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Lessons from Africa (or how to prevent progress)

JordanN

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Why is the onus on the rest of us?
Because you're the one who disagrees with my record despite [me] being the first to provide evidence.
Occam's razor instantly disqualifies any user who haven't even participated for less than a year from claiming it.
 
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Turnt

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Because you're the one who disagrees with my record despite being the first to provide evidence.
Both of the links you provided have been edited. So they can't be used as evidence of consistency. Perhaps it was just a typo, that's probably the case. But just maybe you initially admitted that you would in fact try and singlehandidly change Japanese culture because you didn't like it only to quickly edit it after your inconsistent whims changed. Your apparent tendency for bombastic claims means it cannot be ruled out. This is a problem of your own making. If you could talk in a more reasoned, grounded manner then you might be granted the benefit of the doubt.
 

JordanN

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Both of the links you provided have been edited. So they can't be used as evidence of consistency. Perhaps it was just a typo, that's probably the case. But just maybe you initially admitted that you would in fact try and singlehandidly change Japanese culture because you didn't like it only to quickly edit it after your inconsistent whims changed. Your apparent tendency for bombastic claims means it cannot be ruled out. This is a problem of your own making. If you could talk in a more reasoned, grounded manner then you might be granted the benefit of the doubt.
You're getting desperate dude.


Now you're making a new claim that I wanted to change Japanese customs? Based on what?
 
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Turnt

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You're getting desperate dude.
I'm simply talking about the evidence you have presented. and sticking to logic On one hand we have your posts and on the other we have 137,635 other members of this website. Occam's razor says one of those 137,635 is more likely to be the most consistent poster on neogaf.
 

JordanN

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I'm simply talking about the evidence you have presented. and sticking to logic On one hand we have your posts and on the other we have 137,635 other members of this website. Occam's razor says one of those 137,635 is more likely to be the most consistent poster on neogaf.
And your evidence for this come from where again?

By the way, here's another post about Japan that's even older but proves my consistency goes a while back.

 

Turnt

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And your evidence for this come from where again?

By the way, here's another post about Japan that's even older but proves my consistency goes a while back.

Given the two options you think it's more likely that you are more consistent than every single person in a group of 137,635 other people? Every single one of them? All based on a couple posts about how you think you might feel if you were in a situation you haven't ever been in?

You're probably around average for consistency. So, if we round up you're more likely to be neogaf's 68,817th most consistent poster. No shame in that. For argument's sake we could say half the userbase left to go to Resetera and that site is such a trashfire that they could be discounted. But you regularly visit Resetera yourself.
 

JordanN

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Given the two options you think it's more likely that you are more consistent than every single person in a group of 137,635 other people?
I have evidence for my claim. If someone else comes forward and beats my record of 12 months, then I'll relinquish it.
 

Shaqazooloo

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As entertaining as this back and forth is (mainly laughing at the ridiculousness) Can JordanN JordanN and T Turnt not derail the thread? The discussion on JordanN consistency won't go anywhere anyway since he has no one else that will back up that claim and he won't let it go, might as well just let him have that.
 
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merlinevo

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The premise of this video is asinine. The problem with african countries has nothing to due with how excessive or restrictive their business laws are. I would argue the opposite, they don't have enough laws and the population does not believe in the rule of law. All the excuses about colonialism, racism, and oppression are also a bunch of hooey. Africa has many problems like high birth rate, low education, high crimerates, corrupt government, infighting but to continue the trite and misleading racism refrain, while asking for handouts from racist whites, will not lead them to a better place.

Africa is resource rich, the continent is majority black, and global technological saturation and communication reach is available to it. If the continent cannot pull itself up with the abundance of means available, then that speaks more to the people than any excuses the failed leaders constantly use. The tired excuses of colonialism is wearing thin because countries like Asia was colonized, America was colonized, Australia was colonized but these continents have managed to pull themselves up and greatly prosper as a result of colonialism.
 
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Turnt

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Because you're the one who disagrees with my record despite [me] being the first to provide evidence.
Occam's razor instantly disqualifies any user who haven't even participated for less than a year from claiming it.
The guy who said he thought they would make an MK vs DC game, got mocked for it and then bumped the thread three years later when vindicated He is your master now. He not only has the time advantage but his is also an actual thing rather than you imagining how cool you would be if you lived somewhere you don't.

As entertaining as this back and forth is (mainly laughing at the ridiculousness) Can JordanN JordanN and T Turnt not derail the thread? The discussion on JordanN consistency won't go anywhere anyway since he has no one else that will back up that claim and he won't let it go, might as well just let him have that.
Apologies, man. I was just poking fun at someone taking themselves a little too seriously. I didn't mean to completely knock the conversation off course but things just kept going. I'll leave it be now.
 
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JordanN

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The guy who said he thought they would make an MK vs DC game, got mocked for it and then bumped the thread three years later when vindicated He is your master now.
Not quite. He made one claim and followed it up 3 years later.
I've consistently made the same claim within a 12 month period.

Edit: I'll only give credit for making the oldest prediction come true, but that title actually goes to Justin Bailey for this thread.

