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Let's talk about Demon Souls on PlayStation 5 and its relation to Xbox Series X cross-gen releases

DynamiteCop!

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So we've all seen the controversy being thrown around by some detractors saying how Microsoft having a cross-gen period is going to compromise what can be done with a next-gen game and yada, yada, yada... We've already been over it at length.

Well in that case then why are so many people hyping up Demon Souls as a next-gen PlayStation 5 release?

If you look at Shadow of the Colossus for PlayStation 4 they used the original game engine for game logic and environmental geometry parameters while overlaying the Bluepoint engine as the graphics layer so it looked modern but played largely the same. The underlying code was essentially two generations old yet no one seemed to have a problem with that. And let's be honest here, if they messed with the game logic from Demon Souls a lot of people would be really pissed.

I mean you can't have your cake and eat it too, so which is it? Why is this something to glorify, a self admitted two generation old game with a fresh coat of paint but a hybrid of the last generation and next-generation game is suddenly a huge problem?

Let's hear the logic.
 

DynamiteCop!

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This thread: Let’s discuss a topic where non of us have any clue about any of the upcoming next gen games /exclusives.
How fun!!!!
Oh please...

It's all hypothetical at this point but people seem pretty solidified in knowing what's coming so why not discuss the trends people are presently pushing and the rift in logic as a result.
 
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Agnostic2020

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Oh please...

It's all hypothetical at this point but people seem pretty solidified in knowing what's coming so why not discuss the trends people are presently pushing and rift in logic as a result.
We have no idea what exclusives are coming to ps5 at launch or Xbox series x. Maybe MS will have 3rd party timed exclusive at xsx launch . Who knows now ? We ll know in few months
 

DynamiteCop!

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We have no idea what exclusives are coming to ps5 at launch or Xbox series x. Maybe MS will have 3rd party timed exclusive at xsx launch . Who knows now ? We ll know in few months
As I said, this doesn't stop people from thinking they know the future. It also doesn't stop them from peddling a foundation of logic in one hand to justify something while disregarding that logic in another to tear something else down.

People need to be held accountable for what they say.
 

Agnostic2020

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As I said, this doesn't stop people from thinking they know the future. It also doesn't stop them from peddling a foundation of logic in one hand to justify something while disregarding that logic in another to tear something else down.

People need to be held accountable for what they say.
People say a lot of non sense things. U would make ur life painful trying to correct people who have made up their mind. Once everything is known they just simply say ok and continue with what they were saying before it.
 

Monkeygourmet

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It’s quite simple.

Should a solid Demon Souls remake come out it will be just one part of the way Sony presents it’s next gen offerings.

It will be coupled with new IP’s, Sequels to existing IP’s, Remasters / Upgrades, moneyhatted 3rd parties, VR and VR exclusives, Indie exclusives and Japanese titles.

All these will be rolled out or shown over the year that MS’s Series X is presenting itself as a game pass and third party machine with the promise of ‘things to come’... essentially it’s a Xbox X on steroids for at least a year.

Does this explain things to you?
 

Gloggins

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Do the people looking forward to a Demon's Souls remake really care what Microsoft are doing? What's the link? Has any rumour mentioned it as a cross gen PS4 / PS5 release?

A Demon's Souls PS5 remake has been talked / dreamed about for some time., before any concrete details about Series X were shared.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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It’s quite simple.

Should a solid Demon Souls remake come out it will be just one part of the way Sony presents it’s next gen offerings.

It will be coupled with new IP’s, Sequels to existing IP’s, Remasters / Upgrades, moneyhatted 3rd parties, VR and VR exclusives, Indie exclusives and Japanese titles.

All these will be rolled out or shown over the year that MS’s Series X is presenting itself as a game pass and third party machine with the promise of ‘things to come’... essentially it’s a Xbox X on steroids for at least a year.

