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VR Let's Talk PC VR

Dontero

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And yet Rift has sold a ton of hand controllers and new kits that have hand controllers. Where do you base VR users not wanting them?
Because PC VR sells like shit. For kit that is supposed to transfer you inside game it sells like some indie game.
Meanwhile PSVR with only like few games at start (which included RE7) sold MILIONS of units mostly because people wanted to play some real games like Driveclub VR or RE7 not some accounting+. Those PSVR sales died down when real games started to completely ignore VR.

Without PC sim racing community sales of headsets would plummet to even lesser degree. At least PC sim racing community knows how to use VR for real games.

VR right now is in mobile sphere of games. Shitload of shovelware experiments that go nowhere because for people motion controls aren't gameplay, gameplay is gameplay.
 
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Dontero

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Abzu is another amazing VR game. You don't need any motion controls for games to be amazing in VR and it is best example of that. I could see easily Journey with VR.
 
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Al3x1s

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So once again you pretend to reply by just ignoring all the points completely dismantling pretty much all of your previous arguments just to repeat the same vague bullshit all over again and add some more on top for the new page. Why even quote me at that point? You're just trolling.

PC VR has sold millions too, what are you even talking about any more?

Why didn't Oculus sell so much more/faster before they introduced the hand controllers if the cause for what you personally deem unworthy sales is the hand tracking (yet more companies keep jumping in for a piece of the unworthy pie, with hand tracking, Sony included as PSVR does have clumsy hand tracking that doesn't hold a candle to PC VR yet people still jump in and make it the success it is, so you pretend it doesn't exist, or as if Move and Aim aren't used by a considerable percentage of PSVR owners, as if Move hasn't shipped over 15 million units by itself)? Why did Vive which offered hand tracking and room scale as the biggest benefits of its tracking base stations also reach similar enough to Oculus sales (going by Steam survey stats) which didn't have hand tracking rather than show some overwhelming majority preference of the gaming market against such and cause both companies to rethink this approach rather than double down on it? What of Pimax which has yet to offer controllers (but has started work on its own Index-like controllers but still sells stand alone HMD models for the time being, which most people use with Vive wands, lol), how come they don't sell more than all the others combined but are just a blip in the premium ocean, more niche than all other big names, when they offer exactly what you think the market really wants, a high resolution HMD for camera movement? Why didn't WMR take the world by storm when its only real down side was the lacking room scale and tracking of the controllers, making for some very cheap yet high quality HMD kits for camera movement if that's all the people really wanted anyway as that would make pretty much all their drawbacks irrelevant? How come Rift owners have almost all purchased Touch controllers by now, leading Oculus 1st party titles to not support normal gamepads years now, opting for full hand tracked gameplay?

Why didn't Bethesda do Skyrim VR and Fallout 4 VR without hand tracking if all it takes is camera movement headtracking support to make something so amazing? Why didn't No Man's Sky do that? You even used Fallout 4 as part of your arguments when it offers hand tracking and works against your own bullshit, lol. If people ask for what you claim is best, why haven't they and every other publisher just ported all their games to VR with minimum effort without changing the gameplay to utilize the hand tracking controllers as they did in Skyrim and 4 for a quick and according to you big cash in? Why did games that do that, like Subnautica and Resident Evil VII, opted to not have any VR support for the next games in the series, showing the amount of VR users wasn't that worthwhile to them in the end, so users didn't embrace that hand-less approach after all as it didn't spark a crazy success spiral that would show the world that's what VR users want, non-VR games with just headtracking?

Etc.

With vorpx, VR is exactly what you want. Old and new games, GTA, COD, Witcher, in VR, with headtracking, no "shitty" hand tracking or whatever you feel is shoved in VR iterations like Medal of Honor and Sniper Elite VR. So VR offers exactly what you claim is best, to a much larger degree than it offers what I and other users consider best (as VR-only games are a newer invention so obviously there are way less of them than there are non VR games you can play with vorpx, and even less AAA games) yet it doesn't sell more causing you to claim it's the hand tracking's fault. Contradicting.
 
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Wonko_C

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Till today the best game for VR which sold the most units is RE7 and this helped to move millions of PSVRs not some beat saber or other garbage wave stuff.
Resident Evil 7 sold very but only around 700,000 played it in VR if we go by re.net stats. Beat Saber on the other hand already surpassed a million copies sold and is considered one of the best selling VR games (if not the best selling).
 
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Keihart

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Till today the best game for VR which sold the most units is RE7 and this helped to move millions of PSVRs not some beat saber or other garbage wave stuff.
Really? maybe RE7 sold a ton because is a good game and not a good VR implementation? like, do you even have numbers of how many of the people that played RE7 did it in VR?
I mean, VR without motion tracking is kinda alright if you can have it in some games, but VR with motion tracking is game changing for most people that try it.

