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[Nibel]

Call Schreier if old

Saw this article on my Twitter feed linked by the beautiful Patrick from GiantBomb; it seems to be written by a N4G user named dedicatedtogamers - I don't know who is behind this, but I think that person did an excellent job of summing up my current feelings about Kotaku. And I know that many here feel the same.

I felt the need to talk about Kotaku - I mean it's clear at this point that even though there seem to be a very few really good articles and sometimes even big news that Kotaku's mostly full of these fucking weird articles that make your head spin when you realize how absurd they are in most cases. Gender issues and homophobia are a known problem in the industry just like in every other industry today, and I hope that one day this won't be the case anymore; but fuck me if it doesn't feel like Kotaku is using these subjects as a springboard for weird observations that don't offer solutions but fuel the fire even more.

What do you guys think of them? Is there really a place for them on GAF anymore despite their breaking news and rumors? I mean this can't go on forever: they post a questionable article and users spend pages and pages to discuss the obvious absurdity of it; there's a bunch of well-educated people in GAF that must have something to say

And if you know me, then you know that usually I don't make these kind of threads; but man, it's enough

#MelonSeedsFired

 

[katsubento]

Let's not talk about Kotaku. Problem solved.

 

[Viewtify]

If you stop talking, they might go away.

 

[TryHardShounen]

Let's not talk about Kotaku. Problem solved.

/thread

 

[MechaBowser]

Yes, let's please not give them more attention. I enjoy the good articles and write off everything else as fluff to meet quotas.

 

[cafemomo]

Kotaku is a website.

 

[Nibel]

Did any of you read my OP and the article in 2-3 minutes?

I want to discuss their place on GAF since you're suggesting to ignore them but that's not possible if their stuff is being posted here; or am I wrong here?

 

[cuyahoga]

Uh, Patrick was posting that article ironically to mock it and opine that it was incredibly stupid. Amazed that someone managed to miss that.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Say what you will repeatedly and angrily about Kotaku's output but an N4G user blog post with sections like this

In a document regarding Gawker's future plans (found in about 20 seconds using Google here: http://paidcontent.org/2013... it is detailed that Gawker planned on hiring several new "commerce specialists" for Kotaku and sister-site Jezebel (a female-focused website where a lot of Kotaku's gender-issue articles are cross-linked for additional ad revenue). This was just a few months ago at the end of January 2013. What is a "commerce specialst"?

QUOTE "The job listings describe the position as “a new type of service journalism” that includes “everything from posts about the cheapest deal on something our readers need to introducing them to new things they’ve never seen,” and notes that Gawker will be deriving revenue from those posts"​

The phrases that really caught my eye were "introducing them [readers] to new things they [readers] have never seen" and "Gawker will be deriving revenue from those posts". Is Kotaku's recent explosion (or should I say exploitation) of gender-driven articles something new, something the gaming industry has not seen? Yes, yes indeed. Is the s***-storm stirred up by these articles generating ad revenue for Kotaku and their parent company, Gawker? You bet.

In another article (here: http://adage.com/article/di... that addressed the same announcement by Gawker this past January, we see another side of the same story:

QUOTE"The company [Gawker] is working on ways to show past posts that have generated high revenue through affiliate links to readers who haven't yet seen them, Mr. Denton said."​

Interesting. So, Gawker (and by extension Kotaku) is trying to up ad revenue by cross linking posts. Even if you've only read a few Kotaku articles, you've probably noticed that they hyperlink the crap out of their own articles, giving you links to at least a dozen other articles they've written before you're done reading. You want to know an easy way to get ad revenue from these cross-links? Talk about the same topic over and over again. You want an even easier way to get ad revenue from these cross-links? Drum up an artificial controversy where the reader HAS to click back to other articles to get the full story. Oh. Gee. That's exactly what they've done with stories like "no wimmenz @ PS4 announcement" and "Vanillaware is run by juveniles", because those so-called stories have multiple pages on Kotaku, and of course they all link to one another, just to make sure you're getting the full story.

doesn't quite come across a thoughtful level-headed analysis of said output.

