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Lightning - "Why the hate?"

This is another thing I don't understand about GAF. What the fuck is the deal with the extremely massive hard-on for this game? Is it just the overhype about its long development? Irony?
For me...
Whompa, that's not what I meant. I wholeheartedly agree Versus is going to be a step in the right direction. I've said it before, but this game's "media" tickles my imagination ever since 2006, or at least ever since the 2008 JF trailer my avatar has been taken from. Represent to yourself the universal appeal Shadow of The Colossus generates, with people going on a speculative spree once they beat the game. That's how I feel with Versus, and it isn't even out yet.

I asked him because, as Kagari pointed out, he was saying both were as bad while they are radically on the other side of the spectrum to another... hence my question: what would be the alternative to those two? PSX-like FF? That's the direction Versus lies in, indeed.
 

KiN0

Member
Oct 12, 2012
1,426
0
0
"Affecting the perceived development" lol. Towns are a gimmick. You can do much better characters without the use of some static buildings.

Well, it's not so much the towns but the "people" in them. One of XIII's biggest problems for me was the fact that the story never addresses the way people are reacting to all the chaos.
 

ThinFinn

Member
Dec 9, 2011
209
0
0
It was really interesting to read through the thread and get an insight to everyone's opinions.

It's been awhile since i completed FF13 so my memory may be idealized, but here are my thoughts on the subject matter at hand:

1.) She didn't JUST lose her parents. It was a long time ago. Not only that but it was told in a short meaningless flashback. No foreshadowing. No development. Nada.

3.) She's not being overprotective of Serah. She just thinks Snow is stupid. Her caring for Serah is something she finds out in retrospect and comes out in the form of regret. This isn't to say that Lightning doesn't care. She does. However her rejection of Snow and Serah's relationship isn't based off of overprotection.

4.) This actually doesn't happen. Lightning splits away from Snow refusing to work with him altogether. It's only she realizes during her time AWAY from Snow that she begins to understand more and accepting of the situation. Snow's presence had nothing to do with this at all. This is also not a development because it's more of an epiphany at best. Completely out of nowhere and a plot point thrown in to make the story coherent. Not good.

1.) I think LuuKyK was trying to illustrate the basis of Lightning as a "hopeless character", as he puts it, through the lost of her parents. She may not have lost them recently, but it explains her cynicism at the beginning of the plot.

4.) Her character development wasn't present until her arc with Hope, where they help each other understand themselves better and further refine their ultimate motives.

While I do agree this epiphany was rather sudden, she was able to come to the conclusion of favoring hope over vengeance between the chaos of watching her sister crystallize, being cursed with the mark of the L'cie, exiled from cocoon after the events of the Purge and still continued to be hunted while in unfamiliar territory. This was also before she met fang and gained the knowledge that the process of crystallization was reversible, mind you. I don't know, but that seems like character growth to me. This is especially prevelant while comparing her behavior from point 1.

3.) The fact that she thinks Snow is dumb and the rejection of his and Serah's relationship points toward her being overprotective, no? She thinks Snow isn't good enough for Serah is what I infer from the situation.

I do see where you are coming from though, as some of her actions are not justified. The fit she threw when Serah revealed her L'cie mark is contradictory to the point I'm trying to make. As an elder brother, I can relate to her wanting to protect a younger sibling, but I do not understand her rationalization in this scenario.

While reading through wiki to recall some details, I can see how some character motivations are nonsensical and melodramatic. Coupled with some of the responses within this thread, I start to question what exactly is it I like about Lightning. I may have to replay the game someday to find out.

But for now...

I can imagine liking her if you spend most of your time looking at her art and listening to the soundtrack and fantasizing about what she could represent... but in game, she is cardboard. A series of pretentious monologues that mean far less than you probably think.

I think this explains it really well. The soundtrack was really the highlight of FF13.
 

LuuKyK

Member
Mar 18, 2012
13,914
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Brazil
It was really interesting to read through the thread and get an insight to everyone's opinions.