Does this explain things to you?
In other words you're making the bias assertion that Sony is going to come out of the woodwork with everything you can possibly imagine and Microsoft is going to have nothing.

What a great hot take.
 

Monkeygourmet

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In other words you're making the bias assertion that Sony is going to come out of the woodwork with everything you can possibly imagine and Microsoft is going to have nothing.

What a great hot take.
I can only go on historical proof.

MS has said outright there are no exclusives first party titles for the first year.

MS has cancelled many first party titles last gen and relied on ‘safe’ releases of Forza / Halo / Gears etc.

MS has not put it’s hat in the ring regarding VR.

MS is STILL hoping to bridge gaps in the Japanese market - although that is obviously lost.

I’m not saying Sony is bringing all these at launch but MS are giving the winner of last gen a whole year to start to show these offerings coupled with the fact they will already have a good few exclusives under their belt - by then... wow, great strategy there...

Just to add, it’s ironic you calling this a ‘hot take’ when your topic is just that... Demon Souls hasn’t even been officially announced yet...
 
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Aion002

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So... Demon's Souls started a genre last gen, you know? The souls genre, which now has a ton of fans... And many people didn't played, because DS didn't sold that much, it was kind of a obscure PS3 game... Now that many people know about it, they want to play it. And for those who already played, like me, well.... It's freaking awesome dude... If there was a port for the NES, I would probably be hyped!


Also, Souls fans are the best fans in hyping things.
 
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markusfenix75

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I can only go on historical proof.

MS has said outright there are no exclusives first party titles for the first year.

MS has cancelled many first party titles last gen and relied on ‘safe’ releases of Forza / Halo / Gears etc.

MS has not put it’s hat in the ring regarding VR.

MS is STILL hoping to bridge gaps in the Japanese market - although that is obviously lost.

I’m not saying Sony is bringing all these at launch but MS are giving the winner of last gen a whole year to start to show these offerings coupled with the fact they will already have a good few exclusives under their belt - by then... wow, great strategy there...

Just to add, it’s ironic you calling this a ‘hot take’ when your topic is just that... Demon Souls hasn’t even been officially announced yet...
What?

Microsoft said they won't have any Xbox Series X exclusives. Meaning they won't have first-party games that will ignore Xbox One entirely in first year of Xbox Series X lifespan. They will have first-party games. Big difference here. So stop saying what is not true.

You realize that Halo: Infinite IS first-party game and IS launching on a same day as Xbox Series X, right?
 

DynamiteCop!

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What?

Microsoft said they won't have any Xbox Series X exclusives. Meaning they won't have first-party games that will ignore Xbox One entirely in first year of Xbox Series X lifespan. They will have first-party games. Big difference here. So stop saying what is not true.

You realize that Halo: Infinite IS first-party game and IS launching on a same day as Xbox Series X, right?
Yeah, this crap is getting ridiculous, people spinning it as literally no games.
 

Clear

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I mean you can't have your cake and eat it too, so which is it? Why is this something to glorify, a self admitted two generation old game with a fresh coat of paint but a hybrid of the last generation and next-generation game is suddenly a huge problem?

Let's hear the logic.
One is a comprehensive remake of a 10+ year old title, rebuilt from the ground up likely with new features and content, the other is a currently available game patched to run at higher resolution/framerate.

Its apples and oranges.
 

Branthrax

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I don't think people would be happy if all you got from Sony for the first couple of years was old games with better graphics.
Demon Soul’s especially. It’s a niche title that nobody bought when it first came out and no one is gonna spend $500 to spend another $60 to play it.
 

GribbleGrunger

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Demon Soul’s especially. It’s a niche title that nobody bought when it first came out and no one is gonna spend $500 to spend another $60 to play it.
That's insane, man. I think perhaps people will buy the PS5 and then consider buying Demon's Souls. And actually, it was due to the good sales of Demon's Souls that you got Dark Souls ...
 
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Monkeygourmet

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What?