 
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Lanrutcon

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So group up with other people who share similar ideals?
Is that not how civil war works? If a country falls part, it's not because everyone agreed to have one dictator rule over them for life. Even in Nazi Germany, there was still an active resistance for removing Hitler, even among his highest ranking generals.
I'll refer you back to one of my initial posts: 93% of the country is black. If every white South African took up arms the civil war would be over in a week, and not in the way you're saying it would.

If they're taking everything I ever made, why wouldn't I just fight back at this point? You wouldn't let a stranger rob you and get away with it. You would still resist until you recover back your belongings.
"But they have a gun/they can overpower you!"

Ok, then come back when you do have the appropriate means to counter them.
I'll refer you back to one my initial posts: 93% of the country is black. If the government wants to take my shit there is nothing I can do about it. Nothing. Stop making up crap about fighting back when literally every number in the scenario says that's pointless. This is not Hollywood, and you are not an idiot. You think the Zimbabwean white farmers had a chance when the government came for them?

Give me one practical way to oppose the government and 93% of the populace in South Africa that doesn't just get me branded a racist and laughed out of society and my career (best case scenario).

Well when the cultures are similar, then it's obviously not as difficult to transition. But try going from South African culture to Japan. It's a completely different way of life with its own history, even if your life is more safe, you are still always going to be "that one South African guy surrounded by 99% Japanese".
Who the hell moves to Japan when easy fits like Australia are available? Fair enough.

I want people to make educated decisions on why are they giving up their ancestral homelands and way of life, to join a foreign one.

Especially since my logic applies to the world at large. If all 1 billion Africans left their continent and moved to the Western countries, what do you think is going to happen? It's going to be chaos at every level, government services will be strained having to provide welfare to people with very low incomes, there will be increased competition for jobs and housing, and more important, the culture of the West will be at odds with the new culture being imported and demographically outpacing the natives.

It's just not sustainable. It's better we fight to make African countries more sustainable then going with the short term solution of just bringing everyone here.
Yeah, if there's a mass immigration it may be harmful to the target country, or it may not. But in both cases it's beneficial to the immigrant. So, tough shit for you guys, really? In this particular case I wouldn't be too worried: the people fleeing the country are a) white b) educated c) have money. As I understand it, Canada wants our doctors anyway. That's a win/win scenario, really.

Who's fighting to make African countries sustainable, btw? The only country I can see doing anything is China. They're buying up everything in they can.
 
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JordanN

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I'll refer you back to one of my initial posts: 93% of the country is black. If every white South African took up arms the civil war would be over in a week, and not in the way you're saying it would.
I'll be honest, it wasn't my intention to turn this into a discussion about civil wars. I mainly wanted to focus on immigration (even though the two subjects overlap).

If the wealthiest South Africans leave the country, then what I forsee is the country will most likely collapse. When the collapse happens, the same people who made the situation worse are bound to disperse or move to the next country.

The outcome is going to be the same, the difference is whether you want to accelerate it or not. Wealthy South Africans immigrating is that acceleration I'm talking about.
 

Shaqazooloo

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I'll refer you back to one of my initial posts: 93% of the country is black. If every white South African took up arms the civil war would be over in a week, and not in the way you're saying it would.



I'll refer you back to one my initial posts: 93% of the country is black. If the government wants to take my shit there is nothing I can do about it. Nothing. Stop making up crap about fighting back when literally every number in the scenario says that's pointless. This is not Hollywood, and you are not an idiot. You think the Zimbabwean white farmers had a chance when the government came for them?

Give me one practical way to oppose the government and 93% of the populace in South Africa that doesn't just get me branded a racist and laughed out of society and my career (best case scenario).



Who the hell moves to Japan when easy fits like Australia are available? Fair enough.



Yeah, if there's a mass immigration it may be harmful to the target country, or it may not. But in both cases it's beneficial to the immigrant. So, tough shit for you guys, really? In this particular case I wouldn't be too worried: the people fleeing the country are a) white b) educated c) have money. As I understand it, Canada wants our doctors anyway. That's a win/win scenario, really.

Who's fighting to make African countries sustainable, btw? The only country I can see doing anything is China. They're buying up everything in they can.
Do you see the divide between white and black south Africans as to great to overcome?

I would like to think eventually white and black people could come together for their mutual benifit and improve their countries but perhaps I'm to optimistic and naive? I don't live in these countries so I don't know how bad you guys have it.
 
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Bitmap Frogs

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Here's a 6 minute long video about the problems many african countries are facing and why they fail to improve. It explains how donations can be bad and on a larger scale it shows how socialism and government regulations kill progress and keep people poor or send them on a death trip trying to find a better life elsewhere.

I highly encourage you to watch this short video, not only it is highly interesting, but because it is not only applicable to Africa, but to many western countries nowadays. It is also a great example for why sayings like "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." are very true.

Socialism and government regulations have nothing to do with it, but whatever validates your preconceived ideas.
 

Lanrutcon

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Do you see the divide between white and black south Africans as to great to overcome?