It's been awhile since i completed FF13 so my memory may be idealized, but here are my thoughts on the subject matter at hand:



1.) I think what LuuKyK was trying to illustrate the basis of Lightning as a "hopeless character", as he puts it, through the lost of her parents. She may not have lost them recently, but it explains her cynicism at the beginning of the plot.

4.) Her character development wasn't present until her arc with Hope, where they help each other understand themselves better and further refine their ultimate motives.

While I do agree this epiphany was rather sudden, she was able to come to the conclusion of favoring hope over vengeance between the chaos of watching her sister crystallize, being cursed with the mark of the L'cie, exiled from cocoon after the events of the Purge and still continued to be hunted while in unfamiliar territory. This was also before she met fang and gained the knowledge that the process of crystallization was reversible, mind you. I don't know, but that seems like character growth to me. This is especially prevelant while comparing her behavior from point 1.

3.) The fact that she thinks Snow is dumb and the rejection of his and Serah's relationship points toward her being overprotective, no? She thinks Snow isn't good enough for Serah is what I infer from the situation.

I do see where you are coming from though, as some of her actions are not justified. The fit she threw when Serah revealed her L'cie mark is contradictory to the point I'm trying to make. As an elder brother, I can relate to her wanting to protect a younger sibling, but I do not understand her rationalization in this scenario.

While reading through wiki to recall some details, I can see how some character motivation are nonsensical and melodramatic. Coupled with some of the responses within this thread, I start to question what exactly is it that I like about Lightning. I may have to replay the game someday to find out.

But for now...



I think this explains it really well. The soundtrack was really the highlight of FF13.

But how is my point valid if I keep repeating myself and dont have full understanding of the series AND mentioned some wrong things in my post? Im clearly insane.

No but seriously, thank you so much for being reasonable and actually try and understand my point, I really was starting to think I was crazy.
 

Esura

Banned
Jan 29, 2012
5,581
0
0
Both.

“I spoke about a number of things with Mr. Hashimoto today. It looks like Versus won’t be at Tokyo Game Show. They’re first putting all their effort info FFXIV and the Lightning Saga finale.” Shar later added, “He said that we’re developing it, so please look forward to next year.”


Ohhh...

You guys are waiting yet again.

This is another thing I don't understand about GAF. What the fuck is the deal with the extremely massive hard-on for this game? Is it just the overhype about its long development? Irony?

I seriously do not get it, and I am/was a massive FF fan, especially considering how it's somewhat linked to one of the most divisive FF titles in the franchise's history.

I get it but it seems weird to me considering we haven't had any new information for a few years now. Wouldn't be too weird and borderline Half-Life 3 fans level of crazy if it wasn't for someone mentioning Versus in every Square announcement.
 
Mar 9, 2006
6,261
0
0
I like Lightning. I think she's kind of hot. But aside from that, I think she's one of the better FF characters in recent years. That's just my opinion.

So just wondering why the hate going on? Let me guess, is it NOT her as a character but more about what she represents with current Square-Enix's tumultuous times: like how they push her into every game, FFXIII's disappointment, Dissidia, ios, etc.

I don't think she's that bad as a character. As for the games she stars in...that I can understand, give or take.

If the first thing you have to say about her is "she's hot" then no, she's not one of the better FF characters.
 

kayos90

Tragic victim of fan death
Mar 17, 2010
26,953
0
960
www.kayos90.blogspot.com
It was really interesting to read through the thread and get an insight to everyone's opinions.

It's been awhile since i completed FF13 so my memory may be idealized, but here are my thoughts on the subject matter at hand:



1.) I think what LuuKyK was trying to illustrate the basis of Lightning as a "hopeless character", as he puts it, through the lost of her parents. She may not have lost them recently, but it explains her cynicism at the beginning of the plot.

4.) Her character development wasn't present until her arc with Hope, where they help each other understand themselves better and further refine their ultimate motives.

