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Lichtspeer devs: Nintendo working on Switch achievement system

Gotdatmoney

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May 5, 2014
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Uh, maybe read the article/thread he linked in the very next sentence. You know, the one just before you cut off the quote. It breaks down in detail why achievements have a clear negative influence on game design.

I did. The article was horse shit lol.

The entirety of the argument is A) yoyr gratification for doing cool thing is limited cause you see everyone else did it and B) they are mostly meaningless extras added. All of this is allieviated by turning them off :/

The only shitty achievements are online achievements because others have to deal with you doing them. Otherwise. Meh.
 

Quonny

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Aug 15, 2015
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Are you advocating they do the lamest thing possible when it comes to achievements just for the sake of saying they have achievements? Rewarding mundane things that are expected of the player is the absolute worst thing to do when it comes to achievements.
I'm saying that people claiming system level achievements are limiting an in game achievement system or creative rewards are off their rocker.

Bad achievements are bad, but to say 'because of achievements in game rewards are bad' is asinine.
 

KtSlime

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I'm saying that people claiming system level achievements are limiting an in game achievement system or creative rewards are off their rocker.

Bad achievements are bad, but to say 'because of achievements in game rewards are bad' is asinine.

There is another option, provide an achievement system but make it completely optional for the developers to implement. That is way better than players getting rewarded for doing nothing.
 

Gotdatmoney

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There is another option, provide an achievement system but make it completely optional for the developers to implement. That is way better than players getting rewarded for doing nothing.

Why do you care if people get rewarded for doing nothing?
 

Quonny

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Aug 15, 2015
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There is another option, provide an achievement system but make it completely optional for the developers to implement. That is way better than getting rewarded for doing nothing.
Why would a developer not want achievements on a system where it's an option?

They generate sales. They show up in friends lists. If they have interesting achievements they show up on YouTube or achievement specific sites.

It's basically free advertising and an extra bonus for people who like the system. And if they don't? They will more than likely have the option to hide it.
 

KtSlime

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This is totally asinine.

I'm just saying it should be a completely optional thing. If developers think that it is good they can implement it, otherwise they don't. Are you saying that players and developers should be forced to use a system they don't like just the appease those who do?
 

Gotdatmoney

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I care about when I get rewarded for doing nothing, it makes me feel icky. "You killed your first enemy, 20points get!" Does getting rewards like that make you feel proud or something?

So "you" turn them off. Again. Why do you care if "other" people enjoy it?
 

KtSlime

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So "you" turn them off. Again. Why do you care if "other" people enjoy it?

If they can be completely turned off so that it doesn't even record them, nor does it bother me with my friends achievements that could be acceptable.

And once again, it needs to be up to the developers choice to implement. I may be wrong, but I have read that Sony does not accept games from developed that do not implement them. That would be a stupid policy and hopefully Nintendo never does that.
 

Gotdatmoney

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If they can be completely turned off so that it doesn't even record them, nor does it bother me with my friends achievements that could be acceptable.

Why do you care if it's recorded if you aren't ever going to look. You can ignore this stuff on every platform I have ever used. This shit is just the weirdest mentality. Stuff you can totally ignore shouldnt exist at all because you dont like it.

And once again, it needs to be up to the developers choice to implement. I may be wrong, but I have read that Sony does not accept games from developed that do not implement them. That would be a stupid policy and hopefully Nintendo never does that.

If devs have to implement achievements its not a big deal. Yes it's more important to have a fully supported system across all games for people who like them than it is for devs to not spend the minimal time to implement them. Especially given the vast bulk of games that will be on the Switch will have been on other systems and will already have achievements in them.
 

Yukinari

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May 11, 2015
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The gamexplain discussion was right on the money in regards to games like Uncharted 2 where collecting useless trinkets is solely for trophies and disconnected from the experience wasting the players time.

Sometimes i feel bad for missing an easy trophy in a game and i might go back just to get it but it hasent happened a lot.
 