I would like to think eventually white and black people could come together for their mutual benifit and improve their countries but perhaps I'm to optimistic and naive? I don't live in these countries so I don't know how bad you guys have it.
Currently a corrupt ruling party is using the ignorant masses to stay in power and bleed the country dry. Criticism is deflected by blaming Apartheid. What we have in South Africa is black folks taking advantage of black folks, while blaming white folks.

I don't know when things will change for the better. Definitely not in my lifetime.
 

JordanN

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I don't know when things will change for the better. Definitely not in my lifetime.
As awful as it might sound, it's possible South Africa could turn around if they ever get a dictatorship similar to Libya's Gaddafi.
The leader is corrupt, but at least they reinvest in society and keep it running.

Unfortunately, as i mentioned in another thread, Sub-Saharan African dictators tend to be the worst at any nation building.

The only exception that comes to mind is Thomas Sankara, but he was sadly assassinated so yeah, the continent is fucked.
 
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hariseldon

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Currently a corrupt ruling party is using the ignorant masses to stay in power and bleed the country dry. Criticism is deflected by blaming Apartheid. What we have in South Africa is black folks taking advantage of black folks, while blaming white folks.

I don't know when things will change for the better. Definitely not in my lifetime.
Much of this mirrors what I hear from my South African friends. Unfortunately the black population will keep on voting them in - the only possible solution is to improve education among the black South African population but that's simply not going to happen while the present regime remains in control.

The difficulty is that while JordanN JordanN may be that perfect person who would stay and fix everything, for everyone else, if you've got a family you get them out so they don't get killed, and ideally you go to a country that has reasonably close values to your own (note that in this case the values of the departing are not the values that fucked the country - those values come from the black population while the white population retains the values of the former white rulers who had a far better handle on nation building). I don't believe that those South Africans would import their problems to the UK or Australia or wherever, because they are not the source of the bad policies.

I wonder if Africa is salvageable - I think there is an argument that there is a tipping point beyond which a country cannot be fixed. It may be that too large a percentage of the population is poorly educated and breaks democracy (while no population will ever fully understand all the issues, the closer you get to that point the better it functions). It may be that the population has a belief system which embeds religion in its politics. It may be that the people are used to authoritarianism and dictatorship after several generations. Any of those things can take a nation to the point of no return. It's easy to tear apart a working state (see Zimbabwe and South Africa for shining examples) but really fucking hard to build one.
 
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iamblades

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Socialism and government regulations have nothing to do with it, but whatever validates your preconceived ideas.
Except it is, and we have clear examples to base this off of:


Government policies have real and tangible impacts that are predictable, and different sets of policies have clearly different historical track records.

Botswana has gone from the third poorest country to a firmly middle income country in just a bit over a half century because they made many of the right policy decisions, and they have clearly surpassed their neighbors who were substantially wealthier when Botswana gained independence, because places like Zimbabwe and to a slightly lesser degree South Africa, have destroyed their economies with terrible economic policies.

Botswana is not even an extreme example of some free market ideal, they still are not in the top 25% of economic freedom(Singapore and Hong Kong show the far edge of what is possible with the right economic policy, though admittedly those places also benefit from advantageous geography which isn't the case in a place like Botswana), but a small amount of economic freedom can go a long way, and the Example of Botswana proves that the same things that have worked everywhere else on the planet are capable of working.

IMO if it weren't for the AIDS epidemic stealing a generation from Botswana, they'd be almost a first world economy by now. Even with that major issue, they have managed to sustain higher GDP growth than China over the past 60 years.

Another example is Rwanda, which has embraced economic freedom after the terrible genocide and is also seeing rapid economic growth. Many places in Africa also have less economic freedom but are still growing rapidly, like Ghana, but basically everywhere in Africa, countries are liberalizing their economies to some degree or other, and growing faster because of it. Ethiopia just did a bunch of privatization and is now the world's fastest growing economy, it is still highly unfree, especially WRT to land ownership, but the small improvements in economic policy can lead to massive changes in economic growth, at least in the early stages.

Bottom line is we more or less know what works and especially what doesn't. If you want to remain dirt poor forever(or turn a previous wealthy country poor, like Venezuela), the best way to do so is to have a score on the economic freedom index of less than 50. There are no rich countries that don't have some level of economic freedom and there never have been. You can argue diminishing returns to wealth or that there are different goals for a society depending on your value system, but to act like we don't have a reasonable idea of why certain places are poor and other rich is completely ignorant.
 
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JordanN

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The difficulty is that while JordanN JordanN may be that perfect person who would stay and fix everything, for everyone else, if you've got a family you get them out so they don't get killed, and ideally you go to a country that has reasonably close values to your own (note that in this case the values of the departing are not the values that fucked the country - those values come from the black population while the white population retains the values of the former white rulers who had a far better handle on nation building). I don't believe that those South Africans would import their problems to the UK or Australia or wherever, because they are not the source of the bad policies.

