lol

Absolutely! Grammar is one of my hang-ups as well when it comes to Japanese. Partially because my lexicon of grammatical terms is underdeveloped (in spite of minoring in English language studies), partially because it's very different in terms of usage - right down to what's considered polite or impolite. Example: looking back at sentences that I wrote while taking classes, I severely overused commas, translated from English to Japanese more than just writing in Japanese, and constantly made faux pas like unnecessarily repeating the subject in a misguided effort to sound less curt.

When you struggle with that, I'd recommend trying to find an alternative source's explanation. As an example, Tai Kim's grammar guide works well for me in this respect - I find his examples and explanations to be very useful. It's good that you're looking up grammar terms as well.
 

Kilrogg

paid requisite penance
Is it normal to struggle with Japanese grammar? I never hear how hard it is... I'm having a tough time wrapping my head about relative clauses. I've been reading practice ones online and just can't wrap my head around what is going on in the sentence.

I have the dictionary of basic japanese grammar and have been going through the grammar terms at the beginning of the book. Hopefully that'll clear up some of my confusion? Like one part talks about auxiliary adjectives and now I know what those are... lol

Nah, it's a pain. People mistakenly think it's easy because gender and plural are nowhere to be found, and because the hurdle of kanji is so much more visible, but it works so differently from grammar in Roman/Germanic languages that it can be hard to grasp it. That's before considering politeness registers and what is grammatically correct vs. what actually sounds natural.

With that said, relative clauses should be the least of your concerns. Put them before the main clause, remove the connecting pronoun you would normally use in English, and you're good to go. Obviously the caveat is that you have to mentally reconstruct the grammatical link between the two clauses (i.e. is this a "that", "which", "who", "whom", "when","where"?), but you'll get it eventually. Post again when you're struggling with passive causative, double keigo and the use of ていく / てくる forms in verbs :p.
 

KtSlime

Member
I would like to get some manga in Japanese. I live in the US. What are my options? Do I have to import?

When I was living in the US Rakuten was my to go service to buy Japanese books and manga. Now Amazon.co.jp does international shipping as well. Never ordered from them outside of Japan, but have heard it is easy.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Is it normal to struggle with Japanese grammar? I never hear how hard it is... I'm having a tough time wrapping my head about relative clauses. I've been reading practice ones online and just can't wrap my head around what is going on in the sentence.

I have the dictionary of basic japanese grammar and have been going through the grammar terms at the beginning of the book. Hopefully that'll clear up some of my confusion? Like one part talks about auxiliary adjectives and now I know what those are... lol

Perhaps it would be better to change your approach. It sounds like you're just going one by one through a grammar book and approaching the language as if you were learning math or something.

To tell you the truth, I do not know what relative clauses or auxiliary adjectives are, but that's never stopped me from learning, speaking, reading, and writing Japanese. I'm sure if I read up on those concepts now, I would be able to recognize them, but I'm really not sure how valuable knowing them is, especially if you're just learning the language for the first time. Native speakers really don't think in those terms.
 
Perhaps it would be better to change your approach. It sounds like you're just going one by one through a grammar book and approaching the language as if you were learning math or something.

To tell you the truth, I do not know what relative clauses or auxiliary adjectives are, but that's never stopped me from learning, speaking, reading, and writing Japanese. I'm sure if I read up on those concepts now, I would be able to recognize them, but I'm really not sure how valuable knowing them is, especially if you're just learning the language for the first time. Native speakers really don't think in those terms.

I think it's far more likely that he knows what a relative clause is in English and is just saying that the corresponding concept in Japanese, of phrasing things that would be expressed in relative clauses in English, is throwing him for a loop (on the assumption that other English speakers here would know what he was talking about). I've never seen any textbooks, even grammar specific ones, actually teach the names of the grammatical structures they're using, let alone giving an English name for a Japanese grammar construct.
 

KtSlime

Member
There isn't much of a reason to learn English grammatical terms to apply them to Japanese, especially when the reasons the English terms exist is to explain complex grammatical structures that do not exist in Japanese. As to the relative clause, like anytime you want to describe something, put say the description right before you say the thing. Japanese calls it the 修飾関係 (related decorating sentence?), but is not important, since the concept is easy and just takes practice, and we do it in english but only limited to certain classes of words. "The 'blue' book", is not much different than "The 'last week borrowed from the library' book", and just requires a bit of adjustment to rules we already have. As to whatever auxiliary adjectives are, I looked up a list of them and they don't follow any sort of pattern and are not adjectives, so learn the words and their individual uses, not this made up class.
 

Porcile

Member
I like Kanzen Master for grammar. Short and pithy explanations. As an expert once said, treat grammar more like vocabulary. See how it's used to in context to really understand it.
 

Raw64life

Member
Wanikani does $100 off a lifetime sub every holiday. I took advantage of it last year and I know they also did it the year before. So just wait a couple months.
 
Is it normal to already struggle by level 2 of Wanikani? I thought I was doing well but as soon as it introduced things such as 下がる, 下さい, 上げる, and 上る I basically hit a brick wall.
 
Is it normal to already struggle by level 2 of Wanikani? I thought I was doing well but as soon as it introduced things such as 下がる, 下さい, 上げる, and 上る I basically hit a brick wall.
If it's your first time studying Japanese, I'd imagine it will take a while to get used to how it "works" even at a simple level.
 