While I do agree this epiphany was rather sudden, she was able to come to the conclusion of favoring hope over vengeance between the chaos of watching her sister crystallize, being cursed with the mark of the L'cie, exiled from cocoon after the events of the Purge and still continued to be hunted while in unfamiliar territory. This was also before she met fang and gained the knowledge that the process of crystallization was reversible, mind you. I don't know, but that seems like character growth to me. This is especially prevelant while comparing her behavior from point 1.

3.) The fact that she thinks Snow is dumb and the rejection of his and Serah's relationship points toward her being overprotective, no? She thinks Snow isn't good enough for Serah is what I infer from the situation.

I do see where you are coming from though, as some of her actions are not justified. The fit she threw when Serah revealed her L'cie mark is contradictory to the point I'm trying to make. As an elder brother, I can relate to her wanting to protect a younger sibling, but I do not understand her rationalization in this scenario.

While reading through wiki to recall some details, I can see how some character motivation are nonsensical and melodramatic. Coupled with some of the responses within this thread, I start to question what exactly is it that I like about Lightning. I may have to replay the game someday to find out.

But for now...



I think this explains it really well. The soundtrack was really the highlight of FF13.

The thing is that Lightning isn't portrayed as a hopeless character at all. She just doesn't understand how to adapt to social norms and is an awkward character. If we're extending beyond the games then even in the novella she comes across as a socially inept person. She doesn't see the reason to interact with people and even when she does it's military personnel. At best these interactions are also super formal. It's only the loose nature of her CO that she acts the way she does in response. This doesn't portray hopelessness at all. She's far from it. She just happens to have a trouble at hand and doesn't know how to deal with Serah by socially normal means.

Except LuukyK's point was that she developed because of her presence with Snow which is completely false. She does have development throughout the entirety of the time with Hope, however, it's completely overshadowed by Hope's development and when she does have the epiphany when they're around Carbuncle it's short, unexplained, and comes off a bit nonchalant. There's no proper build up at all. They just give you flashbacks to what happened and BAM comes the conclusion to her character development. Then it's polished up to look nice and pretty when she's with Snow and Hope's place. It's just mishandled.

Also I don't think her development has anything to do with Hope. Rather her development primarily comes from accepting what her fate is. Simple as that. However, the execution is flawed. She wants to believe that there is more to being cursed but it comes at the cost of a 180 of her personality. I don't think that's a development at all because there's no proper build up. Rather it's just a desecration and a betrayal of the character's archetype to fit the narrative the from that point onwards. This is pretty much repeating what I just typed above.

It's clear that Lightning doesn't approve of Serah and Snow's relationship, however, I think this stems from her dislike of Snow. I think I can understand your point of view that it can be a bit of both. In fact I mentioned in previous posts that it's not that she doesn't care about Serah. However, I feel the primary reason is her strong dislike for Snow's character as a whole. She feels that he's brash, impulsive, immature, and stupid. It's not a matter of him being not good enough. She feels that he's just not a responsible person period.

But how is my point valid if I keep repeating myself and dont have full understanding of the series AND mentioned some wrong things in my post? Im clearly insane.

No but seriously, thank you so much for being reasonable and actually try and understand my point, I really was starting to think I was crazy.

Your patronizing is appreciated.
 

redcrayon

Member
Dec 5, 2011
11,413
3
625
I thought Lighting was just tedious. The whole, grumpy 'I hate everyone and am a badass loner' thing might be cool if you are fourteen, but the character is a grown woman with a military rank- it just makes her come across as a sulky child rather than a capable individual. I just don't see how she could ever have functioned in a career or anyone could have looked up to or followed her when she is just so detestable.

Too often people think a female character can be forgiven anything if she is hot, which also happens to be the initial point of character design for virtually all female characters in games. They have a much smaller variety of body shapes in character design than male characters (big or small breasts seems to be the greatest choice, all the female characters have otherwise the same build of slim and toned, whereas even when Hope grows up he has zero chance of being the same size as Snow), but being attractive isn't a character trait that can make up for a whole wardrobe full of negative ones.