I wonder if Africa is salvageable - I think there is an argument that there is a tipping point beyond which a country cannot be fixed. It may be that too large a percentage of the population is poorly educated and breaks democracy (while no population will ever fully understand all the issues, the closer you get to that point the better it functions). It may be that the population has a belief system which embeds religion in its politics. It may be that the people are used to authoritarianism and dictatorship after several generations. Any of those things can take a nation to the point of no return. It's easy to tear apart a working state (see Zimbabwe and South Africa for shining examples) but really fucking hard to build one.
Don't get me wrong, I definitely understand the extreme hardships that living in South Africa would push someone over to the edge and move to the West. From my point of view, I see "fleeing" should be done at steps.

If your city goes to shit, then move to a next one. If that city goes bad, then move to another state/province. If your state/province goes bad, then move to a [neighboring] country.

This is actually a real example of what happened to the White Farmers who were forced out of Zimbabwe. While it was certainly within their right to just return back to England and live a perfect life, they actually still continued to live in Africa, they just moved to one of the neighboring countries next door (Zambia). And whoa and behold, they were still able to look after themselves. No begging the international community for help, even after a tyrannical government kicked them out. They just went next door and built themselves up like nothing happened.


And of course, the irony is that once these Farmers left, Zimbabwe would beg them to come back anyway (which I believe some or a lot of them did).

Regarding whether Africa is salvageable, there have definitely been times where it could have been possible, but because there are certain "truths" that make people scream racist, all attempts at getting there have failed completely.

Don't believe me? Watch this interview of former Rhodesia/Zimbabwe Prime Minister Ian Smith starting @ 15:50


Basically, he wasn't against Blacks ruling (and in fact, the Rhodesian government did actually have and allow Black people to vote), he just wanted a system to remain in place that would allow the most educated and successful Black Rhodesians to slowly take over instead of just letting anyone run the nation into the ground. Woah and behold, Rhodesia falls, Mugabe takes over, and the country immediately falls apart.
 
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Cosmogony

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Perhaps your right that socialism is killing people abilities to thrive, but unsustaniable growth is killing our only habitable earth so really not that easy to just say its socialism being All bad.
How mistaken you are.

If anything, it's capitalism and its ability to generate innovation that will save us from that 12-year down the line, impending ecological doom. It's the most dynamic economies in the world, capitalist economies, that lead the transition from fossil fuels to clean energies via large-scale decarbonization that can only be attained though intensive and extensive technological progress.

Look no further than the state former socialist regimes left their respective countries' environments in to learn all about the power socialism lacks to reconcile prosperity with environmental concerns.
 

Durask

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If the likes of Brazil or South Africa are anything to go by, what's going to happen is people will just move to the most prosperous parts of their country and "wall" themselves off from other groups.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Though it does mean if you are born on the wrong side of the fence, you could be eternally fucked.

It's bad because even if you live on the rich side of the fence, you sooner or later become aware that there are thousands behind the fence who hate your guts and would slowly cut you to pieces if they ever manage to get their hands on you.

Living under siege 24/7 is stressful even if you've got a luxury bunker with a swimming pool.
 
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lock2k

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It's bad because even if you live on the rich side of the fence, you sooner or later become aware that there are thousands behind the fence who hate your guts and would slowly cut you to pieces if they ever manage to get their hands on you.

Living under siege 24/7 is stressful even if you've got a luxury bunker with a swimming pool.
This is the Morumbi neighborhood in São Paulo.

It's a fucking shithole.

It used to be one of the richest neighborhoods but the slums cornered it and people started to leave in droves because it's one of ht most violent neighborhoods. My brother used to live there for a while and I feared for his life everyday. He got mugged a lot while he was there.

Just for the reference. I live in Santo André, a city near São Paulo, and I was never mugged or robbed in my life. Well, I was, but in Argentina and in Mexico, never in Brazil (don't hold grudges against any of these countries, I love them). But what I'm saying here is that, even if it's not a safe country overall, some neighborhood are way more unequal and fucked up than others. The place where I currently live is a paradise compared to that picture.
 
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Lanrutcon

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This is the Morumbi neighborhood in São Paulo.

It's a fucking shithole.

It used to be one of the richest neighborhoods but the slums cornered it and people started to leave in droves because it's one of ht most violent neighborhoods. My brother used to live there for a while and I feared for his life everyday. He got mugged a lot while he was there.

Just for the reference. I live in Santo André, a city near São Paulo, and I was never mugged or robbed in my life. Well, I was, but in Argentina and in Mexico, never in Brazil (don't hold grudges against any of these countries, I love them). But what I'm saying here is that, even if it's not a safe country overall, some neighborhood are way more unequal and fucked up than others. The place where I currently live is a paradise compared to that picture.
That's still something that freaks me out a little: the idea that there are adults that have never been robbed. Like, ever. Blows my mind.
 

hariseldon

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That's still something that freaks me out a little: the idea that there are adults that have never been robbed. Like, ever. Blows my mind.
I've never been robbed. I've had attempts, but never successful (I'm fast on my feet). This despite living in some rough as fuck bits of the UK at various points in my life (back when I was poor - I do NOT miss those days).
 