Honest question, since you keep throwing shade so vigorously to motion tracked VR, have you played any high production games? Like Rift exclusives?
Robo Recall, Lone Echo and Wilson's Heart are no indie games in any measure.
Onward is probably on of the best MP shooter games i've played ever even when that really is an indie game but made as advanced as possible right now.

Maybe this games are just not for you and you are projecting, i mean, i don't think that Fallout 4, VR or not, is any indication of a quality game in my books but you seem to hold it in a very high pedestal.

RE7 is a very good game, but without motion tracking it felt very pointless to play it in VR to me after a couple of hours.
 
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Herr Edgy

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I still kinda want to buy an Index but at the same time the price tag puts me off, and if I'm going to do VR, it's going to be the Index.

Been watching many VRChat videos recently and it seems like a really fun experience just to let go, relax, and meet new people. It's pretty much what I've been missing from gaming the last ~7 years: the sense of community. Recent MMORPGs don't support good community building either because the power fantasy enables too much independence from other players.

At the same time I feel like the Index is what first gen VR should have been and therefore it's still in its infancy with all the first gen problems that come along.
If I knew there was a revamped Index coming out in a year or so or a price drop, I'd have no problem waiting, but it's hard to gauge when exactly new hardware will be made especially since the Index is still so young, too.
 

Sycomunkee

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I still kinda want to buy an Index but at the same time the price tag puts me off, and if I'm going to do VR, it's going to be the Index.

Been watching many VRChat videos recently and it seems like a really fun experience just to let go, relax, and meet new people. It's pretty much what I've been missing from gaming the last ~7 years: the sense of community. Recent MMORPGs don't support good community building either because the power fantasy enables too much independence from other players.

At the same time I feel like the Index is what first gen VR should have been and therefore it's still in its infancy with all the first gen problems that come along.
If I knew there was a revamped Index coming out in a year or so or a price drop, I'd have no problem waiting, but it's hard to gauge when exactly new hardware will be made especially since the Index is still so young, too.
How do you get to point B if you haven’t gotten to point A? The index is the answer to a lot of situations that were created with Gen 1 VR. I’m sure the Index 2 will even go further seeing how technology improves every year.
 
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Al3x1s

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OC6 stuff are all on the previous page, lots more interesting things than just that too.

Worth discussing that the additional cameras of the S and its 80hz rate vs Quest's 72hz may still make it a better PC VR set. But if you have or want a Quest and untethered VR options (though most Quest games also come to PC) it's definitely a cool thing on top.

I'm really curious why Oculus went for the downgrade in hz from the original set after developers being adamant you need 90hz as minimum for VR presence/natural feel without sickness but it seems most people don't mind after all so whatever works I guess.
I still kinda want to buy an Index but at the same time the price tag puts me off, and if I'm going to do VR, it's going to be the Index. At the same time I feel like the Index is what first gen VR should have been and therefore it's still in its infancy with all the first gen problems that come along.
I'm sticking with my original Rift 3-tracker set up until Index-like stuff get way cheaper (and I upgrade my PC first too, it can't exactly drive some upcoming dual 4K or 8K Pimax HMD resolution as it is, especially not in the high production value games we see being developed these days compared to the indie free for all it's been). I don't see playability harmed with controllers that don't have all that tech anyway (outside specific tech demos like Aperture Hand Lab). Not jumping in VR because you feel the tech is not there without having tried it is like not getting into gaming before GTX3080ti comes out or something.

In my opinion Oculus got the controller design near perfect on their first go. It offered all the same 1:1 tracking quality with all the traditional controller inputs you expect to have on top giving developers more options to make controls intuitive and natural in ways Vive's wands couldn't offer.

Vive Focus/Cosmos copy that same design. Index also fixes the wand issues of lacking inputs and tries to do more premium stuff on top that don't necessarily add too much to normal gameplay, especially when developers wish for their games to be fully playable by other sets. Even Index poster child Boneworks.

I recommend trying an Oculus Rift (not with some potentially shoddy game chosen by others though, try the Touch Basics & First Contact tutorials - that's a must, you're a gamer but it's something you need to train for, like someone touching a controller for the first time - then known to be well made, polished titles like Lone Echo and Beat Saber before moving on to more intense stuff that require more movement like Contractors/Onward, it can be overwhelming at first if you don't get used to the basics and see what locomotion and turning options are most natural for you) as an affordable option that may convince you VR is already great and it's up to the software to utilize it properly rather than hardware deficiencies that need fixing by later iterations and new technology advancements. As welcome as those are, like 4K/HDR, users don't need to adopt them day 1 to enjoy gaming.
 