As for looks, I don't really like the FFXIII designs where the girls have legs twice as long as their bodies, their limbs are as thin as coat hangers and yet they are still able to swing huge melee weapons. It's the uncanny valley thing- They look cool at first but then I notice that they all look like freaks.
 
TheFLYINGManga_Ka said:
So just wondering why the hate going on? Let me guess, is it NOT her as a character but more about what she represents with current Square-Enix's tumultuous times: like how they push her into every game, FFXIII's disappointment, Dissidia, ios, etc.
Well we can't really separate her from FF XIII. If I found FF XIII and parts of its story objectionable, and Lightning is the biggest embodiment of them, tada. If it was somebody I liked from a game I liked, cameo appearances wouldn't be a big deal. But if it's the embodiment of something I didn't like being given sequels and getting her name in game titles, then it's a sign of a bigger split between me and SE.
 
I get it but it seems weird to me considering we haven't had any new information for a few years now. Wouldn't be too weird and borderline Half-Life 3 fans level of crazy if it wasn't for someone mentioning Versus in every Square announcement.

Didn't follow Half-Life 3, Duke Nukem Forever and other games deemed to be vapor-wares in the same vein as Versus, but what makes the latter stands out is how inspirational the base-material, as in all pieces of media released so far, is. Never felt that with gaming before.
 

Kageshinzo

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Aug 2, 2011
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Didn't follow Half-Life 3, Duke Nukem Forever and other games deemed to be vapor-wares in the same vein as Versus, but what makes the latter stands out is how inspirational the base-material (as in all pieces of media released so far) is. Never felt that with gaming before.

How is it inspirational though? From the trailers I've seen so far, it looks very much like any Nomura project to me. Typical sullen, stoic hero and somewhat flirty female lead (when they met and talked in that one scene) that reminds me of Squall and Rinoa when they first met, in generic Nomura-style art. Generic cutscene action. It's really just typical generic Nomura "AWESOME COOL EYE-CANDY!" stuff. Which was why the love gushing about it here in this forum is perplexing to me.
 

hertog

Member
May 19, 2009
3,386
0
890
Nijmegen
She's just uninteresting, I don;t care in the slightest about her story.
Still I'll buy the game, because I really liked FFXIII-2's battle system... sigh
 

zoukka

Member
Nov 18, 2006
36,148
2
940
Finland
She perfectly represents the Advent Children effect inside Square. They try to make the characters "cool" by keeping them in stupid postures, keeping their faces without any expression and the whole realdolls art direction is just bad.

I hate Advent Children and everything it represents. You can put Cloud from AC, Lightning and Noctis in the same room and the world would end because of reality warping. They are the same exact characters now.

Also she was badly written, acted and designed.
 

Persona86

Banned
Jun 14, 2012
6,085
0
0
She's not that bad, it's actually what she represents that people hate. Three FF13 games that people never asked for. No Versus or any alternative for people not interested in the games. She's starting to become a joke for a lot of people.
 

daninthemix

Member
Jul 7, 2010
3,622
729
1,095
She is the bland, sullen hero from a million forgotten movies.

Tera, Tifa, Aeris - those are memorable female leads.

EDIT - and Celes. A thousand times the woman Lightning is.
 
How is it inspirational though? [...] Which was why the love gushing about it here in this forum is perplexing to me.

Design by sub-traction.


I take Versus' cameos the same way as people do when they've beat Ueda's games.

Bad faith.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Noctis_Lucis_Caelum
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Stella_Nox_Fleuret
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/King_Caelum

~> What is the extent of Noctis' power?
~> How does it relate to Stella's?
~> Are those two antagonists?
~> Who is the mysterious white robed man?
~> Who is the last king?​

Among several other interrogations.

Pope guy is related to Stella if you ask me.