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Lanrutcon

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I've never been robbed. I've had attempts, but never successful (I'm fast on my feet). This despite living in some rough as fuck bits of the UK at various points in my life (back when I was poor - I do NOT miss those days).
Man, I've had multiple cars and flats broken into. I've interrupted housebreakers twice in two separate homes. I've had a knife pulled on me while in my car. A couple of attempts at ATMs, and at least one failed pickpocket attempt (that I know of).
 

hariseldon

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Man, I've had multiple cars and flats broken into. I've interrupted housebreakers twice in two separate homes. I've had a knife pulled on me while in my car. A couple of attempts at ATMs, and at least one failed pickpocket attempt (that I know of).
Remind me to never live where you live. Seriously though a vast majority of the world is utterly uncivilised, unsafe and unpleasant. Those of us living in relatively safe places should count our blessings.
 
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How mistaken you are.

If anything, it's capitalism and its ability to generate innovation that will save us from that 12-year down the line, impending ecological doom. It's the most dynamic economies in the world, capitalist economies, that lead the transition from fossil fuels to clean energies via large-scale decarbonization that can only be attained though intensive and extensive technological progress.

Look no further than the state former socialist regimes left their respective countries' environments in to learn all about the power socialism lacks to reconcile prosperity with environmental concerns.

You obviously dont understand how self destructive capitalists are to the entire world. Let's just say i disagree With you and be done. Many things i am but wrong has never been My trait in life. Take care.
 
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lock2k

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That's still something that freaks me out a little: the idea that there are adults that have never been robbed. Like, ever. Blows my mind.
I was robbed, but not in my home country.

But I know more people that have never been robbed. And plenty of people who did.
 

Cucked SoyBoy

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"stay in their country and fix it" is like such a weird argument to make from people whose predecessors and even founding fathers left their own country instead of staying and fixing it

Just because America was founded by immigrants in the 18th century, doesn't mean we have to let in the entire world in the 21st century.

Fuck off, we're full.
 

JordanN

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"stay in their country and fix it" is like such a weird argument to make from people whose predecessors and even founding fathers left their own country instead of staying and fixing it
But they did fix it?

Assuming you're referring to European history and the people who did set out to found new colonies, you're aware that literally every European settlement had became self sufficient and it was outsiders who demand access to them?

Last I checked, it's not Americans running past the Mexican border and demanding Mexicans give them a better life.

Or look at how Britain pulled out of Hong Kong but it's not British people demanding to go back there, it's Hong Kongers who rather live under British rule than China.
 
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ViceUniverse

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But they did fix it?

Assuming you're referring to European history and the people who did set out to found new colonies, you're aware that literally every European settlement had became self sufficient and it was outsiders who demand access to them?

Last I checked, it's not Americans running past the Mexican border and demanding Mexicans give them a better life.

Or look at how Britain pulled out of Hong Kong but it's not British people demanding to go back there, Hong Kongers rather live under British rule than China.
We just run past the border demanding selling cheaper healthcare. And retire in other countries to have cheaper living in a better climate.
 

JordanN

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We just run past the border demanding selling cheaper healthcare.
What?
Well if that's the case, then surely Trump building the wall is an even better thing! Can't have all those Americans running to Mexico for their superior healthcare. It's obvious that if a wall goes up, it's America that would suffer and Mexico that will become a superpower over night!

ViceUniverse said:
And retire in other countries to have cheaper living in a better climate.
So nobody lives in America/Europe past 60? Where do they go? Zimbabwe?
 
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OSC

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Telling people to stay in scenarios where they're fucked when they can leave for another country where things are 100% better is bloody stupid. And what the hell are "alien lands"? It takes a South African all of 3 minutes to adapt to a country like Australia. I know people who immigrated and the toughest thing they had to adapt to was the change chocolate brand names. You want to go live in Dubai, sure. It's a different way of life. But the UK? Canada? New Zealand? No problem. Just tell me which side of the road to drive on and we're golden.

The difficulty is that while JordanN JordanN JordanN JordanN may be that perfect person who would stay and fix everything, for everyone else, if you've got a family you get them out so they don't get killed, and ideally you go to a country that has reasonably close values to your own (note that in this case the values of the departing are not the values that fucked the country - those values come from the black population while the white population retains the values of the former white rulers who had a far better handle on nation building). I don't believe that those South Africans would import their problems to the UK or Australia or wherever, because they are not the source of the bad policies.
I think at an individual level moving out works fine, the problem is when it is done at a large scale with millions of individuals participating. Particularly uneducated individuals who don't even know the language of the country they're migrating to.

If you know the language of the country you're migrating to, and perhaps have some high level of education that is useful, you can contribute to the new country. In a sense those better off in the original country are better off and better for the country they migrate too. But if you don't know the language and have no valid education you're more likely to be a burden.

Those millions of migrants that have migrated to europe without knowing the language and with little to no education, taking millions or billions in welfare, the more they tax the welfare system the likelier the welfare system will collapse and chaos will break loose.
"stay in their country and fix it" is like such a weird argument to make from people whose predecessors and even founding fathers left their own country instead of staying and fixing it
Fix what? The U.K. was a superpower, it wasn't a third world wasteland. There were some that came for religious freedom, but not all, and religious freedom is quite a minor issue. edit: most of europe was in pretty good condition at the time.
 