Microsoft said they won't have any Xbox Series X exclusives. Meaning they won't have first-party games that will ignore Xbox One entirely in first year of Xbox Series X lifespan. They will have first-party games. Big difference here. So stop saying what is not true.

You realize that Halo: Infinite IS first-party game and IS launching on a same day as Xbox Series X, right?
That’s what I said though? Cross generation titles, not exclusive first party titles that can only be played on the Series X.

It makes the need to upgrade significantly less, especially if you own an X already.

The whole point of starting a new generation is new titles that cannot be played on the older hardware. Then after that it’s good will to have some crossovers but the whole point Initially is ‘moving on’.

What’s both hilarious and sad is that MS fans are actually defending this stance as a GOOD thing rather than simply acknowledging MS’s series X exclusive offerings are just not ready yet.

That’s the blindest fanboy mental gymnastics I’ve seen in a looooong time.

Even Xbox One had Ryse and Panzer Dragoon and a few others to attempt to usher in the new generation.

Ryse even at 900p really showed what next gen could be capable of and made for good showings in store demos.

MS has completely regressed and are trying to pretend it’s protecting legacy and being for the players with this approach.

Plain fact is Sony will do similar AND have exclusives. That’s a win / win.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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One is a comprehensive remake of a 10+ year old title, rebuilt from the ground up likely with new features and content, the other is a currently available game patched to run at higher resolution/framerate.

Its apples and oranges.
If you're using game logic from a 10+ year old title you're not rebuilding it from the ground up, that's the exact opposite of that. Also that's not true either because development can go the other way as well, games can be downported, they can be stripped for operation...

It's not apples to oranges because regardless of what the game is people are fine with two generation old mechanics while on the other hand not okay with possibly one gen old mechanics...

There's no logic in it.

Let's hear a tiny bit of logic from you first.
Lazy posts...
 
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Monkeygourmet

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If you're using game logic from a 10+ year old title you're not rebuilding it from the ground up, that's the exact opposite of that. Also that's not true either because development can go the other way as well, games can be downported, they can be stripped for operation...

It's not apples to oranges because regardless of what the game is people are fine with two generation old mechanics while on the other hand not okay with possibly one gen old mechanics...

There's no logic in it.

Lazy posts...
Are you purposefully dense?

If Sony released the PS5 and the only ‘exclusive’ they had was Demon Souls remaster (a niche title generally played by the hardcore), then yes that would be a strange decision.

This will not happen though. If Demon Souls is included in or near their launch it will be just PART of their line up.

They will have other exclusives with many more to follow.

Demon Souls would be the ‘icing on the cake’ for hardcore gamers, that’s all.

MS currently has Halo. A game you can play on the Xbox X and also an unproven entity considering the last 2 Halo titles and collection were god awful, even by Halo fans standard.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Are you purposefully dense?

If Sony released the PS5 and the only ‘exclusive’ they had was Demon Souls remaster (a niche title generally played by the hardcore), then yes that would be a strange decision.

This will not happen though. If Demon Souls is included in or near their launch it will be just PART of their line up.

They will have other exclusives with many more to follow.

Demon Souls would be the ‘icing on the cake’ for hardcore gamers, that’s all.

MS currently has Halo. A game you can play on the Xbox X and also an unproven entity considering the last 2 Halo titles and collection were god awful, even by Halo fans standard.
Regardless of where "fans" lay their opinions on the last Halo offerings they all scored well and all sold millions upon millions, so that's neither here nor there. Also if you think that's all that's going to be on the table for launch you're equally fooling yourself.
 

AV

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If you're using game logic from a 10+ year old title you're not rebuilding it from the ground up, that's the exact opposite of that. Also that's not true either because development can go the other way as well, games can be downported, they can be stripped for operation...

It's not apples to oranges because regardless of what the game is people are fine with two generation old mechanics while on the other hand not okay with possibly one gen old mechanics...