QUOTE: "We at Gawker wish to synergize our intellectual properties with social virality for maximum revenue optimization

Synergy with feminist agendas!? We report, you decide, dear readers...

 

[katsubento]

Did any of you read my OP and the article in 2-3 minutes?

I want to discuss their place on GAF since you're suggesting to ignore them but that's not possible if their stuff is being posted here; or am I wrong here?

Yes. I read quickly. My post stands.

 

[garfep]

I like Kotaku.

 

[BrokenEchelon]

They have next to no journalistic integrity left, and Patricia Hernandez is the most pathetic excuse for a "journalist" in this entire industry, if not the entire profession.

She makes Keighley look like Brian Williams.

I don't know what, if anything, their "news" posts contribute to GAF. Most of that shit is already found out by GAF and then circulates around on the aggregate news blogs, and their opinion/editorial pieces are--as previously mentioned--more or less garbage.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

What would it take to have them banned that hasn't already happened? Anytime their referenced here, it just equates to endless "loltaku" spam posts. Where is the point where the mods and community can agree they are beyond their usefulness?

 

[IrishNinja]

well, nibels

it's an interesting piece, and i thought the top comment sounded like...opiate-lite

Kotaku is owned by an advertising agency (as you've just shown). Their sole purpose is to generate revenue. Not to inform on, enrich or add meaningfully to gaming. It's just an avenue they exploit. Their method is outrageously simple yet effective. They provide drama.

Whether it's fabricating News, misrepresenting products or creating wedge issues (through the application of sensationalism, hyperbole and un/half truths) it all fair game to them. They then play this off as being the fault of an outside (anonymous) source or other fictitious party that can't be called to account. Or they make (sometimes) insane claims and then hide behind "It's an opinion" as though that absolves them of responsibility for whatever BS they've run with.

It's the way they work. When their revenue stream is threatened expect things to become more hysterical.

for years, i was really into the Kotaku community...about 2006/2007 or so they had some really intelligent posters that i still communicate with, but over time that was drowned out. fanboy warrior invasions - fueled by facebook logins and them basically doing away with the banhammer - were one thing, but at one point Gawker had some pay-per-click sort'tve model and guys like Bashcraft really seemed to be upping the ante on sensationalist headlines. there wasn't much reason to stay, and fortunately i got into GAF around that time.

i've heard the same kind've story about joystiq & other spots too, but usually the worst i hear is "the moderation just let it go to shit", not that site policy seemed to actively invite it.

Did any of you read my OP and the article in 2-3 minutes?

I want to discuss their place on GAF since you're suggesting to ignore them but that's not possible if their stuff is being posted here; or am I wrong here?

no, they clearly did not; this is the pain of putting effort into threads with certain topics, m'man

 

[Always-honest]

I read all Kotaku's stuff on Gaf....

in other words: don't pay too much attention to them if you hate them so much.

 

[Nibel]

Say what you will repeatedly and angrily about Kotaku's output but an N4G user blog post with sections like this



doesn't quite come across a thoughtful level-headed analysis of said output.

Fair enough; I saw it and thought it was a good starting point for a discussion; maybe I'm seeing things wrong, but I felt with the last few threads there seemed to be an urge to discuss them

If the participation stays like this, the thread can be closed I guess since I could have read those signs wrong from the community

 

[DSix]

Yes, most of us don't read kotaku, but the few who do and repost their shit as neogaf threads is still a problem. We should stop their bullshit from spreading.

Ban Kotaku.

 

[Parakeetman]

Call Schreier if old



Saw this article on my Twitter feed linked by the beautiful Patrick from GiantBomb; it seems to be written by a N4G user named dedicatedtogamers - I don't know who is behind this, but I think that person did an excellent job of summing up my current feelings about Kotaku. And I know that many here feel the same.

I felt the need to talk about Kotaku - I mean it's clear at this point that even though there seem to be a very few really good articles and sometimes even big news that Kotaku's mostly full of these fucking weird articles that make your head spin when you realize how absurd they are in most cases. Gender issues and homophobia are a known problem in the industry just like in every other industry today, and I hope that one day this won't be the case anymore; but fuck me if it doesn't feel like Kotaku is using these subjects as a springboard for weird observations that don't offer solutions but fuel the fire even more.