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Afro Republican

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If I was African, I would be furious why millions of my own people would rather abandon an entire continent then actually try and stay behind and fix it. By going to a foreign land, you will be seen as an outsider.
This is false, and isn't a real thing, Asian and Eastern Europe far outpace Africa and people leaving countries. In 2018 there had been 3.4 million Romanians who left Romania up to that point.

The only African countries with high "leave" rates are East Congo/Kinshasa (which has been nothing more than a corporation controlled territory using wars as an excuse to enter the country") and Muslim nations like Sudan, Somalia, and Muslim Ethiopia among others like the North African Arab/Persian countries, and North/central Nigeria.

The migration rate is lowering by year in many countries such as Kenya, same with Ghana and they never had high migrants in the first place.

How many people do you see leaving Madagascar, Gabon, Angola, Benin, Mali, Chad, West Congo/Brazzaville, Eritrea, Ivory Coast, Seychelles, etc., for Western Europe and the Americans?

'But man the amount coming from Eastern Europe and Asian on the other hand is crazy. But the narrative is there's a bunch of Africans leaving africa? No that's not actually happening. Most of the migrants currently when you look at local and independent reports are like 80+% muslim countries from North African to Somalian, and Nigeria, along with War torn South Sudan, Sudan itself, and the war torn East congo.

What's funny is Central Africa Republican, the East congos second brother in terms of being in constant conflict, barely has migrants leaving for America/Europe when you track it by year, most of the "migration" is to the surrounding African countries and a good chunk of them are only temporary since they jump back into the country later or the countries they leave to kick them out or re-reroute them.

Anyway point is your point here is extremely false unless you'd like to also add these two statements to your post:

"If I was Asian, I would be furious why millions of my own people would rather abandon an entire continent then actually try and stay behind and fix it. By going to a foreign land, you will be seen as an outsider."

"If I was Eastern European, I would be furious why millions of my own people would rather abandon half a continent then actually try and stay behind and fix it. By going to a foreign land, you will be seen as an outsider."

How many people are fleeing Africa these days? Thousands? Millions?
Why can't none of them organize and take back even just ONE country?
How many people are fleeing Asia these days? Thousands Millions?
How many people are fleeing Eastern Europe these days? Thousands? Millions?

Why can't none of them organize and take back even one country?

Why are they fleeing to America, Europe, and Canada?

Now that I think about it didn't you used to complain about Asians in Canada?

Hmmm.....
 

Afro Republican

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The premise of this video is asinine. The problem with african countries has nothing to due with how excessive or restrictive their business laws are. I would argue the opposite, they don't have enough laws and the population does not believe in the rule of law. All the excuses about colonialism, racism, and oppression are also a bunch of hooey. Africa has many problems like high birth rate, low education, high crimerates, corrupt government, infighting but to continue the trite and misleading racism refrain, while asking for handouts from racist whites, will not lead them to a better place.

Africa is resource rich, the continent is majority black, and global technological saturation and communication reach is available to it. If the continent cannot pull itself up with the abundance of means available, then that speaks more to the people than any excuses the failed leaders constantly use. The tired excuses of colonialism is wearing thin because countries like Asia was colonized, America was colonized, Australia was colonized but these continents have managed to pull themselves up and greatly prosper as a result of colonialism.
Lol this stupid talking point where we pretend that Africa isn't having UN and other world org troops coming in killing people and disposing governments that don't obey their agenda.

But when It's Europe, South America, or the Middle East it's "wests" fault because "they caused" the issue but when it's Africa it's the africans fault.

How many Asian countries were colonized? Not many.

How many Asian countries are still paying colonial taxes to the french in 2019? None.

How many Asian countries will cut off trade and send troops to block borders like they did with Ghana in 2015 because they broke away from signing something that would legalize homosexuality in the country and cut out the clean water trade?

Australia had full support of external countries to built it up, they didn;'t just magically get resources that weren't on the island by waving a magic wand.

The comparisons are poor, and then there's this issue where it's now ALL African countries despite the fact there are major economic powers in the state, but the media will ignore those and will put focus on Southern African countries like SA and Zimbabwe.

Apparently all the African countries are at war and every country has migrations rates in the tens of millions why we ignore Asia and Eastern Europe having higher rates leaving their countries. ''

The congo is the worst of them because when that one was let go from colonialism it was set-up to be a cold war proxy as soon as it was "released" and then corporations have owned it ever since, we have international companies with congolese working for them getting the minerals and all the cobalts and other materials you use in your every day electronics, and every "ruler" who tried to kick them out was sacked, there are armies from the UN, EU, and several African countries that are not Congolese in the Congo, the capital is on a plane way near the border on the far west of the country, it's not even a country, it's basically a slave zone where some rebel groups are desparately trying to take the country back by fighting with all the other countries and the UN. There are videos of rebels shooting at troops waving Rwandian and British flags, surely there's something more going on here.

