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Opinion Drama Linus Tech - Xbox's decision to allow Xbox One controllers on the Series X/S is a 'game changer' for him

GHG

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What is so new and innovative about the Xbox 360, Xbox One and Xbox One X controllers that each new xbox console should drop support for the previous controller iteration?

What is so new and innovative about the Wii Pro, WiiU Pro and the Switch Pro controllers that that each new Nintendo console should drop support for the previous controller iteration?

Cause from where I'm standing, each controller is practically the same and the only reason they are not compatible is greed. Or is this one of those "I believe in generations" things?
Look, if you're so desperate to continue to use your old crusty controllers with cheeto dust clogging up the triggers then go for it, there are platforms that cater perfectly to your needs. You can go for an Xbox or you can game on PC.

But I'm not going to sit here and begrudge companies for trying something new and then pushing the adoption of said new technology.

How will new features/innovations get widely utilised/adopted if not everybody is on board?

Look at the rumble triggers on the Xbox One for example. Great new feature at the time but it was wasted. None of us have tried the new Dualsense for exsmple so we don't know if it's gimmicky or not.

If one of the new features does happen to be a game changer and add value to the experience then why would you not want that to be widely used? Just because it might hurt the feelings of the people who still want to use their old controllers? No sorry, I can't get on board with that line of thinking.

If all you ever do is look backwards then we will never move forwards.
 
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_Spr_Drnk

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It's a bit concerning that some of you are okay with your old controllers becoming obsolete. The DualSense still has pretty much the same button layout as the DualShock. Adaptive triggers and fancy vibration are not game changing features, they're gimmicks just like the touchpad and the gyroscope. There's really only 1 reason that you cannot use the DS4 on the PS5 and that is so $ony can sell you new controllers.
Thanks for your concern, it's nice to know you care.

Sony being anti consumer, rather than actually innovating in something other than raw power.

Got it.
 

Kimahri

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It’s crazy to me....if I’m laying down the type of $$ these consoles will cost, I want new experiences and new tech. It’s nuts to me.
Meh, I've anticipated new generations since I first saw the pictures of the Super Nintendo. Controllers bring next to nothing new. New experiences? Those come through good ideas and great design. I've heard enough lofty and unfulfilled promises about new controllers to not care anymore.

The last innovation in controllers that mattered was the analogue stick. I welcome Microsoft's approach. Nintendo and Sony can suck it with their overpriced nonsense.
 
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onQ123

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It's the same damn controller! it didn't change the game at all I was able to use my PS Move controller on my PS4 , I'm able to use older mouse & keyboards on my newer computers because they are the same devices
 

rob305

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They should have sold the X / S without a controller and taken another 50 off the price...put a big notice on the box saying CONTROLLER NOT INCLUDED and added compatibility with dualshock / dualsense controllers
 

jaysius

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The DualSense actually being a new controller with new features and interesting tech is a game changer but you do you Linus....
Adding resistance to sticks/triggers isn't going to make users have stronger fingers, that'd only work if they played with those features 20-30 minutes a day with some kind of breaks, it's going to cause users fatigue in their hands. Sony is going to find out why this idea wasn't explored earlier... it's going to lead to carpal tunnel syndrome and other repetitive strain hand/wrist issues.

It's no worry, 3rd party devs are only going to humor Sony with half-hearted Dual Sense attempts, so all these gimmicks are going to do is make the controllers more expensive. If you don't believe me, look at the worthless touchpad that 3rd parties used the corners as BUTTONS and rarely touched that stupid light ever on the dualshock 4. Elite Dangerous allowed you to bind each corner of that touchpad to an action, and that truly showed why no other companies went there... because the top corners aren't accurate or great, and even in doing that, they didn't allow the touchpad shit, like there weren't any "slide the finger mouse emulation" hooks in that game at all.

I'm just glad that we don't have the "Rumble is a last gen feature" because they were getting sued so they couldn't use rumble in the Six-axis... oh yea GYRO controls, I forgot that the Dual Sense even had that real winner of a gimmick, that nobody uses.