If it's your first time studying Japanese, I'd imagine it will take a while to get used to how it "works" even at a simple level.

I started just under a month ago by learning Hiragana and then Katakana. Once I was confident I had those down everything suggested diving into Kanji next. First level was a breeze but once WaniKani start introducing 'below' and 'above' words it's like they completely abandoned having helpful mnemonics.
 

Makai

Member
I started just under a month ago by learning Hiragana and then Katakana. Once I was confident I had those down everything suggested diving into Kanji next. First level was a breeze but once WaniKani start introducing 'below' and 'above' words it's like they completely abandoned having helpful mnemonics.
You'll remember it eventually. The whole design of the system is if you suck at words they'll give it to you until you get it.
 

Resilient

Member
NoblesseOblige, are you being serious? If you don't know them, the whole point is to study them until you know them. If you're having trouble now, what do you think is gonna happen when you start seeing stuff like this 沸く・湧く ー 聞く・聴く ? Those aren't even good examples cause they mean (practically) and read the same. Of course it's normal to struggle, why you asking that. Get off GAF and hit the books.
 
I started just under a month ago by learning Hiragana and then Katakana. Once I was confident I had those down everything suggested diving into Kanji next. First level was a breeze but once WaniKani start introducing 'below' and 'above' words it's like they completely abandoned having helpful mnemonics.
Well, with such a simple kanji and a couple of hiragana there's not much one can do as far as mnemonics go. You see up/above, the hiragana remind you of a verb (not now probably, but in a bit it will be pretty obvious), and so you think of "raise" or something similar.
Mnemonics will be really useful for complex kanji and words you'll see later down the line.
 
Well, with such a simple kanji and a couple of hiragana there's not much one can do as far as mnemonics go. You see up/above, the hiragana remind you of a verb (not now probably, but in a bit it will be pretty obvious), and so you think of "raise" or something similar.
Mnemonics will be really useful for complex kanji and words you'll see later down the line.

I know each of them individually but the problem is mostly when recalling the difference between 上げる and 上がる for example. I know that it's verb involving 'raising/rising' just never sure which.
 
Is it normal to already struggle by level 2 of Wanikani? I thought I was doing well but as soon as it introduced things such as 下がる, 下さい, 上げる, and 上る I basically hit a brick wall.

You just need to get used to handling multiple readings. It will come with time if you stick with it.
 
I know each of them individually but the problem is mostly when recalling the difference between 上げる and 上がる for example. I know that it's verb involving 'raising/rising' just never sure which.
For those two for example you can try to remember that with the あ-sound it's more of a passive meaning (not literally passive, mind you), so you have "to get lower" and "to rise" (where you are not applying the action to something beside yourself). With the え-sound it's instead more active; "you raise" or "you lower" something.
By the way, you shouldn't worry too much; you'll start seeing them more often (on WK and in other places later) and you'll get used to it. As you have realised though, knowing the kanji which appear in a word is generally not enough to know the exact meaning (but usually you can at least make a guess); there are cases where the same two kanji together mean one thing or another based on their order (this link has some examples)
 

Resilient

Member
I know each of them individually but the problem is mostly when recalling the difference between 上げる and 上がる for example. I know that it's verb involving 'raising/rising' just never sure which.

For those two for example you can try to remember that with the あ-sound it's more of a passive meaning (not literally passive, mind you), so you have "to get lower" and "to rise" (where you are not applying the action to something beside yourself). With the え-sound it's instead more active; "you raise" or "you lower" something.
By the way, you shouldn't worry too much; you'll start seeing them more often (on WK and in other places later) and you'll get used to it. As you have realised though, knowing the kanji which appear in a word is generally not enough to know the exact meaning (but usually you can at least make a guess); there are cases where the same two kanji together mean one thing or another based on their order (this link has some examples)

see: transitive and intransitive verbs
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/learn/grammar/in-transitive

what you're seeing at wanikani probably doesn't make sense because you're trying to learn kanji using that anki stuff without actually learning the basic ground roots of japanese; verbs, grammar, types of adjectives, particles etc. are you doing this type of study at the same time, or just wanikani? all the kids usually use the genkis books.
 

Resilient

Member
This is a double but important. You should be hitting the books and learning why some verbs have the same reading/kanji, yet differ with their hiragana stem - spefically the difference between the え and あ versions. I'm not going into detail cause I'm not as helpful as some others in this thread (who do good work shout outs Alanae!) is but the link above should definitely get you started.

It's better to learn that than to learn and struggle through wanikani, just because you wanna learn them sweet sweet kanji.
 

Makai

Member
I can't believe animal crossing characters literally speak Japanese out loud and not random boops. I wonder if this is the case for Okami/Zelda etc too.
 
Hey guys, so I'm currently on Lesson 16 at Genki 2 (but my classes are at 13), and I was wondering: would it be worth doing WaniKani?

I would definitely like to get into reading more, and I feel like my lack of kanji (and vocab) are the biggest issues right now.
 
Hey guys, so I'm currently on Lesson 16 at Genki 2 (but my classes are at 13), and I was wondering: would it be worth doing WaniKani?

I would definitely like to get into reading more, and I feel like my lack of kanji (and vocab) are the biggest issues right now.
If your main interest is kanji and vocab I'd say it could be worth it, if you like the way the site works.
 

Makai

Member
Kids stuff replacing kanji with kana is a bother. Much easier to recognize kanji than sound out and match against homophones.
 
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