There's no logic in it.

Lazy posts...
Assuming a DS remake even exists, and assuming it's coming out for PS5 (if not both), your fundamental flaw is still that you're comparing a remake to new games.

A remake is, or at least should be, a fairly known quantity. People expect the game they've loved for X years with a new lick of paint, maybe some neat little new features or quality-of-life changes, but that's about it.

A new game is a new game, people's expectations of a new game (whether it's cross-gen or not) are significantly higher than their expectations of a PS2 game remake. Whether or not you agree that people should worry about cross-gen limiting the scope of new games, remakes have nothing to do with it.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Assuming a DS remake even exists, and assuming it's coming out for PS5 (if not both), your fundamental flaw is still that you're comparing a remake to new games.

A remake is, or at least should be, a fairly known quantity. People expect the game they've loved for X years with a new lick of paint, maybe some neat little new features or quality-of-life changes, but that's about it.

A new game is a new game, people's expectations of a new game (whether it's cross-gen or not) are significantly higher than their expectations of a PS2 game remake. Whether or not you agree that people should worry about cross-gen limiting the scope of new games, remakes have nothing to do with it.
Well I beg to differ, because regardless of it starting from a legacy position a game is a game, is a game, and it's still going to be offered as a PlayStation 5 game tied to legacy mechanics. If it was truly a remake this wouldn't be the case but they've shown this is not how they operate, so how can people get all excited to play a game of yesteryear mechanically but it's somehow a problem with mechanics that aren't even remotely as old new game or not?

I don't care about your nostalgia, it shouldn't be a problem in general and people create fake expectations of new-generation games.
 
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AV

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a game is a game, is a game
This is junk and you know it. People have wildly different expectations of games based on their price, whether it's a remake or new, what franchise it's attached to, its developer and publisher, etc, etc.

If you pay $60 for a game, you expect the quality that that price point represents. The SotC remake was a $40 game and there's nothing to indicate a Demon's Souls remake would be any different.

A brand new game can have very outdated mechanics and still exceed people's expectations in other ways, be it through the presentation and graphics, the level of writing, whatever. RDR2 is one of the biggest games ever and the actual gameplay is by far the worst part of it.
 

markusfenix75

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That’s what I said though? Cross generation titles, not exclusive first party titles that can only be played on the Series X.

It makes the need to upgrade significantly less, especially if you own an X already.

The whole point of starting a new generation is new titles that cannot be played on the older hardware. Then after that it’s good will to have some crossovers but the whole point Initially is ‘moving on’.

What’s both hilarious and sad is that MS fans are actually defending this stance as a GOOD thing rather than simply acknowledging MS’s series X exclusive offerings are just not ready yet.

That’s the blindest fanboy mental gymnastics I’ve seen in a looooong time.

Even Xbox One had Ryse and Panzer Dragoon and a few others to attempt to usher in the new generation.

Ryse even at 900p really showed what next gen could be capable of and made for good showings in store demos.

MS has completely regressed and are trying to pretend it’s protecting legacy and being for the players with this approach.

Plain fact is Sony will do similar AND have exclusives. That’s a win / win.
cross-gen exclusives = no exclusives?

strange logic.

I mean, only few GAF members can spin something good to absolute negative thing in the world, especially, when company in topic is Microsoft, right?

Tell me, why is it good to artificially "lock" first-party content to next-gen only, if that game was built up with old-gen in mind? (Halo Infinite is in development for 5 years). Just because "next-gen is here and that's how things worked in previous generations?"

You do you man. If you are eager to buy PS5 just beacuse Sony locked few games to "only PS5" then there is nothing to stop you. Just don't pretend that you have slight interest in Xbox, ok? :)

Cheers
 
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1) Demon's Souls would be 1 game out of many
2) Demon's Souls is amazing and many people can't/couldn't play it because it is on PS3
3) No need for a third point because first two points are enough and I have no idea how this relates to Xbox bottlenecking themselves with the Xbox One.
 