Now I won't lie. While I've been fond of Versus for years through, it's only recently I've started to get obsessed with it because of Internet drama that happened to me a month ago. Every single bit of said drama, whether it has to be in terms of plot or characters, can relate to what we know about Versus so far. The analogy is unsettling; Versus can really well be a fantasy based on a (virtual) reality, as they put it.

Kagari has unwarrantedly played an important role in said drama since I've mentioned her name over there more than once, even though I had never talked to her before. That's where the whole Stella/Kagari and Noctis/Me comes from; albeit she had probably no idea of what she was getting into when she switched her avatar back to Stella after I've told her I intended to pimp out Noctis from when she did me a great favor by salvaging the e-entertainment of a community of 50+ people. Process had been very tricky at times, because I had to come up with the fan-fiction in order to reach out to FFGAF without giving the impression we were flirting together. She wasn't my accomplice.

Story literally is an online fairytale. I can always provide you with more details in private if you want to know more about that.
 

Persona86

Banned
Jun 14, 2012
6,085
0
0
Now I won't lie. While I've been fond of Versus for years through, it's only recently I've started to get obsessed with it because of Internet drama that happened to me a month ago. Every single bit of said drama, whether it has to be in terms of plot or characters, can relate to what we know about Versus so far. The analogy is unsettling; Versus can really well be a fantasy based on a (virtual) reality, as they put it.

Kagari has unwarrantedly played an important role in said drama since I've mentioned her name over there more than once, even though I had never talked to her before. That's where the whole Stella/Kagari and Noctis/Me comes from; albeit she had probably no idea of what she was getting into when she switched her avatar back to Stella after I've told her I intended to pimp out Noctis from when she did me a great favor by salvaging the e-entertainment of a community of 50+ people. Process had been very tricky at times, because I had to come up with the fan-fiction in order to reach out to FFGAF without giving the impression we were flirting together. She wasn't my accomplice.

Story literally is an online fairytale. I can always provide you with more details in private if you want to know more about that.
What the eff!? :)

Also.....Kagari is a lady!?
 

sonicmj1

Member
Dec 2, 2007
8,973
0
0
What the eff!? :)

Also.....Kagari is a lady!?

If my close reading is correct, it's not as creepy as it sounds.

But basically, the general idea is that because we know so little about Versus, the small details we do know take greater significance. The world of the game is a giant mystery box. Though we know a little about the sort of setting it is and basic elements about the characters, anything could be inside! So Narolf can dive into the outlines of that world and build a gigantic, perfect fantasy inside his head. He can even occupy it vicariously, because the game doesn't exist. He has a lot of leeway to imagine the Noctis character he'd like the most. I think all the stuff with Kagari works within that context (the imagined Versus world, not the virtual land of GAF or real life). At least, that's what I want to be the case. I'm not actually interested in the details, any more than I actually want to know the deep fundamental truths behind the world of Fabula Nova Crystalis.

Of course, when Versus comes out, that waveform will have to collapse, and the perfection that can only exist in our imaginations could be destroyed easily, just as it has been countless times in the past in Star Wars, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy VII, or elsewhere. Nobody wants answers. They want a premise, a promise, a world they can occupy filled with new places to discover and new possibilities to be realized.

At this point, Versus's unique fusion of modern society and JRPG magical power fantasy has a lot of promise. We'll see if that's still true when it finally comes out.
 

CrankyKong

Member
Dec 31, 2010
1,710
0
0
Australia
Her character did nothing for me, and she keeps showing up in games.
But I mean if there is this massive audience out there that loves her by all means keep making them.
 
If my close reading is correct, it's not as creepy as it sounds.

But basically, the general idea is that because we know so little about Versus, the small details we do know take greater significance. The world of the game is a giant mystery box. Though we know a little about the sort of setting it is and basic elements about the characters, anything could be inside! So Narolf can dive into the outlines of that world and build a gigantic, perfect fantasy inside his head. He can even occupy it vicariously, because the game doesn't exist. He has a lot of leeway to imagine the Noctis character he'd like the most. I think all the stuff with Kagari works within that context (the imagined Versus world, not the virtual land of GAF or real life). At least, that's what I want to be the case. I'm not actually interested in the details, any more than I actually want to know the deep fundamental truths behind the world of Fabula Nova Crystalis.