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scalman

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they said that new Quest incoming too so there all will be upgraded to new standards i guess.
 

Herr Edgy

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How do you get to point B if you haven’t gotten to point A? The index is the answer to a lot of situations that were created with Gen 1 VR. I’m sure the Index 2 will even go further seeing how technology improves every year.
I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying that I'm unsure about spending about 1100€ on tech that might be largely invalidated in a year or two. If it's primarily performance increases or some gimmicky advances like we see with phones I wouldn't mind, but if in a year or two a wireless Index gets released, controllers improved etc. then spending that sum of money is absolutely something worth a think or two.

Al3x1s Al3x1s
I've played with a friend's Vive with the wands and developed a bit for it too, for me it's really just about the price vs. the possible near-future advances.
I know that I like VR a lot, I believe it's an important step for the future of gaming: I'm just wondering about this point in time.
 

Al3x1s

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I'm not saying it's bad, I'm saying that I'm unsure about spending about 1100€ on tech that might be largely invalidated in a year or two. If it's primarily performance increases or some gimmicky advances like we see with phones I wouldn't mind, but if in a year or two a wireless Index gets released, controllers improved etc. then spending that sum of money is absolutely something worth a think or two.

Al3x1s Al3x1s
I've played with a friend's Vive with the wands and developed a bit for it too, for me it's really just about the price vs. the possible near-future advances.
I know that I like VR a lot, I believe it's an important step for the future of gaming: I'm just wondering about this point in time.
Well I already agreed the original Vive wands had deficiencies in terms of inputs and showed you those example videos discussing it (there's even a bit about how compatible Index and Touch layouts are and articles like this) but Vive owners can upgrade to Index controllers rather than purchase an all new set.

(I also disagree with the guy saying we need to unnaturally train our fingers/tendons for Touch's layout compared to Index's since that's how we've learned to hold normal controllers for like two decades, with middle finger triggers and index finger triggers while holding on with the rest hand)

With the wands developers had to program weird toggle grip functions with buttons that had more than one function and such while with Touch you have a dedicated middle finger trigger for such basic common actions, more buttons and the familiar sticks rather than trackpads for all the other inputs on top.

I wouldn't recommend to anyone to buy an original Vive kit these days. At best mix and match a Vive HMD with Index controllers and base stations or something but I'm not sure that would save much money compared to buying a whole Index kit for someone who doesn't already own some Vive stuff.

All other VR controllers got the input layouts better right out the gate in my opinion as they all more or less followed the Oculus Touch design in that aspect, just like HTC's own upcoming Vive models do (further showing Touch is future proofed when upcoming new products still have such compatible design).

If cost is an issue Oculus products are way more affordable as they've mostly always been compared to Vive and now Index. Of course it's worth a think but I've already had the Rift for a year and I don't intend to upgrade any time soon even with Index level stuff in the game now. VR is great as it is.

Just as I still have a 1440p monitor rather than a 4K one, I use a normal membrane gaming keyboard rather than a mechanical, I'm happy with mice of modest dpi and a couple thumb buttons rather than a truckload of extras, I use a normal DualShock4 without paddle stuff and I'm sticking with my GTX1080 for a long while more.

Some of the coming techs are only going to add to the cost as they need additional hardware, like eye tracking or how the Index controllers cost like 300 on their own to include all the finger touch sensing tech when Oculus Touch cost a third of that.

So I don't think it's gonna be an easy sell compared to getting stuff without eye tracking and such. I mean, HTC has had eye tracking in a premium model but their upcoming flasgship products don't include it, they're basically just like Rift S and Quest with a twist or two, not upgrades but solid newcomer oriented products.

Anyway, you do you, if you decide to wait or not. Back to just checking out software and games for me.
 
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Romulus

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RE7 is a very good game, but without motion tracking it felt very pointless to play it in VR to me after a couple of hours.
I agree that motion controls can be incredible for most titles, but there was something just very cool about playing RE7 in VR with a playstation controller. It felt right at home with the franchise and genre, and still remains my #1 vr game if all time, and I've played a lot of them. I can't even play RE7 without vr if feels like such a soulless experience.
 
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Thaedolus

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I agree that motion controls can be incredible for most titles, but there was something just very cool about playing RE7 in VR with a playstation controller. It felt right at home with the franchise and genre, and still remains my #1 vr game if all time, and I've played a lot of them. I can't even play RE7 without vr if feels like such a soulless experience.
This is why I'm still waiting to finish it....I reeeeaaallly want a PC port somehow, that's not a fanmade hack or whatever.
 

