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[Forkball]

MAJOR ORAS SPOILERS

While the Pokemon story and mythos started off as fairly simple, it has become so convoluted and bizarre. Game Freak took it to the next step with ORAS. Let's briefly look at the HISTORY OF POKEMON:

Gen I: Scientists attempt to clone Mew, thought to be the progenitor of Pokemon, and create Mewtwo. Mewtwo causes havoc and escapes, science vs. nature blah blah also some Pokemon may come from the moon.

Gen II: Legendary Pokemon are akin to mythological beasts and affect the weather or something. Probably the least crazy legendary backstory.

Gen III: Legendary Pokemon helped shape the world. Not too wild, I mean it's clearly based on similar myths we have here. Think of the legendary Pokemon like super dinosaurs.

Gen IV: Oh boy. Pokemon can now affect space, time, spacetime, the idea of consciousness, and go through dimensions. Also the bad guy wants to create a new reality, the most JRPG motive ever. Also the fucking GOD of Pokemon appears.

Gen V: Something with yin yang dragons, and the three musketeers, also more weather-affecting Pokemon. A castle burst through the ground but let's ignore that.

Gen VI: A nine foot tall homeless man named AZ helps you stop a Pokenuke fueled by dead Pokemon that he created 3,000 years ago.

The Pokemon timeline went like this: Gen I/III are concurrent and the beginning of the story. Three years later, Gen II/IV happen concurrently. Then about ten or so years later, Gen V happens. After several more years, we have Gen VI.

While ORAS' story is almost identical to the original games, it has one major addition: Delta Episode. Delta Episode is a post-game storyline that fleshes out some things. And by flesh out, I mean literally renders the Pokeuniverse in twain.

Delta Episode has you track down Zinnia, someone who looks like she fell out of a Nippon Ichi SRPG. She descends from a tribe of people that worshipped Rayquaza since he told Kyogre and Groudon to simmer down. They could invoke him, and they even accidentally made him mega evolve via a meteor. Well guess what, ANOTHER meteor is coming to hit Hoenn. The scientists in Mossdeep have a brilliant plan: what if we just threw the meteor into another dimension? First of all, the two story Mossdeep Space Center has DIMENSION RENDERING TECHNOLOGY? Holy shit, how is this legal? If I was Team Aqua/Magma I would be trying to steal that instead of waking up a Pokemon. Anyways, Zinnia pops up and destroys the dimension opening dongle. She then implies a major revelation: Pokemon XY and ORAS take place in a completely different timeline/universe than the first five generations. Here is a full quote:

"My people know it. From generation to generation, we pass along the lore about the distortions in the world borne by the Mega Evolution mechanism. And about the existence of another world, which we have long observed to be just like this one and yet not the same... That's right. A Hoenn region that's almost exactly like this one we live in. Filled with Pokémon and people like us. A world where maybe the evolution of Pokémon took a slightly different path, where Mega Evolution is unknown... A world where that war 3,000 years ago...never happened. A world where the ultimate weapon was never even built. And in that Hoenn of that world... What would happen if one day, out of the blue, a meteoroid appeared? What would happen to the people of that world, without the technology to destroy the meteoroid or the power to warp it away? ... Looks like it's beyond the power of your imagination."

She is clearly referring to the original Ruby/Sapphire, as a world without the ancient Pokewar and Mega Evolutions. They pulled a Zelda on us. I am pretty baffled at this storyline decision. One thing I liked about Pokemon is how all the games were somewhat connected, with constant references and crossovers. It's unlike many RPG series where each game is in a completely different world or set very far apart. This revelation is especially interesting as there is a single character that appears in both Gen V and Gen VI, a detective named Looker. He appears again in an ORAS post-game area, but has amnesia. Wait, how did he appear in Gen V, which takes place in the original universe, AND the new XY/ORAS universe? The mysteries never end. Also, ORAS clearly takes place AFTER XY, so that may imply that Gen II-V have not even happened yet in the new universe.

So I know I'm kind of LttP with this plot point, but I thought it was a pretty wild retcon. It has so many implications and questions. It's kind of sad to just conveniently toss five generations of games into another universe. My memories are in this universe, not another one!

 

[V_Ben]

Good fucking grief, there's a Pokemon multiverse.

I shudder to think what a remake of Red would be like now.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Good fucking grief, there's a Pokemon multiverse.

I shudder to think what a remake of Red would be like now.

Smell ya later replaced with let's battle next time.