But I guess it's easier to be lazy and blame the "people" of the country that don't even "control" the country where near half the population isn't even from the country,. That makes sense. Wait...

high birth rate
Lol, ok what's that 5 countries out of 54? We really going to pretend the "continent" is over populated? Europe has a higher ratio.

while asking for handouts from racist whites
Most countries there aren't asking for anything, some of the countries that got hand outs if any (there's some misinformation with that) were to cover up things that other organisations did like, when hundreds of thousands of Ghana residents died of bad water in the south eastern area because of the EU/UN cutting off water plant construction because Ghana told that British guy that said he would sanction them for not accepting gays to go fuck himself.

Sure there are some exceptions like most of the Southern African countries below Tanzania but these countries were asking for hand outs since the early 1900's so that's nothing new. (though people like to pretend that didn't happen)
 

JordanN

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How many people are fleeing Asia these days? Thousands Millions?
How many people are fleeing Eastern Europe these days? Thousands? Millions?

Why can't none of them organize and take back even one country?

Why are they fleeing to America, Europe, and Canada?

Now that I think about it didn't you used to complain about Asians in Canada?

Hmmm.....
Last post: December 28th, 2018

Although I'm sure I could find a more recent example.

From August 5th, 2019
Actually there is a third point I want to mention:
3. Brain drain. I think Western countries have benefited from this far too long. We need to stop accepting doctors,scientists,businessmen from various 3rd world countries. These countries will not improve because the people who do possess high levels of education and sophistication do not care to stay behind and fix them.
We can assume "3rd world countries" encompasses those in Asia as well. But otherwise, my viewpoints remain consistent all this time.

Regarding Eastern European migration, I'll have to do more research on that topic (so I can quickly refer to facts instead of any guesses).
 

merlinevo

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Lol this stupid talking point where we pretend that Africa isn't having UN and other world org troops coming in killing people and disposing governments that don't obey their agenda.

But when It's Europe, South America, or the Middle East it's "wests" fault because "they caused" the issue but when it's Africa it's the africans fault.

How many Asian countries were colonized? Not many.
Almost all of them?

Asian colonies from the 19th century to the end of the Second World War
The following list shows the colonial powers following the end of World War II in 1945, their colonial or administrative possessions and date of decolonization.

United Kingdom:
Afghanistan (1919)
India (1947)
Pakistan (1947)
Burma (1948)
Palestine (1948)
Ceylon (1948)
Malaya (1957)
North Borneo (1963)
Sarawak (1963)
Singapore (1963)
Brunei (1984)
Hong Kong (1997)
France:
Vietnam (1945)
Cambodia (1953)
Laos (1953)
French India (1954)
Portugal:
Portuguese India (1961)
Macau (1999)
East Timor (1975/2002)
Spain:
Guam (1898)
Philippines (1898)
Federated States of Micronesia (1899)
Northern Mariana Islands (1899)
Palau (1899)
Netherlands:
Indonesia (1945)
Netherlands New Guinea (1962)
Australia:
Papua New Guinea (1975)
United States:
Philippines (1946)
Japan:
North Korea (1945)
South Korea (1945)
Taiwan (1945)
Republic of China (1912–1949) Manchuria (Manchukuo), Northern China (1945)

You seem to have a very selective interpretation and understanding of world history. Almost the whole of the asian continent was colonialized by various european powers, yet after winning their independence after WW2, many of the asian countries have made tremendous social and economic progress. Japan, China, and South Korea are global super powers.

The same cannot be said of any african nation, which seemingly have not made much progress and in some cases even made less progress. Countries like South Africa and Zimbabwe are now doing worst in terms of the economy and equality than they did before their independence movement. Taking away land from whites and kicking them out of african destroyed Zimbabwe and appears to be happening to south africa. It's a tough reality but a reality nonetheless.
 

MrTickles

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Millions of Africans in the west are failing to improve too. Maybe it's less the system, more the target demographic.

There are African states that are seeing rapid growth now. But its from a very low base and those that have managed to pull ahead and build sizable middle income communities are oil export countries. I think Kenya and Ethiopia are standouts because they've begun moving into higher value goods manufacturing. They produce cell phones, vehicles, tractors, etc. This has never been the case before in Africa. However sub-Saharan Africa leaves much to be desired. Even South Africa is rapidly regressing, its economy and infrastructure is unraveling.
 
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Lanrutcon

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Millions of Africans in the west are failing to improve too. Maybe it's less the system, more the target demographic.

There are African states that are seeing rapid growth now. But its from a very low base and those that have managed to pull ahead and build sizable middle income communities are oil export countries. I think Kenya and Ethiopia are standouts because they've begun moving into higher value goods manufacturing. They produce cell phones, vehicles, tractors, etc. This has never been the case before in Africa. However sub-Saharan Africa leaves much to be desired. Even South Africa is rapidly regressing, its economy and infrastructure is unraveling.
Sir, thank you for using "sub-Saharan" instead of "south Africa".
 