Al3x1s

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So there were actually a few more Oculus Connect 6 talks they hadn't uploaded yet.

Again see the rest and the keynotes in previous posts or the Oculus channel. There are like 40 videos total (some duplicates as they were in the keynotes too, like the Medal of Honor/Link/whatever "trailers"). Some great insights for devs and users alike and XR in general, not just Oculus.
 
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Al3x1s

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Also this is coming.
The Exorcist: Legion VR is back as a Deluxe Complete Series with enhanced graphics & animations, upgraded movement controls, Index controller support, and Rift S optimization. Just keep telling yourself "it's only VR".
I do hope they don't screw over existing owners without a free upgrade or super-deep discount, this is patch material that they should hype (with a focus on the bundle by the pricing if they feel people didn't play all episodes) instead for extra/renewed publicity and more sales...

I can't tell much of a difference but every little tweak and bit of polish helps with VR. I was actually about to get the game after reading that it improves on every aspect of A Chair in a Room which I played and found promising but not quite there (I can be picky with VR feel/controls).
 
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brohmbel

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Anybody here using a recent hi-res headset, on a GTX 1070 or thereabouts? How's the image quality / framerate? I'm considering the Vive Cosmos, but the idea of my 1070 powering two 1440x1700 screens at 90 fps seems like ... kind of a reach. Even if the 1070 is HTC's "recommended" GPU for the Cosmos.
 
Anybody here using a recent hi-res headset, on a GTX 1070 or thereabouts? How's the image quality / framerate? I'm considering the Vive Cosmos, but the idea of my 1070 powering two 1440x1700 screens at 90 fps seems like ... kind of a reach. Even if the 1070 is HTC's "recommended" GPU for the Cosmos.
Lots will come down to the software you're running. I still have only a 980 gtx and I still haven't said "welp it's time to upgrade because X game doesn't run well". Most of the time the games that drop frames or have questionable performance are simply poorly optimized. Keep in mind that I'm still running a cv1.
I would be surprised if the 1070 wasn't just fine for pretty much everything you throw at it
 
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Knch

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Anybody here using a recent hi-res headset, on a GTX 1070 or thereabouts? How's the image quality / framerate? I'm considering the Vive Cosmos, but the idea of my 1070 powering two 1440x1700 screens at 90 fps seems like ... kind of a reach. Even if the 1070 is HTC's "recommended" GPU for the Cosmos.
Running a Valve Index on a lightly OC-ed launch 1080, everything is smooth as butter.
 
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Al3x1s

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So that Walking Dead VR game finally has a name/official announcement and some new media (crappy non gameplay trailer ahoy).

It has looked pretty rough in the extended hands on videos that came out previously but hopefully they can pull off something decent.

Edit: brain fart, this is a different Walking Dead VR game, the other being developed by Survios (and already had a name, Onslaught)!
 
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Al3x1s

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Ok that new Walking Dead game is looking pretty decent after all. Hope it delivers!

Some more Quest/Link stuff, mainly because it shows some more Stormland gameplay. Can't wait for that. Wish it released before Asgard's Wrath.
 

Al3x1s

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I never liked AS myself, I don't get the hype at all, it's somehow become a VR staple but to me it's just janky and uninteresting. I hope one of the other upcoming zombie games obliterates it in quality (if not in popularity) so I can enjoy it at least. But yeah, there you go fans, more AS!
 
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Knch

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I never liked AS myself, I don't get the hype at all, it's somehow become a VR staple but to me it's just janky and uninteresting. I hope one of the other upcoming zombie games obliterates it in quality (if not in popularity) so I can enjoy it at least. But yeah, there you go fans, more AS!
It looks decent, but that's about it...


It seems like Vive should have stuck with the lighthouse tracking... (at least I can feel good about spending money on my index)
 
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Al3x1s

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Also, missed this nugget in the new Oculus software update yesterday.
We added a new toggle for automatically launching Home. Switching this setting off will stop Home from auto-launching in scenarios like jumping into VR and exiting out of apps. You can find this option within the Settings > General menu inside Oculus desktop app.
No more forced loading of Home, yay.
 
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Al3x1s

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Missed this Echo VR/Arena patch which adds stuff like AI opponents too (AI actually looks good, the games are pretty complex so that's cool!). But it doesn't appear to be live on my end yet.

All the Echo games, starting with Lone Echo, have some of the best locomotion in VR and sweet production values/polish. Echo VR is still free (sans the Arena DLC so only the sporty tron 6dof disc handball thing, the FPSy mode with weapons etc is a cheap paid DLC)!
 
