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Opinion Drama Linus Tech - Xbox's decision to allow Xbox One controllers on the Series X/S is a 'game changer' for him

AV

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The thing is if people aren't made to try out new features then you won't be in a position to do a thorough analysis as to whether they are beneficial or not.
Disagree, at least in theory, because I'd be stunned if you couldn't turn all this stuff off. Triggers that get harder to press and games that require you to lift the controller to your face to blow in it are really bad for accessibility. Especially in 2020 where we're seeing more and more of it implemented into video games, and that's a hard thing to argue against. And if there's options to disable it, then Sony is already collecting the data on who does, guaranteed.

Let's take the most recent example where a new "feature" has then gone on to have widespread adoption - the share button.

Fast forward a generation and it would be strange if the new controllers didn't have it, it was even also adopted by the competition. While it's a minor thing in the grand scheme of innovations, it's now a standard feature.
The share button is a super weird example considering how many people have never touched the thing, and never will. It's totally superfluous. I think a better example would have been the giant touch pad on the Dualshock 4 - not only is there the touch aspect, it actually registers where you're pressing the button, so it works as a whole new set of inputs. That's the exact reason why I didn't have this same problem with the PS3 > PS4 transition, it would be impossible to play a massive amount of PS4 games without devs specifically coding backwards compatibility with controllers. That I can get behind.

I think the problem many people in this thread are having is distinguishing between feedback and input. If I want to play Sackboy's Big Adventure co-op with my partner, I shouldn't be forced to pay $70 for a new controller that's functionally identical just so that she can "experience the innovation that is HD rumble", when I have two perfectly fine DS4s I already gave Sony money for. It's bullshit. Where I understand it is when there's new inputs involved, i.e. the mic array. My personal issue right now is that these "new" inputs are probably going to be totally optional given the accessibility thing I mentioned above. It's not a big new button in the middle of the pad like the DS4 had. If it was, no-one would realistically be having this discussion, or at least, they shouldn't.

It's the same as game exclusivity. I know why a business chooses to do it, that doesn't mean I have to like it. It's so weird to me that there's so many people (not you) in this thread that want to blindly throw money at Sony at, and are shilling for, features they haven't even tried yet. They might hate the adaptive triggers in November for all they know. Them repeating the words "innovating" and "pushing forward" just makes me think they work for marketing departments.
 

martino

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What was our usual sheeps position when ,while lacking analog, ps1 controllers were working on most ps2 title ?
i'm sure they were worshiping the great sony for it.
 
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Agent X

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He is right. As long as controllers change so little from one console to the next, there is no good reason to lock old controllers out on a system level. The additional features on PS5 can be nice, but they will often not even be used and in those cases, why not give the player the option to use their old controllers? And to those geniuses that claim "heh, Microsoft does not believe in generations, as opposed to Sony" - the arguably biggest generational leap PlayStation has ever had was from PS1 to PS2. And it was precisely that generational jump where Sony did allow continued use of old controllers.
You're right, Sony already set the precedent with PS2. It is for this reason that I believe that Sony will allow some PS5 games to be playable with DualShock 4, even though their PR machine is not currently touting that ability.

If a PS5 game requires the new DualSense features, then you won't be able to use a DualShock 4. However, if it does not need DualSense features, then they might still enable players to use a DualShock 4. There could be standard symbols/blurbs on the back of PS5 game boxes that designate DualShock 4 and DualSense compatibility.
 

Arcadia88

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Rant....
Rear paddles are about all I ever hear talked about from Gamers. And neither sony or microsoft delivered on that.
Have to buy special addons or special controllers for rear paddles.

Rant off
 

AV

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You're right, Sony already set the precedent with PS2. It is for this reason that I believe that Sony will allow some PS5 games to be playable with DualShock 4, even though their PR machine is not currently touting that ability.

If a PS5 game requires the new DualSense features, then you won't be able to use a DualShock 4. However, if it does not need DualSense features, then they might still enable players to use a DualShock 4. There could be standard symbols/blurbs on the back of PS5 game boxes that designate DualShock 4 and DualSense compatibility.
It's you that I actually owe an apology to from the last time we did this thread, because I hadn't thought about the mic as a new input at the time, and that's the key issue now. Sorry on that one, I was wrong. I still have an issue with it, and I still don't believe Sony will change their mind for certain games, but the mic definitely counts as a new input.
 

supernova8

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The DualSense actually being a new controller with new features and interesting tech is a game changer but you do you Linus....
While I completely agree that the DualSense sounds great in theory (we as non-press, people with no vested interest whatsoever have not tried it so we cannot say for sure), the haptics and adaptive triggers are a Sony-specific feature and that would suggest to me that the vast majority (if not all) third parties will only implement those features (if at all) in superficial ways that do not really affect the core gameplay.

In that respect, surely you agree it would be great for Sony to allow PS4 controllers to work, even if it's with a disclaimer that you'll need DualSense to get the "full exprience".

In a single sentence - it should be possible to have a brand new controller with new features AND allow PS4 controllers to work, not seeing the logic of how it has to be one or the other.

edit: to be clear though, it's not a 'game changer' but it'd be a nice-to-have.
 