Of course, when Versus comes out, that waveform will have to collapse, and the perfection that can only exist in our imaginations could be destroyed easily, just as it has been countless times in the past in Star Wars, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy VII, or elsewhere. Nobody wants answers. They want a premise, a promise, a world they can occupy filled with new places to discover and new possibilities to be realized.

At this point, Versus's unique fusion of modern society and JRPG magical power fantasy has a lot of promise. We'll see if that's still true when it finally comes out.
Couldn't have summed up my own vision more subtly myself. Very good job.

While Versus is the loam, the story also encapsulates analogies to FF (II, V, VII, VIII, IX and X), KH, Persona, DmC and Tekken; albeit I've never made the last two ones apparent, even though they were on the draft. Chances are, there may also be some Titanic buried in there, but that one better stays buried for how immoral it is; also, Bonnie & Clyde, with the romance replaced by brotherhood. You get the point.

I could go on and go on by making a giant post summing up all references, but as it stands, I have the impression to be basking in the attention here. I wouldn't mind doing it in the FFC thread in the event enough people ask for it, at least three.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Mar 18, 2012
15,554
1,252
985
Well I already did, and countless times in countless threads in the past. I expected you to know that though, since you are commited to quote everything I post in these threads, But anyway. Lightning is indeed dynamic. I mean, in the beginning of XIII we have a hopeless character. She just lost her parents, is struggling to survive in a job that is not the fittest for who the society expect her to be. At the same time, the world she lives in is udergoing a massive and complex debate/questioning of who is good and who is bad. All the xenophobic treatment towards the Pulse people and the war. If that wasnt already enough she has to be able to protect her younger sister who now looks up to her as the mom and dad that she doesnt have anymore. The fact that she is overprotective about Serah is actually quite endearing, seeing as how much she rejects her relationship with Snow. I mean, she cares about her, she is the one her parents asked to take care of Serah, why all of sudden this guy appears and wants to play the role she is supposed to be playing. And why is Serah so open to him, sometimes even more than she is to her. All this is clear when you play the game and shows how non-onedimensional Lightning actually is. The fact that she struggles to deal with this throught the game is even more impressing for me because she has to work WITH Snow while trying to bring back Serah to life, who, funny enough, is the one she was trying to get AWAY from Snow. All and all in the end of the game she is able to overcome all this past/historic hate she grew about Snow and accept their love, and comes to understand there are diferent kinds of approaches as to how someone loves the other. Serah was still her sister, and was Snow's fiancee, that would not interefere in the way Serah looked up to her at all. And thats what she saw in the ending of XIII. The fun/sad fact is that in XIII-2 she was actually imprisioned in Valhalla and had to change roles, and now its Serah, the one she is supposed to protect that have to go looking for her. How bad she must have felt? All that work for nothing? How safe was Serah? There was nothing she could do. Its such a desperate time that she had to actually reach for Serah to ask for help. Isnt this a progress and clear change in her personality. She was able to ask help for the one she refused to let go of her wings in XIII. She even asked help for someone she didnt even know (Noel) and eventually let Snow help too. This all proves that all the claims that point to the fact that is bland, boring, one dimensional, etc are very false, at least imo. It really is a dynamic development throughout the two games, she went from one extreme to another. I cant wait to see how she deals when the focus is not on her or Serah in Lightning Returns. She now has something much bigger on her hands, I mean she is trying to save the world, the responsability does stack up at this point. Interesting times ahead.

1. I would think a hopeless character just plain wouldn't give a shit anymore or would be morally depressed with their surroundings.

2. She DID NOT just lose her parents. Her nameless father was called out for a mission and he never returned and is otherwise considered dead or MIA. At the age of 15 her mother died from sickness and she was left alone to fend with her twin sister, her only remaining family.