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danhese007

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What in the actual fuck are you talking about? What does Shadow of Colossus remake using the PS2 game logic part of the engine have to do with Microsoft not having any 1st party exclusive by their own admittance for the first 2 years?

There's grasping at straws to justify a Microsoft decision and then there's this nonsense. What logic are you looking for? People simply expect first party exclusives at launch. Doesn't mean there won't be cross gen stuff as well as remakes and remasters of older tittles.
 

Grinchy

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3) No need for a third point because first two points are enough and I have no idea how this relates to Xbox bottlenecking themselves with the Xbox One.
I think the OP feels that if he can find one example of a "cross-gen game" (not that this would even constitute one) that people would feel excited for on PS5, then they can no longer say that Microsoft's "strategy" to only have these kinds of games for a full year is bad.

It's a stretch that could land him in the Fantastic Four.
 

DynamiteCop!

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So 1 game vs all exclusive games? Where is the logic in this? Why are you butthurt? You seem more and more as the biggest MS fanboy on Neogaf.
During the course of this cross-gen period (1 year) a game like Demon Souls would no doubt represent probably 20% of total 'first party' output for that period of time. So it's not like one example is less than required to bridge this divide.
 

Psykodad

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cross-gen exclusives = no exclusives?

strange logic.

I mean, only few GAF members can spin something good to absolute negative thing in the world, especially, when company in topic is Microsoft, right?

Tell me, why is it good to artificially "lock" first-party content to next-gen only, if that game was built up with old-gen in mind? (Halo Infinite is in development for 5 years). Just because "next-gen is here and that's how things worked in previous generations?"

You do you man. If you are eager to buy PS5 just beacuse Sony locked few games to "only PS5" then there is nothing to stop you. Just don't pretend that you have slight interest in Xbox, ok? :)

Cheers
People are talking about next-gen only games.

Come on now, you know it very well and it isn't unreasonable to expect at least 1 in a consoles first year.
 

PSlayer

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imo Demon's Souls is one of those gems that came too soon and too undercooked.

I can't speak for everyone but for me the reason why i want a Demon's souls remake is simply because the "Souls formula" is mature now and publishers like Sony know that shit is hot and won't force devs to rush the game into the market like they did back in 2009.

Basically i want to see what Demon's Souls could be with the polishment that it didn't have back then.
 
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TheGreatYosh

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You tell em! Since Demon's Souls will be the only PS5 exclusive for the first 2 years. It's not that a big a deal that Xbox games will be held back by the One.
 
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markusfenix75

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People are talking about next-gen only games.

Come on now, you know it very well and it isn't unreasonable to expect at least 1 in a consoles first year.
Yup. It isn't

Also, it is reasonable to expect "good" exclusives at console launch, but we had crap like Killzone: ShadowFall, Ryse: Son of Rome, Crimson Dragon and Knack last time and probably best exclusive was Resogun.
 
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hunthunt

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Demons Souls in PS5 will be 60 fps 4k raytraced and with a highly polished and refined gameplay and balanced pace thanks to the consultory of Miyazaki (played a big role and had a beta version in his desktop every week) will make Bloodborne look like fucking Ryse Son of Rome

11/10

source: my dreams
 
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Monkeygourmet

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Have you seen the new Halo Infinty?!!

No wow that looks cool, what’s it on?!!

It’s on Xbox Series X!!!!

Ohhh that’s a shame I only have an Xbox One...

It’s ok! You can play it on that too!

Okay, I will, thanks.

>end thread
 

Psykodad

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I missed out on the demons souls hype train, sadly. I caught on later, but still haven’t played it.

Demon Souls was Sony funded wasn’t it?
Yes, a collab between Sony Japan Studios and From Software.

I believe they initially only made 700k-ish copies back then because they didn't expect the game to do very well. Lol
 
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