The real thing, that NEITHER lazy fuck R&D were brave enough to tackle this new gen was a better integration of back paddles/buttons, if either company put a real effort into making this idea mainstream, we could have had back buttons on these controllers that everyone could learn how to use, instead of half-assed attempts that most people can't enjoy.
 
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Endless Fluff

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It's odd how some people have just "bought" into Xbox's narrative that generations shouldn't matter anymore.
It's odd how some people have just "bought" into Sony's narrative that generations matter.

PC gamers have always appreciated that they can use whatever to play their games. Even real bananas if they so desire. The fact that people defend that Sony is pretty much turning your gamepads into useless trash or things you have to sell (yeah, really looking forward to buying an additional second gamepad, because Pro Evolution Soccer really needs them DualSense features!!!) is what's odd.
 

Nikana

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When you have kids I have to assume its a big factor. Especially with the rising costs of controllers.
 

quest

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Being able to reuse my elite controller is huge and a big money saver. One of the many reasons I will go series x first then ps5 when the slim is out.
 
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Yoshi

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He is right. As long as controllers change so little from one console to the next, there is no good reason to lock old controllers out on a system level. The additional features on PS5 can be nice, but they will often not even be used and in those cases, why not give the player the option to use their old controllers? And to those geniuses that claim "heh, Microsoft does not believe in generations, as opposed to Sony" - the arguably biggest generational leap PlayStation has ever had was from PS1 to PS2. And it was precisely that generational jump where Sony did allow continued use of old controllers.
 
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AV

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Look, if you're so desperate to continue to use your old crusty controllers with cheeto dust clogging up the triggers then go for it, there are platforms that cater perfectly to your needs. You can go for an Xbox or you can game on PC.

But I'm not going to sit here and begrudge companies for trying something new and then pushing the adoption of said new technology.

How will new features/innovations get widely utilised/adopted if not everybody is on board?

Look at the rumble triggers on the Xbox One for example. Great new feature at the time but it was wasted. None of us have tried the new Dualsense for exsmple so we don't know if it's gimmicky or not.

If one of the new features does happen to be a game changer and add value to the experience then why would you not want that to be widely used? Just because it might hurt the feelings of the people who still want to use their old controllers? No sorry, I can't get on board with that line of thinking.

If all you ever do is look backwards then we will never move forwards.
It's not about hurting feelings, it's about not forcing people to pay probably $70 for a second controller to play a local multiplayer game when their current controllers are almost functionally identical.

The problem is the built-in mic array, and that's it. Adaptive triggers may feel great, but they're still inputs that work on a scale like old triggers. Haptic feedback may be cool, but it's HD rumble and people will turn it off, it's not a requirement to play a game. The built-in mic array is the new true input which a Dualshock 4 doesn't have, so if your PS5 game requires use of it, then fair enough, new controller for the new input.

The issue here is that much like the Sixaxis motion controls, or to a lesser extent the DS4's touchpad; the amount of games that require you to use the built-in mic are likely to be absolutely minimal. So while it's a technically valid excuse, it's not a great one. If the DualSense had, say, a Z button on the back this time, no-one would be having this conversation. It's just tricky because the mic input is such a tiny new addition.
 
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lostinblue

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Man, those PS3 games with crazy amounts of Sixaxis requirements are such classics now.
Not to mention the PS4 games using the awesome touchpad thing.

I don't think I've ever used it and it is my main platform this gen, I bet a lot of people don't even know it's a touchpad, instead, they think it's a huge button. Most people also didn't know PS2 had analog buttons, nor that the GC had analog shoulder buttons.


I can't see why such features couldn't be optional, every console comes with one controller anyway. older PS4 controllers could be used for local multiplayer or just when the PS5 one is charging.

They don't allow it because it would reduce second PS5 controller sales.