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VincentMatts

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It's odd how some people have just "bought" into Xbox's narrative that generations shouldn't matter anymore.
They've literally only ever mattered on console. They dont on PC, they dont on mobile or any other industry. No industry stops supporting old products as soon as a new one comes out, at least not on day1. So that narrative is the one that doesnt make sense. You just accepted it cause sony told you to.
 
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dave_d

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Everything`s a gimmick until it`s properly used. The Touchpad on the DS4 became a 5-Buttons-in-one-spot feature later this gen that I wouldn`t want to miss anymore.
That MS is simply keeping the old controllers and don`t even try to innovate is pretty pathetic.....
Hell, I wouldn't want to play Splatoon or BotW without gyro aiming. (Yes, I know different system but same idea.)
 
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MilkLizard

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I wouldn't call it a gamechanger, but being able to use your old controllers sure is nice for multiplayer or in case your standard controller breaks or something. There is really no excuse for not being able to use the WiiU Pro Controller on the Switch without jailbreaking the whole fucking console.
 
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Linus is such a contemptible little cheapskate. The basic point isn't wrong though. Sony's new controller features over the past couple of generations have been underwhelming to put it politely. I guess we'll see if DualSense accomplishes anything.

Standard controllers don't really hold up to normal day to day use as well as they should And my Elite controller while solving some things (which should be fixed in the base model) like having sticks that don't grind away has so many other issues that I've had to sink 70 dollars into crappy off brand replacement parts in less than two years of ownership to keep it working decently.

Having a pile of shitty worn down extra controllers for local multiplayer isn't much of a use case for me but yeah sure if it for you Sony isn't doing you any favors.
 

LeftThumbstick

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Buying a new controller... no!

Buying disposable batteries weekly... yes!
lmao, who even does that? You do know that for the past 20+ years we’ve hard rechargeable batteries right?

I’ve literally no idea why this forum and anyone anti-Xbox goes against disposable batteries when a) They last hours longer than PS’s proprietary internal, much longer and b) They are literally cheaper in every way.

Honestly, one of the most stupid takes I’ve seen yet.
 
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Bryank75

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lmao, who even does that? You do know that for the past 20+ years we’ve hard rechargeable batteries right?

I’ve literally no idea why this forum and anyone anti-Xbox goes against disposable batteries when a) They last hours longer than PS’s proprietary internal, much longer and b) They are literally cheaper in every way.

Honestly, one of the most stupid takes I’ve seen yet.
Ah, I understand.

'Fuck the environment, I've got an Xbox', I think it's a good slogan. /JK

Take it easy, if you like batteries, that's fine.
 

cyber69

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And yet everyone here wants to play on a console because pc gaming "is too complicated"
TF?

Speak for yourself. I only have a console because of Sony exclusives. Everything else plays best on PC.

The biggest barrier to PC gaming is the cost to have an exceptionally greater experience than what is available on console.
 
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Bumblebeetuna

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It’s a nice optional feature of the Xbox. I’m glad there will be a new controller included, and I’m glad that I can use any of my five or six Xbone controllers as well. It’s just another example of MS making a good move for the consumer that isn’t necessarily a big deal. But they add up. And hey, god forbid a dude has an opinion. Some of the replies in here are just embarrassing. I hope as Sony embraces the same services and games on PC mindset MS has been pushing, some of you outgrow your allegiance to a plastic box.
 
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GymWolf

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Rant....
Rear paddles are about all I ever hear talked about from Gamers. And neither sony or microsoft delivered on that.
Have to buy special addons or special controllers for rear paddles.

Rant off
Lol yeah, they filled the controller with useless crap but not the only thing that actually help during gameplay, we can shake our head in synchro my dude.
 

Dr Bass

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All of this is stuff is going to be out the window once the new games start actually hitting. No one in a one, two years, or even 3 months is going to say something like "I sure do want that new great looking game on PS5, but they won't allow me to use my PS4 controller as well, so, no can do!"

It's a bunch of posturing and, I think in Linus' case, just trying to find subject matter for videos.

Again, more things that just don't matter.
 

Fbh

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I agree that DS4 not being compatible with Ps5 games is bullshit. And it's definitely a bit of a hidden cost not everyone talks about.
But at least for me it's not a big enough deal to be a "game changer". I don't own any Xbox controller either so it's not like I'd be spending less on controllers with a Series X.
 

Dolomite

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The DualSense actually being a new controller with new features and interesting tech is a game changer but you do you Linus....
Yeah Sony should continue to innovate. That also doesn't mean than Sony should make a controller that is otherwise completely compatible, obsolete.
 