 

[QuiteWhittle]

So you're telling me there's a canon way to remove Mega-Evolution in future gens?

 

[Brickhunt]

They have a God and Space and Time monster, so in the end it shouldn't be too surprising.
Now we just need Pokémon: The Ocarina of Time version to explain how the timelines diverted.

 

[Firemind]

So you're telling me there's a canon way to remove Mega-Evolution in future gens?

By Gods, that is most satisfactory.

 

[Malick[AI]]

The Pokemon Bank is the link between dimensions.

 

[Hero Prinny]

Smell ya later replaced with let's battle next time.

Don't want the kid's feelings to get hurt after all.

 

[show me your skeleton]

so gamefreak went full kingdom hearts?
you never go full kingdom hearts.

 

[Oswen]

Yeah, they pulled a Zelda on us.
Gen I re-remakes are actually possible (and logical?!) now, can't wait for Crimson Fire Red and Verdant Leaf Green for the 20th anniversary.

 

[Aesnath]

MAJOR ORAS SPOILERS

While ORAS' story is almost identical to the original games, it has one major addition: Delta Episode. Delta Episode is a post-game storyline that fleshes out some things. And by flesh out, I mean literally renders the Pokeuniverse in twain.

...

She is clearly referring to the original Ruby/Sapphire, as a world without the ancient Pokewar and Mega Evolutions. They pulled a Zelda on us. I am pretty baffled at this storyline decision. One thing I liked about Pokemon is how all the games were somewhat connected, with constant references and crossovers. It's unlike many RPG series where each game is in a completely different world or set very far apart. This revelation is especially interesting as there is a single character that appears in both Gen V and Gen VI, a detective named Looker. He appears again in an ORAS post-game area, but has amnesia. Wait, how did he appear in Gen V, which takes place in the original universe, AND the new XY/ORAS universe? The mysteries never end. Also, ORAS clearly takes place AFTER XY, so that may imply that Gen II-V have not even happened yet in the new universe.

So I know I'm kind of LttP with this plot point, but I thought it was a pretty wild retcon. It has so many implications and questions. It's kind of sad to just conveniently toss five generations of games into another universe. My memories are in this universe, not another one!

Yeah, I caught that too--alternate realities are a bizarre option for any series. But, I guess it makes sense in that they have really emphasized the role that mega evolutions play and, that having been completely ignored in earlier generations, seems pretty odd if it existed in those games.

Still, when it comes to pokemon, story is easily the weakest element of the games. I hadn't thought that this could be a justification for future re-makes with megas enabled--probably part of the plan.

 

[Thunderstorm910]

The story in pokemon games is so bad tho

 

[Cheat Code]

The story in pokemon games is so bad tho

The (XY Spoilers)

Spoiler

Pokemon War

stuff was pretty interesting. The problem is a lot of the interesting stuff is either fan created or not mentioned enough.

 

[Boney]

So you're telling me there's a canon way to remove Mega-Evolution in future gens?

This

 

[Kinhow]

I don't put much thought in pokemon stories, but I thought the Multiverse was a real good excuse for implementing pokémon mega evolutions.

I hate mega evolutions, though. Can we go back to the universe that they don't exist in Gen VII?

 

[Skelter]

The story in pokemon games is so bad tho

Yup. I don't understand how people can be disappointed in the story for a Pokémon game when they're all equally shit. It's the gameplay that is great.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

At least that other backwards dimension had the foresight to build a Battle Frontier.

 

[doofy102]

Yup. I don't understand how people can be disappointed in the story for a Pokémon game when they're all equally shit. It's the gameplay that is great.

It's more the sense of being in a place that people like, and being in that place over a period of time (across game releases) and this multi-verse stuff kinda ruins the illusion.

 

[Andrefpvs]

This revelation is especially interesting as there is a single character that appears in both Gen V and Gen VI, a detective named Looker. He appears again in an ORAS post-game area, but has amnesia. Wait, how did he appear in Gen V, which takes place in the original universe, AND the new XY/ORAS universe? The mysteries never end.

If you'd like more fuel for this fire, the Looker in XY spoke and behaved in a very different way than in Platinum and Black and White. I don't know if this only happens in the localisation, though. It may well be that since his sidequest in XY had a bit of an emotional punchline, they decided that keeping his silly way of talking would ruin it.

Also, ORAS clearly takes place AFTER XY, so that may imply that Gen II-V have not even happened yet in the new universe.