3. There is no debate. The fal'cie leaders have manipulated the people to believe that life on Gran Pulse is "evil" and must be eradicated and as XIII shows the populace is gullible and easily persuaded thus Gran Pulse is thrust into repeated wars all in a grand scheme to sacrifice mass amounts of life to open Etro's Gate which may be in direct relation to the Interdimensional Rift, or specifically the Ethereal Plane of Existence.

4. She was not being overprotective, she was being selfish. Serah was her only connection to human interaction, and Snow threatened to take away what gave her life meaning hence she lashed out and pushed her away instead of grasping the situation to her full understanding. This one reckless act causes Snow to do something if Lightning, Serah's own sister, refuses to take action.

5. Lightning never inquired about the relationship about Snow and Serah, therefore did not choose to understand the "why" they like each other.

6. Lightning's imprisonment into Valhalla goes directly against her statement of not serving a higher power and fighting her fate, instead the opposite happens. And her choice to have Noel bring Serah to her finalizes Serah's death at Lightning's diction. With this Lightning's only reason for living and her sole motivation is drawn to extinction and by none other then Lightning herself, in effect concluding the last page of Serah's biography.

7. Her personality didn't progress. It had a 180 degree turn.

--------------------------

Whereas we have GILGAMESH.

In Type 0 it is revealed
that he is born in Orience as the son of the King of Genbu. Because of his position he is scorned and distrusted by the populace of Genbu as a King of Genbu must be strong and demonstrate his power to be accepted by the warrior nation. In his childhood there was only one friend he ever had. Enkidu. It is implied they were close and did many things together, when the king died GILGAMESH was tested and succeeded in battle and was to become King. In the year 832 a coup d'tat occured, an assassination on the king's life, which Enkidu prevented but the cost was great...Enkidu's very life. GILGAMESH was overcome with rage and he wanted to kill his friend's murderers but was quelled by his dying friend's last words for him to spare them. In accordance he exiled these betrayer's from the nation. But Enkidu's death was a mighty blow to GILGAMESH'S mind and not even the Crystal could eliminate the memory of his friend, the only one he could trust, in this sense GILGAMESH was alone, stricken with grief he went on to rule Genbu not feeling anger towards the people of Genbu, guided solely by his friend's last words.

10 years later in 842, the Pax Codex Peace Treaty is broken by the Milites Empire and attacked Suzaku and was repelled, the next move was to attack Genbu directly and in a single stroke by dropping an Atomic Bomb on the nation known as the Ultima Bomb, except this one was bolstered by an L'cie making it far more powerful. In this instance Genbu is completely wiped from the face of Orience and GILGAMESH in the manga appears to be enveloped by the Bomb at point blank range. However, he miraculously survived, though it was not by mere chance it was due to the Armor of the King he wore, an armor forged by the Genbu Crystal's power that it is able to negate destructive power even that of Eidolons and the Ultima Bomb, of which Ultima means "The Strongest". When he awoke he would realize that he alone survived, he the King of Genbu, all his subjects annihilated with him as the survivor. A king of a dead nation. In his frustration and the later knowledge that the Genbu Crystal is drained of it's strength can be implied that GILGAMESH took his despair and frustration on the Crystal absorbing it's strength, combined with possible radiation from the Ultima Bomb slowly affecting his body. He goes mad, insane and loses his mind.

At the battle of the Big Bridge, he seemingly appears out of nowhere and annihilates Milites and Rubrum forces singlehandedly in a primitive rampage with the remnants of the crystal and GILGAMESH himself fighting for his very own body, a battle of the mind. Nothing could stand in his path, no magitek armor or eidolon, nor Class Zero could stop him. He spares Class Zero as he barely wins out in his mentality and regains his senses but not who he is and is disappointed with his foe's strength and leaves the battle. Alexander is summoned which completely decimates the Milites Empire's bulk of forces,


GILGAMESH is able to survive this onslaught of destruction again only through the armor but by time he reaches the capital he is severely weakened, he fights Machina only to regain his memories of who he was and fights Machina seeking to die, he is defeated but does not die. Instead it is implied he falls into the Rift by being consumed by his own power.