As for the value of such proposition. This year I had to buy a second hand Xbox One with two controllers for a household with kids, and while Xbox One market value less than that of a vanilla PS4, buying consoles this year is such a dead end situation, that fact that the controllers can be salvaged for something else feels like you're still retaining part of that value.
 
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Endless Fluff

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He is right. As long as controllers change so little from one console to the next, there is no good reason to lock old controllers out on a system level. The additional features on PS5 can be nice, but they will often not even be used and in those cases, why not give the player the option to use their old controllers? And to those geniuses that claim "heh, Microsoft does not believe in generations, as opposed to Sony" - the arguably biggest generational leap PlayStation has ever had was from PS1 to PS2. And it was precisely that generational jump where Sony did allow continued use of old controllers.
Ooooh, I completely forgot about that and this example is perfect. The Dual Shock had analogue buttons, so a completely new feature for PS2 games and the original Dual Shock still worked.
 

GODbody

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Thanks for your concern, it's nice to know you care.

Sony being anti consumer, rather than actually innovating in something other than raw power.

Got it.
How are they innovating? The only new button is a share button. The rest of the buttoma are same as the DS4.

Please share these innovations that require games to no longer be able to utilize the DS4 because it doesn't have a share button.

It's concerning that many find Xbox's method to be a bad thing and not a good thing that hundreds of $ in controllers doesn't suddenly become obsolete due to an 'innovating' new controller. But to each his own. Im just imagining if my keyboard and mouse become obsolete everytime a new GPU came out.
 

Phrixotrichus

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It's a bit concerning that some of you are okay with your old controllers becoming obsolete. The DualSense still has pretty much the same button layout as the DualShock. Adaptive triggers and fancy vibration are not game changing features, they're gimmicks just like the touchpad and the gyroscope. There's really only 1 reason that you cannot use the DS4 on the PS5 and that is so $ony can sell you new controllers.
Everything`s a gimmick until it`s properly used. The Touchpad on the DS4 became a 5-Buttons-in-one-spot feature later this gen that I wouldn`t want to miss anymore.
That MS is simply keeping the old controllers and don`t even try to innovate is pretty pathetic.....
 
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TheContact

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I would say it's a nice move by MS but is by no means a "game changer". If anything, the PCIE 4.0 SSDs would be the game changing part about this generation.
 

Sethbacca

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Don't fix what isn't broken.
By that token every game should be using the original pong rotary dials. It's probably for the best that there are companies pushing the tech and games forward rather than those just seeking subscriptions and half assing it.
 
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MiguelItUp

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I feel like people mocking this don't really get the perspective he's coming from. It's a game changer for HIM, clearly an opinion no one has to agree with, lol. But I mean, the cost of controllers has been getting pretty damn high, so being able to carry them over and save some cash is pretty cool.

I think it would've been cool if PS5 allowed PS4 controller use, then just omitted specific controller capabilities. That being said, it IS a new console, so the idea of needing all new hardware also isn't unexpected. It would just be cool to see more stuff like that happen in the future, especially with the costs of consoles, accessories, and peripherals all going up.

That being said, I still don't understand how or why Microsoft hasn't gone the chargeable controller route. It's weird relying on batteries, but hey, I used rechargeable batteries in the past and I never had any problems. The charge would also last quite awhile. 🤷‍♂️
 

PropellerEar

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Valid point for some, but I like new controllers when they bring something new.

Never been a fan of Linus, it is apparent he is not the brains behind the show.
Something about this guy really irks me. 🤷‍♂️
 

JLB

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Oh, didnt know that ps4 controllers were not compatible with ps5. Thats really bad, specially with usd75+ dollars with taxes.
 
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ethomaz

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I'm not sure if it is a good ideia.

I mean specially about the PS5 because if you can use old controller on the console devs won't try and focus in use the features of Dual Sense.

You need to build a equal playbase with Dual Sense to everybody with PS5 so that way it will be explored.
 
