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Leveling up and filling stats bars (STR, INT, AGI, etc) is obsolete game design. Change my mind.

Griffon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
778
1,066
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Depends on the games really. Sometimes stats work, sometimes it doesn't.
 

T4rz4

Neo Member
Aug 2, 2013
22
10
440
You can make it hidden, that would be a more organic view for a character development perspective. But players will try to learn/abuse the system anyways.
 

Nico_D

Member
Aug 9, 2013
1,255
450
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Finland
Honestly, I felt like Hades is exactly that. You upgrade the weapons and raise the efficiency of your skills in the mirror.

It is fine, I don't mind.

Sure, it would be nice if I pick STR that the muscles on my character grew bigger etc.
 

billyxci

13 year old console warrior. Put me on ignore.
Aug 3, 2014
13,814
8,714
970
if that's what you think then it's fine. there is no need to change your mind.

i love stats and leveling up.
 

supernova8

Member
Jun 2, 2020
1,824
2,539
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Levelling up and filling bars is only annoying for games where there's no other change to your character. That's why I enjoy MMOs because in the vast majority of cases you can physically upgrade your armour and weapons, and what you can upgrade to depends on your level but also on how much you worked to get it. That's why there was always that wow factor of seeing people in Stormwind etc with super rare gear (watching them in my bronze chestplate).

If everyone looked the same but the numbers were different, yeah that would be lame.

So yeah I'm not against level/exp bars at all. I actually like it. It gives you something to work towards. It's the reason I have level-up style "gamifaction" addons for Anki when I learn stuff. Makes studying bearable for me.
 
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Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
7,259
2,611
1,005
United Kingdom
I disagree with the premise, because I have never wanted change. Since the beginning of variety in games there have been numbers behind them, whether it's health bars or upgrades.

Numbers quantify the intangible, and when you are controlling characters that isn't you the human how do you convey their dexterity, constitution or charisma in a way that is relevant to the game/player? Even if you find a way to hide the formulae, people will re-quantify anything in any given game. Zelda OoT doesn't give you numbers, but you can find the health or strength of ay enemy or weapon online because people want that information.

Variety is the spice of life, and games follow the rule even moreso. There's room for stats and room for alternatives, because they're all justifiable if they're done well.

To give any example, RE2 has limited weapons. It keeps it simple and has clear differences between each upgrade to convey the change. The magnum and shotgun both get different sounds and massive kickback. RE4 has 5 handguns alone, and they all use the same ammo. How do you convey the differences between them before the player spends money on a weapon and tries it? Numbers are a necessity of that approach. Both of these games are top tier, and neither are wrong.

You could say that's not relevant to RPGs and Hades (haven't played), but the same rule still applies.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Mar 18, 2012
14,977
401
885
Stat tables are half of the fun. What gear you are shown wearing becomes pointless the more games that allow you to customize your look to be more fashionable or pretty giving no indication of how strong you are.

I rather enjoy stats and set bonuses since rather it be Gacha, MMO, Tabletop or RPG I like maximizing the defensive stats more then anything.

I like seeing people taking a class/role meant for damage or healing and see them make them into the tankiest mofo on the planet.

But in general the customization of your stats allows for a variety of different builds whether they are creative, optimal, suboptimal or fit niche situations.

For EXP bars I like knowing how far away I am from reaching that next level.
 

j0hnnix

Member
Mar 15, 2014
3,624
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865
Popeyes chicken
Look at it this way. One of the best things concerning stats in any rpg is the plethora of builds players can create to suit their style, I understand that it shouldn't be stats only, so I see your point, somewhat. Take Nioh for instance you have stats and additional trees to enhance your character in the way you play plus from those trees - Ninjatsu / Onmyo greater enhance that play style. It feels good for the player to be free to choose their path instead of the developer choosing that for you.

*I'm stuck looking at the damn Nioh 2 stat screen right now after a resurrection trying to change how I originally started playing. fml.
 
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DaleinCalgary

Member
Feb 9, 2014
2,097
2,060
695
No way, leveling stats so you get better is awesome. Next you are going to say you want swords and weapons that break all the time...
 

ripeavocado

Member
Jul 26, 2020
546
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Excel driven game design sucks.


Stats and bars give you cheap satisfaction in a similar but lesser way than loot boxes.

Some people are unable to get tired of it, this is why clicker games exist.
it’s usually people that have nothing better to do in their lives so even something like this is exciting.
 

Represent.

Member
Jun 22, 2010
3,205
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1,010
Agreed 100%
The responses in here make me sad. This medium will never evolve. Gamers are too stuck in their ways :messenger_weary:
 

Bogey

Banned
May 4, 2014
510
621
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Nah, I like stats.

They're a method to give frequent, albeit small rewards to the player.
That doesn't work as well with other means - your character can look like a farmer, or like a badass, but you won't be able to design 100 armors in between with clearly distinguishable distinct levels of badass-ness. Same goes for abilities.
Plus, those are much more expensive to design or develop, hence you'll always have a limited quantity of those at your disposal.
Allowing players to level up some stat from 1 to 1000 though? Really easy.

Also, often specific abilities and such are locked behind stats requirements - so stats are almost like a currency that transparently lets you work towards medium and long term goals.
 
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GermanZepp

Member
Feb 15, 2017
1,235
1,812
585
RPG logic: if you beat enough rats you will eventually be strong enough to kill a dragon!

Real life: LOL

I get what you are saying. But if that situation plays out in a balanced game you would have to kill hundred of thousands of rats. After a short level up from your character, rat's xp would be meaningless for you. While technically possible highly unlikely. Of course often than not there are lots of exploits for xp.