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Al3x1s

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This continues to look so good.

And a couple more Oculus Connect 6 stuff they had yet to upload:


And a patch for Humans 101! I've yet to try this but it seems kinda cute and the pitiful amount of reviews is positive.

I have no idea what to expect from the gameplay part and the user creation component anyway.

And a Steam VR patch incoming (beta atm) that hopefully fixes annoying things like audio not getting routed to the HMD when you wanna play in VR or get back to the speakers when you quit regardless of the settings.
 
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Stitch

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it was pretty annoying how often steamvr forgot my sound settings. easy to fix with advanced settings but good that it is now officially fixed.


Cartoon Network released a free experience which looks interesting :D


 
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gifgaf

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It looks a bit stuttery to me in this review...
I personally would rather not give Facebook my money and not sure how well it would work on an Index.



Looks smooth enough in this review. I hear you need to update the Nvidia drivers to get the best out of it though.
 

Al3x1s

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Surprised to not see a post talking about Asgard's Wrath's (Asgard Wrath's?) early release today, the Oculus subreddit is going gaga for this game, hope its good.
I've been having a hard time at work, with a minor motorcycle accident causing a foot injury and now a(nother, after 20 yrs) pilonidal cyst (possibly cos of all the sitting/laying after the accident), pretty shit period for me and haven't been able to check news/play VR (or anything) much :(

I'm more looking forward to Stormland, better track record from the dev and I feel it will be meatier and less reliant on just being in VR.

But I'll try Asgard's Wrath at some point.



Some of this makes it sound like a higher production values Journey of the Gods. The whole one-way-trips deal. It was cool but not omgthebest! It might not do to get hyped then after VR enthusiasm wears off see there's not too much to it. Journey of the Gods felt modest and it served that well.
 
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gifgaf

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I've been having a hard time at work, with a minor motorcycle accident causing a foot injury and now a(nother, after 20 yrs) pilonidal cyst (possibly cos of all the sitting/laying after the accident), pretty shit period for me and haven't been able to check news/play VR (or anything) much :(
Ahh that sucks. Hope you get better soon.
 
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Al3x1s

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10 more OC6 talks uploaded to the Oculus Channel (you can tell which from the thumbnails being the topics).

And there was also this time limited location-VR RE7 experience announced by Capcom.

And this DLC teaser for VR 5 Nights @ Freddy's.
 
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Al3x1s

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Not a new video but this guy's doing tremendous work. Been following him since his non-VR 3D platform tubby cat game but somehow missed all this.

Also.
 
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Al3x1s

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This could be good too, coming soon, saw some new tweets by the dev.

Another thing in the "keep talking and nobody explodes" mould, neat stuff but I'll probably never get to play such things myself.
 
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gifgaf

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This could be good too, coming soon, saw some new tweets by the dev.

Another thing in the "keep talking and nobody explodes" mould, neat stuff but I'll probably never get to play such things myself.
I enjoyed Keep Talking and I am definitely interested in Team Switch but £865 funding goal seems a very small amount to fund a game that will take over a year to complete?
 
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Al3x1s

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The video mentions they'll use the money to buy more VR kits to be able to test the game or something along those lines. I didn't watch it too carefully to know if it mentions what they already have and what they plan to buy. But that amount is probably enough for a Rift or Rift S and a WMR kit if they already have a Vive or Index. Or alternatively they might have the former and need an Index. or they hope to exceed it so they buy more kits. I dunno. But clearly the goal isn't to earn/pay a good monthly wage from the funding alone while only working on the game. Edit:
Guys from Virtual Studios require your help to conclude this project. Game is 40% developed, but the final steps to ascend are more difficult them. They need more equipment to ensure maximum compatibility of game with all headsets VR on the market. With your help, they'll also be able to enhance the game, creating more crazy gadgets and more surprising objects to steal, as well as more quality ambient music.
 
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gifgaf

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The video mentions they'll use the money to buy more VR kits to be able to test the game or something along those lines. I didn't watch it too carefully to know if it mentions what they already have and what they plan to buy. But that amount is probably enough for a Rift or Rift S and a WMR kit if they already have a Vive or Index. Or alternatively they might have the former and need an Index. or they hope to exceed it so they buy more kits. I dunno. But clearly the goal isn't to earn/pay a good monthly wage from the funding alone while only working on the game. Edit:
Good point, I should read more.
 

Al3x1s

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Don't like streamers like that who overact and yap but damn if the game doesn't already look great and polished before the damn Kickstarter is even over.

Good to know all the promo stuff weren't faked but mostly already functional and implemented. This is one to get hyped for me thinks, so much goodness.
 
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