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ethomaz

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Oh, didnt know that ps4 controllers were not compatible with ps5. Thats really bad, specially with usd75+ dollars with taxes.
It is compatible but not for PS5 games.
 

RoboFu

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I'm not sure if it is a good ideia.

I mean specially about the PS5 because if you can use old controller on the console devs won't try and focus in use the features of Dual Sense.
The only feature that might would be an issue is Adaptive triggers. even that would just be a trigger that is turned on and off on the DS4.
 

Shmunter

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Changing the game without changing. There must be a deep philosophical meaning to this......wait...no, no there isn’t.
 
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ethomaz

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The only feature that might would be an issue is Adaptive triggers. even that would just be a trigger that is turned on and off on the DS4.
Nope.

"DualSense marks a radical departure from our previous controller offerings and captures just how strongly we feel about making a generational leap with PS5. The new controller, along with the many innovative features in PS5, will be transformative for games – continuing our mission at PlayStation to push the boundaries of play, now and in the future. To the PlayStation community, I truly want to thank you for sharing this exciting journey with us as we head toward PS5’s launch in Holiday 2020. We look forward to sharing more information about PS5, including the console design, in the coming months. "

Haptic feedback and build-in mic is the key new features that can't be turned on/off on DS4.
You will be losing key gaming experience if you not use Dual Sense.
 
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GHG

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It's not about hurting feelings, it's about not forcing people to pay probably $70 for a second controller to play a local multiplayer game when their current controllers are almost functionally identical.

The problem is the built-in mic array, and that's it. Adaptive triggers may feel great, but they're still inputs that work on a scale like old triggers. Haptic feedback may be cool, but it's HD rumble and people will turn it off, it's not a requirement to play a game. The built-in mic array is the new true input which a Dualshock 4 doesn't have, so if your PS5 game requires use of it, then fair enough, new controller for the new input.

The issue here is that much like the Sixaxis motion controls, or to a lesser extent the DS4's touchpad; the amount of games that require you to use the built-in mic are likely to be absolutely minimal. So while it's a technically valid excuse, it's not a great one. If the DualSense had, say, a Z button on the back this time, no-one would be having this conversation. It's just tricky because the mic input is such a tiny new addition.
The thing is if people aren't made to try out new features then you won't be in a position to do a thorough analysis as to whether they are beneficial or not.

Let's take the most recent example where a new "feature" has then gone on to have widespread adoption - the share button.

At first glance it seemed inconsequential:
  • why do I need this?
  • Can I have the option button back please
  • The Xbox doesn't have it, it's not necessary
  • Why can't we just have a button combination instead?
Fast forward a generation and it would be strange if the new controllers didn't have it, it was even also adopted by the competition. While it's a minor thing in the grand scheme of innovations, it's now a standard feature.

So my point being, if everybody wasn't given this new button to try out then not everybody would have been able to experience it and see the value of said button for themselves. If you allow people to use controllers without this feature then not everybody tries it. If just one new feature on the new controllers gets carried over to next gen as an "industry standard" feature then it's a success.

Yes it is heavy handed, but sometimes it's necessary. If you don't make changes then everything will stay the same.

The only time I disagree with this is where there is forced obsolescence but no new features at the same time. There is no benefit to anybody in a situation like this, it's just flat out greedy. An example of this being when they forced people to buy new racing wheels this gen despite the FFB being the same.
 
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Stuart360

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Not everyone likes or wants gimmicky stuff, especially with controllers. Myself, i turn off rumble in every game for example.
Also being able to use older controllers on a new system is a good thing imo, at least financially anyway.
 
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Yoshi

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I'm not sure if it is a good ideia.

I mean specially about the PS5 because if you can use old controller on the console devs won't try and focus in use the features of Dual Sense.

You need to build a equal playbase with Dual Sense to everybody with PS5 so that way it will be explored.
Every dev could still decide to limit the game to PS5 controllers. Same as devs could do on PS2, and did at times. Wii was compatible with GameCube controllers, but I do not think there even was a game that used GCN controllers as the only option.