Redlancet

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It's a bit concerning that some of you are okay with your old controllers becoming obsolete. The DualSense still has pretty much the same button layout as the DualShock. Adaptive triggers and fancy vibration are not game changing features, they're gimmicks just like the touchpad and the gyroscope. There's really only 1 reason that you cannot use the DS4 on the PS5 and that is so $ony can sell you new controllers.
im pretty sure you werent concernced when 360 pads wont worked with the one
 

GHG

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Disagree, at least in theory, because I'd be stunned if you couldn't turn all this stuff off. Triggers that get harder to press and games that require you to lift the controller to your face to blow in it are really bad for accessibility. Especially in 2020 where we're seeing more and more of it implemented into video games, and that's a hard thing to argue against. And if there's options to disable it, then Sony is already collecting the data on who does, guaranteed.



The share button is a super weird example considering how many people have never touched the thing, and never will. It's totally superfluous. I think a better example would have been the giant touch pad on the Dualshock 4 - not only is there the touch aspect, it actually registers where you're pressing the button, so it works as a whole new set of inputs. That's the exact reason why I didn't have this same problem with the PS3 > PS4 transition, it would be impossible to play a massive amount of PS4 games without devs specifically coding backwards compatibility with controllers. That I can get behind.

I think the problem many people in this thread are having is distinguishing between feedback and input. If I want to play Sackboy's Big Adventure co-op with my partner, I shouldn't be forced to pay $70 for a new controller that's functionally identical just so that she can "experience the innovation that is HD rumble", when I have two perfectly fine DS4s I already gave Sony money for. It's bullshit. Where I understand it is when there's new inputs involved, i.e. the mic array. My personal issue right now is that these "new" inputs are probably going to be totally optional given the accessibility thing I mentioned above. It's not a big new button in the middle of the pad like the DS4 had. If it was, no-one would realistically be having this discussion, or at least, they shouldn't.

It's the same as game exclusivity. I know why a business chooses to do it, that doesn't mean I have to like it. It's so weird to me that there's so many people (not you) in this thread that want to blindly throw money at Sony at, and are shilling for, features they haven't even tried yet. They might hate the adaptive triggers in November for all they know. Them repeating the words "innovating" and "pushing forward" just makes me think they work for marketing departments.
The share button is widely used, we live in a social media obsessed world.



Do you think Microsoft would have bothered to get it implemented if it wasn't used? Ironically it's the touch pad features (not the button itself, that replaced the option button) that are not consistently used.

Using accessibility as a crutch in this discussion is a strange one. The resistance features can be reduced in their intensity or turned off. In the case where a gamer can't use a controller at all then there are alternative paths that don't involve the normal controller so that they can take to still experience games. I know people don't like to hear it but those people are in the minority and are not considered when business are making core decisions.
 
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Entroyp

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Man, I used to love Linus but these days I can’t watch him after he humiliated himself in the name of fanboyism.
 

LeftThumbstick

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Ah, I understand.

'Fuck the environment, I've got an Xbox', I think it's a good slogan. /JK

Take it easy, if you like batteries, that's fine.
Because building a controller that MUST be dismantled to take the battery out is a much better option for recycling and re-use of plastic. /s

It's nothing to do with "liking" batteries either, it's just about having the choice, it's cheaper and coincidentally , better for the environment than a built in because you can actually seperate them and recycle them easier. Also, there are various places all over like grocery stores who have battery recycling points...

That said, to get back on point, there is absolutely nothing to stop the PS4 controllers working on a PS5. If you're having to buy a whole new controller then it's due to specialized bullshit added in and bad forward planning mixed in with a little "fuck you buy again" to your customers.

If you're for that, then that's also fine.
 

ethomaz

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The share button is a super weird example considering how many people have never touched the thing
Share button is heavy used by gamers... I used it countless times and I know I'm in the low usage statistics side.

That is exactly why Xbox have to put the same button on new controller.
 
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mckmas8808

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They're only disliking it because it is Microsoft. If Sony were the ones letting you use old controllers, they would receive a standing ovation.
How many people "actually" dislike MS' approach here? Isn't it more about people disliking Sony's approach?
 
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DeepEnigma

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Share button is heavy used by gamers.

That is exactly why Xbox have to put the same button on new controller.
I use it daily. Some funny ass shit constantly happens playing RDO with my buddies now that they added the full single player ragdoll physics to it as well. I had to lower my auto-record to 15 minutes because I am using it constantly and taking up HDD space before I trim and upload the videos.
 
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Neofire

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It's odd how some people have just "bought" into Xbox's narrative that generations shouldn't matter anymore.
This exactly, seem like anything and everything MS does, that previously certain people would have been like "fuck no" to, have finished the entire cup of Kool aid MS has served up to them.
 
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ethomaz

is mad becasue DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
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I use it daily. Some funny ass shit constantly happens playing RDO with my buddies now that they added the full single player ragdoll physics to it as well. I had to lower my auto-record to 15 minutes because I am using it constantly and taking up HDD space before I trim and upload the videos.
I used everytime something weird happens or I need to share some screen or video on GAF.
About the HDD I understand... I have to delete old pics and videos all the time.
 
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trikster40

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You can use the DS4 on the PS5...for PS4 games. It’s not like it’s “locking” out last gen. Give me a break.

Every generation, Sony has improved on the controller design. SIXAXIS may be the exception but it did have some improvements over DS2.