Gotdatmoney

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The gamexplain discussion was right on the money in regards to games like Uncharted 2 where collecting useless trinkets is solely for trophies and disconnected from the experience wasting the players time.

Sometimes i feel bad for missing an easy trophy in a game and i might go back just to get it but it hasent happened a lot.

The trophies in Uncharted started with the first game. And Uncharted 1 came out before trophies were a thing in the PS ecosystem. The treasure exists because ND is shitty at making good collectables and thought they were a good idea. The treasure was never about pointless trophies. The treasure doesnt add anything to the games though I agree.

Getting treasure in Uncharted always sucked ass. Compare it to something like Resident Evil 4 or Resident Evil 5 as an example of how to do collectables well.
 

SHAFT MASTER

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May 30, 2014
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"Nintendo's the only one doing them right"

in response to Nintendo doing them exactly the same as everyone else, only you have to use your microwave to compare scores

It'll be more like Nintendo is doing them but has implemented them in some really dumb way just like they did with friend codes and voice chat.

Can't wait to see how they fuck this up. Those threads are always good for a laugh.
 

Malyse

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If it's not just the My Nintendo Rewards, then I hope it's like the Challenges in Smash Bros



Either way would be cool, as both entail some sort of in game unlock to go with the achievement.
 

Aizo

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Apr 21, 2013
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Congratulations.

This is probably more so for 3rd parties, not so much for 1st party games.
I don't like something that you do. No need to be an ass.
If it's not just the My Nintendo Rewards, then I hope it's like the Challenges in Smash Bros



Either way would be cool, as both entail some sort of in game unlock to go with the achievement.
This would be excellent.
 

Brock Reiher

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Mar 31, 2017
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If this is true and they look good I'd buy so many more games on Switch. I regretted Sonic Mania after hearing about some of the cool trophies it had and I probably won't buy many more multiplat games on it.

I'm pessimistic though and if it is real it'll probably be some lame "play for X hours and receive 10 My Nintendo Gold Points" kinda thing. That would be worse than nothing at all.
 

Peltz

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Apr 26, 2014
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Personally, I don't want achievements because it will force Nintendo\3rd parties making Switch games to waste time\resources with them. I also think that achievements have, for the most part, a negative influence on game design (NO, this doesn't mean that games have become crap.)
See this good article that was posted a while ago, for example, but there are a lot more around the internet.

It's as simple as that, there is no need to assume that people who don't like them are "just dumb".
So for the same reason, I'd be disappointed if Nintendo is wasting time and resources for a "centralized" achievement system.

I do agree with the article. But a developer can still tweak/motivate the player within the constraints of an obligatory achievement system. And players can also choose to ignore those achievements.

So yea, achievements do create some bad design/gameplay incentives, but they aren't going to ruin an entire generation or platform worth of games. Any skilled developer will make them work properly in a way that fits their objective.
 
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The trophies in Uncharted started with the first game. And Uncharted 1 came out before trophies were a thing in the PS ecosystem. .

True, but they were just using it as an example of the types of pointless collectibles that games have primarily for achievement purpose--there's tons of other examples
 

Gotdatmoney

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True, but they were just using it as an example of the types of pointless collectibles that games have primarily for achievement purpose--there's tons of other examples

My counterpoint is those things exist because developers just wanted them there regardless. They can always do completion achievements or other arbitrary ones. Kill 100 guys with the AK-47 (or w/e the fuck the actual number is) has always been a shitty achievement in Uncharted games for example. If devs want pointless achievements it's rather easy.

A lot of yall are acting like collectathons started with achievements.
 

Shiggy

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If they can be completely turned off so that it doesn't even record them, nor does it bother me with my friends achievements that could be acceptable.

And once again, it needs to be up to the developers choice to implement. I may be wrong, but I have read that Sony does not accept games from developed that do not implement them. That would be a stupid policy and hopefully Nintendo never does that.

Why does it bother you if the achievements are recorded but are just not shown to you? Genuinely interested.
 

atr0cious

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It'll be more like Nintendo is doing them but has implemented them in some really dumb way just like they did with friend codes and voice chat.