What do you guys think of them? Is there really a place for them on GAF anymore despite their breaking news and rumors? I mean this can't go on forever: they post a questionable article and users spend pages and pages to discuss the obvious absurdity of it; there's a bunch of well-educated people in GAF that must have something to say

And if you know me, then you know that usually I don't make these kind of threads; but man, it's enough

#MelonSeedsFired

Its not the first time that Kotaku really has been grabbing for hits / attention. Its basically been their MO for quite some time now all thanks to the parent company Gawker. The loss in visitors and other what nots is of their own fault by basically destroying the community with the constant changes and features that promotes elitism / favoritism.

In short its a site thats looking just to stir the pot and garner shock hits. Not really worth taking the time to visit and read.

The golden age of Kotaku has gone and left a long, long time ago.

well, nibels

it's an interesting piece, and i thought the top comment sounded like...opiate-lite

for years, i was really into the Kotaku community...about 2006/2007 or so they had some really intelligent posters that i still communicate with, but over time that was drowned out. fanboy warrior invasions - fueled by facebook logins and them basically doing away with the banhammer - were one thing, but at one point Gawker had some pay-per-click sort'tve model and guys like Bashcraft really seemed to be upping the ante on sensationalist headlines. there wasn't much reason to stay, and fortunately i got into GAF around that time.

i've heard the same kind've story about joystiq & other spots too, but usually the worst i hear is "the moderation just let it go to shit", not that site policy seemed to actively invite it.

no, they clearly did not; this is the pain of putting effort into threads with certain topics, m'man

Well said Irish.

 

[Jamie OD]

Saw this article on my Twitter feed linked by the beautiful Patrick from GiantBomb;

Funny thing is Patrick didn't tweet the article to praise it.

@patrickklepek "I'm actually deeply saddened by how many people took my last tweet to be a tacit endorsement of the conten within." "You see what you want to see, I guess."

 

[Router]

Somebody should create a chrome extension that replaces Kotaku articles with kittens.

 

[RSLAEV]

Hey, I'm willing to believe it. I used to be on the fence about Kotaku but that hit piece on Dragon's Crown was ridiculous. And I think they're more concerned with stirring up gender-war controversy than they are promoting gender equality.

 

[davepoobond]

who is kotaku

Spoiler

(see its already working)

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Kotaku belongs to a company that violated Reddit's free speech and privacy policies (and was subsequently blocked) in order to get a "scoop" on users who were posting pornography on an adult-only sub forum.

okay maybe i'm missing something but isn't this the time when people on reddit were posting shit like borderline child porn and gawker exposed some dude who was the ringleader of like ten subreddits devoted to shit like that and reddit claimed it was "violating free speech"

 

[sephi22]

I like Kotaku.

Bleh. IGN.
3/10 God Hand something something.
"Games Journalists" bah hah

/GAF

 

[China Dont Care]

You know what lets just talk about Patrick, that dude is kind of a annoying dick

 

[kitsuneyo]

Kotaku has good news scoops pretty often - I read them when linked from GAF. The rest of the time I don't read the site. Try it OP, you'll be bothered by the site no more.

 

[xJavonta]

Kotaku is absolute trash thanks to their shitty writers (namely Patricia Hernandez and Stephen Totilo). I don't know why they aren't a banned site yet.

You know what lets just talk about Patrick, that dude is kind of a annoying dick.

Used to think Klepek was really cool at G4. Now he's kind of just annoying and I prefer most of the Giantbomb staff over him.

One guy in the industry that always kills it is Adam Sessler though. Love his stuff.

 

[Deitus]

Wow, N4G calling out Kotaku as if they have some kind of moral high ground. I'd bet anything that this is just a click-bait attack designed to do the same thing they are accusing Kotaku of.

Edit: Oh, this was just a user blog? I guess my comment doesn't quite apply then.

 

[ant1532]

i think it's terrible and gets too much attention on neogaf lately like right noooooww
please no more kotakuuuuuu

 

[SMT]

I remember Hawktaku last year, Jeff, Pat, devs, Greggy Miller, mk creator, mega64 it was fun!
I hope they do another segment on the Bombcast LIVE so we can see them shoot the shit.