Here a transformation occurs and he becomes more monstrous, and by his own direction he begins seeking weapons based on what he remembers of what his people expected from him. From here on out he traveled Orience for weapons and continues his eternal quest throughout the FF series seeking worthy opponents and will take their weapons upon their defeat, never seeking to kill as to live by Enkidu's last words.

Later he travels to the different worlds and is placed in various roles, where sometimes he fights the heroes on equal footing but loses out or he may even surpass them but uses the Excalipoor or is shafted out in a comedic manner. Other situations are more serious as such in FF8, where he didn't mess around. And since he accompanies some of the heroes in certain installments it can be implied he helps defeat villains like Kefka, Ultimecia, the final boss in Revenant Wings, and Caius himself.

But the point is GILGAMESH truly discarded his past even if he was dealt a crappy hand of cards. He tries to make the best of it and tries to retain his humanity or what's left of it by adhering to his original home's customs and mannerisms. As that's all he has left. He is their sole living memory.
 

Celcius

°Temp. member
Mar 11, 2009
8,425
2,906
1,455
+1 for the number of people who like Lightning.
I just think she's cool (at least in the first game, I quit halfway through the second)
 

Vashetti

Banned
Oct 3, 2012
20,146
10
0
United Kingdom
Lightning, Noel and Caius are the only redeeming FFXIII-series characters.

It's just Square's obsession with Lightning that tarnishes her.

"Look, we can make a good game with Lightning, we promise!"
 

skypunch

Banned
Sep 14, 2012
2,305
0
0
United Kingdom
It's amazing how people can give very good grounded reasons to why Lightning's a shit character, yet the ones who like her can only back up their opinion with "Because she looks cool" or "Because she's hot". And even then, there's people that still say they she's a good character.

Humanity is fucked.
 

I'm an expert

Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Nov 26, 2008
13,774
4
800
It's not lightning I hate. It's FFXIII in general. Also the fact that Square-Enix thinks that we want MORE of her.

Some of us honestly do.. whether it's financially sound for them..I don't really care. More of something I like is what's awesome. I totally get that some don't want it, of course.
 

dan2026

Member
Jul 10, 2012
11,213
1
0
The better question is why do they keep using her?

If all the fan feedback is 'boring character in boring game', or 'female cloud with half the personality'. I'm surprised she wasn't shelved pronto.
 

dan2026

Member
Jul 10, 2012
11,213
1
0
Probably because Toriyama nets them short term profit.

Technically XIII-2's sales were doubled if you suggest each copy also bought all the DLC.

I really surprised XIII-2 sold that well after the massive disappointment people had with XIII.
 

MagiusNecros

Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Mar 18, 2012
15,554
1,252
985
I really surprised XIII-2 sold that well after the massive disappointment people had with XIII.

Well there are Square loyalists who can be hurt by Square and still buy whatever they toss at them.

And I think XIII-2 had the hype going for it. And Lightning was their main selling point.
 

CorvoSol

Member
Jan 11, 2012
27,425
0
0
I'm actually rather pleased with Magius' pointing out that Lightning in XIII-2 is everything Lightning in XIII hated, right up to killing Serah, because XIII-2's ending undoes everything anyone tried to do by
killing Serah, destroying Cocoon, and removing Fang and Vanille
.
 

Midou

Member
Apr 21, 2009
6,070
0
0
Well there are Square loyalists who can be hurt by Square and still buy whatever they toss at them.

And I think XIII-2 had the hype going for it. And Lightning was their main selling point.

I heard XIII-2 did a lot worse than XIII though.
 

Dr.Acula

Banned
May 12, 2006
16,300
0
0
I think Lightning's okay, but I just don't get why she's being pushed. Square had lots of great characters in all their other FF games, but they've all been one-and-dones. You can't tell me that Lightning was such an amazing character that she became bigger than the game and demanded further exploration.