I don't remember there being enough evidence to conclude that ORAS take place after XY. What are you basing this on?

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Bet you $10 this was an excuse to add and remove whatever features they desire based on how well it's received.
So if fans don't like Mega-Evo's then BAM! We're back in the original timeline

 

[Caronte]

Interesting read. I can't get over how complicated some Japanese stories are.

 

[Daemul]

So you're telling me there's a canon way to remove Mega-Evolution in future gens?

This right here.

 

[Alec]

Makes sense considering Hoopa can

Spoiler

move things between time and space

using those portals\rings.

It'd be neat to have to battle yourself from the original dimension. Or to team up with yourself.

 

[M0nochromatic]

So this means original Brandon still looks like an awesome ninja trainer, and this poser ass redesign is some alt version of where him where he had no taste? Praise Arceus

 

[woen]

Let's sum up the universes w/ and w/out the Mega-Evolutions.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Also, ORAS clearly takes place AFTER XY

It seems to take place before, based on Devon Corporation creating stuff like Repeat Balls while you're playing through the main story, but which are already globally available by the time XY happens ohgodwhydoIknowthis

 

[Cheebo]

Let's sum up the universes w/ and w/out the Mega-Evolutions.

Emerald and Platinum are very much in the original timeline still. I'd say Emerald kind of replaces R/S and Platinum replaced D/P in the original timeline much like FR/LG and HS/SS replace R/BY/Y and G/S/C.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Well pokemon was always a sci fi title...

 

[CassSept]

Makes sense considering Hoopa can

Spoiler

move things between time and space

using those portals\rings.

It'd be neat to have to battle yourself from the original dimension. Or to team up with yourself.

So Hoopa is literally stealing divine beings from different dimensions?

Jesus

 

[udivision]

Absolutely disgusting.

Why did they do this.

 

[Cheebo]

To sum it up it looks to be that the GameBoy & GameBoy Color games have been completely de-canonized and we are left with:

Timeline 1:
1. FireRed/LeafGreen
2. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
3. HeartGold/SoulSilver
4. Diamond/Pearl/Platinum
5. Black/White
6. Black 2/White 2

Timeline 2:
1. Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire
2. X/Y

 

[one_kill]

Absolutely disgusting.

Why did they do this.

Why is it disgusting?

 

[clay_ghost]

To sum it up it looks to be that the GameBoy & GameBoy Color games have been completely de-canonized and we are left with:

Timeline 1:
1. FireRed/LeafGreen
2. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
3. HeartGold/SoulSilver
4. Diamond/Pearl/Platinum
5. Black/White
6. Black 2/White 2

Timeline 2:
1. Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire
2. X/Y

he GameBoy & GameBoy Color games are another timeline where humans actually discovered pokemon time travel (GSC to RBY for original 151 pokemon)

 

[udivision]

Why is it disgusting?

It just makes things "weirder."

Introducing a new way to evolve is cool... but having that mean that the game no longer takes place in the same dimenison/timeline? Of course it's not really a big deal, but it seems like a completely unnecessary way to explain things that just raises more questions than anything.

 

[Forkball]

I don't remember there being enough evidence to conclude that ORAS take place after XY. What are you basing this on?

I just assumed that Looker got amnesia and washed up in Hoenn after his Kalos adventure. Also there were a lot of Kalos mentions in the game, especially saying that Kalos built their Battle Maison after Hoenn. Now that I think about it, there's not a lot of evidence showing that it's after XY, but not a whole lot that shows it's way before XY either.

 

[bomblord1]

I'm fairly certain the "other universe" is the opposite version of the one you played. Aka if you're playing Ruby it's Sapphire.

 

[Cheebo]

he GameBoy & GameBoy Color games are another timeline where humans actually discovered pokemon time travel (GSC to RBY for original 151 pokemon)

So we have 3 timelines then?

Timeline 1:
1. Red/Blue/Yellow
2. Gold/Silver/Crystal

Timeline 2:
1. FireRed/LeafGreen
2. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
3. HeartGold/SoulSilver
4. Diamond/Pearl/Platinum
5. Black/White
6. Black 2/White 2

Timeline 3:
1. Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire
2. X/Y

I'm fairly certain the "other universe" is the opposite version of the one you played. Aka if you're playing Ruby it's Sapphire.

It isn't. OR/AS made that very clear. The stuff called out for the other universe in say OR does not match AS, but the original R/S/E.