 

[NateDrake]

Wow, N4G calling out Kotaku as if they have some kind of moral high ground. I'd bet anything that this is just a click-bait attack designed to do the same thing they are accusing Kotaku of.

N4G didn't call out Kotaku. An N4G user called out Kotaku. Key difference. N4G doesn't produce any of its own content; it is all submitted by users from websites. Most of which is shit.

 

[Canis lupus]

The only time I get exposed to their absurdity is when someone makes a thread about their article. That cross linking articles seems awful.

 

[IrishNinja]

okay maybe i'm missing something but isn't this the time when people on reddit were posting shit like borderline child porn and gawker exposed some dude who was the ringleader of like ten subreddits devoted to shit like that and reddit claimed it was "violating free speech"

whoah, this happened? cause if so, +1 to Kotaku, -1 to Reddit

 

[Nibel]

Wow, N4G calling out Kotaku as if they have some kind of moral high ground. I'd bet anything that this is just a click-bait attack designed to do the same thing they are accusing Kotaku of.

Hey! Not to defend N4G here since I really don't follow their stuff at all, but that article was posted by a user in his N4G blog - I wanted to take it as a trigger to start some discussion, but if many agree that it is too flawed I will remove it from the OP at the speed of light/Nirolak

By the way; I was also a member on Kotaku years ago, but left when the redesign hit and the articles got weirder and weirder..

 

[Parakeetman]

N4G didn't call out Kotaku. An N4G user called out Kotaku. Key difference. N4G doesn't produce any of its own content; it is all submitted by users from websites. Most of which is shit.

Emphasis on "MOST OF WHICH IS SHIT"

Ill agree with that 100%. Seriously that site needs a X button to manually delete shitty articles like the 1000000000000 of fucking list articles.

 

[Delusibeta]

Eh. I would be hesitant to call feminist conspiracy. On the other hand, I'd also find it hard to believe that games journalism in general discovered feminism since Tropes vs Women, there has definitely been far, far more articles on the subject of women in video games after TvW's kickstarter compared to before.

 

[Parakeetman]

whoah, this happened? cause if so, +1 to Kotaku, -1 to Reddit

*Deleted the gawker link. No clicks 4 u~

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...y_gawker_when_will_law_enforcement_catch.html
http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/10/truth-lies-doxxing-internet-vigilanteism/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/16/reddit-violentacrez-gawker-expose

 

[xJavonta]

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...y_gawker_when_will_law_enforcement_catch.html

Props to Gawker for this

But they're still a piece of shit site.

 

[Tan]

Kotaku has good news scoops pretty often - I read them when linked from GAF. The rest of the time I don't read the site. Try it OP, you'll be bothered by the site no more.

Came in to say this. It's a shame so much of their popular content is garbage, they really have done some cool articles.

 

[JDSN]

The Kamitani thing was fabricated right to its bitter end, it was a frontloaded effort by the site that directly praised articles that called him homophobic and ridiculous. It was a complete effort of lazyness and callousness that made no atempt that hide that it was just an atempt to fish for hits.

 

[BocoDragon]

I'm ambivalent. On the one hand I'm sure Kotaku seeks a "socially meaningful" angle to gaming stories in order to drive clicks.... But on the other hand, it's not like the gaming industry shouldn't be discussing these issues.

Just getting on a soapbox and wagging a finger doesn't make you right... but the conversation that it sparks can be valid.

 

[Deitus]

N4G didn't call out Kotaku. An N4G user called out Kotaku. Key difference. N4G doesn't produce any of its own content; it is all submitted by users from websites. Most of which is shit.

Yeah, I noticed my mistake shortly after posting. I'm not that familiar with N4Gs output, other than constantly seeing their name associated with trash articles. Obviously you can't attribute user comments to any editorial intent though.

Hey! Not to defend N4G here since I really don't follow their stuff at all, but that article was posted by a user in his N4G blog - I wanted to take it as a trigger to start some discussion, but if many agree that it is too flawed I will remove it from the OP at the speed of light/Nirolak

By the way; I was also a member on Kotaku years ago, but left when the redesign hit and the articles got weirder and weirder..