Afro Republican

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You seem to have a very selective interpretation and understanding of world history. Almost the whole of the asian continent was colonialized by various european powers, yet after winning their independence after WW2, many of the asian countries have made tremendous social and economic progress. Japan, China, and South Korea are global super powers.

The same cannot be said of any african nation, which seemingly have not made much progress
Which is a lie.

You base your entire concept on bad media information (yet you'll say you want trust the media on local political issues.) and on countries in Southern africa.

Japan was literally given everything that have and they were built up with Trillions of dollars in investment name one country one African country that received that aid?

Korea was basically owned by the US after the proxy war there and they were given tons of schooling, training, and trillions of dollars in investment.

There's free books online from the time periods easy to find showing you how much was invested and the concerns of how much was given to them.

40 years ago 90% of china was basically farmers until the world basically gave them access to IP, put their factories there, put a lot of business secrets there, and invested trillions of dollars overe there in exchange for slave labor.

And notice China still isn't a first world country and never will be.

How about Mongolia, Laos, Cambodia? I can name 7 African countries that get more businesses internationally working with them than any of these asian countries.

There's a reason why you never hear about any other asian countries except Japan, Korea, and China, none of which got out of their shit by their-selves.

Meanwhile the Congo, was drawn around multiple conflicting terrorizes and was set-up as a proxy for the cold war right before they were given independence.

Angola has a civil war that didn't end until the early 2000s, yet recovered and has better city development and less crime rate than japan did in the same 17 year time frame (before japan cracked down on guns and basically started having the government control the state.) which would have been better if they got trillions of dollars in western, especially America aid, which they will never get.

Name one Asian country that was colonized with border drawn around ex-empires ethnic tribes that hated each other with known land disputes?

Zero

Name one African country that got trillions of dollars in infrastructure, technology, and educational aid?

Zero.

Name one Asian country that had a massive civil war that didn't end until the late 90's or early 2000's that had UN troops aiming to destroy infrastructure?

Nothing.

This notion that the "Asian countries" recovered, when there are ZERO comparable circumstances is nothing more than a Stormfront talking point that has never made sense.

Meanwhile more businesses went to Kenya than japan (recently), yet the country isn't much too look at and doesn't have much there. Oh wait.....

Kenya also has the biggest technology improvements and infrastructure in Africa, and people are taking videos and proving this despite media coverage putting out village pictures from 50 years ago from a different country saying it's what an urban area in Kenya looks like today. But people still lie and say SA is the strongest in Africa, which artificially pumping up SA has been a thing since the British helped armed "communist rebels" to help take over Ethiopia which they wanted to fall down so they could prop SA up.

Also the UN punished kenya and broke their economy partnered with the world bank 10 years ago for trying to kick violent somalis out.

Name one Asian country that has similar nonsense done to them? One eastern European country? One European country? One South American country?

How many middle eastern and Asian ex-french colonies still pay full french colonial taxes in 2019?


Zero.

It's almost like your white nationalist talking points aren't based in reality and Africa and Asia aren't comparable. While also basing the entire Continent on the historically weakest region on the continent, which is all countries south of Tanzania.

Well except Botswana, they were doing well until the UN basically authorized an organization in SA to CONTROL THEIR GOVERNMENT, and MADE THEM LEGALIZE GAY MARRIAGE AND LGBT POLICIES. What happened to sovereignty?

But hey guys the Asians has all these things happen to them right???

Fucking ridiculous.
 

MisterFalcon

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South Korea applies for most of those. Colonized by a cruel imperial power, a massive civil war, artificial borders, US backed dictators.

And SK was poorer then many African nations in the 1960's.
 

Afro Republican

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. But its from a very low base and those that have managed to pull ahead and build sizable middle income communities are oil export countries. I
This is also false.

Also there are multiple countries that have been building cars and cellphones and others for decades such as Gahan, Tanzania, among others.

Yet for some reason the World organizations put the biggest trade restrictions on Africans.

Yet there are almost none for Asia.

Hence the media will give you misinformation hat there's nothing produced in Africa.

Yet multiple African countries have products from at least 20 different African countries sold in stores.

You have white people on Youtube videos that are current or from 30 years ago saying "wow I didn't know things were made here at all."

I wonder who's fault that is........

Also Nigeria is really only where it is now because of what was the Biafra, which the European nations helped stop from seceding from Nigeria and then the Northern ethinic groups and the Yaruba took the credit, hence why the whole nation is slowly imploding.

It's almost like the best interest of Africa isn't in the minds of Europe or any international "world" organization and they would rather spread the lie there's nothing there.
 

MisterFalcon

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This 'trillions of aid for Korea' seems to be totally made up. Korea (and Taiwan) simply went to work improving their countries rather then pointing at their former colonial overlords and demanding they make them wealthy.

Total aid to Taiwan:
Massive American assistance has helped China achieve its outstanding military posture and civil well-being. Military aid since 1950 totals some US$2.2 billion and economic aid amounts to US$1,361 million. The economic aid total includes US$952 million in grants, US$181 million in development loans, and US$227 million in farm surpluses. The surpluses are partly gifts and partly loans under Public Law 480.
A few billion spread over decades.