 

[Andrefpvs]

To sum it up it looks to be that the GameBoy & GameBoy Color games have been completely de-canonized and we are left with:

Timeline 1:
1. FireRed/LeafGreen
2. Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald
3. HeartGold/SoulSilver
4. Diamond/Pearl/Platinum
5. Black/White
6. Black 2/White 2

Timeline 2:
1. Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire
2. X/Y

You can take things even further and say that Gen I and II are their own timeline:

This is, of course, fans overspeculating. It'll be interesting to see what the upcoming games do with this, though.

 

[Daemul]

Let's sum up the universes w/ and w/out the Mega-Evolutions.

Switch out Ruby/Sapphire for Emerald and Diamond/Pearl for Platinum and this is perfect.

 

[ASIS]

What the hell happened to Pokemon?

Are you telling me that ALL of that is seen through the eyes of 10 year old trainers who's ultimate goal is to become champions of a tournament? WTF?!


I want them to go back to no storyline, seriously this is ridiculous.

 

[grandjedi6]

So you're telling me there's a canon way to remove Mega-Evolution in future gens?

Yeah... That's what I'm taking out of this too. At least Game Freak thinks ahead, sorta.

 

[Cheebo]

The 3 timeline theory seems to make the most sense.

 

[Boss Doggie]

There's more than three timelines.

YOU COUNT THE RINGS
ONE TWO AND THREE
LIFE GOES ON
ANYTHING GOES
COMING UP
POKEMON

 

[gosox333]

lol nah fuck that

I choose to believe they just replace the original r/s for simplicity's sake. I don't want to think about like 3 different timelines.

 

[Neiteio]

Now we wait for the Pokemon Historia to come along and reveal a third timeline where Red failed to defeat Blue

 

[Jezan]

So you're telling me there's a canon way to remove Mega-Evolution in future gens?

This is what I was thinking. I mean if Gamefreak ever wants to stop adding Mega evolutions, they will simply add an NPC saying how he/she wishes that Pokemon had a hidden power and he/she wonders if in an alternate universe his/her beloved Pinsir can evolve.

They have a God and Space and Time monster, so in the end it shouldn't be too surprising.
Now we just need Pokémon: The Ocarina of Time version to explain how the timelines diverted.

Red didn't become a Pokemon Master.

 

[woen]

You can take things even further and say that Gen I and II are their own timeline:

This is, of course, fans overspeculating. It'll be interesting to see what the upcoming games do with this, though.

Makes sense yep. This is maybe why we may see a Red/Green remake (on 3DS, gen 6 or 7?) before the D/P remake.

 

[Cheebo]

lol nah fuck that

I choose to believe they just replace the original r/s for simplicity's sake. I don't want to think about like 3 different timelines.

That doesn't fit in with OR/AS though. They make it pretty blatant that R/S is a different universe.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

lol nah fuck that

I choose to believe they just replace the original r/s for simplicity's sake. I don't want to think about like 3 different timelines.

Don't see why you have to. Two of them aren't active anymore, and the only active one only has 2 sets of games - ORAS followed by XY.

Pokemon's storylines get shittier and shittier over time. I preferred them when they were relatively non-intrusive and the world felt, uh, 'sensible' once you took in the original premise Pokemon exist. The concept of having Pokemon that can warp oceans and continents and time and space and dimensions on a grand scale that can also be captured in a Pokeball and ordered around by 10 year old kids just seemed beyond stupid and I thought that ever since RSE came out; it's not a nostalgia thing as I was uh... 9? when RSE came out; they're among the earlier Pokemon games I experienced. GSC had it best, I think - legendary Pokemon are just that: legendary. Very powerful and rare, and inspire myths and stories about them from prior centuries when only a very few would have encountered them, but certainly not capable of world-altering feats.

 

[Magnus]

The gen summaries in the OP made me giggle. Loved the Gen VI one.

I honestly stopped paying attention to the stories after the insanity of Gen V with N and the castle and all that garbage. Shit was on a Kingdom Hearts or multi-timeline Zelda level. It's not worth even thinking about. It's shit that I don't even think the creators have fully fleshed out, and trying to make connections now is a fool's errand.

But you can't deny what that lengthy quote in Delta Episode is supposed to be referring to.

I just don't think they're ever going to touch the 'old' universe again at this point. Mega Evolutions are a thing now, and the gameplay needs of the franchise trump whatever ridiculous 'canon' or story is in place. With games (especially games like Pokemon), you mould the story around gameplay needs. It's a distant second place concern.