I can understand that, but the article itself was pretty crappy. There are perhaps good points that were raised, but they are lost in a sea of logical leaps, jumping to conclusions, and poor writing. Which I guess makes more sense now that I know it was just a user blog post.

If you want to talk about Kotaku, that's fine. There's definitely a lot to discuss about their practices(but most people are only interested in drive by posting "loltaku"). But using that as the jumping off point kind of sets the discussion off on the wrong foot.

 

[darkside31337]

Kotaku is absolute trash thanks to their shitty writers (namely Patricia Hernandez and Stephen Totilo). I don't know why they aren't a banned site yet.

I think Totilo is a pretty solid writer, I've been reading his stuff all the way back to his MTV days but he is a pretty lousy editor in chief, I'm hard pressed to think of positive changes hes brought about on any level. Kotaku has really dropped off since Crecente left but honestly that has a lot more to do with Gawker and the changes that have come from that more than anything else.

But there are some really good writers there. Owen Good is one of the ones I really enjoy reading, there really aren't a lot of video game writer who would even consider sports video games worth talking about let alone covering the way he does. He does a lot of great pieces and gets actual scoops in a field that really 99% of video game writers could not give a shit about in the slightest.

Patricia Hernandez is truly awful though.

 

[michaelius]

If i wanted to make a new definition for shity journalism it would be single word "Kotaku"
which is sad as they used to be quite funny blog with a lot of interesting stuff from Japan.

 

[AppleMIX]

I'm shocked Kotaku isn't a banned website.

 

[GQman2121]

I think they're bosses, have bosses, who have bosses and demand content on the regular. So they write about what they see and hear daily. If tits are the topic on Twitter, or here on GAF, expect someone to pickup on that and start putting ideas together.

They're just trying to eat and remain relevant. It's not like they have people with personalities that they can put into videos or on podcasts who can keep eyes on their site. It's a competitive field they're playing on. Some times you have to lower the bar. That's all they're doing. And as Pachter put it: people click that shit.

 

[Parakeetman]

I think Totilo is a pretty solid writer, I've been reading his stuff all the way back to his MTV days but he is a pretty lousy editor in chief, I'm hard pressed to think of positive changes hes brought about on any level. Kotaku has really dropped off since Crecente left but honestly that has a lot more to do with Gawker and the changes that have come from that more than anything else.

But there are some really good writers there. Owen Good is one of the ones I really enjoy reading, there really aren't a lot of video game writer who would even consider sports video games worth talking about let alone covering the way he does. He does a lot of great pieces and gets actual scoops in a field that really 99% of video game writers could not give a shit about in the slightest.

Patricia Hernandez is truly awful though.

Crecente was as big a part of the problem as Gawker, why? He let things go on a downward spiral.

If i wanted to make a new definition for shity journalism it would be single word "Kotaku"
which is sad as they used to be quite funny blog with a lot of interesting stuff from Japan.

If you mean by interesting LOL TENTACLES, PANTY MACHINES, TITTY PUDDING, STREET FLASHERS IN AKIBA etc, then suddenly wagging the finger at all of those who think that Japan is the land of weird fetishes and sexual depravity then you got the Kotaku seal of approval right. Or should I say Ashcraft seal of approval.

 

[UrbanRats]

Aside from what you think of the whole article, i think this line:

However, Kotaku is using a real-life issue - gender inequality - and abusing it so that they can make Gawker a few extra bucks.

Is the problem i have with the trash articles from Kotaku on the subject.
It's one thing to post shit about GlaDos at the Olympics to get some cheap clicks, but when you shitpost about more serious issues, you're creating astroturfing and belittling the problem in the eyes of people.

 

[Soyongdori]

Don't like kotaku. Sometimes they concentrate on some random bullshits that has nothing to do with gaming and some of their articles regarding china seems to be overly ignorant. That's what happens when they hire bunch of ignorant college drop outs as their "journalists".

 

[Mr. F]

I feel like Kotaku is a site you stop visiting after finding better things to read or graduating high school (whichever comes first).