Can't wait to see how they fuck this up. Those threads are always good for a laugh.
Nintendo has been doing them, only on a game basis. So yes, they do have the best achievement system, by virtue of the fact that theirs is tied to unlockable rewards in the game. If they make an overlay for all the games, I'm sure it'll be like the 3ds badge arcade.
My counterpoint is those things exist because developers just wanted them there regardless. They can always do completion achievements or other arbitrary ones. Kill 100 guys with the AK-47 (or w/e the fuck the actual number is) has always been a shitty achievement in Uncharted games for example. If devs want pointless achievements it's rather easy.

A lot of yall are acting like collectathons started with achievements.
Collectathons had in game trophies and unlockable rewards, not an inane notification that pops up for doing stuff you were already doing.
 

KtSlime

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Why does it bother you if the achievements are recorded but are just not shown to you? Genuinely interested.

In addition to what I mentioned earlier, I don't really care for the whole social networking aspect of achievements either. Not only am I not interested in what other people's achievements are, but I don't want people looking at mine. I'm not into micromanaging either (have to use Facebook with work and it sucks, such a waste of time), so if there is a way to disable it all, one switch that never bothers me ever again, that would be best.
 

Gotdatmoney

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Collectathons had in game trophies and unlockable rewards, not an inane notification that pops up for doing stuff you were already doing.

And? How does that invalidate that some people enjoy achievements? It's like, you can have both of these things. If you domt like it just turn it off.
 

Joelstinton14

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Jan 27, 2016
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BotW is one of the games that would benefit the most from this.

Personally i think Breath of the Wild would suffer the most from having achievements.

Another poster on a different forum summed up my view (and others in this thread it seems) pretty succinctly:

On a wider scale, achievements in BotW would affect how thousands of people approach the game. The fact is, people do follow achievements and build their gameplay around it. Let a game speak for itself based purely on gameplay mechanics and the player's enjoyment of it. If BotW had achievements huge numbers of players would plot a course through the game to tick all those achievement boxes then probably ditch the game when they got the last one. I think that letting people just play the game and saying no more is a wonderful thing. I'm glad Nintendo realises how achievements affect the perception of their games due to funnelling of player direction.

I think Achievements suit certain games, but not others.

I'm not going to lie, I have enjoyed going for certain platinums (Especially dark souls and blood borne) , but not having trophies on the Switch has actually been quite refreshing. It has been nice to do things in game because i want to , and not feel coerced into doing something pretty arbitrary. The Breath of the Wild is all about exploration, and going on your own journey. Putting achievements in there just funnels players, and detracts from what the game is trying to do. It puts up unnecessary boundaries.

It is nice to make a conscious decisions to actually get all S ranks on Graceful explosion machine, or place first in every cup in Fast RMX because i actually want to, not because i have too. It has been nice to have no distractions or expectation of what the game wants of me from a trophy standpoint, i can just enjoy the game and explore its systems and game setting/world at my own pace.

Perhaps there should be a compromise, say only being available in new game + or make them unobtrusive , say receiving an exclusive theme from the e-shop for completing the game and leave it as that.
 

atr0cious

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And? How does that invalidate that some people enjoy achievements? It's like, you can have both of these things. If you domt like it just turn it off.
Why do you need it if it's so inconsequential that you can turn it off? Like, the achievements rarely do anything other than give you checklists you were going to do. Why can't that just be in the game? The achievement system as it is is nothing more than an extra bullet point xbox live needed to have some semblance of value that has grown to necessity as "gamers" have given it more importance than it deserves. If possible, I'd rather have Nintendo stick with their current program of integrating "achievements" into the game where they have a palpable affect, not just an inane list of things you did. That some "need" achievements to"enjoy" their game fully, says more about the detriment game design has had since achievements were introduced. If a game designer has to make an explicit out of game list of things for you to do to keep you "interested," the game has already failed.